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Re: [existlist] Re: Existentialism and dating

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  • openbook02@aol.com
    i didn t realize how dumb that sounded until i sent it, sorry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2001
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      i didn't realize how dumb that sounded until i sent it, sorry



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • nothing@theabsurd.com
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2001
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        <<don't you guys think that people seem more or less attractive once
        you get an idea of their persona.>>

        'Attractive' is vague. I have a distinct feeling that some of us quite
        disticntly separate 'love' from 'carnal desire' and some are more
        talented at meshing the two. Either can prove to be attractive. In one
        example you may have a man feeling attracted to a 'beautiful' woman
        only because he'd like to get her naked -- not marry her -- finding
        her chemically interesting. And another where he might want to live
        with her and do things for her having no idea why -- yet thinking
        she's ugli as sin, often helping her to zip up anything exposed. In a
        third you might have some combination of these.

        Persona or no, there are certain types i can be no more attracted to
        than some waterbuffalo in heat -- no matter how many times I might be
        assured how beautiful and attractive this person is by other sources.
        I find the chemical register for liking and desiring to be quite
        distinct -- and sometimes inexplicably so. I also have the feeling
        that many women (or it seems a situation more likely in women for
        whatever reason) can influence attraction with unified perspective on
        love and desire -- to varying extents. Personally I don't remember a
        situation where someone has grown on me over time...the perception
        seeps in quite quickly...though I can align personal examples of
        'beautiful' and 'ugli' women whom I have found attractive and not so.
        I couldn't distinctly say in all cases what it is that makes the
        attraction. I can't explain it and don't need to appologize for
        it...do I?

        Perhaps Mr. Aiden's chemistry set can explain this. Perhaps there are
        senses that we have which help us tell a kind person from another
        which we can't be completely conscious of. Perhaps there are a variety
        of very subtle things which work together to create a sense somewhere
        in our psyche.

        What it says to me is: women end up having, often, to convince
        themselves that a man is desireable. I would have to spend a lot of
        time convincing myself as well; especially if I thought it meant I'd
        not only have to pamper the lug and be his slave, but like him as
        well. While some have to absorb roles to be comfortable, that is not a
        role I would ever be good at convincing myself of.

        still-capsized-from-a-moment-of-slavery-in-message-5034
        ------------------------
      • openbook02@aol.com
        alright, so like i was saying, the rational one s don t usually have much of a dating drive, because they re usually content with themselves. Besides, why
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 1, 2001
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          alright,
          so like i was saying, the rational one's don't usually have much of a
          dating drive, because they're usually content with themselves. Besides, why
          would they look for someone who looked at women as a tally unless they were
          just looking for sex-- which doesn't really make sense anyway, since most
          women won't orgasm during sex. They can do the job better themselves.
          Companionship like that can come with a vibrator. As flattering as one may
          think it is to be called "cute"... well, personally, it's not. The way some
          people generalize women, or they're view on relationships seems a blatent
          mockery.




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • stuart lu
          dating is different for each sex. the female probably need it because they feel the urge for dependance and a man in their lives who can offer protection and
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 2, 2001
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            dating is different for each sex.

            the female probably need it because they feel the urge
            for dependance and a man in their lives who can offer
            protection and masculinity yet many women despise
            masculinity. most probably their internal urges
            require it in their lives. whether a lot or very
            little
            then there is the possibility that they need men
            simply because they are carnal maniacs. they want sex
            whether it's with a beautiful man or an ugly. whatever
            has a dick

            the male most probably dates because he wants a woman
            for sex. He is not gay so he looks towards the
            opposite sex.
            yet some men do love a woman and will eventually meet
            the one they are supposed to be with.

            actually dating could be very subjective
            hmm....

            __________________________________________________
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          • Jim Aiden
            James, although physical attraction gets a girl through the door it need not last nor is it that important to
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 3, 2001
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              << kelly cannot change her sexiness and charm. >>

              James,

              although physical attraction gets a girl through the door it need not
              last nor is it that important to me aside from the intial meeting.
              What it comes down to is change. We will grow old, creaky and ugly...
              and that's if we're lucky. There are those that accept and embrace
              that aspect of life and those that skirt it.

              I realize in a group like this, love is probably somewhere between
              the tooth fairy and G~d..... that love is simply a selfish desire. I
              mostly believe that but I would qualify it in that I believe the
              boundry of self is extended to the other when one is in love. For me
              that takes the black bite oout of such words.

              I cannot say I love Kelly more of an infatuation.I don't know her
              well enough to say that. I don't believe in love at first sight....
              only attraction. You have to know the essence of someone to be able
              to say such things and obviously there are issues between us. More
              importantly love needs to be demonstrated through action... something
              I have not done.

