Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

extopical tutorial

Expand Messages
  • William
    While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when some mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 30, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when some mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more important event in the world of letters has taken place ,JD Sallinger died. I will let some scholar fill in the ties between JD and the writers workshop. I spent a year with a workshop professor and it makes this mickey mouse game just a turkey shoot.
      I read "Catcher in the Rye' very early on. I do not remember the story line,I remember it as an attitude changer. Before the book I was angry but thought I was wrong, after the book I began to see my own perspective in a better light. That was what the workshop demanded. Put your ideas out there and take the blows. There are all kinds of arm chair quarterbacks out there who sit on their spotless thrones and cherry pick as an ego boost. Like Obama says if you want to keep your numbers up,do nothing. Thinking,it is about thinking ,not copying others work. Sallanger and Vonnigut wrote in that slashing style which caused emotional growth. They could make you detest yourself for being so duped by the staid mediocracy of accepted situations.
      Now I think TC has accused Mary of being Louise. Or Louise being Mary. Where did he get that and how is such a rumor resolved? I know Mary likes Camus and Louise hates the French existentialists. The straw man has been a literary device for a long time. People do it because they can. Some ideas may be so dangerous that a straw man cover becomes the only option. I am sure the numb nuts that memorise lists can give us numerous examples of such cover. I will take a covered idea before I can respect a lifting. Lifting an entire persona is an artistic achievement. This title,which I think I authored seems most apt but then again we must suspect anything that might pose change. Bill
    • Mary
      Bill, I m flattered that anyone would think I am Louise, because her erudition is exemplary and her integrity fearsome. I recently admitted via a member
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 30, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Bill, I'm flattered that anyone would think I am Louise, because her erudition is exemplary and her integrity fearsome. I recently admitted via a member profile "memo" that I've had several pseudonyms over nearly seven years, I have never talked to myself here, at least not until recently which prompted the confession. I don't do guile very well. Trinidad is a persona but not mine. I am only Mary, playing with ideas, keeping the absurd in its place.

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
        >
        > While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when some mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more important event in the world of letters has taken place ,JD Sallinger died. I will let some scholar fill in the ties between JD and the writers workshop. I spent a year with a workshop professor and it makes this mickey mouse game just a turkey shoot.
        > I read "Catcher in the Rye' very early on. I do not remember the story line,I remember it as an attitude changer. Before the book I was angry but thought I was wrong, after the book I began to see my own perspective in a better light. That was what the workshop demanded. Put your ideas out there and take the blows. There are all kinds of arm chair quarterbacks out there who sit on their spotless thrones and cherry pick as an ego boost. Like Obama says if you want to keep your numbers up,do nothing. Thinking,it is about thinking ,not copying others work. Sallanger and Vonnigut wrote in that slashing style which caused emotional growth. They could make you detest yourself for being so duped by the staid mediocracy of accepted situations.
        > Now I think TC has accused Mary of being Louise. Or Louise being Mary. Where did he get that and how is such a rumor resolved? I know Mary likes Camus and Louise hates the French existentialists. The straw man has been a literary device for a long time. People do it because they can. Some ideas may be so dangerous that a straw man cover becomes the only option. I am sure the numb nuts that memorise lists can give us numerous examples of such cover. I will take a covered idea before I can respect a lifting. Lifting an entire persona is an artistic achievement. This title,which I think I authored seems most apt but then again we must suspect anything that might pose change. Bill
        >
      • William
        Mary, it seemed a huge stretch but if I remember the very early Mary she arrived as an artist. TC has been a starving revolutionary on the streets of
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 30, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Mary, it seemed a huge stretch but if I remember the very early Mary she arrived as an artist. TC has been a starving revolutionary on the streets of Chicago.I always smell FBI whan TC or Wil get going about Marx or Castro or any of pink platoon.
          My war was the cold war and the gloved hand was always operating and was usually most illusive. I developed suspicians that were triggered automatically in the presance of seemingly innocuous presentations.I hope they take it off line as they run risks perhaps for others when they take that tac. It seems both have been burned before but neither may be who they present. Cyber uncertainty rages on. Bill

