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Re: Where the livin is easy

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  • bhvwd
    ... has created. ... equation we might reduce ... the South Park episode, ... after study shows that ... larger than 150 individuals. ... split into new ...
    Message 1 of 38 , Dec 31, 2008
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      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "C. S. Wyatt" <existlist1@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.josie59" <mary.josie59@>
      wrote:
      > >
      > > Wil, it's taken about 10,000 years to create the mess humanity
      has created.
      >
      > For a time, I imagined that if we could remove religion from the
      equation we might reduce
      > this "mess" created by humanity. Then, I realized that much like
      the South Park episode,
      > the various "Darwinists" would fight over something new. Study
      after study shows that
      > social groups "tip" towards polarization once the population is
      larger than 150 individuals.
      > We don't know why, but it happens even among the Amish -- so they
      split into new
      > groups at that size.
      >
      > Something in mankind, I don't know what, makes us want to protect
      and defend our small
      > social community. We develop tribes and groups, even at school or
      work. Heck, even in the
      > various non-profits I work with, we split into yet new groups and
      fight horrible fights that
      > destroy families.
      >
      > Autism Speaks vs. Autism Society of America vs. DAN! vs.... and so
      on. No one can agree
      > on a direction for more than a few days, then the fights become
      literally violent. Yes, I
      > have seen parents turn physically aggressive at conventions and
      meetings, especially on
      > issues of cause or treatment. The violence indicates something in
      humans -- something
      > sadly innate.
      >
      > I study a lot about political events and neuropsychology. There's
      something being called
      > "escalation theory." Two sides see the other as escalating the
      conflict. Each response, a
      > slight notch more aggressive, is perceived as an equal response to
      the enemy. Escalation
      > continues, until there is either defeat of the "enemy" or a
      stalemate. We even see this when
      > students try to explain away cheating on tests -- "The other
      students cheated on
      > homework, so I had to cheat on this test." It's a need to justify
      what we would normally
      > consider immoral choices.
      >
      > This is also why we need laws, regulations, and even mediators /
      courts. Of course, we
      > have to agree to those limitations or they have no influence on
      humanity. (Witness the
      > uselessness of the United Nations -- as long as one nation ignores
      choices, no nation is
      > bound by them. Of course, I also think the U.N. is not legitimate,
      but that's a different
      > matter.)
      >
      > If you and I agree to settle conflicts in court, with words instead
      of bombs, that's a major
      > step ahead. But those systems need respect and true authority.
      >
      > Also, we will probably always have sociopaths, narcissists, and
      other "abnormal
      > personalities" willing to do anything without guilt. It doesn't
      matter what type of social,
      > economic, or political order you have -- a sociopath by definition
      can charm his or her
      > way into power... and we know what happens then.
      >
      > Humanity, it seems, has had and will always have some monsters.
      Sadly, just enough of
      > those monsters gain power and influence over people.
      >
      > (I'd make a comment about the risks of "American Idol Democracy" --
      but I just saw a
      > music video of Putin that was apparently the number one song in
      Russia this year. "I want
      > a man like Putin." Wow... can't imagine "I want a man like Bush."
      MSNBC put the shirtless
      > Obama next to the shirtless Putin. This is our world.)
      >
      > - CSW
      > Going back to sleep... so I can ignore human stupidity.
      >CSW, when you come to, sing to James Talors new release, "Wichataw
      Lineman" . If you got any talent the effect is spontaneus. Bill
    • louise
      ... to ... Correction required here. All the indications so far are that I am not at all to blame. Louise ... that ... say, ... the ... what ... I ...
      Message 38 of 38 , Jan 6, 2009
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        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:
        >
        > Jim,
        >
        > Thanks for the encouragement. A return to the thoughts of Nietzsche
        > may be just what the doctor ordered for me. I am in no condition at
        > present to consider the complexities of race, politics or war, and
        to
        > feel this kind of subject-matter as personal grievance is the
        > antithesis of existential. Seems I am to blame.
        >
        > Louise

        Correction required here. All the indications so far are that I am
        not at all to blame.

        Louise


        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "jimstuart51" <jjimstuart1@>
        wrote:
        > >
        > > Louise,
        > >
        > > My remark was not altogether serious, as I do share your concern
        that
        > > sometimes this forum becomes "seemingly indistinguishable from,
        say,
        > > an intelligent political journal."
        > >
        > > I realize our political views are very different and that, for
        the
        > > most part, I disagree with what you write and you disagree with
        what
        > > I write when we each express our political views.
        > >
        > > However, when we return to philosophical and existential matters,
        I
        > > think my outlook is closer to yours than to any of our American
        > > friends.
        > >
        > > I accept that communication about serious matters is often
        difficult,
        > > and misunderstandings easily arise, but I genuinely appreciate
        your
        > > distinctive contribution to this list. I quite agree with what
        Mary
        > > wrote in her post 46143.
        > >
        > > Jim
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "jimstuart51" <jjimstuart1@>
        > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > All,
        > > > >
        > > > > At the risk of annoying Louise again, I'm submitting
        > > > > another `unexistential', general, political post.
        > > >
        > > > Jim,
        > > >
        > > > Am I the only one to find an element of farce about the latest
        > > series
        > > > of misunderstandings, disagreements and non-sequiturs which
        weave
        > > > through the serious arguments and friendly banter? It is not
        only
        > > > farce, because there is an element of the unknown, behind our
        > > speaking,
        > > > or writing. This is how words may 'cause pain'.
        > > >
        > > > It really is not the point if you should write something which
        > > annoys
        > > > me. I was simply getting upset that my own concerns were so
        > > difficult
        > > > to explain satisfactorily, or perhaps this is mainly a matter
        > > between
        > > > myself and Wil, with some involvement from Bill, who like me
        puts
        > > no
        > > > trust in the informal 'politics' of the Left.
        > > >
        > > > In fact, I find it most alarming, in the very process of trying
        to
        > > > present what I believe to be reasonable freedom of speech, if
        > > anyone
        > > > should feel restricted on my account, about writing at the list
        > > what
        > > > they hold to be true. Where there is any breach of list rules
        or
        > > > etiquette, Susan or CSW will step in as they see fit.
        > > >
        > > > I do get frustrated, it is true, when philosophical enquiry
        seems
        > > lost
        > > > in a welter of applied thought, such that an existential list
        > > becomes
        > > > for a while seemingly indistinguishable from, say, an
        intelligent
        > > > political journal. It remains the case, though, that I am a
        member
        > > of
        > > > this list, simply, and do not wish to be made an exception and
        > > excluded
        > > > from its disciplines. Kindness is appreciated, of course, when
        it
        > > does
        > > > not come accompanied with such misunderstanding that it causes
        > > further
        > > > pain. So if I have appeared ungracious in recent times, and
        > > appeared
        > > > to spurn such kindness, this is the reason.
        > > >
        > > > Louise
        > > >
        > >
        >
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