              As for the psychological assessment below, interesting. I've heard
              some of the perspectives before (In relation to why we love) but
              aside from perhaps some desperation to find a 'suitable'
              (not 'worthy' as BookDoc asserts) mate I can't find too much parallel
              to my life.

              To me, sex without love is akin to junk food. Tastes good but
              empty of enduring nutritional value. If one's desire is sex alone,
              then a prostitute is likely the best course. It is a much more
              effective way of having sex. You pick exactly who you want, when you
              want and there is no emotional aftermath and maintenance. Perhaps a
              male sense of pride (i.e. I don't have to pay for sex) or some moral
              perspective prevents this in men with a high sexualy motivation. I
              find this far more ethical than leading a woman into believing a
              relationship is imminant for the sake of intercourse. How barbaric of
              me eh?

              As for myself.... I want the proverbial hockey team to my fulfill
              my genetic destiny and play out my years supporting my family.
              Perhaps I am selfish or boring, but that is what I desire more than
              anything. In fact, I would go so far as to say that is my only true
              desire aside from survival. I have things... I have friends... a good
              job.... I have travelled a great deal of the world.... I am
              relatively educated.... what is left for me? The animal in me...
              no.... the human in me requires that I complete my duties here. I
              feel no guilt or weakness in it, I embrace it.

              And as for Kelly.... I though I would see her on Saturday and she
              didn't even call. So either she's lost interest or she's still angry
              with me for putting her off. Whatever the case, I have always been
              straightforward with her and if it makes her unhappy anything between
              us is moot. I left some voicemail for her letting her know despite
              the disagreements we have that I do feel something for her and that
              if she wants to talk... I'll listen (for once).

              Based on history there is a good chance she's going to call. I
              think she just doesn't want to appear that she cares. I might be
              wrong but I'll post if it happens. It might be a while (4 weeks the
              last time).

              In the meantime, Heather is waiting for me.... pigtailed blonde,
              blue eyes, fake breasts, former stripper. Not so much for sex but,
              believe it or not, for cuddling and being pampered. I know.... I am
              such a wuss.

              This other girl says and does the right things. I don't judge her
              as a 'whore' as all my friends do because of what she did for a
              living. Although I can't yet find chemistry she has always been
              upfront with me. I may still occasionally think about Kelly but the
              sea has many 'clams'...... and I hope to grow to love one of them
              someday and maybe one will love my sorry ass.

              Like anything worthwhile in life, compatibility is not easy to
              find, but I believe the dividends are well worth the wait. Honestly I
              don't know why people settle for anything less in life.