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bill, I'm flattered that anyone would think I am Louise, because her erudition is exemplary and her integrity fearsome. I recently admitted via a member profile "memo" that I've had several pseudonyms over nearly seven years, I have never talked to myself here, at least not until recently which prompted the confession. I don't do guile very well. Trinidad is a persona but not mine. I am only Mary, playing with ideas, keeping the absurd in its place.
          >
          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
          > >
          > > While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when some mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more important event in the world of letters has taken place ,JD Sallinger died. I will let some scholar fill in the ties between JD and the writers workshop. I spent a year with a workshop professor and it makes this mickey mouse game just a turkey shoot.
          > > I read "Catcher in the Rye' very early on. I do not remember the story line,I remember it as an attitude changer. Before the book I was angry but thought I was wrong, after the book I began to see my own perspective in a better light. That was what the workshop demanded. Put your ideas out there and take the blows. There are all kinds of arm chair quarterbacks out there who sit on their spotless thrones and cherry pick as an ego boost. Like Obama says if you want to keep your numbers up,do nothing. Thinking,it is about thinking ,not copying others work. Sallanger and Vonnigut wrote in that slashing style which caused emotional growth. They could make you detest yourself for being so duped by the staid mediocracy of accepted situations.
          > > Now I think TC has accused Mary of being Louise. Or Louise being Mary. Where did he get that and how is such a rumor resolved? I know Mary likes Camus and Louise hates the French existentialists. The straw man has been a literary device for a long time. People do it because they can. Some ideas may be so dangerous that a straw man cover becomes the only option. I am sure the numb nuts that memorise lists can give us numerous examples of such cover. I will take a covered idea before I can respect a lifting. Lifting an entire persona is an artistic achievement. This title,which I think I authored seems most apt but then again we must suspect anything that might pose change. Bill
          > >
          >
        • eupraxis@aol.com
          I just want moose and squirrel. Wil aka Boris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 30, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            I just want moose and squirrel.

            Wil aka Boris



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • tc
            Adjust your reading glasses. I never said you were Lou, only that I was unaware after being absent that you had two personnas here. Lou has had several, but
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 30, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Adjust your reading glasses. I never said you were Lou, only that I was unaware after being absent that you had two personnas here. Lou has had several, but you had more than one as well so I became confused. Gee I'm sorry. I would have worded my post differently had I thought the Ramona person was you. If you want to drive nails in I think you should just have at it. I'll use the damn hammer on myself if you prefer.

              Finally you are wrong to be so taken with Aronson's or whatever the hell it is biography of Sartre. Read Cohen. Go against the grain. Nobody screwed up Sartre more than Levy at the end, but maybe you think that's your new calling to do for me? I don't think you get Sartre at all as a matter of fact. He was often entirely a performance artist and he didn't want to be possessed as an icon by other ideas, he wanted to be the icon outside of lesser ideas, the only exception communism. Don't tell me what to do or what I can say or write. Go ahead and judge me, and even punish me, but don't you dare try to infringe on my literary freedom or discredit me in some game of jaded distemper. Don't you dare.

              tc

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
              >
              > Bill, I'm flattered that anyone would think I am Louise, because her erudition is exemplary and her integrity fearsome. I recently admitted via a member profile "memo" that I've had several pseudonyms over nearly seven years, I have never talked to myself here, at least not until recently which prompted the confession. I don't do guile very well. Trinidad is a persona but not mine. I am only Mary, playing with ideas, keeping the absurd in its place.
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
              > >
              > > While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when some mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more important event in the world of letters has taken place ,JD Sallinger died. I will let some scholar fill in the ties between JD and the writers workshop. I spent a year with a workshop professor and it makes this mickey mouse game just a turkey shoot.
              > > I read "Catcher in the Rye' very early on. I do not remember the story line,I remember it as an attitude changer. Before the book I was angry but thought I was wrong, after the book I began to see my own perspective in a better light. That was what the workshop demanded. Put your ideas out there and take the blows. There are all kinds of arm chair quarterbacks out there who sit on their spotless thrones and cherry pick as an ego boost. Like Obama says if you want to keep your numbers up,do nothing. Thinking,it is about thinking ,not copying others work. Sallanger and Vonnigut wrote in that slashing style which caused emotional growth. They could make you detest yourself for being so duped by the staid mediocracy of accepted situations.
              > > Now I think TC has accused Mary of being Louise. Or Louise being Mary. Where did he get that and how is such a rumor resolved? I know Mary likes Camus and Louise hates the French existentialists. The straw man has been a literary device for a long time. People do it because they can. Some ideas may be so dangerous that a straw man cover becomes the only option. I am sure the numb nuts that memorise lists can give us numerous examples of such cover. I will take a covered idea before I can respect a lifting. Lifting an entire persona is an artistic achievement. This title,which I think I authored seems most apt but then again we must suspect anything that might pose change. Bill
              > >
              >
            • fleeting_return
              Bill, It is not at all true, that I hate the French existentialists. There was only a general distrust, quite without hate, of French intellectual thought.
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 6, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Bill,

