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Re: [existlist] Re: datingism

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  • openbook02@aol.com
    Actually... the rational ones often don t have much of a dating drive . Wouldn t that make sense? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2001
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      Actually...
      the rational ones often don't have much of a 'dating drive'. Wouldn't
      that make sense?


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • openbook02@aol.com
      but don t you guys think that people seem more or less attractive once you get an idea of their persona. So looks are the first thing you see. It isn t as
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2001
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        but don't you guys think that people seem more or less attractive once you
        get an idea of their persona. So looks are the first thing you see. It
        isn't as though you're looking for a picture.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • openbook02@aol.com
        i didn t realize how dumb that sounded until i sent it, sorry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 1, 2001
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          i didn't realize how dumb that sounded until i sent it, sorry



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • nothing@theabsurd.com
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 1, 2001
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            <<don't you guys think that people seem more or less attractive once
            you get an idea of their persona.>>

            'Attractive' is vague. I have a distinct feeling that some of us quite
            disticntly separate 'love' from 'carnal desire' and some are more
            talented at meshing the two. Either can prove to be attractive. In one
            example you may have a man feeling attracted to a 'beautiful' woman
            only because he'd like to get her naked -- not marry her -- finding
            her chemically interesting. And another where he might want to live
            with her and do things for her having no idea why -- yet thinking
            she's ugli as sin, often helping her to zip up anything exposed. In a
            third you might have some combination of these.

            Persona or no, there are certain types i can be no more attracted to
            than some waterbuffalo in heat -- no matter how many times I might be
            assured how beautiful and attractive this person is by other sources.
            I find the chemical register for liking and desiring to be quite
            distinct -- and sometimes inexplicably so. I also have the feeling
            that many women (or it seems a situation more likely in women for
            whatever reason) can influence attraction with unified perspective on
            love and desire -- to varying extents. Personally I don't remember a
            situation where someone has grown on me over time...the perception
            seeps in quite quickly...though I can align personal examples of
            'beautiful' and 'ugli' women whom I have found attractive and not so.
            I couldn't distinctly say in all cases what it is that makes the
            attraction. I can't explain it and don't need to appologize for
            it...do I?

            Perhaps Mr. Aiden's chemistry set can explain this. Perhaps there are
            senses that we have which help us tell a kind person from another
            which we can't be completely conscious of. Perhaps there are a variety
            of very subtle things which work together to create a sense somewhere
            in our psyche.

            What it says to me is: women end up having, often, to convince
            themselves that a man is desireable. I would have to spend a lot of
            time convincing myself as well; especially if I thought it meant I'd
            not only have to pamper the lug and be his slave, but like him as
            well. While some have to absorb roles to be comfortable, that is not a
            role I would ever be good at convincing myself of.

            still-capsized-from-a-moment-of-slavery-in-message-5034
            ------------------------
          • openbook02@aol.com
            alright, so like i was saying, the rational one s don t usually have much of a dating drive, because they re usually content with themselves. Besides, why
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 1, 2001
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              alright,
              so like i was saying, the rational one's don't usually have much of a
              dating drive, because they're usually content with themselves. Besides, why
              would they look for someone who looked at women as a tally unless they were
              just looking for sex-- which doesn't really make sense anyway, since most
              women won't orgasm during sex. They can do the job better themselves.
              Companionship like that can come with a vibrator. As flattering as one may
              think it is to be called "cute"... well, personally, it's not. The way some
              people generalize women, or they're view on relationships seems a blatent
              mockery.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • stuart lu
              dating is different for each sex. the female probably need it because they feel the urge for dependance and a man in their lives who can offer protection and
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 2, 2001
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                dating is different for each sex.

                the female probably need it because they feel the urge
                for dependance and a man in their lives who can offer
                protection and masculinity yet many women despise
                masculinity. most probably their internal urges
                require it in their lives. whether a lot or very
                little
                then there is the possibility that they need men
                simply because they are carnal maniacs. they want sex
                whether it's with a beautiful man or an ugly. whatever
                has a dick

                the male most probably dates because he wants a woman
                for sex. He is not gay so he looks towards the
                opposite sex.
                yet some men do love a woman and will eventually meet
                the one they are supposed to be with.

                actually dating could be very subjective
                hmm....

                __________________________________________________
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              • Jim Aiden
                James, although physical attraction gets a girl through the door it need not last nor is it that important to
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 3, 2001
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                  << kelly cannot change her sexiness and charm. >>

                  James,

                  although physical attraction gets a girl through the door it need not
                  last nor is it that important to me aside from the intial meeting.
                  What it comes down to is change. We will grow old, creaky and ugly...
                  and that's if we're lucky. There are those that accept and embrace
                  that aspect of life and those that skirt it.