              J.Aiden

              ------------------------------------------------




              --- In existlist@y..., "james tan" <tyjfk@h...> wrote:
              >
              > where i am coming from is a bit different from what you want. one
              of my
              > life's aim is to make love with girls from all the races of the
              world; so
              > far, about one fifth of the world is 'conquered'. my aim is simple,
              and
              > maybe shallow (almost beastly, to some). what you want, it seems,
              is a life
              > partner. someone whom you can be authentic with, not just to her,
              but to
              > yourself while being with her. in that case, the issue of your
              personal
              > values, self, outlook is a significant one as it relates to hers;
              you wanted
              > what i call 'congruency'. this is indeed important in a
              relationship if your
              > life aim is to be happy with the same person who 'cares whether you
              still
              > exist the next friday'. if indeed the relationship were to become
              long term.
              > mine is a number game: to make love to as many females as possible;
              i love
              > the variety and the sex (and i don't care if i get std). let me
              just
              > speculate about the other possible dimension of your relationship
              with kelly
              > (for the sake of speculation). your concern of getting too intimate
              with
              > kelly, someone with a slghtly different outlook (hers a
              materialistic
              > outlook?! 2 factors: the survival of the fittest drive her in this
              > direction, a purely evolutionary, instintual motivation; and so-
              called
              > materialistic outlook could be translated into the primal need for
              security,
              > and security is 'seen' in terms of being able to satisfy basic
              needs such as
              > shelther (big house if possible, also serve as symbol of social or
              economic
              > status), food, sex (her preference for athletic body hint on this
              aspect,
              > not just a health and athletic aspect), status, social respect).
              the
              > question of identity, of who you are becomes pertinent in who you
              choose to
              > be your life partner, in a sense a kind of alter ego (you would
              want to go
              > with her to all important social functions, and you might be
              socially
              > 'assessed' base on your choice of kind of partner); it would be
              miserable
              > indeed if you 'quarrel' with her every day over difference in
              outlooks, let
              > alone to expect her as your soulmate. being close to another in a
              loving
              > relationship makes one aware that life is precious, but must
              eventually be
              > surrendered; you want to make sure that the person is indeed worthy
              of your
              > life and its surrendering. so the question is never merely a
              physical issue
              > of making love; rather, it is intimately connected to every aspects
              of your
              > life, not least emotional, perhaps even spiritual. you are
              understandably
              > hesistant about kelly. but kelly is hot (i take that to mean sexy),
              and it
              > becomes a stimuli that could not fail to activate your male
              hormones. a
              > human being is not just mind (which explain your love of ideas, but
              to that
              > you can always appeal to eduard), he is body as well (to that,
              maybe kelly
              > is more appropriate than eduard); so kelly pull and push you in
              different
              > direction. on the one hand she blatantly voice her materialist
              outlook (and
              > perhaps scorn at the intellectual) and on the other, she has such
              sexy lips
              > and body, and long and slim legs. oh my god, such paradox in life.
              do i have
              > to make such difficult choice?! this is angst. oh my god. how i
              wish to hold
              > her in my arms, to feel her warm, to touch her softness, to lick
              her long
              > legs. but then, but then, but then, she has such materialist
              outlook?! this
              > is angst, this is a cognitive dissonance, and i being a
              intellectual find it
              > such a torture. i must resolve it somewhat, somehow: either kelly
              change her
              > outlook and expectation, or i change my outlook and expectation,
              but one
              > thing must remain constant: kelly cannot change her sexiness and
              charm.
              > let's see how this could work out: i can't be changing myself, else
              i will
              > not be jim anymore; therefore, kelly must change. but i doubt kelly
              will
              > change, afterall, it is not something as easy as changing your t-
              shirt, i
              > mean we are talking about personality and outlook that take years
              to form.
              > this point to one question: do i really, actually, genuinely love
              kelly in
              > the first place? if there is such a fundamental difference, what
              makes me
              > think at all that i love her? maybe i have not touched a woman for
              a long
              > time since the last breakup? maybe i have not had sex for
              a 'unreasonably'
              > long period of time? although i can always find a pretty chick to
              ~~, but i
              > am jim, i am not just a animal, i have some minimum expectation
              worthy of a
              > respectable human! and i am not just any respectable human, i am
              jim! but
              > whatever it is, i long for a female contact (and actually, this is
              a secret,
              > i am somewhat a bit desperate, afterall, i am mr chemical, and i am
              not just
              > sexually hungry, if i care to admit, but i am emotionally hungry as
