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The Group Definitions

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  • rwr
    The Group Definitions ( this was written today for a new group which I was invited to, but the principle and questions apply equally well here. That group by
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 1, 2009
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      The Group Definitions



      ( this was written today for a new group which I was invited to, but the
      principle and questions apply equally well here. That group by the way
      is http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Primordial-Quest/
      <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Primordial-Quest/>

      You might like to give it a try. )



      I for one am more than happy with the group definitions as stated on the
      home page by the group owner. I would just like to make a few comments
      if I may on that before going into lurking mode, for I must get on with
      the new novel again now. Also for some reason there seems to be a few
      more members here now, so maybe they will get the ball rolling and I can
      go QRT :- ) I have tied to get some action going here but it sure aint
      easy.



      On the word `truth' I would just like to say that as far as I am
      concerned the truths of this or that thing, or phenomena, would be
      simply what they ARE. And it is for us to try and find out what they
      are. So, in a couple of words Truth is that which IS SO. When it comes
      to a human being making an assertions about the truths of this or that
      phenomenon, event, happening, whatever, then if they tell it as it IS
      found to be then they are telling the truth about the truths of it. If
      they have made an honest mistake and got it wrong then that is not a
      lie, it is just a mistake. But if they invented it and knowing it be a
      lie or their own invention, then it is a lie. But the only way to prove
      them WRONG is by finding that phenomena for yourself and then knowing
      what is right and wrong about what the other guy said about it. Easy
      really isn't it. No problem.



      The other point I would comment on is the one about KNOWING. If you want
      to know what it feels like and what it does when your hand goes in the
      fire then stick your hand in the fire and find out. (I did it by
      accident and it hurts and makes a mess – but it all got better soon
      enough). All the rest is hearsay. And when you hear what somebody says
      or read what they wrote then you don't know the truth of it do you.
      They may be right and they may be wrong and they may be lying. So, stick
      your hand in the fire and find out. To know OF something by way of
      hearsay is not the same thing as KNOWING by way of having lived though
      experiencing that things. Beliefs and hearsay are not KNOWING, they are
      beliefs and hearsay. They may be right and they may be wrong, and it is
      up to you to experience that thing and find out for yourself.



      As for the experiential event known as the Mystic Death and Resurrection
      event and that sacred ground of being fund therein, then all that is
      easy enough to describe and talk about it – after you have known it.
      To talk about before knowing it is utterly impossible, for one could not
      even imagine it. So, once again, no problem.



      Anyway, I must get on with the second novel now. It makes a nice change
      writing a fiction novel after near on a lifetime of writing non fiction.



      Dick.





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • shadowed_statue
      Dick, Your presence here is often a great tonic. You care a great deal about life, but show no discernible interest at all in philosophy. I m sorry that such
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 1, 2009
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        Dick,

        Your presence here is often a great tonic. You care a great deal about life, but show no discernible interest at all in philosophy. I'm sorry that such riotous wisdom and unconscious truth-telling as you display is accompanied by such uncomprehending paternalism when it comes to the kind of book-learning that is not to your taste. Please respect our site. Thank you.