                  I realize in a group like this, love is probably somewhere between
                  the tooth fairy and G~d..... that love is simply a selfish desire. I
                  mostly believe that but I would qualify it in that I believe the
                  boundry of self is extended to the other when one is in love. For me
                  that takes the black bite oout of such words.

                  I cannot say I love Kelly more of an infatuation.I don't know her
                  well enough to say that. I don't believe in love at first sight....
                  only attraction. You have to know the essence of someone to be able
                  to say such things and obviously there are issues between us. More
                  importantly love needs to be demonstrated through action... something
                  I have not done.

                  As for the psychological assessment below, interesting. I've heard
                  some of the perspectives before (In relation to why we love) but
                  aside from perhaps some desperation to find a 'suitable'
                  (not 'worthy' as BookDoc asserts) mate I can't find too much parallel
                  to my life.

                  To me, sex without love is akin to junk food. Tastes good but
                  empty of enduring nutritional value. If one's desire is sex alone,
                  then a prostitute is likely the best course. It is a much more
                  effective way of having sex. You pick exactly who you want, when you
                  want and there is no emotional aftermath and maintenance. Perhaps a
                  male sense of pride (i.e. I don't have to pay for sex) or some moral
                  perspective prevents this in men with a high sexualy motivation. I
                  find this far more ethical than leading a woman into believing a
                  relationship is imminant for the sake of intercourse. How barbaric of
                  me eh?

                  As for myself.... I want the proverbial hockey team to my fulfill
                  my genetic destiny and play out my years supporting my family.
                  Perhaps I am selfish or boring, but that is what I desire more than
                  anything. In fact, I would go so far as to say that is my only true
                  desire aside from survival. I have things... I have friends... a good
                  job.... I have travelled a great deal of the world.... I am
                  relatively educated.... what is left for me? The animal in me...
                  no.... the human in me requires that I complete my duties here. I
                  feel no guilt or weakness in it, I embrace it.

                  And as for Kelly.... I though I would see her on Saturday and she
                  didn't even call. So either she's lost interest or she's still angry
                  with me for putting her off. Whatever the case, I have always been
                  straightforward with her and if it makes her unhappy anything between
                  us is moot. I left some voicemail for her letting her know despite
                  the disagreements we have that I do feel something for her and that
                  if she wants to talk... I'll listen (for once).

                  Based on history there is a good chance she's going to call. I
                  think she just doesn't want to appear that she cares. I might be
                  wrong but I'll post if it happens. It might be a while (4 weeks the
                  last time).

                  In the meantime, Heather is waiting for me.... pigtailed blonde,
                  blue eyes, fake breasts, former stripper. Not so much for sex but,
                  believe it or not, for cuddling and being pampered. I know.... I am
                  such a wuss.

                  This other girl says and does the right things. I don't judge her
                  as a 'whore' as all my friends do because of what she did for a
                  living. Although I can't yet find chemistry she has always been
                  upfront with me. I may still occasionally think about Kelly but the
                  sea has many 'clams'...... and I hope to grow to love one of them
                  someday and maybe one will love my sorry ass.

                  Like anything worthwhile in life, compatibility is not easy to
                  find, but I believe the dividends are well worth the wait. Honestly I
                  don't know why people settle for anything less in life.