              well).
              > but my parents do love me, now or in childhood, and i think i am
              not
              > emotionally deprived??! i used to have girlfriends who simply adore
              me?!!
              > could i have failed to make a distinction between emotional hunger
              for love?
              > sexual hunger for love? but i am jim; in any cases, i shall select
              my mate
              > properly, and not just take what i can get that happen to come
              along my way.
              > let me just look at kelly: does she has personality traits that
              resemble my
              > father or mother, or some significant others in my childhood? why
              do i find
              > her so attractive when she is not the most intelligent or prettiest
              of all?
              > do i feel useless unless i find myself a mate?
              >
              > excuse my rumination.
              >
              > james.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > From: "Jim Aiden" <livewild@h...>
              > Reply-To: existlist@y...
              > To: existlist@y...
              > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialism and dating
              > Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:29:28 -0000
              >
              >
              > James as usual your posts are on the mark with what I'm
              thinking
              > but both Wyatt and landry both have given me a couple of things to
              > think about. Just to clarify... I don't want to be with her just
              > because she's hot. I meet all kinds of woman of various strengths
              and
              > persuasions. There is more to this. I have 'feelings' for her.
              >
              > Landry why I say it's existential in nature is because of the
              > moral and <self> aspect of it. A piece of me is judging her for
              > something another piece of me seems to condone. Granted piece one is
              > not as prominent as piece two... but both are part of me. I must say
              > emotionally I'm leaning on what James is saying because I want it to
              > work between us for the emotional (not so much sexual) reasons. I
              > don't spend Friday nights alone usually, but I'd like to spend it
              > with the same person.... and someone that cares whether I exist or
              > not the next Friday.
              >
              > I don't understand why I should like her anymore than anyone of
              > the other girls I meet. She has this power she has over me.
              > Attractive though she be... I've met more attractive. Intelligent
              > though she appear... I've met more intelligent. What is this spell
              > that draws us so powerfully to a particular individual?
              >
              > Well, I digress.
              >
              > I can't say I know what I'm going to do, but my thanks to those
              > that responded. I'm going to be seeing her this weekend. I'm not
              > going out tonight in the hope I can resolve this in my mind.
              > I'm hoping she'll say something that makes me alter my vision of
              her.
              > Truthfully other than that, I don't really expect a resolution other
              > than perhaps she'll tire of dealing with me. I suspect I need to
              > somewhat respect a woman because if I don't, I would make both her
              > and myself miserable. It's not that I believe I know I have a
              clearer
              > view of life, it's just that some thought process gets triggered
              that
              > just makes me want to smack her in the head. Perhaps I should
              change?
              > Maybe like figuring out whether to purchase a car, I should write
              > down the pros and cons of this particular model and the sacrifices
              > necessary if I chose to purchase (or lease)?
              >
              > Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... emotions. I usual have good control at
              > manipulating them, but sometimes the buggers take a life of their
              own.
              > I guess that's what makes us human. Neither am I complaining... .
              I'm
              > happy to have the problems I do. There are so many people on this
              > planet that have real problems.
              >
              > J.Aiden
              >
              > ---------------------------
              >
              >
              > --- In existlist@y..., landrywc@g... wrote:
              > > Jim,
              > > I must say, when someone says they "are both flattered and
              > repulsed"
              > > about a certain relationship, I would suspect that he/she is
              > > attracted to the physical appearance, but ultimately is not
              > attracted
              > > to the other because, in your case, "her materialistic outlook on
              > > life". I would say this is not so much an existential dilemma
              but a
              > > moment of weakness on your part. You want to sleep with her
              because
              > > she's hot, but you cannot stand her because she is
              materialistic. I
              > > guess it's all up to you, Jim. What are you looking for? Did you
              > say
              > > something about looking for a stable relationship? Anyone can get
              > > laid, and there all kinds of great looking people out there. If
              > > that's what you're looking for, I say "Go for it!" But...it
              sounds
              > to
              > > me like you are looking for something more than this - if that's
              > the
              > > case, my advice to you is forego the sex and look elsewhere for
              > what
              > > you REALLY want. Good luck.
              >
              >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
              http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
            • Jim Aiden
              I m not going to shoot you down for this comment, but it does
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 3, 2001
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                << women are, on the whole, not rational beings, and the ones that
                are are often lesbians- >>

