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Re: [existlist] Re: Getting Down to Basics vs Getting With the Program

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  • eupraxis@aol.com
    Don t drink the punch. Wil ... From: Herman B. Triplegood To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 1:29 pm Subject: [existlist] Re:
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 30 12:11 PM
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      Don't drink the punch.

      Wil




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Herman B. Triplegood <hb3g@...>
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 1:29 pm
      Subject: [existlist] Re: Getting Down to Basics vs Getting With the Program

























      Wil: But a feeling is just ... a feeling.



      Hb3g: But a concept is just ... a concept.



      Consider lyric poetry for a moment.



      How is it that we "get" what the poem is saying?



      Is that just ... a feeling?



      Is it not also ... an understanding?



      Okay...



      What about philosophy?



      You say: Solve problems. Do critique. Be revolutionary. Will to power.



      Well...



      I say: What about insight?



      What are we really "going after" here?



      Here you are, and this is your world before you. That relation, right

      there, is indeed an awesome fact, an irreducible fact of your Being,

      and of mine as well.



      You are not just a thing Wil. Nor are you just a thinking being. No.

      Not quite that either.



      You are Being ... thinking! That is what you are. And me too.



      That fact, right there, is astonishing.



      But thinking includes feeling. H says this in B & T. It just makes

      sense, you know. Try thinking without feeling. You can't. Not really.

      Mood and understanding always go together. They are inseparable.

      Thinking AND feeling, together, are always already there in the

      primordial experiential unity of our Being human, of our Being in a

      world.



      If we go at this one-sidedly, by raising thinking up over feeling, as

      if thinking were something more than, better than, truer than, and

      separate from, feeling, we do so at the risk of perhaps losing our

      ability to understand feeling. We sometimes think too much. So much,

      that we have "lost touch" with our feelings. Now we can think. But we

      can no longer feel.



      Yes. But, what we repress always manages to find its way back to us.

      The harder we repress the repressed, the more aberrant the return of

      that repressed can be.



      Hb3g






















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bhvwd
      ... insurance company is nearing bankrupcy. The FDIC upping insured amounts is the real cool aid for the insurance boys. If we put in 700 hundred billion
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Don't drink the punch.
        >
        > Wil
        > Wil, is that the bail out punch? Reed just "leaked" that a major US
        insurance company is nearing bankrupcy. The FDIC upping insured
        amounts is the real cool aid for the insurance boys. If we put in
        700 hundred billion what are the chances of a bank going down. I see
        this as a rare opportunity, to rid ourselves of part of the insurance
        monster. But no, they will be bailed out and we will be protected.
        That is the double talk we must spew.
        Being a simplistic sort, I connect post modernism to deconstruction
        and correctness to the right wing moralists. They are a
        political,theological movement and have had their way in this country
        for years. What they do is directed by god and therefore will be for
        the best in the end. Deconstruction was the philosophical smoke
        screen that covered their irrational ,metaphysical mischef. They
        deserve everything, all power all wealth. The rest of us are here to
        serve. Them. Bill
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Herman B. Triplegood <hb3g@...>
        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 1:29 pm
        > Subject: [existlist] Re: Getting Down to Basics vs Getting With the
        Program
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Wil: But a feeling is just ... a feeling.
        >
        >
        >
        > Hb3g: But a concept is just ... a concept.
        >
        >
        >
        > Consider lyric poetry for a moment.
        >
        >
        >
        > How is it that we "get" what the poem is saying?
        >
        >
        >
        > Is that just ... a feeling?
        >
        >
        >
        > Is it not also ... an understanding?
        >
        >
        >
        > Okay...
        >
        >
        >
        > What about philosophy?
        >
        >
        >
        > You say: Solve problems. Do critique. Be revolutionary. Will to
        power.
        >
        >
        >
        > Well...
        >
        >
        >
        > I say: What about insight?
        >
        >
        >
        > What are we really "going after" here?
        >
        >
        >
        > Here you are, and this is your world before you. That relation,
        right
        >
        > there, is indeed an awesome fact, an irreducible fact of your
        Being,
        >
        > and of mine as well.
        >
        >
        >
        > You are not just a thing Wil. Nor are you just a thinking being.
        No.
        >
        > Not quite that either.
        >
        >
        >
        > You are Being ... thinking! That is what you are. And me too.
        >
        >
        >
        > That fact, right there, is astonishing.
        >
        >
        >
        > But thinking includes feeling. H says this in B & T. It just makes
        >
        > sense, you know. Try thinking without feeling. You can't. Not
        really.
        >
        > Mood and understanding always go together. They are inseparable.
        >
        > Thinking AND feeling, together, are always already there in the
        >
        > primordial experiential unity of our Being human, of our Being in a
        >
        > world.
        >
        >
        >
        > If we go at this one-sidedly, by raising thinking up over feeling,
        as
        >
        > if thinking were something more than, better than, truer than, and
        >
        > separate from, feeling, we do so at the risk of perhaps losing our
        >
        > ability to understand feeling. We sometimes think too much. So
        much,
        >
        > that we have "lost touch" with our feelings. Now we can think. But
        we
        >
        > can no longer feel.
        >
        >
        >
        > Yes. But, what we repress always manages to find its way back to
        us.
        >
        > The harder we repress the repressed, the more aberrant the return
        of
        >
        > that repressed can be.
        >
        >
        >
        > Hb3g
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        No, I meant the Jonestown punch. Our friend was getting too wide eyed for his own good. Wil ... From: bhvwd To:
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          No, I meant the Jonestown punch. Our friend was getting too wide eyed for his own good.

