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Re: Whether reasons have causes (was: The administrations war)

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  • shadowed_statue
    Mary, I have been wondering whether I was right to say that mental reality is physical rather than physiological. Plenty to digest at present. The cart and
    Message 1 of 55 , Aug 2 5:23 PM
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      Mary,

      I have been wondering whether I was right to say that mental reality is physical rather than physiological. Plenty to digest at present. The cart and horse image is intriguing. I think I might prefer it if there were a philosophic cart and horse, and a scientific cart and horse, and their owners have a good conversation once the nags are comfortably in the stable for the night. But I am in quizzical mode, nothing more. Thought is proving elusive. What might I mean, by introducing the image of ownership, into the horse and cart analogy? That there is something utterly beyond our understanding about what we are, whereas specific disciplines do allow of good understanding, within given parameters. I am always wanting to allow for everything that is missed out. And the beauty of the cart and horse is that there is, one hopes, a human who cares for the horse and appreciates the uses of the cart. Tangled in metaphor, will see if any more sense can be had...

      Louise

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
      >
      > Louise,
      >
      > These particular words below are inspirating. The spoken and written word are physical, and though neuro-physicists reduce mental reality to the substrate, they can't account for mental content, unless someone under vivisection relays what they experience. And I think in those cases, the first person accounts are more sensory and memory triggers. I think it was Ryle who said there's no ghost in the machine, just different types of activity in the brain, Unless scientists can produce the detail of a thought, I'd have to agree that mental reality is not physical. We've had some wonderful softening of rigid anti-spiritual stances here lately, so it would be edifying to enter this once verboten territory. The cart and horse (science and philosophy) keep switching. Richard Dawkins is not a philosopher and would have science be the horse, but some of us know better :)
      >
      > Mary
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shadowed_statue" <hecubatoher@> wrote:
      >
      > That reason has its own lawfulness is a matter of huge importance to our species. If that assertion is to be challenged, the argument would be conducted on the territory where there is disagreement, not on the shared territory, concerning the physical nature of mental reality. Because mental reality has another aspect which is not physical. In that domain philosophy may claim to hold sway, in matters relating to truth. Well, that is the best I can state my present understanding.
      >
    • Mary
      Tom, Bohm actually agreed with Einstein that the Copenhagen Interpretation was incomplete. For a simple explanation, which also points to Bohm s relationships
      Message 55 of 55 , Aug 10 10:20 AM
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        Tom, Bohm actually agreed with Einstein that the Copenhagen Interpretation was incomplete.
        For a simple explanation, which also points to Bohm's relationships with Einstein and Murray Gell-Mann, you might google and read: Dialectical Materialism and the Construction of a New Quantum theory: David Joseph Bohm by Christian Forstner. Bohn's pilot wave theory dismisses the wave function as a mathematical entity and restores an objective universe wherein incomplete knowledge of the observer doesn't affect the location or momentum of an electron. The article also touches on something you mention from time to time, causality vs. chance. Bohm says both exist as complementary opposites. Mary



        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:

        What really matters for me is . the more active role of the observer in quantum physics . According to quantum physics the observer has indeed a new relation to
        the physical events around him in comparison with the classical observer, who is merely a spectator.
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