                  J.Aiden

                  ------------------------------------------------




                  --- In existlist@y..., "james tan" <tyjfk@h...> wrote:
                  >
                  > where i am coming from is a bit different from what you want. one
                  of my
                  > life's aim is to make love with girls from all the races of the
                  world; so
                  > far, about one fifth of the world is 'conquered'. my aim is simple,
                  and
                  > maybe shallow (almost beastly, to some). what you want, it seems,
                  is a life
                  > partner. someone whom you can be authentic with, not just to her,
                  but to
                  > yourself while being with her. in that case, the issue of your
                  personal
                  > values, self, outlook is a significant one as it relates to hers;
                  you wanted
                  > what i call 'congruency'. this is indeed important in a
                  relationship if your
                  > life aim is to be happy with the same person who 'cares whether you
                  still
                  > exist the next friday'. if indeed the relationship were to become
                  long term.
                  > mine is a number game: to make love to as many females as possible;
                  i love
                  > the variety and the sex (and i don't care if i get std). let me
                  just
                  > speculate about the other possible dimension of your relationship
                  with kelly
                  > (for the sake of speculation). your concern of getting too intimate
                  with
                  > kelly, someone with a slghtly different outlook (hers a
                  materialistic
                  > outlook?! 2 factors: the survival of the fittest drive her in this
                  > direction, a purely evolutionary, instintual motivation; and so-
                  called
                  > materialistic outlook could be translated into the primal need for
                  security,
                  > and security is 'seen' in terms of being able to satisfy basic
                  needs such as
                  > shelther (big house if possible, also serve as symbol of social or
                  economic
                  > status), food, sex (her preference for athletic body hint on this
                  aspect,
                  > not just a health and athletic aspect), status, social respect).
                  the
                  > question of identity, of who you are becomes pertinent in who you
                  choose to
                  > be your life partner, in a sense a kind of alter ego (you would
                  want to go
                  > with her to all important social functions, and you might be
                  socially
                  > 'assessed' base on your choice of kind of partner); it would be
                  miserable
                  > indeed if you 'quarrel' with her every day over difference in
                  outlooks, let
                  > alone to expect her as your soulmate. being close to another in a
                  loving
                  > relationship makes one aware that life is precious, but must
                  eventually be
                  > surrendered; you want to make sure that the person is indeed worthy
                  of your
                  > life and its surrendering. so the question is never merely a
                  physical issue
                  > of making love; rather, it is intimately connected to every aspects
                  of your
                  > life, not least emotional, perhaps even spiritual. you are
                  understandably
                  > hesistant about kelly. but kelly is hot (i take that to mean sexy),
                  and it
                  > becomes a stimuli that could not fail to activate your male
                  hormones. a
                  > human being is not just mind (which explain your love of ideas, but
                  to that
                  > you can always appeal to eduard), he is body as well (to that,
                  maybe kelly
                  > is more appropriate than eduard); so kelly pull and push you in
                  different
                  > direction. on the one hand she blatantly voice her materialist
                  outlook (and
                  > perhaps scorn at the intellectual) and on the other, she has such
                  sexy lips
                  > and body, and long and slim legs. oh my god, such paradox in life.
                  do i have
                  > to make such difficult choice?! this is angst. oh my god. how i
                  wish to hold
                  > her in my arms, to feel her warm, to touch her softness, to lick
                  her long
                  > legs. but then, but then, but then, she has such materialist
                  outlook?! this
                  > is angst, this is a cognitive dissonance, and i being a
                  intellectual find it
                  > such a torture. i must resolve it somewhat, somehow: either kelly
                  change her
                  > outlook and expectation, or i change my outlook and expectation,
                  but one
                  > thing must remain constant: kelly cannot change her sexiness and
                  charm.
                  > let's see how this could work out: i can't be changing myself, else
                  i will
                  > not be jim anymore; therefore, kelly must change. but i doubt kelly
                  will
                  > change, afterall, it is not something as easy as changing your t-
                  shirt, i
                  > mean we are talking about personality and outlook that take years
                  to form.
                  > this point to one question: do i really, actually, genuinely love
                  kelly in
                  > the first place? if there is such a fundamental difference, what
                  makes me
                  > think at all that i love her? maybe i have not touched a woman for
                  a long
                  > time since the last breakup? maybe i have not had sex for
                  a 'unreasonably'
                  > long period of time? although i can always find a pretty chick to
                  ~~, but i
                  > am jim, i am not just a animal, i have some minimum expectation
                  worthy of a
                  > respectable human! and i am not just any respectable human, i am
                  jim! but
                  > whatever it is, i long for a female contact (and actually, this is
                  a secret,
                  > i am somewhat a bit desperate, afterall, i am mr chemical, and i am
                  not just
                  > sexually hungry, if i care to admit, but i am emotionally hungry as
                  well).
                  > but my parents do love me, now or in childhood, and i think i am
                  not
                  > emotionally deprived??! i used to have girlfriends who simply adore
                  me?!!
                  > could i have failed to make a distinction between emotional hunger
                  for love?
                  > sexual hunger for love? but i am jim; in any cases, i shall select
                  my mate
                  > properly, and not just take what i can get that happen to come
                  along my way.
                  > let me just look at kelly: does she has personality traits that
                  resemble my
                  > father or mother, or some significant others in my childhood? why
                  do i find
                  > her so attractive when she is not the most intelligent or prettiest
                  of all?
                  > do i feel useless unless i find myself a mate?
                  >
                  > excuse my rumination.
                  >
                  > james.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: "Jim Aiden" <livewild@h...>
                  > Reply-To: existlist@y...
                  > To: existlist@y...
                  > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialism and dating
                  > Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:29:28 -0000
                  >
                  >
                  > James as usual your posts are on the mark with what I'm
                  thinking
                  > but both Wyatt and landry both have given me a couple of things to
                  > think about. Just to clarify... I don't want to be with her just
                  > because she's hot. I meet all kinds of woman of various strengths
                  and
                  > persuasions. There is more to this. I have 'feelings' for her.
                  >
                  > Landry why I say it's existential in nature is because of the
                  > moral and <self> aspect of it. A piece of me is judging her for
                  > something another piece of me seems to condone. Granted piece one is
                  > not as prominent as piece two... but both are part of me. I must say
                  > emotionally I'm leaning on what James is saying because I want it to
                  > work between us for the emotional (not so much sexual) reasons. I
                  > don't spend Friday nights alone usually, but I'd like to spend it
                  > with the same person.... and someone that cares whether I exist or
                  > not the next Friday.
                  >
                  > I don't understand why I should like her anymore than anyone of
                  > the other girls I meet. She has this power she has over me.
                  > Attractive though she be... I've met more attractive. Intelligent
                  > though she appear... I've met more intelligent. What is this spell
                  > that draws us so powerfully to a particular individual?
                  >
                  > Well, I digress.
                  >
                  > I can't say I know what I'm going to do, but my thanks to those
                  > that responded. I'm going to be seeing her this weekend. I'm not
                  > going out tonight in the hope I can resolve this in my mind.
                  > I'm hoping she'll say something that makes me alter my vision of
                  her.
                  > Truthfully other than that, I don't really expect a resolution other
                  > than perhaps she'll tire of dealing with me. I suspect I need to
                  > somewhat respect a woman because if I don't, I would make both her
                  > and myself miserable. It's not that I believe I know I have a
                  clearer
                  > view of life, it's just that some thought process gets triggered
                  that
                  > just makes me want to smack her in the head. Perhaps I should
                  change?
                  > Maybe like figuring out whether to purchase a car, I should write
                  > down the pros and cons of this particular model and the sacrifices
                  > necessary if I chose to purchase (or lease)?
                  >
                  > Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... emotions. I usual have good control at
                  > manipulating them, but sometimes the buggers take a life of their
                  own.
                  > I guess that's what makes us human. Neither am I complaining... .
                  I'm
                  > happy to have the problems I do. There are so many people on this
                  > planet that have real problems.
                  >
                  > J.Aiden
                  >
                  > ---------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@y..., landrywc@g... wrote:
                  > > Jim,
                  > > I must say, when someone says they "are both flattered and
                  > repulsed"
                  > > about a certain relationship, I would suspect that he/she is
                  > > attracted to the physical appearance, but ultimately is not
                  > attracted
                  > > to the other because, in your case, "her materialistic outlook on
                  > > life". I would say this is not so much an existential dilemma
                  but a
                  > > moment of weakness on your part. You want to sleep with her
                  because
                  > > she's hot, but you cannot stand her because she is
                  materialistic. I
                  > > guess it's all up to you, Jim. What are you looking for? Did you
                  > say
                  > > something about looking for a stable relationship? Anyone can get
                  > > laid, and there all kinds of great looking people out there. If
                  > > that's what you're looking for, I say "Go for it!" But...it
                  sounds
                  > to
                  > > me like you are looking for something more than this - if that's
                  > the
                  > > case, my advice to you is forego the sex and look elsewhere for
                  > what
                  > > you REALLY want. Good luck.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                  http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
                • Jim Aiden
                  I m not going to shoot you down for this comment, but it does
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 3, 2001
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                    << women are, on the whole, not rational beings, and the ones that
                    are are often lesbians- >>

