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RE: [existlist] Re: Loonies on the path

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  • chris lofting
    ... ;-) this reflects a property of mediation - hitting paradox and so not able to totally cut what one considers a whole from a more complex, if but
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 6, 2009
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      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mary.josie59
      > Sent: Saturday, 7 February 2009 3:11 PM
      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [existlist] Re: Loonies on the path
      >
      > Bill, just this morning read these words of Camus. They seem
      > appropriate. Mary
      >
      > "Conscious of not being able to separate myself from my time,
      > I have decided to become part of it."
      >

      ;-) this reflects a property of mediation - hitting paradox and so not able
      to totally 'cut' what one considers a 'whole' from a more complex, if but
      vague, whole; as such we cover metonymy vs metaphor. The focus on the static
      will reduce to a point and in doing so hit upon the sensation of the
      'infinite' - the inability to find a 'cut' other than one that is subjective
      and in being subjective is not considered as 'true' (where 'truth' is
      associated with symmetry and 'oneness'!). To experience this inability to
      totally 'cut' from a complex pattern, see the sensory paradox examples in
      http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/paradox.html where the infinite
      oscillations possible reflect this cutting issue.

      > "For those who feel solidarity with the world's destiny, the
      > clash of civilizations has something anguishing about it. I
      > have made that anguish my own and at the same time wished to
      > play my role...Once must choose between action and contemplation."
      >
      >

      "Free will" presents in the form of choices and they not as ideal, as
      universals, but as local context sensitivities. Using universals LOCALLY can
      aid in some local political dynamic but over the long run a more
      context-sensitive approach is favoured. Thus analytical negation ('born
      again') applies locally, dialectical negation ('keep the good bits') applies
      globally.

      The determinism inherent in genetically-determined species has developed
      over a considerable timespan and covers the 'natural' response to living in
      a thermodynamic universe - conservation of energy 'rules' and so a bias to
      symmetry overall. Included in the determinism is 'purpose', all due to the
      natural consequence of deriving meaning etc within a closed system in that
      all that is possible is covered in the development of the neurology and its
      sensory systems and so covers 'beginnings' and 'endings' - the recursion
      involved (mapped to self-referencing and so self-organising systems) encodes
      all categories within each and so encodes a 'purpose' element. It is this
      element that such social typologies as the MBTI or HBDI or 'big-5' etc etc
      pick up and the analysis of these methodologies moves us into in-depth
      mappings of 'purpose' in each of us as members of neuron-dependent species.

      The FAILURE of such rigid 'hard coding' is manifest in the development of
      consciousness and so the emergence of our SINGULAR being, our unique self as
      an agent of mediation. This development covers pressures on the mechanistic
      nature of recursion where, given DEPTH in that development, a teleological
      element emerges in the form of 'purpose' and on into the ability of a
      self-referencing system, an autopeiotic system, to describe itself and so
      elicit the use of analogy/metaphor for mediation/communication.

      What emerges from this activity are such dichotomies as being/doing,
      static/dynamic, object/relationships etc etc where the recursion of these
      will elicit a dimension of classes of meaning usable to represent 'all that
      is possible' given the bounds of the dichotomies. What is immediately
      noticeable is an emerging issue of PRECISION, of resolution power, and with
      that a focus on the dynamics of positive/negative feedback.

      Repeated reductionism limits what is encapsulated by the positive feedback
      in that within what has been encapsulated is negative feedback holding
      things together - until one reduces to a point whereupon the definition of
      'negative feedback' is lost since it cannot reduce to the dimensionless,
      there must be some form of dimensionality present for 'negative feedback' to
      apply.

      Moving into the realm of the dimensionless covers the emergence of
      infinities where such reflect an inability to reduce the dimensional to the
      dimensionless in that the 'perfection' associated with a closed-system,
      symmetry-grounded, topological perspective is not represent able other than
      through irrational means (i.e. the infinite mantissa of irrational numbers
      bring out the inability to reduce to 'points' - we are faced with the use of
      rounding of values and so the contribution of the SUBJECTIVE at this level
      of precision).