                It is not at all true, that I hate the French existentialists. There was only a general distrust, quite without hate, of French intellectual thought. My empiricist instincts have not proved strong enough, in the event, to carry me through the storms in recent years, and I begin to learn some new perceptions, from Jean-Paul, especially about the nature of the Other, which I used to suspect was mere philosophical jargon.

                So my prejudices have not turned out as benignly as I thought. There need be adequate understanding and trust, between persons of differing perspectives, for prejudice to remain good-humoured and fruitful. Somehow this truth never found the right expression in my life and writing. I did not succeed in communicating certain elements of my thought, because I failed to understand what was lacking in my perceptions. And yet, for all that, your own imaginative responses to mine as to others' posts bring to my attention interpretations I could not find for myself. Something for which I am thankful. Hoping that your hard-won existential narratives
                are going to re-appear here before too long.

                Louise
                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                >
                > While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when some mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more important event in the world of letters has taken place ,JD Sallinger died. I will let some scholar fill in the ties between JD and the writers workshop. I spent a year with a workshop professor and it makes this mickey mouse game just a turkey shoot.
                > I read "Catcher in the Rye' very early on. I do not remember the story line,I remember it as an attitude changer. Before the book I was angry but thought I was wrong, after the book I began to see my own perspective in a better light. That was what the workshop demanded. Put your ideas out there and take the blows. There are all kinds of arm chair quarterbacks out there who sit on their spotless thrones and cherry pick as an ego boost. Like Obama says if you want to keep your numbers up,do nothing. Thinking,it is about thinking ,not copying others work. Sallanger and Vonnigut wrote in that slashing style which caused emotional growth. They could make you detest yourself for being so duped by the staid mediocracy of accepted situations.
                > Now I think TC has accused Mary of being Louise. Or Louise being Mary. Where did he get that and how is such a rumor resolved? I know Mary likes Camus and Louise hates the French existentialists. The straw man has been a literary device for a long time. People do it because they can. Some ideas may be so dangerous that a straw man cover becomes the only option. I am sure the numb nuts that memorise lists can give us numerous examples of such cover. I will take a covered idea before I can respect a lifting. Lifting an entire persona is an artistic achievement. This title,which I think I authored seems most apt but then again we must suspect anything that might pose change. Bill
                >
              • Herman
                Hi Louise, ... You do not have to be consistent. You do not have to be anything. You question Wil re his position on the murder of the children of the last
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 7, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Louise,

                  On 7 February 2010 08:52, fleeting_return <hecubatoher@...> wrote:
                  > Bill,
                  >
                  > It is not at all true, that I hate the French existentialists.  There was only a general distrust, quite without hate, of French intellectual thought.  My empiricist instincts have not proved strong enough, in the event, to carry me through the storms in recent years, and I begin to learn some new perceptions, from Jean-Paul, especially about the nature of the Other, which I used to suspect was mere philosophical jargon.
                  >
                  > So my prejudices have not turned out as benignly as I thought.  There need be adequate understanding and trust, between persons of differing perspectives, for prejudice to remain good-humoured and fruitful.  Somehow this truth never found the right expression in my life and writing.  I did not succeed in communicating certain elements of my thought, because I failed to understand what was lacking in my perceptions.  And yet, for all that, your own imaginative responses to mine as to others' posts bring to my attention interpretations I could not find for myself.  Something for which I am thankful.  Hoping that your hard-won existential narratives
                  > are going to re-appear here before too long.
                  >

                  You do not have to be consistent.

