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Re: [existlist] Response

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  • tom
    Hi Bill, It s interesting that both liberals and libertarians claim Jefferson as 1 of them,and both can point to many statements of his as verification.
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 28, 2009
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      Hi Bill,

      It's interesting that both liberals and libertarians claim Jefferson as 1 of them,and both can point to many statements of his as verification. Jefferson like liberals feared the power of .money and corporations; but like libertarians also feared the power of government expanding. It's like the saying between the devil and the deep blue sea. Ostensibly, goverment expansion tends to level the playing field, but libertarians maintain government is such a whore of moneyed interest, that more often than not the long term affect is the rich getting richer as they own more and more of the politicians.I heard a radio announcer say that politicians should have the names of their sponsors shown like NASCAR drivers do on their cars.

      Tom
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: bhvwd
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM
      Subject: [existlist] Response


      Tom, It seems change is the only norm .Stasis might be possible in an infinite universe but in a finite cosmos change is the only situation.
      Attempting to enforce stasis only increases chaos. A royal family for example attempts to stop change so they can remain in power. Jefferson understood this situation and was loath to allow dynastic families. The rich will spend money to resist change. Most wish to position their children to continue wealth. The rich are only concerned with the poor when the rich can no longer control the poor. We were approaching that posibility when Jeffersons idea of political revolution took hold with the last election.
      Now the rich insurance companies and newly beholding banks drag their heels and attempt to retard change. They spend money to suspend time and act as autocrats to preserve their priviledged positions. The only retort to such people is increasing the dose of democracy until their funds are depleated and their dynastic ends are unfulfilled.
      Ten percent of the workers are slipping into the lower class. Bush destroyed their middle class lives. Some who think they are rich, or might become rich, slip over to the dynastic side. They like to be called blue dogs or conservative democrats. The administration has finally redefined the health care part of change as Insurance reform.Let the physcal conservatives cleave to their pocketbooks and forget the ideologue rhetoric . Most of the kings are gone because change eroded their systems. Those who sided with them because of monitary or racist or religous grounds might look to the diminished middle class and position themselves for survival. Bill





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bhvwd
      ... Louise, How about The existential stretch of sciatica as a title to get the remedy published. Does the pamphlet have ancient cures like ode de toad? I
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 28, 2009
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        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Bill,
        >
        > It's interesting that both liberals and libertarians claim Jefferson as 1 of them,and both can point to many statements of his as verification. Jefferson like liberals feared the power of .money and corporations; but like libertarians also feared the power of government expanding. It's like the saying between the devil and the deep blue sea. Ostensibly, goverment expansion tends to level the playing field, but libertarians maintain government is such a whore of moneyed interest, that more often than not the long term affect is the rich getting richer as they own more and more of the politicians.I heard a radio announcer say that politicians should have the names of their sponsors shown like NASCAR drivers do on their cars.
        >
        > Tom
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: bhvwd
        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM
        > Subject: [existlist] Response
        > Tom, I might like politicians to be simple numbers. You vote for candidate Jones and if victorious he becomes Sen. 8. The office will remain No. 8 no matter who occupies the office. I think it would enhance their personal security. He would be unlisted and unpublished at home but his mail would be scanned for cash and checks. His wife would be polygraphed once a week with the results published in Vogue.
        Louise, How about "The existential stretch of sciatica" as a title to get the remedy published. Does the pamphlet have ancient cures like ode de toad? I will try anything. If you mention sciatica they often think you a malingerer. Therefore sneaking it in on an existential site might be just the thing. Bill
        >
        > Tom, It seems change is the only norm .Stasis might be possible in an infinite universe but in a finite cosmos change is the only situation.
        > Attempting to enforce stasis only increases chaos. A royal family for example attempts to stop change so they can remain in power. Jefferson understood this situation and was loath to allow dynastic families. The rich will spend money to resist change. Most wish to position their children to continue wealth. The rich are only concerned with the poor when the rich can no longer control the poor. We were approaching that posibility when Jeffersons idea of political revolution took hold with the last election.
        > Now the rich insurance companies and newly beholding banks drag their heels and attempt to retard change. They spend money to suspend time and act as autocrats to preserve their priviledged positions. The only retort to such people is increasing the dose of democracy until their funds are depleated and their dynastic ends are unfulfilled.
        > Ten percent of the workers are slipping into the lower class. Bush destroyed their middle class lives. Some who think they are rich, or might become rich, slip over to the dynastic side. They like to be called blue dogs or conservative democrats. The administration has finally redefined the health care part of change as Insurance reform.Let the physcal conservatives cleave to their pocketbooks and forget the ideologue rhetoric . Most of the kings are gone because change eroded their systems. Those who sided with them because of monitary or racist or religous grounds might look to the diminished middle class and position themselves for survival. Bill
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • tom
        Bill, Of course, the Catch 22 of your idea and most ideas that might lead toward a more, efficient, honest government are that the people who would have to
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 28, 2009
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          Bill,