                    I'm not going to shoot you down for this comment, but it does seem
                    a rather simplistic approach. Rather I thought about it over the
                    weekend and in true keeping with my 'beliefs' I approached it as
                    a 'what if' truth.

                    You see since I seem to believe that our sense of 'a priori' logic
                    are the function of our emotions, and they of course a symptom of
                    chemical reaction... then what you say almost makes sense. Men and
                    women have slightly different chemical activity. What might seem
                    logical or important to a man, might not seem so to a woman and vice
                    versa.

                    Let me go off the road for a second......

                    As someone that is into bodybuilding I often shave or wax most of
                    my body free of hair. Despite all the easy jokes that surround such a
                    supposedly feminine activity, I usually find the opposite sex by far
                    prefers a well groomed man.

                    I was watching this program on discovery on Sunday about mating
                    habits (something that's been on my mind quite a bit the last week).
                    One of the creatures they discussed was the Wolf Spider. Apparently
                    the females of this species prefer males that have very hair legs.

                    So here is my question (or answer?). There is no right or wrong
                    logic to whether a female (or male for that matter) is correct. They
                    simply are. The male is still somewhat dominate therefore female
                    behavior is still deemed irratic. I do not think male behavior is any
                    more rational unless one defines rational as young, 20th century,
                    caucasion, urban professional male. Hmmm... Why stop even there?
                    Let's forget middle class.... dominant social class.

                    What I'm trying to say is I certainly don't understand most woman
                    but then again I don't understand my own behavior too much. I don't
                    view myself as particularily rational to some ideal standard. We each
                    are rational to our own inner view of what is logical and our
                    experiences. I know of no experts... only cute tricks (like Mensa). I
                    do not think philosophical intelligence can be measured until a
                    common agreement is found as to what that term encompasses.