        Louise

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "rwr" <dick.richardson@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > The Group Definitions
        >
        >
        >
        > ( this was written today for a new group which I was invited to, but the
        > principle and questions apply equally well here. That group by the way
        > is http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Primordial-Quest/
        > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Primordial-Quest/>
        >
        > You might like to give it a try. )
        >
        >
        >
        > I for one am more than happy with the group definitions as stated on the
        > home page by the group owner. I would just like to make a few comments
        > if I may on that before going into lurking mode, for I must get on with
        > the new novel again now. Also for some reason there seems to be a few
        > more members here now, so maybe they will get the ball rolling and I can
        > go QRT :- ) I have tied to get some action going here but it sure aint
        > easy.
        >
        >
        >
        > On the word `truth' I would just like to say that as far as I am
        > concerned the truths of this or that thing, or phenomena, would be
        > simply what they ARE. And it is for us to try and find out what they
        > are. So, in a couple of words Truth is that which IS SO. When it comes
        > to a human being making an assertions about the truths of this or that
        > phenomenon, event, happening, whatever, then if they tell it as it IS
        > found to be then they are telling the truth about the truths of it. If
        > they have made an honest mistake and got it wrong then that is not a
        > lie, it is just a mistake. But if they invented it and knowing it be a
        > lie or their own invention, then it is a lie. But the only way to prove
        > them WRONG is by finding that phenomena for yourself and then knowing
        > what is right and wrong about what the other guy said about it. Easy
        > really isn't it. No problem.
        >
        >
        >
        > The other point I would comment on is the one about KNOWING. If you want
        > to know what it feels like and what it does when your hand goes in the
        > fire then stick your hand in the fire and find out. (I did it by
        > accident and it hurts and makes a mess – but it all got better soon
        > enough). All the rest is hearsay. And when you hear what somebody says
        > or read what they wrote then you don't know the truth of it do you.
        > They may be right and they may be wrong and they may be lying. So, stick
        > your hand in the fire and find out. To know OF something by way of
        > hearsay is not the same thing as KNOWING by way of having lived though
        > experiencing that things. Beliefs and hearsay are not KNOWING, they are
        > beliefs and hearsay. They may be right and they may be wrong, and it is
        > up to you to experience that thing and find out for yourself.
        >
        >
        >
        > As for the experiential event known as the Mystic Death and Resurrection
        > event and that sacred ground of being fund therein, then all that is
        > easy enough to describe and talk about it – after you have known it.
        > To talk about before knowing it is utterly impossible, for one could not
        > even imagine it. So, once again, no problem.
        >
        >
        >
        > Anyway, I must get on with the second novel now. It makes a nice change
        > writing a fiction novel after near on a lifetime of writing non fiction.
        >
        >
        >
        > Dick.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • rwr
        I did all the religions, all the philosophies and all the philosophers from Socrates to Wittgenstein and back again long before you were born. It is all old
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 1, 2009
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          I did all the religions, all the philosophies and all the philosophers
          from Socrates to Wittgenstein and back again long before you were born.
          It is all old hat. Don't assume to tell me or other people what they or
          I am interested in and what I have been interested in. For heaven sake
          write your own stuff and just get on with it. If you have got a brain
          then use it and do your own thing.



          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shadowed_statue" <hecubatoher@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Dick,
          >
          > Your presence here is often a great tonic. You care a great deal about
          life, but show no discernible interest at all in philosophy. I'm sorry
          that such riotous wisdom and unconscious truth-telling as you display is
          accompanied by such uncomprehending paternalism when it comes to the
          kind of book-learning that is not to your taste. Please respect our
          site. Thank you.
          >
          > Louise



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • shadowed_statue
          Dick, Dick, Please quit lecturing me. I am the kind of existentialist you do not recognise. That much is abundantly obvious. Otherwise, I take note of what
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 1, 2009
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            Dick,

            Dick,

            Please quit lecturing me. I am the kind of existentialist you do not recognise. That much is abundantly obvious. Otherwise, I take note of what you are saying. I have never thought you a fool, but you address me as though I were a fool. I am not.

            Louise

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "rwr" <dick.richardson@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I did all the religions, all the philosophies and all the philosophers
            > from Socrates to Wittgenstein and back again long before you were born.
            > It is all old hat. Don't assume to tell me or other people what they or
            > I am interested in and what I have been interested in. For heaven sake
            > write your own stuff and just get on with it. If you have got a brain
            > then use it and do your own thing.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shadowed_statue" <hecubatoher@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Dick,
            > >
            > > Your presence here is often a great tonic. You care a great deal about
            > life, but show no discernible interest at all in philosophy. I'm sorry
            > that such riotous wisdom and unconscious truth-telling as you display is
            > accompanied by such uncomprehending paternalism when it comes to the
            > kind of book-learning that is not to your taste. Please respect our
            > site. Thank you.
            > >
            > > Louise
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • shadowed_statue
            sorry about the typo. the hour is late, and all that.
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 1, 2009
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              sorry about the typo. the hour is late, and all that.

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shadowed_statue" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dick,
              >
              > Dick,
              >
              > Please quit lecturing me. I am the kind of existentialist you do not recognise. That much is abundantly obvious. Otherwise, I take note of what you are saying. I have never thought you a fool, but you address me as though I were a fool. I am not.
              >
              > Louise
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "rwr" <dick.richardson@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > I did all the religions, all the philosophies and all the philosophers
              > > from Socrates to Wittgenstein and back again long before you were born.
              > > It is all old hat. Don't assume to tell me or other people what they or
              > > I am interested in and what I have been interested in. For heaven sake
              > > write your own stuff and just get on with it. If you have got a brain
              > > then use it and do your own thing.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shadowed_statue" <hecubatoher@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Dick,
              > > >
              > > > Your presence here is often a great tonic. You care a great deal about
              > > life, but show no discernible interest at all in philosophy. I'm sorry
              > > that such riotous wisdom and unconscious truth-telling as you display is
              > > accompanied by such uncomprehending paternalism when it comes to the
              > > kind of book-learning that is not to your taste. Please respect our
              > > site. Thank you.
              > > >
              > > > Louise
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • rwr
              You reap what you sow my dear. If you give the impression to people of being not only foolish but also very confrontational and bigoted then they will treat
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 1, 2009
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                You reap what you sow my dear. If you give the impression to people of
                being not only foolish but also very confrontational and bigoted then
                they will treat you like it. It is called feed-back. Why not stop
                talking about what I do and what I say and get on with your own doing
                and saying. You have a life don't you? So fine, live it and be you. Do
                not worry about me, for I don't. I have never worrie bayt e nor what
                people think about me. It is me that has to live with me. And I can live
                with it ok.


