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Re: Loonies on the path

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  • mary.josie59
    Bill, just this morning read these words of Camus. They seem appropriate. Mary Conscious of not being able to separate myself from my time, I have decided to
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 6, 2009
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      Bill, just this morning read these words of Camus. They seem
      appropriate. Mary

      "Conscious of not being able to separate myself from my time, I have
      decided to become part of it."

      "For those who feel solidarity with the world's destiny, the clash of
      civilizations has something anguishing about it. I have made that
      anguish my own and at the same time wished to play my role...Once must
      choose between action and contemplation."
    • chris lofting
      ... ;-) this reflects a property of mediation - hitting paradox and so not able to totally cut what one considers a whole from a more complex, if but
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 6, 2009
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        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mary.josie59
        > Sent: Saturday, 7 February 2009 3:11 PM
        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [existlist] Re: Loonies on the path
        >
        > Bill, just this morning read these words of Camus. They seem
        > appropriate. Mary
        >
        > "Conscious of not being able to separate myself from my time,
        > I have decided to become part of it."
        >

        ;-) this reflects a property of mediation - hitting paradox and so not able
        to totally 'cut' what one considers a 'whole' from a more complex, if but
        vague, whole; as such we cover metonymy vs metaphor. The focus on the static
        will reduce to a point and in doing so hit upon the sensation of the
        'infinite' - the inability to find a 'cut' other than one that is subjective
        and in being subjective is not considered as 'true' (where 'truth' is
        associated with symmetry and 'oneness'!). To experience this inability to
        totally 'cut' from a complex pattern, see the sensory paradox examples in
        http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/paradox.html where the infinite
        oscillations possible reflect this cutting issue.

        > "For those who feel solidarity with the world's destiny, the
        > clash of civilizations has something anguishing about it. I
        > have made that anguish my own and at the same time wished to
        > play my role...Once must choose between action and contemplation."
        >
        >

        "Free will" presents in the form of choices and they not as ideal, as
        universals, but as local context sensitivities. Using universals LOCALLY can
        aid in some local political dynamic but over the long run a more
        context-sensitive approach is favoured. Thus analytical negation ('born
        again') applies locally, dialectical negation ('keep the good bits') applies
        globally.

        The determinism inherent in genetically-determined species has developed
        over a considerable timespan and covers the 'natural' response to living in
        a thermodynamic universe - conservation of energy 'rules' and so a bias to
        symmetry overall. Included in the determinism is 'purpose', all due to the
        natural consequence of deriving meaning etc within a closed system in that
        all that is possible is covered in the development of the neurology and its
        sensory systems and so covers 'beginnings' and 'endings' - the recursion
        involved (mapped to self-referencing and so self-organising systems) encodes
        all categories within each and so encodes a 'purpose' element. It is this
        element that such social typologies as the MBTI or HBDI or 'big-5' etc etc
        pick up and the analysis of these methodologies moves us into in-depth
        mappings of 'purpose' in each of us as members of neuron-dependent species.

        The FAILURE of such rigid 'hard coding' is manifest in the development of
        consciousness and so the emergence of our SINGULAR being, our unique self as
        an agent of mediation. This development covers pressures on the mechanistic
        nature of recursion where, given DEPTH in that development, a teleological
        element emerges in the form of 'purpose' and on into the ability of a
        self-referencing system, an autopeiotic system, to describe itself and so
        elicit the use of analogy/metaphor for mediation/communication.

        What emerges from this activity are such dichotomies as being/doing,
        static/dynamic, object/relationships etc etc where the recursion of these
        will elicit a dimension of classes of meaning usable to represent 'all that
        is possible' given the bounds of the dichotomies. What is immediately
        noticeable is an emerging issue of PRECISION, of resolution power, and with
        that a focus on the dynamics of positive/negative feedback.

        Repeated reductionism limits what is encapsulated by the positive feedback
        in that within what has been encapsulated is negative feedback holding
        things together - until one reduces to a point whereupon the definition of
        'negative feedback' is lost since it cannot reduce to the dimensionless,
        there must be some form of dimensionality present for 'negative feedback' to
        apply.

        Moving into the realm of the dimensionless covers the emergence of
        infinities where such reflect an inability to reduce the dimensional to the
        dimensionless in that the 'perfection' associated with a closed-system,
        symmetry-grounded, topological perspective is not represent able other than
        through irrational means (i.e. the infinite mantissa of irrational numbers
        bring out the inability to reduce to 'points' - we are faced with the use of
        rounding of values and so the contribution of the SUBJECTIVE at this level
        of precision).