                I'm not going to shoot you down for this comment, but it does seem
                a rather simplistic approach. Rather I thought about it over the
                weekend and in true keeping with my 'beliefs' I approached it as
                a 'what if' truth.

                You see since I seem to believe that our sense of 'a priori' logic
                are the function of our emotions, and they of course a symptom of
                chemical reaction... then what you say almost makes sense. Men and
                women have slightly different chemical activity. What might seem
                logical or important to a man, might not seem so to a woman and vice
                versa.

                Let me go off the road for a second......

                As someone that is into bodybuilding I often shave or wax most of
                my body free of hair. Despite all the easy jokes that surround such a
                supposedly feminine activity, I usually find the opposite sex by far
                prefers a well groomed man.

                I was watching this program on discovery on Sunday about mating
                habits (something that's been on my mind quite a bit the last week).
                One of the creatures they discussed was the Wolf Spider. Apparently
                the females of this species prefer males that have very hair legs.

                So here is my question (or answer?). There is no right or wrong
                logic to whether a female (or male for that matter) is correct. They
                simply are. The male is still somewhat dominate therefore female
                behavior is still deemed irratic. I do not think male behavior is any
                more rational unless one defines rational as young, 20th century,
                caucasion, urban professional male. Hmmm... Why stop even there?
                Let's forget middle class.... dominant social class.

                What I'm trying to say is I certainly don't understand most woman
                but then again I don't understand my own behavior too much. I don't
                view myself as particularily rational to some ideal standard. We each
                are rational to our own inner view of what is logical and our
                experiences. I know of no experts... only cute tricks (like Mensa). I
                do not think philosophical intelligence can be measured until a
                common agreement is found as to what that term encompasses.

                Is it rational for me to wax my chest or even bodybuild for that
                matter? Maybe, if my objective is to appear attractive to certain
                types of females. Is it rational that those thoughts should consume
                space in my mind? Depends who you talk to. The independent moralistic
                types might say it is a sign of a shallow individual. Personally I
                view it as I want to be able to be selective of a partner and
                maintaining an athletic physique makes that job that much easier. I'd
                prefer not to waste the two hours a day and 250 dollars a week in
                food on such trivial activity, but that seems the way of things.
                Having a suitable mate seems important enough to me. (Just as an
                aside... now that I've been doing it a while, I've discovered other
                maginal benefits like feeling healthy :)

                In the end, I can find no rationalism in wanting to be desirable.
                Or wanting to procreate. Or wanting anything for that matter. Desire
                is a function of my body (and mind) crying out to perform biological
                activity I was programmed to do. I imagine so that I may eventual
                succeed in procreation or at the very least help my society prosper.
                (Mind you the perception and reality are two different things.)