          Wil







          -----Original Message-----
          From: bhvwd <v.valleywestdental@...>
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 1:55 pm
          Subject: [existlist] Re: Getting Down to Basics vs Getting With the Program

























          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:

          >

          >

          > Don't drink the punch.

          >

          > Wil

          > Wil, is that the bail out punch? Reed just "leaked" that a major US

          insurance company is nearing bankrupcy. The FDIC upping insured

          amounts is the real cool aid for the insurance boys. If we put in

          700 hundred billion what are the chances of a bank going down. I see

          this as a rare opportunity, to rid ourselves of part of the insurance

          monster. But no, they will be bailed out and we will be protected.

          That is the double talk we must spew.

          Being a simplistic sort, I connect post modernism to deconstruction

          and correctness to the right wing moralists. They are a

          political,theological movement and have had their way in this country

          for years. What they do is directed by god and therefore will be for

          the best in the end. Deconstruction was the philosophical smoke

          screen that covered their irrational ,metaphysical mischef. They

          deserve everything, all power all wealth. The rest of us are here to

          serve. Them. Bill

          >

          >

          >

          > -----Original Message-----

          > From: Herman B. Triplegood <hb3g@...>

          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com

          > Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 1:29 pm

          > Subject: [existlist] Re: Getting Down to Basics vs Getting With the

          Program

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          > Wil: But a feeling is just ... a feeling.

          >

          >

          >

          > Hb3g: But a concept is just ... a concept.

          >

          >

          >

          > Consider lyric poetry for a moment.

          >

          >

          >

          > How is it that we "get" what the poem is saying?

          >

          >

          >

          > Is that just ... a feeling?

          >

          >

          >

          > Is it not also ... an understanding?

          >

          >

          >

          > Okay...

          >

          >

          >

          > What about philosophy?

          >

          >

          >

          > You say: Solve problems. Do critique. Be revolutionary. Will to

          power.

          >

          >

          >

          > Well...

          >

          >

          >

          > I say: What about insight?

          >

          >

          >

          > What are we really "going after" here?

          >

          >

          >

          > Here you are, and this is your world before you. That relation,

          right

          >

          > there, is indeed an awesome fact, an irreducible fact of your

          Being,

          >

          > and of mine as well.

          >

          >

          >

          > You are not just a thing Wil. Nor are you just a thinking being.

          No.

          >

          > Not quite that either.

          >

          >

          >

          > You are Being ... thinking! That is what you are. And me too.

          >

          >

          >

          > That fact, right there, is astonishing.

          >

          >

          >

          > But thinking includes feeling. H says this in B & T. It just makes

          >

          > sense, you know. Try thinking without feeling. You can't. Not

          really.

          >

          > Mood and understanding always go together. They are inseparable.

          >

          > Thinking AND feeling, together, are always already there in the

          >

          > primordial experiential unity of our Being human, of our Being in a

          >

          > world.

          >

          >

          >

          > If we go at this one-sidedly, by raising thinking up over feeling,

          as

          >

          > if thinking were something more than, better than, truer than, and

          >

          > separate from, feeling, we do so at the risk of perhaps losing our

          >

          > ability to understand feeling. We sometimes think too much. So

          much,

          >

          > that we have "lost touch" with our feelings. Now we can think. But

          we

          >

          > can no longer feel.