          Of course, the Catch 22 of your idea and most ideas that might lead toward a more, efficient, honest government are that the people who would have to vote for the changes are the ones who are benefiting from the bogus system that is. Interestingly, the Scandilavian countries seem to have by far the most honest governments according to all accounts.There is a rating made by people who do a good bit of international business about relative corruption in government among nations. On a scale of 0 to 10, the Scandinavian countries are usually in the 9s,Somalia at bootom below 2, and the US a tad over 7. Soros says the greatest cause of world poverty is coruption in government.

          Tom
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: bhvwd
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:03 PM
          Subject: [existlist] Re: Response


          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Bill,
          >
          > It's interesting that both liberals and libertarians claim Jefferson as 1 of them,and both can point to many statements of his as verification. Jefferson like liberals feared the power of .money and corporations; but like libertarians also feared the power of government expanding. It's like the saying between the devil and the deep blue sea. Ostensibly, goverment expansion tends to level the playing field, but libertarians maintain government is such a whore of moneyed interest, that more often than not the long term affect is the rich getting richer as they own more and more of the politicians.I heard a radio announcer say that politicians should have the names of their sponsors shown like NASCAR drivers do on their cars.
          >
          > Tom
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: bhvwd
          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM
          > Subject: [existlist] Response
          > Tom, I might like politicians to be simple numbers. You vote for candidate Jones and if victorious he becomes Sen. 8. The office will remain No. 8 no matter who occupies the office. I think it would enhance their personal security. He would be unlisted and unpublished at home but his mail would be scanned for cash and checks. His wife would be polygraphed once a week with the results published in Vogue.
          Louise, How about "The existential stretch of sciatica" as a title to get the remedy published. Does the pamphlet have ancient cures like ode de toad? I will try anything. If you mention sciatica they often think you a malingerer. Therefore sneaking it in on an existential site might be just the thing. Bill
          >
          > Tom, It seems change is the only norm .Stasis might be possible in an infinite universe but in a finite cosmos change is the only situation.
          > Attempting to enforce stasis only increases chaos. A royal family for example attempts to stop change so they can remain in power. Jefferson understood this situation and was loath to allow dynastic families. The rich will spend money to resist change. Most wish to position their children to continue wealth. The rich are only concerned with the poor when the rich can no longer control the poor. We were approaching that posibility when Jeffersons idea of political revolution took hold with the last election.
          > Now the rich insurance companies and newly beholding banks drag their heels and attempt to retard change. They spend money to suspend time and act as autocrats to preserve their priviledged positions. The only retort to such people is increasing the dose of democracy until their funds are depleated and their dynastic ends are unfulfilled.
          > Ten percent of the workers are slipping into the lower class. Bush destroyed their middle class lives. Some who think they are rich, or might become rich, slip over to the dynastic side. They like to be called blue dogs or conservative democrats. The administration has finally redefined the health care part of change as Insurance reform.Let the physcal conservatives cleave to their pocketbooks and forget the ideologue rhetoric . Most of the kings are gone because change eroded their systems. Those who sided with them because of monitary or racist or religous grounds might look to the diminished middle class and position themselves for survival. Bill
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • tom
          Bill, Musolini allegedly said that the Fascist Party had no fixed ideology except taking over Italy. That seems to be the dominant paradigm among rulers. It
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 28, 2009
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            Bill,