                  You do not have to be anything.

                  You question Wil re his position on the murder of the children of the
                  last Csar & Csarina.

                  You defend Bill, who would have Tim Leary shot.

                  I cannot glean anything from that, apart from that perhaps personal
                  like and dislike plays a role.

                  Polly
                • fleeting_return
                  ... No, I do not have to be consistent, but I should like to be authentic. ... Yes, I think this was an irrational response, owing to my being upset at Wil s
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 7, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Louise,
                    >
                    > On 7 February 2010 08:52, fleeting_return <hecubatoher@...> wrote:
                    > > Bill,
                    > >
                    > > It is not at all true, that I hate the French existentialists.  There was only a general distrust, quite without hate, of French intellectual thought.  My empiricist instincts have not proved strong enough, in the event, to carry me through the storms in recent years, and I begin to learn some new perceptions, from Jean-Paul, especially about the nature of the Other, which I used to suspect was mere philosophical jargon.
                    > >
                    > > So my prejudices have not turned out as benignly as I thought.  There need be adequate understanding and trust, between persons of differing perspectives, for prejudice to remain good-humoured and fruitful.  Somehow this truth never found the right expression in my life and writing.  I did not succeed in communicating certain elements of my thought, because I failed to understand what was lacking in my perceptions.  And yet, for all that, your own imaginative responses to mine as to others' posts bring to my attention interpretations I could not find for myself.  Something for which I am thankful.  Hoping that your hard-won existential narratives
                    > > are going to re-appear here before too long.
                    > >
                    >
                    > You do not have to be consistent.

                    No, I do not have to be consistent, but I should like to be authentic.

                    >
                    > You do not have to be anything.
                    >
                    > You question Wil re his position on the murder of the children of
                    > the last Csar & Csarina.

                    Yes, I think this was an irrational response, owing to my being upset at Wil's charge against Bill that he was indulging homicidal fantasies. When I was arguing, some time ago, for peaceable democratic process, I was much upset by Wil's jokes and bloody fantasies dredged from the French Revolution, and so on. Anyway, none of this seems a philosophic and measured response to conversation here, so I would rather bow out of the conversation.

                    >
                    > You defend Bill, who would have Tim Leary shot.

                    I haven't defended his position about shooting Tim Leary.

                    >
                    > I cannot glean anything from that, apart from that perhaps personal
                    > like and dislike plays a role.

                    No, I don't think in this instance there is any differential. As I say, other irrational factors. Hence an inauthentic response. A painful conclusion to which your feedback, Polly, helps me.

                    >
                    > Polly
                    >
                  • Herman
                    Hi Louise, ... Thanks for your reply, Louise. I would prefer a conversation with you over no conversation with you, anytime. And, like you, I hope Bill becomes
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 7, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Louise,

                      On 8 February 2010 07:41, fleeting_return <hecubatoher@...> wrote:
                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> You do not have to be consistent.
                      >
                      > No, I do not have to be consistent, but I should like to be authentic.
                      >
                      >>
                      >> You do not have to be anything.
                      >>
                      >> You question Wil re his position on the murder of the children of
                      >> the last Csar & Csarina.
                      >
                      > Yes, I think this was an irrational response, owing to my being upset at Wil's charge against Bill that he was indulging homicidal fantasies.  When I was arguing, some time ago, for peaceable democratic process, I was much upset by Wil's jokes and bloody fantasies dredged from the French Revolution, and so on.  Anyway, none of this seems a philosophic and measured response to conversation here, so I would rather bow out of the conversation.
                      >

                      Thanks for your reply, Louise.

                      I would prefer a conversation with you over no conversation with you,
                      anytime. And, like you, I hope Bill becomes an active participant
                      again real soon.

