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Re: true self

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  • dick.richardson@rocketmail.com
    [ I dont mean to sound like a Dick in being dogmatic and opinionated. ] You seem to be intent on never giving up being a prize retrograde hedonistic shit
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 27, 2010
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      [ "I dont mean to sound like a Dick in being dogmatic and opinionated."
      ]

      You seem to be intent on never giving up being a prize retrograde
      hedonistic shit shooting egocentric specimen until you are dead, do you.
      Go back to your church lad for ker-riced sake. That would be groovy man.
      You talk about dogmatism and opinionated yet you have not got a fucking
      clue what you are talking about or what they even mean. A tells B that
      he and his wife had three children. B tells A that in his opinion A and
      his wife didn't have any children and that his opinion is as good as
      A's opinion. B is you. A was not expressing an opinion he was
      stating dogmatically that he and his wife had had three children. What
      the hell is wrong with being dogmatic and telling is as it is and
      sticking to ones guns for ker-riced sake? As for opinions about things
      then they are irrelevant, you like coffee he likes tea, so bloody what?
      Some people write and talk about phenomena as is found to be. Others
      just spend their lives doing nothing but expressing their bloody
      opinions. Like you do. That is because they have never learned anything
      yet. They have been too busy talking and reading books and become
      brainwashed so that nothing can get in. You DON'T learn from books.
      Groovy man. That is hearsay NOT KNOWING. You don't even know the
      difference yet do you. That is not groovy man. Also, you have no idea at
      all what a true SELF is. Dick head !




      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:

      I dont mean to sound like a Dick in being dogmatic and opinionated.

      Tom




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mary
      Tom, My point is about role-playing, the private real vs. the fictive front. Zizek s examples were opposed because in one case the polite man was a role, but
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 27, 2010
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        Tom,

        My point is about role-playing, the private real vs. the fictive front. Zizek's examples were opposed because in one case the polite man was a role, but the brutal businessman was also role. He also mentions the possibility that roles are adopted to stave off "banal normality." I fear that too many role players dominate public life, especially those who actually feel powerless or bored and who enact their personal fantasies on the innocent. Children are not simply blank slates or property upon which to exercise our shadow selves and control. They are us in the sense that we were once innocent of such power. A society should be judged by how it treats its children. Child abuse, molestation, starvation, neglect are symptoms of a greater systemic violence, one which chooses not to see or believe what's before its eyes. If individuals feel powerless to leave or change their situations, they become divided against themselves. Existentialism offers neither a recipe for integration of evil with good, nor a utopian vision. It dignifies the absurdity of human authenticity. The habit of loving the monstrous neighbor needs to be broken, and I don't think the New Testament overturns the Old in this regard.

        Mary

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Mary
        >
        > I agree with you that such a transparent society is an ideal. The conflict between the ideal and the historical was the concept behind the old and the new testament, as well as much art etc. A Tom Petty song had the line"I woke inbetween the memory and the dream." Historically, there has been a slave morality imposed on the masses by the generally decadent aristocracy, and a master morality for the elites."John Lennon's "Working Class Hero" is reference to these realities. I believe written language, history, slave moralities, and militarism as an ongoing occupation all began around the same time. The mythological reference to the Garden of Eden, I believe is a reference to a pre theist pagan world, where people were not ashamed to be naked.I would say about both the men in the Zizek example, that both need to integrate their aggressive side with their nurturing side as opposed to necesarily assuming one is at heart totally violent and the other totally giving. In Christmas Carrol, Scrooge does this. He continues as a business man, but now has integrated the repressed loving side of his nature. Warren Buffett, George Soros, Ted Turner a number of bilionaire philantrophists appear to have done so.
        >
        > These are just my thoughts on this matter, and I dont mean to sound like a Dick in being dogmatic and opinionated.
        >
        >
        > Peace and best wishes
        > Tom
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Mary
        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 9:04 AM
        > Subject: [existlist] true self
        >
        >
        >
        > Tom,
        >
        > Rather than instances of pagan vs. Christian, or even basic hypocrisy, what we are dealing with primarily is a matter of authenticity, that elusive existentialist concept. Who is the "real" priest or pedophile? In the section preceding the one I previously offered about "fetishistic disavowal," Zizek very briefly explains Lacan's concept of the "barred self," the empty container of a person which holds the knot of the triadic self: imaginary, symbolic, and real. He gives two opposed examples of men who might actualize their subjectivity by unmasking their real selves. One is supposedly a decent family man who visits violent sexual fantasy websites and the other a ruthless business man who is privately kind and gentle. If the former begins to act out his fantasies in his daily life, he is unmasking his true self. If the latter becomes the gentle man, he is unmasking his true self. Zizek treats "self" both in terms of the fictions we believe about ourselves and the fictions we project onto institutions in order to idealize them. I find this psychoanalytical approach very existentialist.
        >
        > Mary
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • tom
        Dickhead Screw u dickhead, and I think I speak for everybody here. You are as annoying as a house fly.You have promised to leave dozens of times. Your promises
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 28, 2010
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          Dickhead

          Screw u dickhead, and I think I speak for everybody here. You are as annoying as a house fly.You have promised to leave dozens of times. Your promises are as solid as a 3 year old's.