                    Is it rational for me to wax my chest or even bodybuild for that
                    matter? Maybe, if my objective is to appear attractive to certain
                    types of females. Is it rational that those thoughts should consume
                    space in my mind? Depends who you talk to. The independent moralistic
                    types might say it is a sign of a shallow individual. Personally I
                    view it as I want to be able to be selective of a partner and
                    maintaining an athletic physique makes that job that much easier. I'd
                    prefer not to waste the two hours a day and 250 dollars a week in
                    food on such trivial activity, but that seems the way of things.
                    Having a suitable mate seems important enough to me. (Just as an
                    aside... now that I've been doing it a while, I've discovered other
                    maginal benefits like feeling healthy :)

                    In the end, I can find no rationalism in wanting to be desirable.
                    Or wanting to procreate. Or wanting anything for that matter. Desire
                    is a function of my body (and mind) crying out to perform biological
                    activity I was programmed to do. I imagine so that I may eventual
                    succeed in procreation or at the very least help my society prosper.
                    (Mind you the perception and reality are two different things.)

                    We are still just somewhat evolved monkeys doing tricks so we can
                    have our banana.

                    Ouuu Ouuu Aaa Aaa

                    J.Aiden


                    ----------------------

                    --- In existlist@y..., awrybrewer@a... wrote:
                    > Well, my friend it is time to step up to the essence building
                    plate. You
                    > know that choice is key. So deliberate and choose. If you
                    compromise yourself
                    > by being with her then welcome to the world of bad faith, not that
                    that is a
                    > bad thing all the time, but in human relation it could be a
                    problem. I am
                    > going to make an offensive and gross generalization, so if you wish
                    not to be
                    > offended send your inner child out of the room.
                    > --women are, on the whole, not rational beings, and the ones that
                    are are
                    > often lesbians-
                    > So do not try to understand her. Accept or reject. It maybe in
                    time you
                    > allow for the things that irk you about her, though I believe, that
                    comes as
                    > the beginning of love.
                    >
                    > --Mark
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • greg goodwin
                    Jim, Sorry about the long wait for a response but my Grandmother died sunday so I have been a bit preempted as to my regular activities. When you find this
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
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                      Jim,
                      Sorry about the long wait for a response but my
                      Grandmother died sunday so I have been a bit preempted
                      as to my regular activities.
                      When you find this woman, see if she a twin sister
                      for me.
                      Greg
                      --- Jim Aiden <livewild@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Greg,
                      >
                      > you seem to have all the bases covered. Any woman
                      > left over?
                      >
                      > I prefer highly intelligent, motivated, saintly
                      > girls, with a
                      > great set of legs, a beautiful face, and a
                      > dedication to orally
                      > pleasuring me before and after cooking me dinner.
                      > Not asking much eh?
                      >
                      > Actually I'd 'settle' for an all right looking
                      > girl (if I can
                      > orgasm once or twice a week, it's enough) but
                      > someone that loves me
                      > to death, will stay devoted, and someone that is
                      > happy just being
                      > with and taking care of me. I guess I should add...
                      > I have to respect
                      > her.
                      >
                      > And I don't want someone that is unhappy because
                      > in the end I'll
                      > end up on rack right alongside them. Hard to find
                      > happy people these
                      > days though... especially woman. The media has
                      > created a nightmare of
                      > perfection for them to aspire to. Unfortunately, I
                      > noticed men seem
                      > to be going in the same direction. Luckily, like
                      > yourself, I am
                      > already an ideal specimen for a breeding male.....
                      > yeah... really...I
                      > think I'm falling for you... you are so beautiful...
                      > I love you so
                      > much.... sorry honey....what do you mean I'm
                      > judgmental... of course
                      > I care about you...you make no sense....keep away
                      > from me....I'm
                      > going to call the cops if you don't stop hounding
                      > me...
                      >
                      > Your right sometimes.... Waa-tish. Who's your
                      > daddy? Say it.....
                      > is much easier to handle.
                      >
                      > J.Aiden
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      >
                      > --- In existlist@y..., greg goodwin
                      > <ggoodwin56@y...> wrote:
                      > > Jim,
                      > > I TRY to stay away from women that make judgments
                      > > based upon someone's pocketbook. I also do not
                      > care
                      > > for 'slutty' women, anyone can 'have' them, but I
                      > did
                      > > use "try" and "do not care for" but as
                      > hypocritical as
                      > > it is I have shared many a wonderful encounter
                      > with
                      > > women that fit comfortably into these types.
                      > > I really like the petite, girl next door type
                      > > although the girls next door nowadays seem to go
                      > into
                      > > one of the afore mentioned catagories.
                      > > I REALLY do like walks in the woods, a stroll
                      > down
                      > > the beach, a bar-b-que on the weekends with
                      > friends
                      > > and would like to find a woman that would be
                      > > comfortable just being with me as I am comfortable
                      > > being with her. Doesn't sound like much and
                      > indeed,
                      > > many seem to fill the bill, for a while then
                      > either I
                      > > or they change and life nosedives.