            Musolini allegedly said that the Fascist Party had no fixed ideology except taking over Italy. That seems to be the dominant paradigm among rulers. It fits in with what Machiavelli said. Machiavelli was a political operative like say Dick Morris or Carl Rove. The family Machiavelli was allied with fell out of power, and Machiavelli tried to align with another family but failed. Then he retired to write his books, which were not published till after his death. Morris got fired for involvement in a call girl scandal by Clinton, and a few years later he had allied with the Fox News Hannity guys.If Machiavelli had been able to do that, we wouldnt have the "Prince".
            Machiavelli said that a prince can be kind, generous, etc as long as it doesnt conflict with him putting the maintaining and gaining of power number one. If he puts other values above power, someone who holds power as number one will take it from him.

            Tom


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: bhvwd
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:03 PM
            Subject: [existlist] Re: Response


            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Bill,
            >
            > It's interesting that both liberals and libertarians claim Jefferson as 1 of them,and both can point to many statements of his as verification. Jefferson like liberals feared the power of .money and corporations; but like libertarians also feared the power of government expanding. It's like the saying between the devil and the deep blue sea. Ostensibly, goverment expansion tends to level the playing field, but libertarians maintain government is such a whore of moneyed interest, that more often than not the long term affect is the rich getting richer as they own more and more of the politicians.I heard a radio announcer say that politicians should have the names of their sponsors shown like NASCAR drivers do on their cars.
            >
            > Tom
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: bhvwd
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM
            > Subject: [existlist] Response
            > Tom, I might like politicians to be simple numbers. You vote for candidate Jones and if victorious he becomes Sen. 8. The office will remain No. 8 no matter who occupies the office. I think it would enhance their personal security. He would be unlisted and unpublished at home but his mail would be scanned for cash and checks. His wife would be polygraphed once a week with the results published in Vogue.
            Louise, How about "The existential stretch of sciatica" as a title to get the remedy published. Does the pamphlet have ancient cures like ode de toad? I will try anything. If you mention sciatica they often think you a malingerer. Therefore sneaking it in on an existential site might be just the thing. Bill
            >
            > Tom, It seems change is the only norm .Stasis might be possible in an infinite universe but in a finite cosmos change is the only situation.
            > Attempting to enforce stasis only increases chaos. A royal family for example attempts to stop change so they can remain in power. Jefferson understood this situation and was loath to allow dynastic families. The rich will spend money to resist change. Most wish to position their children to continue wealth. The rich are only concerned with the poor when the rich can no longer control the poor. We were approaching that posibility when Jeffersons idea of political revolution took hold with the last election.
            > Now the rich insurance companies and newly beholding banks drag their heels and attempt to retard change. They spend money to suspend time and act as autocrats to preserve their priviledged positions. The only retort to such people is increasing the dose of democracy until their funds are depleated and their dynastic ends are unfulfilled.
            > Ten percent of the workers are slipping into the lower class. Bush destroyed their middle class lives. Some who think they are rich, or might become rich, slip over to the dynastic side. They like to be called blue dogs or conservative democrats. The administration has finally redefined the health care part of change as Insurance reform.Let the physcal conservatives cleave to their pocketbooks and forget the ideologue rhetoric . Most of the kings are gone because change eroded their systems. Those who sided with them because of monitary or racist or religous grounds might look to the diminished middle class and position themselves for survival. Bill
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • louise
            ... Bill, I scarcely know how to respond to such a poetical idea. The physicality of the body is certainly intrinsic to existence as we know it, yet the
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 29, 2009
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:

              > Louise, How about "The existential stretch of sciatica" as a title
              > to get the remedy published. Does the pamphlet have ancient cures
              > like ode de toad? I will try anything. If you mention sciatica they
              > often think you a malingerer. Therefore sneaking it in on an
              > existential site might be just the thing. Bill