                      Cheers


                      Polly
                    • Mary
                      Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for pseudonyms. Perhaps it s fear of disagreement and conflict. I ve not been able to
                      Message 10 of 17 , Feb 8, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for pseudonyms. Perhaps it's fear of disagreement and conflict. I've not been able to thoroughly determine if understanding others undermines my own thoughts and emotions, or I actually don't have any of my own. How can I be authentic if I keep changing my mind? Mary

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "fleeting_return" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:

                        No, I do not have to be consistent, but I should like to be authentic.
                      • tom
                        Mary, I don t believe that you changing your mind necesarily involves you not being authentic. Here is one of the definitions of authentic I found online :
                        Message 11 of 17 , Feb 8, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Mary,

                          I don't believe that you changing your mind necesarily involves you not being authentic. Here is one of the definitions of authentic I found online : true to one's own personality, spirit, or character.From that framework, your views are authentic expressions of yourself at different times. Several things can be involved in changes of mind. One is the acquisition of new facts or experiences;we move into different roles,and different values within the psche may emerge to become the more dominant. George Soros prides himself on his ability to admit mistakes and apply appropriate correctives. He says that is the key to his financial success. One of his primary ideas is the concept of fallibility, which assumes that our ideas about reality will probablynot match reality 100%, but hopefully we can progressivly move closer both as individuals and society.And as for values, the Bhagavad Gita potrayed the leading character, Arjuna, torn between two loyalties as two armies prepare to fight. The book is the discource Arjuna has with Krishna, his universal self, concerning this.

                          Anyway, changing is usually indicative of growing;whereas views that are unchanged after many years often indicates being stuck.

                          Peace,
                          Tom

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Mary
                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:56 AM
                          Subject: [existlist] Re: extopical tutorial



                          Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for pseudonyms. Perhaps it's fear of disagreement and conflict. I've not been able to thoroughly determine if understanding others undermines my own thoughts and emotions, or I actually don't have any of my own. How can I be authentic if I keep changing my mind? Mary

                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "fleeting_return" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:

                          No, I do not have to be consistent, but I should like to be authentic.





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Herman
                          Hi Mary, Tom and all, ... Like Tom, I see authenticity as a work in progress. My own take on it is that one has become an authentic person when the same core
                          Message 12 of 17 , Feb 8, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Mary, Tom and all,

                            On 9 February 2010 02:56, Mary <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                            > Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for pseudonyms. Perhaps it's fear of disagreement and conflict. I've not been able to thoroughly determine if understanding others undermines my own thoughts and emotions, or I actually don't have any of my own. How can I be authentic if I keep changing my mind?

                            Like Tom, I see authenticity as a work in progress. My own take on it
                            is that one has become an authentic person when the same core values
                            are on display, no matter what situation. This would be in contrast
                            with an opportunistic mindset. I think it comes back to how one sees
                            the boundary between self / other, and whether one believes it is
                            possible to outsmart the system and have or be a value while denying
                            that for others.

                            Reaching authenticity is not easy, I don't know many contemporary
                            examples of authentic people, Gandhi comes to mind, and Mandela. I
                            don't think that being a leader and authentic necessarily go hand in
                            hand, it's just that authentic people are unshakeable in their
                            understanding and resolve. (that doesn't mean that unshakeable people
                            are necessarily authentic, there is that certain unshakeable,
                            unfounded faith in oneself a la George W that lacks all insight into
                            itself). Still, when more than 50% vote for you, that's where things
                            are at. Just like South Africa can replace a Mandela with a Zuma, who
                            has 20 kids, 4 wives, and still finds it necessary to find more women
                            to mount.

                            Polly
                          • eupraxis@aol.com
                            Polly, This would be your own definition of authenticity? It wouldn t be anything like Heidegger s or anything like what Sartre talks about. Wil ... From:
                            Message 13 of 17 , Feb 8, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Polly,

                              This would be your own definition of authenticity? It wouldn't be anything like Heidegger's or anything like what Sartre talks about.

                              Wil


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Herman <hhofmeister@...>
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:21 pm
                              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: extopical tutorial





                              Hi Mary, Tom and all,

                              On 9 February 2010 02:56, Mary <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                              > Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for pseudonyms. Perhaps it's fear of disagreement and conflict. I've not been able to thoroughly determine if understanding others undermines my own thoughts and emotions, or I actually don't have any of my own. How can I be authentic if I keep changing my mind?

                              Like Tom, I see authenticity as a work in progress. My own take on it
                              is that one has become an authentic person when the same core values
                              are on display, no matter what situation. This would be in contrast
                              with an opportunistic mindset. I think it comes back to how one sees
                              the boundary between self / other, and whether one believes it is
                              possible to outsmart the system and have or be a value while denying
                              that for others.