                We are still just somewhat evolved monkeys doing tricks so we can
                have our banana.

                Ouuu Ouuu Aaa Aaa

                J.Aiden


                ----------------------

                --- In existlist@y..., awrybrewer@a... wrote:
                > Well, my friend it is time to step up to the essence building
                plate. You
                > know that choice is key. So deliberate and choose. If you
                compromise yourself
                > by being with her then welcome to the world of bad faith, not that
                that is a
                > bad thing all the time, but in human relation it could be a
                problem. I am
                > going to make an offensive and gross generalization, so if you wish
                not to be
                > offended send your inner child out of the room.
                > --women are, on the whole, not rational beings, and the ones that
                are are
                > often lesbians-
                > So do not try to understand her. Accept or reject. It maybe in
                time you
                > allow for the things that irk you about her, though I believe, that
                comes as
                > the beginning of love.
                >
                > --Mark
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • greg goodwin
                Jim, Sorry about the long wait for a response but my Grandmother died sunday so I have been a bit preempted as to my regular activities. When you find this
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
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                  Jim,
                  Sorry about the long wait for a response but my
                  Grandmother died sunday so I have been a bit preempted
                  as to my regular activities.
                  When you find this woman, see if she a twin sister
                  for me.
                  Greg
                  --- Jim Aiden <livewild@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Greg,
                  >
                  > you seem to have all the bases covered. Any woman
                  > left over?
                  >
                  > I prefer highly intelligent, motivated, saintly
                  > girls, with a
                  > great set of legs, a beautiful face, and a
                  > dedication to orally
                  > pleasuring me before and after cooking me dinner.
                  > Not asking much eh?
                  >
                  > Actually I'd 'settle' for an all right looking
                  > girl (if I can
                  > orgasm once or twice a week, it's enough) but
                  > someone that loves me
                  > to death, will stay devoted, and someone that is
                  > happy just being
                  > with and taking care of me. I guess I should add...
                  > I have to respect
                  > her.
                  >
                  > And I don't want someone that is unhappy because
                  > in the end I'll
                  > end up on rack right alongside them. Hard to find
                  > happy people these
                  > days though... especially woman. The media has
                  > created a nightmare of
                  > perfection for them to aspire to. Unfortunately, I
                  > noticed men seem
                  > to be going in the same direction. Luckily, like
                  > yourself, I am
                  > already an ideal specimen for a breeding male.....
                  > yeah... really...I
                  > think I'm falling for you... you are so beautiful...
                  > I love you so
                  > much.... sorry honey....what do you mean I'm
                  > judgmental... of course
                  > I care about you...you make no sense....keep away
                  > from me....I'm
                  > going to call the cops if you don't stop hounding
                  > me...
                  >
                  > Your right sometimes.... Waa-tish. Who's your
                  > daddy? Say it.....
                  > is much easier to handle.
                  >
                  > J.Aiden
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@y..., greg goodwin
                  > <ggoodwin56@y...> wrote:
                  > > Jim,
                  > > I TRY to stay away from women that make judgments
                  > > based upon someone's pocketbook. I also do not
                  > care
                  > > for 'slutty' women, anyone can 'have' them, but I
                  > did
                  > > use "try" and "do not care for" but as
                  > hypocritical as
                  > > it is I have shared many a wonderful encounter
                  > with
                  > > women that fit comfortably into these types.
                  > > I really like the petite, girl next door type
                  > > although the girls next door nowadays seem to go
                  > into
                  > > one of the afore mentioned catagories.
                  > > I REALLY do like walks in the woods, a stroll
                  > down
                  > > the beach, a bar-b-que on the weekends with
                  > friends
                  > > and would like to find a woman that would be
                  > > comfortable just being with me as I am comfortable
                  > > being with her. Doesn't sound like much and
                  > indeed,
                  > > many seem to fill the bill, for a while then
                  > either I
                  > > or they change and life nosedives.
                  > > I dated a girl a little while ago and whenever we
                  > > were in the car was steadily holding my hand, if
                  > in my
                  > > truck our thighs weresolidly together. When we got
                  > out
                  > > of the vehicle she waited to see if I was going
                  > front
                  > > or rear and then sped to clinch my arm into both
                  > of
                  > > hers. Quite nice, really made me feel quite
                  > 'studly';
                  > > for a while then it was old very quickly,
                  > eventually a
                  > > non-mutual split occurred.
                  > > Your sentiments on 'bad' girls is what we all
                  > live
                  > > for, though not with, at least not for very long
                  > at a
                  > > time; but it is nice knowing you can always go
                  > back
                  > > for more when YOU get ready.
                  > > Girls who seem to rave on and on about things
                  > they
                  > > find important, then ask whats wrong baby, tell
                  > mama
                  > > and then when you try to speak she abruptly
                  > changes
                  > > the subject; things on your mind are not important
                  > to
                  > > her definitely are ones I leave alone.
                  > > Women that carry on about old relationships (How
                  > > great/bad someone was)leaves me quite cold.
                  > > I cannot stop without going into the women that
                  > are
                  > > so impressed with thenselves that you should be
                  > > grateful they will be seen with you (to top this
                  > off
                  > > these are usually the most average looking women,
                  > go
                  > > figure!)
                  > > Greg
                  > > --- Jim Aiden <livewild@h...> wrote:
                  > > > << but I know which type I no longer have time
                  > for>
                  > > >
                  > > > Greg,
                  > > >
                  > > > This is probably part of my problem Greg. I
                  > > > understand what you
                  > > > mean by type but I TRY (keyword) not to create
                  > > > stereotypes. My mind
                  > > > says 'types' are just conditioning. There are
                  > > > simply people that
                  > > > have tendencies that is all. Conditioning if the
                  > > > will is present can
                  > > > be changed over time. I have found I have been
                  > able
                  > > > to do this in
                  > > > myself. Just like telling myself my emotions are
                  > > > just chemicals at
                  > > > work doesn't mean much in day-to-day operations.
                  > > > More of a framework
                  > > > to life that pushes me in certain directions and
                  > > > attitudes.
                  > > > > I somewhat do this by generally avoiding
                  > > woman
                  > > > (yeah yeah I know
                  > > > that's hypocritical but at least I don't hurt
                  > > > anyone's feelings) that
                  > > > are NOT my type. However once I do become
                  > involved
                  > > > my moral code
                  > > > seems to kick in to prevent me from emotionally
                  > > > abandoning a person
                  > > > simply because they do not conform to some
                  > > > 'standard'.
                  > > >
                  > > > Usually I would never get mixed up with a
                  > girl
                  > > > like Kelly but
                  > > > for whatever reason.... I did. So here I am.
                  > > >
                  > > > J.Aiden
                  > > >
                  > > > P.S. What kind(s) of woman do you avoid?
                  > > >
                  > > > Personally.... I tend to keep away from the
                  > heavy
                  > > > make-up, high
                  > > > maintenance, loud judgmental type that put
                  > everyone
                  > > > down. I
                  > > > definitely like nice people. 'Bad' girls are fun
                  > to
                  > > > ride once and a
                  > > > while, but they tend to deep down be insecure
                  > and
                  > > > miserable, and
                  > > > usually are not happy until you feel that way
                  > too.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In existlist@y..., greg goodwin
                  > > > <ggoodwin56@y...> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- Jim Aiden <livewild@h...> wrote:
                  > > > > > So as you all know,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I am a complete unstable and erratic
                  > > > individual
                  > > > > > with very few real
                  > > > > > opinions but lots to say. This can be all
                  > right
                  > > > and
                  > > > > > perhaps even
                  > > > > > desirable for Internet Existential forums
                  > (where
                  > > > > > people can't get
                  > > > > > their hands around your neck) but can be
                  >
                  === message truncated ===