      There is a tie here of infinity with 'oneness' and so coverage of a closed
      system. OTOH the act of mediation involved introduces an asymmetric element
      in the form of consciousness as language and so open system dynamics. Here
      we note that mediation is grounded in uncertainty such that all languages,
      when considered from a meta-language perspective, are naturally
      'incomplete'. What THIS leads to is the realisation that to maintain an
      asymmetric position one has to keep talking and storing all of that 'off
      line' to then be taught to others; if one decides to stop, if one has had
      enough of the perpetual production of prose, one has surrendered to the
      symmetric, to energy conservation and social commitment. This CAN be
      beneficial in that the period of mediation and so of serial-dominated
      dynamics, should have refined one's intuition and so given one a good set of
      skills to live by with little need for mediation; all is parallel, all is
      stimulus-response, the life of an instincts/habits driven life form tied to
      'routine' (a necessary physiological development where loss of huge amounts
      of neurons as we age are covered by the routines we have learnt)

      BUT there is still the need for more analysis, more mediation, and so
      development of languages, re-development of languages; as some surrender to
      symmetry so their works prior to such contribute to the overall perspective
      offered by the language. Their lives after such reflect the degree of
      internalisation of the language in the form of refined instincts/habits and
      so patterns to live by 'intuitively'.

      So - keep writing dudes - existentialism depends on it!

      Chris
      http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/AbstractDomain.html
    • eupraxis@aol.com
      This reflects your monomania and your obnoxious narcissism. You are more like a stalker than a member here. Wil ... ************** Nothing says I love you like
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 7, 2009
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        This reflects your monomania and your obnoxious narcissism. You are more like
        a stalker than a member here.

        Wil

        In a message dated 2/6/09 11:25:57 PM, lofting@... writes:


        > ;-) this reflects a property of mediation - hitting paradox and so not able
        > to totally 'cut' what one considers a 'whole' from a more complex, if but
        > vague, whole; as such we cover metonymy vs metaphor. The focus on the static
        > will reduce to a point and in doing so hit upon the sensation of the
        > 'infinite' - the inability to find a 'cut' other than one that is subjective
        > and in being subjective is not considered as 'true' (where 'truth' is
        > associated with symmetry and 'oneness'!). To experience this inability to
        > totally 'cut' from a complex pattern, see the sensory paradox examples in
        > http://members.http://membehttp://membehttp://membershttp where the infinite
        > oscillations possible reflect this cutting issue.
        >
        > > "For those who feel solidarity with the world's destiny, the
        > > clash of civilizations has something anguishing about it. I
        > > have made that anguish my own and at the same time wished to
        > > play my role...Once must choose between action and contemplation.
        > >
        > >
        >
        > "Free will" presents in the form of choices and they not as ideal, as
        > universals, but as local context sensitivities. Using universals LOCALLY can
        > aid in some local political dynamic but over the long run a more
        > context-sensitive approach is favoured. Thus analytical negation ('born
        > again') applies locally, dialectical negation ('keep the good bits') applies
        > globally.
        >
        > The determinism inherent in genetically- The determinism inherent in gen
        > over a considerable timespan and covers the 'natural' response to living in
        > a thermodynamic universe - conservation of energy 'rules' and so a bias to
        > symmetry overall. Included in the determinism is 'purpose', all due to the
        > natural consequence of deriving meaning etc within a closed system in that
        > all that is possible is covered in the development of the neurology and its
        > sensory systems and so covers 'beginnings' and 'endings' - the recursion
        > involved (mapped to self-referencing and so self-organising systems) encodes
        > all categories within each and so encodes a 'purpose' element. It is this
        > element that such social typologies as the MBTI or HBDI or 'big-5' etc etc
        > pick up and the analysis of these methodologies moves us into in-depth
        > mappings of 'purpose' in each of us as members of neuron-dependent species.
        >
        > The FAILURE of such rigid 'hard coding' is manifest in the development of
        > consciousness and so the emergence of our SINGULAR being, our unique self as
        > an agent of mediation. This development covers pressures on the mechanistic
        > nature of recursion where, given DEPTH in that development, a teleological
        > element emerges in the form of 'purpose' and on into the ability of a
        > self-referencing system, an autopeiotic system, to describe itself and so
        > elicit the use of analogy/metaphor for mediation/communica elic
        >
        > What emerges from this activity are such dichotomies as being/doing,
        > static/dynamic, object/relationship static/dynamic, object/relationship<w
        > will elicit a dimension of classes of meaning usable to represent 'all that
        > is possible' given the bounds of the dichotomies. What is immediately
        > noticeable is an emerging issue of PRECISION, of resolution power, and with
        > that a focus on the dynamics of positive/negative feedback.
        >
        > Repeated reductionism limits what is encapsulated by the positive feedback
        > in that within what has been encapsulated is negative feedback holding
        > things together - until one reduces to a point whereupon the definition of
        > 'negative feedback' is lost since it cannot reduce to the dimensionless,
        > there must be some form of dimensionality present for 'negative feedback' to
        > apply.
        >
        > Moving into the realm of the dimensionless covers the emergence of
        > infinities where such reflect an inability to reduce the dimensional to the
        > dimensionless in that the 'perfection' associated with a closed-system,
        > symmetry-grounded, topological perspective is not represent able other than
        > through irrational means (i.e. the infinite mantissa of irrational numbers
        > bring out the inability to reduce to 'points' - we are faced with the use of
        > rounding of values and so the contribution of the SUBJECTIVE at this level
        > of precision).
        >
        > There is a tie here of infinity with 'oneness' and so coverage of a closed
        > system. OTOH the act of mediation involved introduces an asymmetric element
        > in the form of consciousness as language and so open system dynamics. Here
        > we note that mediation is grounded in uncertainty such that all languages,
        > when considered from a meta-language perspective, are naturally
        > 'incomplete' 'incomplete'<wbr>. What THIS leads to is the realisation t
        > asymmetric position one has to keep talking and storing all of that 'off
        > line' to then be taught to others; if one decides to stop, if one has had
        > enough of the perpetual production of prose, one has surrendered to the
        > symmetric, to energy conservation and social commitment. This CAN be
        > beneficial in that the period of mediation and so of serial-dominated
        > dynamics, should have refined one's intuition and so given one a good set of
        > skills to live by with little need for mediation; all is parallel, all is
        > stimulus-response, the life of an instincts/habits driven life form tied to
        > 'routine' (a necessary physiological development where loss of huge amounts
        > of neurons as we age are covered by the routines we have learnt)
        >
        > BUT there is still the need for more analysis, more mediation, and so
        > development of languages, re-development of languages; as some surrender to
        > symmetry so their works prior to such contribute to the overall perspective
        > offered by the language. Their lives after such reflect the degree of
        > internalisation of the language in the form of refined instincts/habits and
        > so patterns to live by 'intuitively'
        >
        > So - keep writing dudes - existentialism depends on it!
        >
        > Chris
        >