                              Reaching authenticity is not easy, I don't know many contemporary
                              examples of authentic people, Gandhi comes to mind, and Mandela. I
                              don't think that being a leader and authentic necessarily go hand in
                              hand, it's just that authentic people are unshakeable in their
                              understanding and resolve. (that doesn't mean that unshakeable people
                              are necessarily authentic, there is that certain unshakeable,
                              unfounded faith in oneself a la George W that lacks all insight into
                              itself). Still, when more than 50% vote for you, that's where things
                              are at. Just like South Africa can replace a Mandela with a Zuma, who
                              has 20 kids, 4 wives, and still finds it necessary to find more women
                              to mount.

                              Polly








                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Herman
                              Hi Wil, ... I guess mine is an extension of Sartre s version. It recognises that being for others and being for self become identical when one stops lying
                              Message 14 of 17 , Feb 8, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi Wil,

                                On 9 February 2010 09:55, <eupraxis@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >  Polly,
                                >
                                > This would be your own definition of authenticity? It wouldn't be anything like Heidegger's or anything like what Sartre talks about.
                                >
                                >

                                I guess mine is an extension of Sartre's version. It recognises that
                                being for others and being for self become identical when one stops
                                lying about oneself.

                                Polly




                                Wil
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Herman <hhofmeister@...>
                                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:21 pm
                                > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: extopical tutorial
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Mary, Tom and all,
                                >
                                > On 9 February 2010 02:56, Mary <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                                >> Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for pseudonyms. Perhaps it's fear of disagreement and conflict. I've not been able to thoroughly determine if understanding others undermines my own thoughts and emotions, or I actually don't have any of my own. How can I be authentic if I keep changing my mind?
                                >
                                > Like Tom, I see authenticity as a work in progress. My own take on it
                                > is that one has become an authentic person when the same core values
                                > are on display, no matter what situation. This would be in contrast
                                > with an opportunistic mindset. I think it comes back to how one sees
                                > the boundary between self / other, and whether one believes it is
                                > possible to outsmart the system and have or be a value while denying
                                > that for others.
                                >
                                > Reaching authenticity is not easy, I don't know many contemporary
                                > examples of authentic people, Gandhi comes to mind, and Mandela. I
                                > don't think that being a leader and authentic necessarily go hand in
                                > hand, it's just that authentic people are unshakeable in their
                                > understanding and resolve. (that doesn't mean that unshakeable people
                                > are necessarily authentic, there is that certain unshakeable,
                                > unfounded faith in oneself a la George W that lacks all insight into
                                > itself). Still, when more than 50% vote for you, that's where things
                                > are at. Just like South Africa can replace a Mandela with a Zuma, who
                                > has 20 kids, 4 wives, and still finds it necessary to find more women
                                > to mount.
                                >
                                > Polly
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                                >
                                > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Mary
                                louise, Is there a software application available to help open this file? Mary
                                Message 15 of 17 , Mar 1, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  louise,

                                  Is there a software application available to help open this file?

                                  Mary
                                • existlist
                                  Mary, I didn t click that link figuring it was from something bad (phishing) that took control of Louise s email program. h.
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Mar 2, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Mary,
                                    I didn't click that link figuring it was from something bad (phishing) that took control of Louise's email program.

                                    h.

                                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > louise,
                                    >
                                    > Is there a software application available to help open this file?
                                    >
                                    > Mary
                                    >
                                  • Mary
                                    Thanks, h. I keep forgetting the pitfalls of public unmonitored groups. I hope louise still reads here occasionally and discovers the theft. Mary
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Mar 2, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Thanks, h. I keep forgetting the pitfalls of public unmonitored groups.

                                      I hope louise still reads here occasionally and discovers the theft.

                                      Mary

                                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "existlist" <hermitcrab65@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Mary,
                                      > I didn't click that link figuring it was from something bad (phishing) that took control of Louise's email program.
                                      >
                                      > h.
                                      >
                                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > louise,
                                      > >
                                      > > Is there a software application available to help open this file?
                                      > >
                                      > > Mary
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.