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                • Ryan Dewald
                  Greg, My condolences. Were you close? -Ryan ... From: greg goodwin [mailto:ggoodwin56@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:20 AM To:
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
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                    Greg,

                    My condolences. Were you close?

                    -Ryan

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: greg goodwin [mailto:ggoodwin56@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:20 AM
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Existentialism and dating


                    Jim,
                    Sorry about the long wait for a response but my
                    Grandmother died sunday so I have been a bit preempted
                    as to my regular activities.
                    When you find this woman, see if she a twin sister
                    for me.
                    Greg
                  • Ryan Dewald
                    I have been itching to get into the dating discussion but I ve been too busy to broach such a broad issue. First off, Jim, well-worded dilemma I think it
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
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                      I have been itching to get into the dating discussion but I've been too busy
                      to broach such a broad issue. First off, Jim, well-worded dilemma I think
                      it describes a phenomena with good fidelity.

                      This woman's values in a mate, physical image and wealth are understandable
                      values. Most of us can imagine someone either too ugly or too impoverished
                      to be attractive to us and I think that you acknowledge this too Jim. So
                      this girl's initial value system is at least understandable.

                      What I wonder is if it's more that she fails to see the value of intellect
                      and critical thought that bugs you. I also wonder if it isn't your critical
                      thought that's got her coming back for more from you even though you,
                      however anemically, repell her advances and if she actually DOES value
                      critical though but just hasn't been exposed to a lot of it and hasn't done
                      a lot of it herself.

                      I recommend 3 options for avenues of action.

                      1. Engage her in critical thinking often, plan it out ahead of time. Enjoy
                      opening doors of perception for another person, so long as she appreciates
                      it. But avoid having sex with her under these conditions since there is a
                      natural power imbalance and someone will get hurt or messed up.

                      2. If you really are annoyed by her, take her on a short journey through her
                      own belief system and pop the seams wherever it's convenient. Explain to
                      her why she's too thin, intellectually, for you. But if she's into some
                      no-strings sex...

                      3. If you really like her then I'd say you've gotta explain your concerns in
                      the context of the fact that your eally like her and see what she has to
                      say. Explain your philosophy and why you believe what you do, she ought to
                      volunteer hers. If you can identify the differences and are both okay with
                      them, then Rock On! If you can't, then it should be clear to you both and
                      no one should get too hurt.

                      Most of all HAVE FUN! It's the only life you get!

                      I'm no expert or anything, but that's what came to mind on my shoestring
                      budget of time.

                      Good luck and do keep us informed!!

                      Ryan the antichrist... I mean anarchist
                    • Bill Harris
                      Et, all. I have followed the conversation regarding mating habits of the north american bull existentialist. It supports my contention that breeding is a
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
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                        Et, all. I have followed the conversation regarding mating habits of the
                        north american bull existentialist. It supports my contention that breeding
                        is a hormonal exercise bereft of reason or for that matter accountability.
                        It therefore takes me to a topic which relates most directly to both the
                        intellectual diviance of sexual behavior and existentialism. That topic is
                        will. Bill
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Ryan Dewald" <rdewald@...>
                        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:15 AM
                        Subject: RE: [existlist] Re: Existentialism and dating