                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shadowed_statue" <hecubatoher@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Dick,
                >
                > Dick,
                >
                > Please quit lecturing me. I am the kind of existentialist you do not
                recognise. That much is abundantly obvious. Otherwise, I take note of
                what you are saying. I have never thought you a fool, but you address me
                as though I were a fool. I am not.
                >
                > Louise




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • shadowed_statue
                Dick, I was not addressing people, I was addressing you. It is hardly feed-back if you invent it. I respond to your comments because that is the way I am,
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 1, 2009
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                  Dick,

                  I was not addressing people, I was addressing you. It is hardly feed-back if you invent it. I respond to your comments because that is the way I am, apt to emotional investment. I am not worrying about you, only attempting communication. Anyway, yes, I am living my life, and keen to see an end to these rather farcical manoeuvres.

                  Louise

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "rwr" <dick.richardson@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > You reap what you sow my dear. If you give the impression to people of
                  > being not only foolish but also very confrontational and bigoted then
                  > they will treat you like it. It is called feed-back. Why not stop
                  > talking about what I do and what I say and get on with your own doing
                  > and saying. You have a life don't you? So fine, live it and be you. Do
                  > not worry about me, for I don't. I have never worrie bayt e nor what
                  > people think about me. It is me that has to live with me. And I can live
                  > with it ok.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shadowed_statue" <hecubatoher@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dick,
                  > >
                  > > Dick,
                  > >
                  > > Please quit lecturing me. I am the kind of existentialist you do not
                  > recognise. That much is abundantly obvious. Otherwise, I take note of
                  > what you are saying. I have never thought you a fool, but you address me
                  > as though I were a fool. I am not.
                  > >
                  > > Louise
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • rwr
                  Well, it would seem to me that these farcical manoeuvres are of your own imagination. I come on here, write stuff, say things, make claims about this and
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 1, 2009
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                    Well, it would seem to me that these "farcical manoeuvres" are
                    of your own imagination. I come on here, write stuff, say things, make
                    claims about this and that which I have discovered in life – and you
                    can do the same. Nobody is stopping you, and there is not even any
                    moderation being done on this group. You may not be worrying about me
                    but you keep harping on about me – as I said before, why don't
                    you just get on with your own stuff and talk about YOUR life experience
                    and leave me to do the same?



                    What do you want from me for heaven sakes? I would be interested to
                    hear what you have to say, but you don't say anything, you just keep
                    on criticising me. If there is something specify you wish to talk to me
                    about then I would be happy to do so, so long as I know anything about
                    it. So, dot come asking me about gardening, cooking, fly fishing or the
                    mating habits of greenfly's for I don't know damn all about any
                    of them. So what is it you want to talk about? If you want to write
                    about your understanding of what you are calling existential then just
                    do it. But one mere strand within a vast spectrum of philosophy and
                    human life experience does not blow my skirt up. So, what do want from
                    me? Shall I not even bother to answer you when you address me? Would
                    that help? Just tell me what it is that you want? There is nothing that
                    I want from you. But if you had something to say it woud be nice to read
                    it.

                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shadowed_statue" <hecubatoher@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Dick,
                    >
                    > I was not addressing people, I was addressing you. It is hardly
                    feed-back if you invent it. I respond to your comments because that is
                    the way I am, apt to emotional investment. I am not worrying about you,
                    only attempting communication. Anyway, yes, I am living my life, and
                    keen to see an end to these rather farcical manoeuvres.
                    >
                    > Louise
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • shadowed_statue
                    Dick, You ask, what do I want from you? The answer is simple. Respect the list. I find some of your comments offensive, i.e., disrespectful to the owners.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 2, 2009
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                      Dick,

                      You ask, what do I want from you? The answer is simple. Respect the list. I find some of your comments offensive, i.e., disrespectful to the owners. Yes, there probably is an end of interchange. Your "pragmatic existentialism" is not easy to discern, now that I am returning to a more rigorous thought. To change the world is an almost delusory idea, however common it is in certain quarters. I have allowed my liking for you as an individual to cloud my philosophic judgment of your ideas. Which are vague. At least the way you present them here. Of course, I am a social dissident, which is another way of saying, ill-mannered. Now that I have seen what I have seen, I think a case may be made out for bad manners. Earn your place at the list, or leave.