        There is a tie here of infinity with 'oneness' and so coverage of a closed
        system. OTOH the act of mediation involved introduces an asymmetric element
        in the form of consciousness as language and so open system dynamics. Here
        we note that mediation is grounded in uncertainty such that all languages,
        when considered from a meta-language perspective, are naturally
        'incomplete'. What THIS leads to is the realisation that to maintain an
        asymmetric position one has to keep talking and storing all of that 'off
        line' to then be taught to others; if one decides to stop, if one has had
        enough of the perpetual production of prose, one has surrendered to the
        symmetric, to energy conservation and social commitment. This CAN be
        beneficial in that the period of mediation and so of serial-dominated
        dynamics, should have refined one's intuition and so given one a good set of
        skills to live by with little need for mediation; all is parallel, all is
        stimulus-response, the life of an instincts/habits driven life form tied to
        'routine' (a necessary physiological development where loss of huge amounts
        of neurons as we age are covered by the routines we have learnt)

        BUT there is still the need for more analysis, more mediation, and so
        development of languages, re-development of languages; as some surrender to
        symmetry so their works prior to such contribute to the overall perspective
        offered by the language. Their lives after such reflect the degree of
        internalisation of the language in the form of refined instincts/habits and
        so patterns to live by 'intuitively'.

        So - keep writing dudes - existentialism depends on it!

        Chris
        http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/AbstractDomain.html
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        This reflects your monomania and your obnoxious narcissism. You are more like a stalker than a member here. Wil ... ************** Nothing says I love you like
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 7, 2009
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          This reflects your monomania and your obnoxious narcissism. You are more like
          a stalker than a member here.

          Wil

          In a message dated 2/6/09 11:25:57 PM, lofting@... writes:


          > ;-) this reflects a property of mediation - hitting paradox and so not able
          > to totally 'cut' what one considers a 'whole' from a more complex, if but
          > vague, whole; as such we cover metonymy vs metaphor. The focus on the static
          > will reduce to a point and in doing so hit upon the sensation of the
          > 'infinite' - the inability to find a 'cut' other than one that is subjective
          > and in being subjective is not considered as 'true' (where 'truth' is
          > associated with symmetry and 'oneness'!). To experience this inability to
          > totally 'cut' from a complex pattern, see the sensory paradox examples in
          > http://members.http://membehttp://membehttp://membershttp where the infinite
          > oscillations possible reflect this cutting issue.
          >
          > > "For those who feel solidarity with the world's destiny, the
          > > clash of civilizations has something anguishing about it. I
          > > have made that anguish my own and at the same time wished to
          > > play my role...Once must choose between action and contemplation.
          > >
          > >
          >
          > "Free will" presents in the form of choices and they not as ideal, as
          > universals, but as local context sensitivities. Using universals LOCALLY can
          > aid in some local political dynamic but over the long run a more
          > context-sensitive approach is favoured. Thus analytical negation ('born
          > again') applies locally, dialectical negation ('keep the good bits') applies
          > globally.
          >
          > The determinism inherent in genetically- The determinism inherent in gen
          > over a considerable timespan and covers the 'natural' response to living in
          > a thermodynamic universe - conservation of energy 'rules' and so a bias to
          > symmetry overall. Included in the determinism is 'purpose', all due to the
          > natural consequence of deriving meaning etc within a closed system in that
          > all that is possible is covered in the development of the neurology and its
          > sensory systems and so covers 'beginnings' and 'endings' - the recursion
          > involved (mapped to self-referencing and so self-organising systems) encodes
          > all categories within each and so encodes a 'purpose' element. It is this
          > element that such social typologies as the MBTI or HBDI or 'big-5' etc etc
          > pick up and the analysis of these methodologies moves us into in-depth
          > mappings of 'purpose' in each of us as members of neuron-dependent species.
          >
          > The FAILURE of such rigid 'hard coding' is manifest in the development of
          > consciousness and so the emergence of our SINGULAR being, our unique self as
          > an agent of mediation. This development covers pressures on the mechanistic
          > nature of recursion where, given DEPTH in that development, a teleological
          > element emerges in the form of 'purpose' and on into the ability of a
          > self-referencing system, an autopeiotic system, to describe itself and so
          > elicit the use of analogy/metaphor for mediation/communica elic
          >
          > What emerges from this activity are such dichotomies as being/doing,
          > static/dynamic, object/relationship static/dynamic, object/relationship<w
          > will elicit a dimension of classes of meaning usable to represent 'all that
          > is possible' given the bounds of the dichotomies. What is immediately
          > noticeable is an emerging issue of PRECISION, of resolution power, and with
          > that a focus on the dynamics of positive/negative feedback.
          >
          > Repeated reductionism limits what is encapsulated by the positive feedback
          > in that within what has been encapsulated is negative feedback holding
          > things together - until one reduces to a point whereupon the definition of
          > 'negative feedback' is lost since it cannot reduce to the dimensionless,
          > there must be some form of dimensionality present for 'negative feedback' to
          > apply.
          >
          > Moving into the realm of the dimensionless covers the emergence of
          > infinities where such reflect an inability to reduce the dimensional to the
          > dimensionless in that the 'perfection' associated with a closed-system,
          > symmetry-grounded, topological perspective is not represent able other than
          > through irrational means (i.e. the infinite mantissa of irrational numbers
          > bring out the inability to reduce to 'points' - we are faced with the use of
          > rounding of values and so the contribution of the SUBJECTIVE at this level
          > of precision).
          >
          > There is a tie here of infinity with 'oneness' and so coverage of a closed
          > system. OTOH the act of mediation involved introduces an asymmetric element
          > in the form of consciousness as language and so open system dynamics. Here
          > we note that mediation is grounded in uncertainty such that all languages,
          > when considered from a meta-language perspective, are naturally
          > 'incomplete' 'incomplete'<wbr>. What THIS leads to is the realisation t
          > asymmetric position one has to keep talking and storing all of that 'off
          > line' to then be taught to others; if one decides to stop, if one has had
          > enough of the perpetual production of prose, one has surrendered to the
          > symmetric, to energy conservation and social commitment. This CAN be
          > beneficial in that the period of mediation and so of serial-dominated
          > dynamics, should have refined one's intuition and so given one a good set of
          > skills to live by with little need for mediation; all is parallel, all is
          > stimulus-response, the life of an instincts/habits driven life form tied to
          > 'routine' (a necessary physiological development where loss of huge amounts
          > of neurons as we age are covered by the routines we have learnt)
          >
          > BUT there is still the need for more analysis, more mediation, and so
          > development of languages, re-development of languages; as some surrender to
          > symmetry so their works prior to such contribute to the overall perspective
          > offered by the language. Their lives after such reflect the degree of
          > internalisation of the language in the form of refined instincts/habits and
          > so patterns to live by 'intuitively'
          >
          > So - keep writing dudes - existentialism depends on it!
          >
          > Chris
          >