                      > > I dated a girl a little while ago and whenever we
                      > > were in the car was steadily holding my hand, if
                      > in my
                      > > truck our thighs weresolidly together. When we got
                      > out
                      > > of the vehicle she waited to see if I was going
                      > front
                      > > or rear and then sped to clinch my arm into both
                      > of
                      > > hers. Quite nice, really made me feel quite
                      > 'studly';
                      > > for a while then it was old very quickly,
                      > eventually a
                      > > non-mutual split occurred.
                      > > Your sentiments on 'bad' girls is what we all
                      > live
                      > > for, though not with, at least not for very long
                      > at a
                      > > time; but it is nice knowing you can always go
                      > back
                      > > for more when YOU get ready.
                      > > Girls who seem to rave on and on about things
                      > they
                      > > find important, then ask whats wrong baby, tell
                      > mama
                      > > and then when you try to speak she abruptly
                      > changes
                      > > the subject; things on your mind are not important
                      > to
                      > > her definitely are ones I leave alone.
                      > > Women that carry on about old relationships (How
                      > > great/bad someone was)leaves me quite cold.
                      > > I cannot stop without going into the women that
                      > are
                      > > so impressed with thenselves that you should be
                      > > grateful they will be seen with you (to top this
                      > off
                      > > these are usually the most average looking women,
                      > go
                      > > figure!)
                      > > Greg
                      > > --- Jim Aiden <livewild@h...> wrote:
                      > > > << but I know which type I no longer have time
                      > for>
                      > > >
                      > > > Greg,
                      > > >
                      > > > This is probably part of my problem Greg. I
                      > > > understand what you
                      > > > mean by type but I TRY (keyword) not to create
                      > > > stereotypes. My mind
                      > > > says 'types' are just conditioning. There are
                      > > > simply people that
                      > > > have tendencies that is all. Conditioning if the
                      > > > will is present can
                      > > > be changed over time. I have found I have been
                      > able
                      > > > to do this in
                      > > > myself. Just like telling myself my emotions are
                      > > > just chemicals at
                      > > > work doesn't mean much in day-to-day operations.
                      > > > More of a framework
                      > > > to life that pushes me in certain directions and
                      > > > attitudes.
                      > > > > I somewhat do this by generally avoiding
                      > > woman
                      > > > (yeah yeah I know
                      > > > that's hypocritical but at least I don't hurt
                      > > > anyone's feelings) that
                      > > > are NOT my type. However once I do become
                      > involved
                      > > > my moral code
                      > > > seems to kick in to prevent me from emotionally
                      > > > abandoning a person
                      > > > simply because they do not conform to some
                      > > > 'standard'.
                      > > >
                      > > > Usually I would never get mixed up with a
                      > girl
                      > > > like Kelly but
                      > > > for whatever reason.... I did. So here I am.
                      > > >
                      > > > J.Aiden
                      > > >
                      > > > P.S. What kind(s) of woman do you avoid?
                      > > >
                      > > > Personally.... I tend to keep away from the
                      > heavy
                      > > > make-up, high
                      > > > maintenance, loud judgmental type that put
                      > everyone
                      > > > down. I
                      > > > definitely like nice people. 'Bad' girls are fun
                      > to
                      > > > ride once and a
                      > > > while, but they tend to deep down be insecure
                      > and
                      > > > miserable, and
                      > > > usually are not happy until you feel that way
                      > too.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In existlist@y..., greg goodwin
                      > > > <ggoodwin56@y...> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- Jim Aiden <livewild@h...> wrote:
                      > > > > > So as you all know,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I am a complete unstable and erratic
                      > > > individual
                      > > > > > with very few real
                      > > > > > opinions but lots to say. This can be all
                      > right
                      > > > and
                      > > > > > perhaps even
                      > > > > > desirable for Internet Existential forums
                      > (where
                      > > > > > people can't get
                      > > > > > their hands around your neck) but can be
                      >
                      === message truncated ===


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                    • Ryan Dewald
                      Greg, My condolences. Were you close? -Ryan ... From: greg goodwin [mailto:ggoodwin56@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:20 AM To:
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
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                        Greg,

                        My condolences. Were you close?

                        -Ryan

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: greg goodwin [mailto:ggoodwin56@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:20 AM
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Existentialism and dating


                        Jim,
                        Sorry about the long wait for a response but my
                        Grandmother died sunday so I have been a bit preempted
                        as to my regular activities.
                        When you find this woman, see if she a twin sister
                        for me.
                        Greg
                      • Ryan Dewald
                        I have been itching to get into the dating discussion but I ve been too busy to broach such a broad issue. First off, Jim, well-worded dilemma I think it
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
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                          I have been itching to get into the dating discussion but I've been too busy
                          to broach such a broad issue. First off, Jim, well-worded dilemma I think
                          it describes a phenomena with good fidelity.