              Bill, I scarcely know how to respond to such a poetical idea. The physicality of the body is certainly intrinsic to existence as we know it, yet the particular application of philosophical thought to the dilemmas of human-being seems to me not readily connected to the realities of bodily pain and disablement. In practical terms, simply, I find relief by applying techniques of spinal extension - lie face down on the floor, palms down at shoulder level, fingers forward, and arch the body backwards gently but firmly, keeping pelvis and legs resting flat. Repeat ten times, then relax. Perform as required during the day. This exercise was taught me by a professional physiotherapist. In addition, pay attention to posture when sitting, get up and walk around at regular intervals, stretch, that sort of basic precaution. Helps me, anyway. The book itself is readily available on the internet: "The Sciatica Handbook", by Bill Habets. Somehow, if he is still reading us, I picture Wil shaking his head at this improbable recommendation of text. Yet it does seem true to the spirit of this list, which attracted my interest from the start, that the specificity of everyday experience is the context in which thinking takes place, and makes its recurrent demand, that thought be recognisably individual, and free of the false luxuries of mere abstraction. I simply do not understand "existential stretch". It is clearly, however, not abstract. Possibly a revelation to come. Louise
            • tom
              Bill, You wrote a while back. Ten percent of the workers are slipping into the lower class. Bush destroyed their middle class lives. Some who think they are
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 1, 2009
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                Bill,

                You wrote a while back.

                Ten percent of the workers are slipping into the lower class. Bush destroyed their middle class lives. Some who think they are rich, or might become rich, slip over to the dynastic side. They like to be called blue dogs or conservative democrats. The administration has finally redefined the health care part of change as Insurance reform.Let the physcal conservatives cleave to their pocketbooks and forget the ideologue rhetoric . Most of the kings are gone because change eroded their systems. Those who sided with them because of monitary or racist or religous grounds might look to the diminished middle class and position themselves for survival. Bill

                Reagan expanded the base of the Republican Party by adding the Christian right. Before Reagan, many of them had avoided politics, thinking correctly that politics is evil, and some voted Democratic. Politics makes strange bedfellows.When Goldwater retired from the senate in late 80s, he said his party was being taken over by kooks. However, those kooks made the difference between his big defeat in 64 and Reagan's big wins in 80 and 84, You have the fiscal conservatives, the social conservatives, and the pro war conservatives. Before ww2, Republicans were the ones wanting to avoid a European conflict. Bob Taft was the opposite of a DickCheney regarding war.

                Peace,
                Tom


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • bhvwd
                Tom, Your delineation of three republican types has merit. There is great irony in that political alliance. Eisenhower , the top warrior of the last century,
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 1, 2009
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                  Tom, Your delineation of three republican types has merit. There is great irony in that political alliance. Eisenhower , the top warrior of the last century, jumped ship and warned us of the existence of the military industrial complex. That brand of republican remains, sucking up our national resources at a rate we do not even attempt to control. They are reactionary in the most base sense of the term.
                  Robert Taft was a reaction to FDR,to his new deal. I understand Taft's statue is the only one of a senator in DC. On the surface he was reacting to socialism but he did not wish to waste money on ordinary people.
                  How the hell that can be dovetailed with social conservativism escapes me. The dumb bible pounders gore their own ox with their commitment to high defense budgets and crushing domestic progressive programs. They are the ignorant flux that joined the hard capitalists with the warrior military. Some, like Goldwater, saw the error of relying on a nut fringe to hinge a major political party. Reagan and Nixon were win at all cost pragmatists. I applaud them as ruthless politicians but decry them as racist and classist pigs.
                  I sincerely hope the tripartite coalition is spent. The military remains unscathed but business and the nut fringe are badly wounded by the neocon debacle. With hope peeking around the corner reasonable progressives need point to the cruel usage of lower class believers. If we must wrap their welfare in jesus bullshit so be it. We need them as a lubricant to push us back to a reasonable center. Just hold your nose and think of better times. Bill
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