          >

          >

          >

          > Yes. But, what we repress always manages to find its way back to

          us.

          >

          > The harder we repress the repressed, the more aberrant the return

          of

          >

          > that repressed can be.

          >

          >

          >

          > Hb3g

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >






















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bhvwd
          ... US ... see ... insurance ... deconstruction ... country ... for ... to ... we let it tumble? Can we stop it at all? So that is the rough process that is
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 1, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@ wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Don't drink the punch.
            > >
            > > Wil
            > > Wil, is that the bail out punch? Reed just "leaked" that a major
            US
            > insurance company is nearing bankrupcy. The FDIC upping insured
            > amounts is the real cool aid for the insurance boys. If we put in
            > 700 hundred billion what are the chances of a bank going down. I
            see
            > this as a rare opportunity, to rid ourselves of part of the
            insurance
            > monster. But no, they will be bailed out and we will be protected.
            > That is the double talk we must spew.
            > Being a simplistic sort, I connect post modernism to
            deconstruction
            > and correctness to the right wing moralists. They are a
            > political,theological movement and have had their way in this
            country
            > for years. What they do is directed by god and therefore will be
            for
            > the best in the end. Deconstruction was the philosophical smoke
            > screen that covered their irrational ,metaphysical mischef. They
            > deserve everything, all power all wealth. The rest of us are here
            to
            > serve. Them. Bill
            > > So just for yucks lets say the pyramid is falling, how far should
            we let it tumble? Can we stop it at all? So that is the rough process
            that is taking place now. The financial sector is being trimmed but
            how deep should those cuts be? I think it should be deep enough to
            stop it from regrowing. Those people are not stupid and should not
            turn their aquiline noses up at job change. I of course opt for
            hard labor but know they will weasel out of that. The patriots can go
            to the army and burrow into the bureaucracy to avoid combat. Good
            retirement benefits and you still wear a suit. Of course once you
            have signed the paper all kinds of unexpected options appear , fix
            bayonetts!Both sides are fighting for survival and the public genie
            is far out of the bottle. It comes back to a trial of modernism and
            few have any idea where the stakes will be wagered. I will pretend
            it is on the senate floor and watch c-span for a good nap. It is
            really good not to talk to you but again you may have a day job. Bill
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Herman B. Triplegood <hb3g@>
            > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 1:29 pm
            > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Getting Down to Basics vs Getting With
            the
            > Program
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Wil: But a feeling is just ... a feeling.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hb3g: But a concept is just ... a concept.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Consider lyric poetry for a moment.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > How is it that we "get" what the poem is saying?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Is that just ... a feeling?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Is it not also ... an understanding?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Okay...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > What about philosophy?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > You say: Solve problems. Do critique. Be revolutionary. Will to
            > power.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Well...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I say: What about insight?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > What are we really "going after" here?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Here you are, and this is your world before you. That relation,
            > right
            > >
            > > there, is indeed an awesome fact, an irreducible fact of your
            > Being,
            > >
            > > and of mine as well.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > You are not just a thing Wil. Nor are you just a thinking being.
            > No.
            > >
            > > Not quite that either.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > You are Being ... thinking! That is what you are. And me too.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > That fact, right there, is astonishing.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > But thinking includes feeling. H says this in B & T. It just
            makes
            > >
            > > sense, you know. Try thinking without feeling. You can't. Not
            > really.
            > >
            > > Mood and understanding always go together. They are inseparable.
            > >
            > > Thinking AND feeling, together, are always already there in the
            > >
            > > primordial experiential unity of our Being human, of our Being in
            a
            > >
            > > world.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > If we go at this one-sidedly, by raising thinking up over
            feeling,
            > as
            > >
            > > if thinking were something more than, better than, truer than,
            and
            > >
            > > separate from, feeling, we do so at the risk of perhaps losing
            our
            > >
            > > ability to understand feeling. We sometimes think too much. So
            > much,
            > >
            > > that we have "lost touch" with our feelings. Now we can think.
            But
            > we
            > >
            > > can no longer feel.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yes. But, what we repress always manages to find its way back to
            > us.
            > >
            > > The harder we repress the repressed, the more aberrant the return
            > of
            > >
            > > that repressed can be.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hb3g
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • louise
            Wil, I entirely disagree. Herman s post offers a great new direction for our musings and discussions at the list. When the primordial, when feeling finds its
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 1, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Wil,

              I entirely disagree. Herman's post offers a great new direction for
              our musings and discussions at the list. When the primordial, when
              feeling finds its chance to be, the first sign may be silence. Then
              whatever comes, is new. At least, I remember when life used to be
              that way.