                          This woman's values in a mate, physical image and wealth are understandable
                          values. Most of us can imagine someone either too ugly or too impoverished
                          to be attractive to us and I think that you acknowledge this too Jim. So
                          this girl's initial value system is at least understandable.

                          What I wonder is if it's more that she fails to see the value of intellect
                          and critical thought that bugs you. I also wonder if it isn't your critical
                          thought that's got her coming back for more from you even though you,
                          however anemically, repell her advances and if she actually DOES value
                          critical though but just hasn't been exposed to a lot of it and hasn't done
                          a lot of it herself.

                          I recommend 3 options for avenues of action.

                          1. Engage her in critical thinking often, plan it out ahead of time. Enjoy
                          opening doors of perception for another person, so long as she appreciates
                          it. But avoid having sex with her under these conditions since there is a
                          natural power imbalance and someone will get hurt or messed up.

                          2. If you really are annoyed by her, take her on a short journey through her
                          own belief system and pop the seams wherever it's convenient. Explain to
                          her why she's too thin, intellectually, for you. But if she's into some
                          no-strings sex...

                          3. If you really like her then I'd say you've gotta explain your concerns in
                          the context of the fact that your eally like her and see what she has to
                          say. Explain your philosophy and why you believe what you do, she ought to
                          volunteer hers. If you can identify the differences and are both okay with
                          them, then Rock On! If you can't, then it should be clear to you both and
                          no one should get too hurt.

                          Most of all HAVE FUN! It's the only life you get!

                          I'm no expert or anything, but that's what came to mind on my shoestring
                          budget of time.

                          Good luck and do keep us informed!!

                          Ryan the antichrist... I mean anarchist
                        • Bill Harris
                          Et, all. I have followed the conversation regarding mating habits of the north american bull existentialist. It supports my contention that breeding is a
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
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                            Et, all. I have followed the conversation regarding mating habits of the
                            north american bull existentialist. It supports my contention that breeding
                            is a hormonal exercise bereft of reason or for that matter accountability.
                            It therefore takes me to a topic which relates most directly to both the
                            intellectual diviance of sexual behavior and existentialism. That topic is
                            will. Bill
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Ryan Dewald" <rdewald@...>
                            To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:15 AM
                            Subject: RE: [existlist] Re: Existentialism and dating