                        > Greg,
                        >
                        > My condolences. Were you close?
                        >
                        > -Ryan
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: greg goodwin [mailto:ggoodwin56@...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:20 AM
                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Existentialism and dating
                        >
                        >
                        > Jim,
                        > Sorry about the long wait for a response but my
                        > Grandmother died sunday so I have been a bit preempted
                        > as to my regular activities.
                        > When you find this woman, see if she a twin sister
                        > for me.
                        > Greg
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                        >
                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • greg goodwin
                        and tripletts quads etc. It would be nice to share with those around you. However if they would and I could I would take/fornicate all as well. Enjoy my friend
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
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                          and tripletts quads etc.
                          It would be nice to share with those around you.
                          However if they would and I could I would
                          take/fornicate all as well.
                          Enjoy my friend enjoy
                          Greg
                          --- Jim Aiden <livewild@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Greg,
                          >
                          > if she exists and has a twin, I taking the both of
                          > them.... moving to
                          > Utah... and becoming a Mormon.
                          >
                          > J.Aiden
                          >
                          > ---------------------
                          >
                          > --- In existlist@y..., greg goodwin
                          > <ggoodwin56@y...> wrote:
                          > > Jim,
                          > > Sorry about the long wait for a response but my
                          > > Grandmother died sunday so I have been a bit
                          > preempted
                          > > as to my regular activities.
                          > > When you find this woman, see if she a twin
                          > sister
                          > > for me.
                          > > Greg
                          > > --- Jim Aiden <livewild@h...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Greg,
                          > > >
                          > > > you seem to have all the bases covered. Any
                          > woman
                          > > > left over?
                          > > >
                          > > > I prefer highly intelligent, motivated,
                          > saintly
                          > > > girls, with a
                          > > > great set of legs, a beautiful face, and a
                          > > > dedication to orally
                          > > > pleasuring me before and after cooking me
                          > dinner.
                          > > > Not asking much eh?
                          > > >
                          > > > Actually I'd 'settle' for an all right
                          > looking
                          > > > girl (if I can
                          > > > orgasm once or twice a week, it's enough) but
                          > > > someone that loves me
                          > > > to death, will stay devoted, and someone that is
                          > > > happy just being
                          > > > with and taking care of me. I guess I should
                          > add...
                          > > > I have to respect
                          > > > her.
                          > > >
                          > > > And I don't want someone that is unhappy
                          > because
                          > > > in the end I'll
                          > > > end up on rack right alongside them. Hard to
                          > find
                          > > > happy people these
                          > > > days though... especially woman. The media has
                          > > > created a nightmare of
                          > > > perfection for them to aspire to. Unfortunately,
                          > I
                          > > > noticed men seem
                          > > > to be going in the same direction. Luckily, like
                          > > > yourself, I am
                          > > > already an ideal specimen for a breeding
                          > male.....
                          > > > yeah... really...I
                          > > > think I'm falling for you... you are so
                          > beautiful...
                          > > > I love you so
                          > > > much.... sorry honey....what do you mean I'm
                          > > > judgmental... of course
                          > > > I care about you...you make no sense....keep
                          > away
                          > > > from me....I'm
                          > > > going to call the cops if you don't stop
                          > hounding
                          > > > me...
                          > > >
                          > > > Your right sometimes.... Waa-tish. Who's your
                          > > > daddy? Say it.....
                          > > > is much easier to handle.
                          > > >
                          > > > J.Aiden
                          > > >
                          > > > ---------------------------------
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In existlist@y..., greg goodwin
                          > > > <ggoodwin56@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > Jim,
                          > > > > I TRY to stay away from women that make
                          > judgments
                          > > > > based upon someone's pocketbook. I also do not
                          > > > care
                          > > > > for 'slutty' women, anyone can 'have' them,
                          > but I
                          > > > did
                          > > > > use "try" and "do not care for" but as
                          > > > hypocritical as
                          > > > > it is I have shared many a wonderful encounter
                          > > > with
                          > > > > women that fit comfortably into these types.
                          > > > > I really like the petite, girl next door type
                          > > > > although the girls next door nowadays seem to
                          > go
                          > > > into
                          > > > > one of the afore mentioned catagories.
                          > > > > I REALLY do like walks in the woods, a stroll
                          > > > down
                          > > > > the beach, a bar-b-que on the weekends with
                          > > > friends
                          > > > > and would like to find a woman that would be
                          > > > > comfortable just being with me as I am
                          > comfortable
                          > > > > being with her. Doesn't sound like much and
                          > > > indeed,
                          > > > > many seem to fill the bill, for a while then
                          > > > either I
                          > > > > or they change and life nosedives.
                          > > > > I dated a girl a little while ago and
                          > whenever we
                          > > > > were in the car was steadily holding my hand,
                          > if
                          > > > in my
                          > > > > truck our thighs weresolidly together. When we
                          > got
                          > > > out
                          > > > > of the vehicle she waited to see if I was
                          > going
                          > > > front
                          > > > > or rear and then sped to clinch my arm into
                          > both
                          > > > of
                          > > > > hers. Quite nice, really made me feel quite
                          > > > 'studly';
                          > > > > for a while then it was old very quickly,
                          > > > eventually a
                          > > > > non-mutual split occurred.
                          > > > > Your sentiments on 'bad' girls is what we all
                          > > > live
                          > > > > for, though not with, at least not for very
                          > long
                          > > > at a
                          > > > > time; but it is nice knowing you can always go
                          > > > back
                          > > > > for more when YOU get ready.
                          > > > > Girls who seem to rave on and on about things
                          > > > they
                          > > > > find important, then ask whats wrong baby,
                          > tell
                          > > > mama
                          > > > > and then when you try to speak she abruptly
                          > > > changes
                          > > > > the subject; things on your mind are not
                          > important
                          > > > to
                          > > > > her definitely are ones I leave alone.
                          > > > > Women that carry on about old relationships
                          > (How
                          > > > > great/bad someone was)leaves me quite cold.
                          > > > > I cannot stop without going into the women
                          > that
                          > > > are
                          > > > > so impressed with thenselves that you should
                          > be
                          > > > > grateful they will be seen with you (to top
                          > this
                          > > > off
                          > > > > these are usually the most average looking
                          > women,
                          > > > go
                          > > > > figure!)
                          > > > > Greg
                          > > > > --- Jim Aiden <livewild@h...> wrote:
                          > > > > > << but I know which type I no longer have
                          > time
                          > > > for>
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Greg,
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > This is probably part of my problem
                          > Greg. I
                          > > > > > understand what you
                          > > > > > mean by type but I TRY (keyword) not to
                          > create
                          > > > > > stereotypes. My mind
                          > > > > > says 'types' are just conditioning. There
                          > are
                          > > > > > simply people that
                          > > > > > have tendencies that is all. Conditioning if
                          > the
                          > > > > > will is present can
                          > > > > > be changed over time. I have found I have
                          > been
                          > > > able
                          > > > > > to do this in
                          > > > > > myself. Just like telling myself my emotions
                          > are
                          > > > > > just chemicals at
                          > > > > > work doesn't mean much in day-to-day
                          > operations.
                          >
                          === message truncated ===


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