                      Louise

                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "rwr" <dick.richardson@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, it would seem to me that these "farcical manoeuvres" are
                      > of your own imagination. I come on here, write stuff, say things, make
                      > claims about this and that which I have discovered in life – and you
                      > can do the same. Nobody is stopping you, and there is not even any
                      > moderation being done on this group. You may not be worrying about me
                      > but you keep harping on about me – as I said before, why don't
                      > you just get on with your own stuff and talk about YOUR life experience
                      > and leave me to do the same?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > What do you want from me for heaven sakes? I would be interested to
                      > hear what you have to say, but you don't say anything, you just keep
                      > on criticising me. If there is something specify you wish to talk to me
                      > about then I would be happy to do so, so long as I know anything about
                      > it. So, dot come asking me about gardening, cooking, fly fishing or the
                      > mating habits of greenfly's for I don't know damn all about any
                      > of them. So what is it you want to talk about? If you want to write
                      > about your understanding of what you are calling existential then just
                      > do it. But one mere strand within a vast spectrum of philosophy and
                      > human life experience does not blow my skirt up. So, what do want from
                      > me? Shall I not even bother to answer you when you address me? Would
                      > that help? Just tell me what it is that you want? There is nothing that
                      > I want from you. But if you had something to say it woud be nice to read
                      > it.
                      >
                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shadowed_statue" <hecubatoher@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Dick,
                      > >
                      > > I was not addressing people, I was addressing you. It is hardly
                      > feed-back if you invent it. I respond to your comments because that is
                      > the way I am, apt to emotional investment. I am not worrying about you,
                      > only attempting communication. Anyway, yes, I am living my life, and
                      > keen to see an end to these rather farcical manoeuvres.
                      > >
                      > > Louise
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • rwr
                      Huh you remind me of song which we used to sing back in the early fifties in the boozers pubs in London – Strange Lady in Town. When it comes to exchange on
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 2, 2009
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                        Huh you remind me of song which we used to sing back in the early
                        fifties in the boozers pubs in London – Strange Lady in Town. When
                        it comes to exchange on this group then these guys are pussycats in
                        wolves clothing. Maybe you are a bit out of your league and depth in
                        this playground. If you want, nay, demand, respect Lady Groan then you
                        must earn it. Do you know anything at all about respect? Do you know
                        anything at all about love? Do you know anything at all about passion
                        which destroys? Do you know anything at all about LIFE? Do you know
                        anything at all about your SELF ?



                        As for your narrow and minimal nous of the real existential self of the
                        I AM at the root of your being then do you have any idea what that
                        really is and how and where it is found? Would you like me to tell you
                        in a short staccato no circumbendibus manner? Are you ready for it? If
                        you were then you would have found it, and IT would have found you. But
                        in order to know what you are then you must journewt accross the River
                        Styx and die on the far bank and forget everything that you ever knew.
                        Are you ready for it? Do you want to know what the world and objectivity
                        is? To know what it is you have to die and forget everything you ever
                        knew – and the come back here again – anew. Are you ready for
                        that trip accross the Styx via Hades which culminates in Annihilation?
                        And then that which lays beyond annihilation in the primal birth of your
                        being, in the realm of the unchanging I AM.



                        This is all bullshit you are probably thinking? Think on Lady Groan,
                        think on. For one day thinking will end, and only then will you know.
                        Only when you have had everything you know and remember taken awaay from
                        you can you then know what you are and from whence you come and why you
                        exist. Are you ready for that? Or would it be better for you to learn
                        in very small doses over many years, maybe many lifetimes whilst
                        remaining in a shadow status?



                        I have just given you, in words only, the greatest gem of wisdom in
                        existance, the jewel in the crown of all existance. YOU. One day you
                        will find that what you heard here today is correct. Until then, do what
                        you feel you must do. But best not judge me until you know YOU.



                        Dick the Guru buster.





                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shadowed_statue" <hecubatoher@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Dick,
                        >
                        > You ask, what do I want from you? The answer is simple. Respect the
                        list. I find some of your comments offensive, i.e., disrespectful to the
                        owners. Yes, there probably is an end of interchange. Your "pragmatic
                        existentialism" is not easy to discern, now that I am returning to a
                        more rigorous thought. To change the world is an almost delusory idea,
                        however common it is in certain quarters. I have allowed my liking for
                        you as an individual to cloud my philosophic judgment of your ideas.
                        Which are vague. At least the way you present them here. Of course, I am
                        a social dissident, which is another way of saying, ill-mannered. Now
                        that I have seen what I have seen, I think a case may be made out for
                        bad manners. Earn your place at the list, or leave.
                        >
                        > Louise



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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