          **************
          Nothing says I love you like flowers! Find a florist near you
          now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000001)



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • chris lofting
          ... LOL! you need to be more specific Wil. Throwing these sorts of labels is just wind . Where specifically are there issues with what I wrote and an
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 7, 2009
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            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eupraxis@...
            > Sent: Sunday, 8 February 2009 12:25 AM
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Loonies on the path
            >
            > This reflects your monomania and your obnoxious narcissism.

            LOL! you need to be more specific Wil. Throwing these sorts of labels is
            just 'wind'. Where specifically are there issues with what I wrote and an
            existentialist perspective? if you cannot deal with the dynamics of
            enantiodromia then you have a problem in the context of the evolution of
            existentialism - suffering will, over time, develop into discernment, a
            positive from a negative. etc etc etc. Are you that paralysed that you
            cannot make the journey? LOL! get a gripe dude, you can contribute but it
            will obviously need some work!

            Chris
            http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/AbstractDomain.html
          • bhvwd
            The red herring fish monger is busy. Who he truly represents will never be known, unless the great conspiracy can be broken open and the truth spills out.
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 7, 2009
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              The red herring fish monger is busy. Who he truly represents will
              never be known, unless the great conspiracy can be broken open and
              the truth spills out. When we try to examine the world situation we
              run up against many fools and corrupt facades. We will have
              indictments or we will fade as a civil society. The players in the
              great housing debacle are slowly emerging as punk business crooks
              but their political cover remains hidden. The corruption on a local
              level is huge. Criminals are covering their asses and trying to
              smear legitimate investigations and investigators. As Wil has
              surmised we deal with our own terrorist here and it has backing of
              unknown origin. I refuse to read his crap and will work to uncover
              his source of mania. In the mean time I hope to support our young
              president as he works to rebuild all that has been ruined by the
              right wing theocracy that has gripped us. I fear we will see
              economic terrorism dove tail with Bush/ Chaney counter terrorism and
              find a twisted core of ideologues pushing their greedy schemes and
              anti democratic agenda.
              Beating them back in the senate is a great beginning and when we get
              the money we can hire the lawyers and begin the real work. I could at
              this moment list many local slime balls who need time behind bars
              but all in proper sequence. The good moderates who are standing up
              in the senate should be supported . Olimpia Snow and Sen Susan
              Collins are brave Americans.
              We will reclaim this country for rational governance and then we
              can sort through the lies and conspiracies that have held us in
              terror. We know the big names and some of the small names but those
              in the muted press can and will fill in the blanks. Those still
              unmentioned will pull out all the stops to remain with the
              appearance of innocence but the grim truth will win out.
              The obstructionists will show us the cabal and their fear and
              corruption will undo them. We may never know the whys but the whos
              can be known by that furtive syntax and deceptive writing.
              Existentialism remains a fine standard as the battle rages about us.
              The never ending attack from strange quarters and loonies attests to
              its power. Clean thinking and iron resolve will win out. Don`t
              believe me just watch. Bill
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