        **************
        Nothing says I love you like flowers! Find a florist near you
        now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000001)



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • chris lofting
        ... LOL! you need to be more specific Wil. Throwing these sorts of labels is just wind . Where specifically are there issues with what I wrote and an
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 7, 2009
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          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eupraxis@...
          > Sent: Sunday, 8 February 2009 12:25 AM
          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Loonies on the path
          >
          > This reflects your monomania and your obnoxious narcissism.

          LOL! you need to be more specific Wil. Throwing these sorts of labels is
          just 'wind'. Where specifically are there issues with what I wrote and an
          existentialist perspective? if you cannot deal with the dynamics of
          enantiodromia then you have a problem in the context of the evolution of
          existentialism - suffering will, over time, develop into discernment, a
          positive from a negative. etc etc etc. Are you that paralysed that you
          cannot make the journey? LOL! get a gripe dude, you can contribute but it
          will obviously need some work!

          Chris
          http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/AbstractDomain.html
        • bhvwd
          The red herring fish monger is busy. Who he truly represents will never be known, unless the great conspiracy can be broken open and the truth spills out.
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 7, 2009
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            The red herring fish monger is busy. Who he truly represents will
            never be known, unless the great conspiracy can be broken open and
            the truth spills out. When we try to examine the world situation we
            run up against many fools and corrupt facades. We will have
            indictments or we will fade as a civil society. The players in the
            great housing debacle are slowly emerging as punk business crooks
            but their political cover remains hidden. The corruption on a local
            level is huge. Criminals are covering their asses and trying to
            smear legitimate investigations and investigators. As Wil has
            surmised we deal with our own terrorist here and it has backing of
            unknown origin. I refuse to read his crap and will work to uncover
            his source of mania. In the mean time I hope to support our young
            president as he works to rebuild all that has been ruined by the
            right wing theocracy that has gripped us. I fear we will see
            economic terrorism dove tail with Bush/ Chaney counter terrorism and
            find a twisted core of ideologues pushing their greedy schemes and
            anti democratic agenda.
            Beating them back in the senate is a great beginning and when we get
            the money we can hire the lawyers and begin the real work. I could at
            this moment list many local slime balls who need time behind bars
            but all in proper sequence. The good moderates who are standing up
            in the senate should be supported . Olimpia Snow and Sen Susan
            Collins are brave Americans.
            We will reclaim this country for rational governance and then we
            can sort through the lies and conspiracies that have held us in
            terror. We know the big names and some of the small names but those
            in the muted press can and will fill in the blanks. Those still
            unmentioned will pull out all the stops to remain with the
            appearance of innocence but the grim truth will win out.
            The obstructionists will show us the cabal and their fear and
            corruption will undo them. We may never know the whys but the whos
            can be known by that furtive syntax and deceptive writing.
            Existentialism remains a fine standard as the battle rages about us.
            The never ending attack from strange quarters and loonies attests to
            its power. Clean thinking and iron resolve will win out. Don`t
            believe me just watch. Bill
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