          Tom
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: dick.richardson@...
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 11:01 AM
          Subject: [existlist] Re: true self




          [ "I dont mean to sound like a Dick in being dogmatic and opinionated."
          ]

          You seem to be intent on never giving up being a prize retrograde
          hedonistic shit shooting egocentric specimen until you are dead, do you.
          Go back to your church lad for ker-riced sake. That would be groovy man.
          You talk about dogmatism and opinionated yet you have not got a fucking
          clue what you are talking about or what they even mean. A tells B that
          he and his wife had three children. B tells A that in his opinion A and
          his wife didn't have any children and that his opinion is as good as
          A's opinion. B is you. A was not expressing an opinion he was
          stating dogmatically that he and his wife had had three children. What
          the hell is wrong with being dogmatic and telling is as it is and
          sticking to ones guns for ker-riced sake? As for opinions about things
          then they are irrelevant, you like coffee he likes tea, so bloody what?
          Some people write and talk about phenomena as is found to be. Others
          just spend their lives doing nothing but expressing their bloody
          opinions. Like you do. That is because they have never learned anything
          yet. They have been too busy talking and reading books and become
          brainwashed so that nothing can get in. You DON'T learn from books.
          Groovy man. That is hearsay NOT KNOWING. You don't even know the
          difference yet do you. That is not groovy man. Also, you have no idea at
          all what a true SELF is. Dick head !

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:

          I dont mean to sound like a Dick in being dogmatic and opinionated.

          Tom

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mary
          Tom, In Camus novel The Fall he depicts, through his character Clamence, a different fall from innocence, that of an adult who experiences a labyrinthine
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 28, 2010
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            Tom,

            In Camus' novel "The Fall" he depicts, through his character Clamence, a different fall from "innocence," that of an adult who experiences a labyrinthine life of authentic shame due to an act of indifference and cowardice. Becoming unmasked by life's vicissitudes can be the worst and best thing that ever happens to us. The existential import of the Garden myth for me is that we have to judge good and evil, when often they appear to be the same, with no Lawgiver in sight or unambiguously inside. To become a judge-penitent like Clamence is closer to our modern experience. Nakedness, once good, becomes shame and evil. Virtue can become a vice. Clamence once believed wonderful things about himself and his experiences until his own fall. Just think of all that we ignore and excuse, because we believe in some greater good, which in many instances is simply our self-concern. This is the absurdity of knowing good and evil, of recognizing our weakness but naming it something seemingly nobler¬ógrace, clemency.

            Somewhat ironically, the incident which signals the fall of the novel's main character was an acknowledgment by Camus of his personal failure in his marriage. He was never masked about his infidelities, remaining authentic in this regard until his death, but his authenticity was a source of misery for his wife. She seemed unable to hate or forgive, a kind of bad faith, in itself.

            Mary

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Mary
            >
            > This is one of my poems depicted the movement from authentic, unmasked life to the world that has generally existed.
            >
            > GARDEN OF EDEN
            >
            >
            > Adam and Eve were naked pagans in the Garden of Eden until they got uptight, God fearing, and fallen about what kind of fruit they had eaten.
            >
            >
            > www.thecoolcat.net
            >
            > Peace
            > Tom
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Mary
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 9:04 AM
            > Subject: [existlist] true self
            >
            >
            >
            > Tom,
            >
            > Rather than instances of pagan vs. Christian, or even basic hypocrisy, what we are dealing with primarily is a matter of authenticity, that elusive existentialist concept. Who is the "real" priest or pedophile? In the section preceding the one I previously offered about "fetishistic disavowal," Zizek very briefly explains Lacan's concept of the "barred self," the empty container of a person which holds the knot of the triadic self: imaginary, symbolic, and real. He gives two opposed examples of men who might actualize their subjectivity by unmasking their real selves. One is supposedly a decent family man who visits violent sexual fantasy websites and the other a ruthless business man who is privately kind and gentle. If the former begins to act out his fantasies in his daily life, he is unmasking his true self. If the latter becomes the gentle man, he is unmasking his true self. Zizek treats "self" both in terms of the fictions we believe about ourselves and the fictions we project onto institutions in order to idealize them. I find this psychoanalytical approach very existentialist.
            >
            > Mary
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • dick.richardson@rocketmail.com
            You brought be back again kiddo. You never learn. (and which is obvious anyway) Always talking about what you do not KNOW, as usual. Ahh there tut tut, are
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 28, 2010
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              You brought be back again kiddo. You never learn. (and which is
              obvious anyway) Always talking about what you do not KNOW, as usual.
              Ahh there tut tut, are you getting crabbity. And you said that you never
              read my emails; big fibber. Go back to your pew on the benches of the
              brainwashed devils pulpit brigade where you belong. PHHT:>!


              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dickhead
              >
              > Screw u dickhead, and I think I speak for everybody here. You are as
              annoying as a house fly.You have promised to leave dozens of times. Your
              promises are as solid as a 3 year old's.
              >
              >
              > Tom




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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