                            > Greg,
                            >
                            > My condolences. Were you close?
                            >
                            > -Ryan
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: greg goodwin [mailto:ggoodwin56@...]
                            > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:20 AM
                            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Existentialism and dating
                            >
                            >
                            > Jim,
                            > Sorry about the long wait for a response but my
                            > Grandmother died sunday so I have been a bit preempted
                            > as to my regular activities.
                            > When you find this woman, see if she a twin sister
                            > for me.
                            > Greg
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                            > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                            >
                            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                            > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                          • greg goodwin
                            and tripletts quads etc. It would be nice to share with those around you. However if they would and I could I would take/fornicate all as well. Enjoy my friend
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
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                              and tripletts quads etc.
                              It would be nice to share with those around you.
                              However if they would and I could I would
                              take/fornicate all as well.
                              Enjoy my friend enjoy
                              Greg
                              --- Jim Aiden <livewild@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Greg,
                              >
                              > if she exists and has a twin, I taking the both of
                              > them.... moving to
                              > Utah... and becoming a Mormon.
                              >
                              > J.Aiden
                              >
                              > ---------------------
                              >
                              > --- In existlist@y..., greg goodwin
                              > <ggoodwin56@y...> wrote:
                              > > Jim,
                              > > Sorry about the long wait for a response but my
                              > > Grandmother died sunday so I have been a bit
                              > preempted
                              > > as to my regular activities.
                              > > When you find this woman, see if she a twin
                              > sister
                              > > for me.
                              > > Greg
                              > > --- Jim Aiden <livewild@h...> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Greg,
                              > > >
                              > > > you seem to have all the bases covered. Any
                              > woman
                              > > > left over?
                              > > >
                              > > > I prefer highly intelligent, motivated,
                              > saintly
                              > > > girls, with a
                              > > > great set of legs, a beautiful face, and a
                              > > > dedication to orally
                              > > > pleasuring me before and after cooking me
                              > dinner.
                              > > > Not asking much eh?
                              > > >
                              > > > Actually I'd 'settle' for an all right
                              > looking
                              > > > girl (if I can
                              > > > orgasm once or twice a week, it's enough) but
                              > > > someone that loves me
                              > > > to death, will stay devoted, and someone that is
                              > > > happy just being
                              > > > with and taking care of me. I guess I should
                              > add...
                              > > > I have to respect
                              > > > her.
                              > > >
                              > > > And I don't want someone that is unhappy
                              > because
                              > > > in the end I'll
                              > > > end up on rack right alongside them. Hard to
                              > find
                              > > > happy people these
                              > > > days though... especially woman. The media has
                              > > > created a nightmare of
                              > > > perfection for them to aspire to. Unfortunately,
                              > I
                              > > > noticed men seem
                              > > > to be going in the same direction. Luckily, like
                              > > > yourself, I am
                              > > > already an ideal specimen for a breeding
                              > male.....
                              > > > yeah... really...I
                              > > > think I'm falling for you... you are so
                              > beautiful...
                              > > > I love you so
                              > > > much.... sorry honey....what do you mean I'm
                              > > > judgmental... of course
                              > > > I care about you...you make no sense....keep
                              > away
                              > > > from me....I'm
                              > > > going to call the cops if you don't stop
                              > hounding
                              > > > me...
                              > > >
                              > > > Your right sometimes.... Waa-tish. Who's your
                              > > > daddy? Say it.....
                              > > > is much easier to handle.
                              > > >
                              > > > J.Aiden
                              > > >
                              > > > ---------------------------------
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In existlist@y..., greg goodwin
                              > > > <ggoodwin56@y...> wrote:
                              > > > > Jim,
                              > > > > I TRY to stay away from women that make
                              > judgments
                              > > > > based upon someone's pocketbook. I also do not
                              > > > care
                              > > > > for 'slutty' women, anyone can 'have' them,
                              > but I
                              > > > did
                              > > > > use "try" and "do not care for" but as
                              > > > hypocritical as
                              > > > > it is I have shared many a wonderful encounter
                              > > > with
                              > > > > women that fit comfortably into these types.
                              > > > > I really like the petite, girl next door type
                              > > > > although the girls next door nowadays seem to
                              > go
                              > > > into
                              > > > > one of the afore mentioned catagories.
                              > > > > I REALLY do like walks in the woods, a stroll
                              > > > down
                              > > > > the beach, a bar-b-que on the weekends with
                              > > > friends
                              > > > > and would like to find a woman that would be
                              > > > > comfortable just being with me as I am
                              > comfortable
                              > > > > being with her. Doesn't sound like much and
                              > > > indeed,
                              > > > > many seem to fill the bill, for a while then
                              > > > either I
                              > > > > or they change and life nosedives.
                              > > > > I dated a girl a little while ago and
                              > whenever we
                              > > > > were in the car was steadily holding my hand,
                              > if
                              > > > in my
                              > > > > truck our thighs weresolidly together. When we
                              > got
                              > > > out
                              > > > > of the vehicle she waited to see if I was
                              > going
                              > > > front
                              > > > > or rear and then sped to clinch my arm into
                              > both
                              > > > of
                              > > > > hers. Quite nice, really made me feel quite
                              > > > 'studly';
                              > > > > for a while then it was old very quickly,
                              > > > eventually a
                              > > > > non-mutual split occurred.
                              > > > > Your sentiments on 'bad' girls is what we all
                              > > > live
                              > > > > for, though not with, at least not for very
                              > long
                              > > > at a
                              > > > > time; but it is nice knowing you can always go
                              > > > back
                              > > > > for more when YOU get ready.
                              > > > > Girls who seem to rave on and on about things
                              > > > they
                              > > > > find important, then ask whats wrong baby,
                              > tell
                              > > > mama
                              > > > > and then when you try to speak she abruptly
                              > > > changes
                              > > > > the subject; things on your mind are not
                              > important
                              > > > to
                              > > > > her definitely are ones I leave alone.
                              > > > > Women that carry on about old relationships
                              > (How
                              > > > > great/bad someone was)leaves me quite cold.
                              > > > > I cannot stop without going into the women
                              > that
                              > > > are
                              > > > > so impressed with thenselves that you should
                              > be
                              > > > > grateful they will be seen with you (to top
                              > this
                              > > > off
                              > > > > these are usually the most average looking
                              > women,
                              > > > go
                              > > > > figure!)
                              > > > > Greg
                              > > > > --- Jim Aiden <livewild@h...> wrote:
                              > > > > > << but I know which type I no longer have
                              > time
                              > > > for>
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Greg,
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > This is probably part of my problem
                              > Greg. I
                              > > > > > understand what you
                              > > > > > mean by type but I TRY (keyword) not to
                              > create
                              > > > > > stereotypes. My mind
                              > > > > > says 'types' are just conditioning. There
                              > are
                              > > > > > simply people that
                              > > > > > have tendencies that is all. Conditioning if
                              > the
                              > > > > > will is present can
                              > > > > > be changed over time. I have found I have
                              > been
                              > > > able
                              > > > > > to do this in
                              > > > > > myself. Just like telling myself my emotions
                              > are
                              > > > > > just chemicals at
                              > > > > > work doesn't mean much in day-to-day
                              > operations.
                              >
                              === message truncated ===


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