              Louise

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > No, I meant the Jonestown punch. Our friend was getting too wide
              eyed for his own good.
              >
              > Wil

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: bhvwd <v.valleywestdental@...>
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 1:55 pm
              > Subject: [existlist] Re: Getting Down to Basics vs Getting With the
              Program

              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@ wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Don't drink the punch.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Wil
              >
              > > Wil, is that the bail out punch? Reed just "leaked" that a major
              US
              >
              > insurance company is nearing bankrupcy. The FDIC upping insured
              >
              > amounts is the real cool aid for the insurance boys. If we put in
              >
              > 700 hundred billion what are the chances of a bank going down. I
              see
              >
              > this as a rare opportunity, to rid ourselves of part of the
              insurance
              >
              > monster. But no, they will be bailed out and we will be protected.
              >
              > That is the double talk we must spew.
              >
              > Being a simplistic sort, I connect post modernism to
              deconstruction
              >
              > and correctness to the right wing moralists. They are a
              >
              > political,theological movement and have had their way in this
              country
              >
              > for years. What they do is directed by god and therefore will be
              for
              >
              > the best in the end. Deconstruction was the philosophical smoke
              >
              > screen that covered their irrational ,metaphysical mischef. They
              >
              > deserve everything, all power all wealth. The rest of us are here
              to
              >
              > serve. Them. Bill
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              >
              > > From: Herman B. Triplegood <hb3g@>
              >
              > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > > Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 1:29 pm
              >
              > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Getting Down to Basics vs Getting With
              the
              >
              > Program

              >
              > > Wil: But a feeling is just ... a feeling.

              > > Hb3g: But a concept is just ... a concept.

              > > Consider lyric poetry for a moment.

              > > How is it that we "get" what the poem is saying?

              > > Is that just ... a feeling?

              > > Is it not also ... an understanding?

              > > Okay...

              > > What about philosophy?

              > > You say: Solve problems. Do critique. Be revolutionary. Will to
              >
              > power.

              > > Well...

              > > I say: What about insight?

              > > What are we really "going after" here?

              > > Here you are, and this is your world before you. That relation,
              >
              > right there, is indeed an awesome fact, an irreducible fact of your
              >
              > Being, and of mine as well.

              > > You are not just a thing Wil. Nor are you just a thinking being.

              > > No.

              > > Not quite that either.

              > > You are Being ... thinking! That is what you are. And me too.

              > > That fact, right there, is astonishing.

              > > But thinking includes feeling. H says this in B & T. It just

              > > makes sense, you know. Try thinking without feeling. You can't.

              > > Not really.

              > > Mood and understanding always go together. They are inseparable.

              > > Thinking AND feeling, together, are always already there in the

              > > primordial experiential unity of our Being human, of our Being in

              > > a world.

              > > If we go at this one-sidedly, by raising thinking up over

              > > feeling, as if thinking were something more than, better than,

              > > truer than, and separate from, feeling, we do so at the risk of

              > > perhaps losing our ability to understand feeling. We sometimes

              > > think too much. So much, that we have "lost touch" with our

              > > feelings. Now we can think. But we can no longer feel.

              > > Yes. But, what we repress always manages to find its way back to

              > > us. The harder we repress the repressed, the more aberrant the

              > > return of that repressed can be.

              > > Hb3g
            • eupraxis@aol.com
              Perhaps, but the discussion between Herman and myself has already passed onto the domain of hyperbole and lampoon just a little. And I mean just a little. I
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 1, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Perhaps, but the discussion between Herman and myself has already passed onto
                the domain of hyperbole and lampoon just a little. And I mean just a little.
                I already said that I basically agree with him on much of this, but that I am
                pursuing another reading of things that has another goal and another urgency
                in mind.

                Wil


                In a message dated 10/1/08 7:53:49 PM, hecubatoher@... writes:


                >
                >
                >
                > Wil,
                >
                > I entirely disagree. Herman's post offers a great new direction for
                > our musings and discussions at the list. When the primordial, when
                > feeling finds its chance to be, the first sign may be silence. Then
                > whatever comes, is new. At least, I remember when life used to be
                > that way.
                >
                > Louise
                >
                >
                >




                **************
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Herman B. Triplegood
                Wil: I am pursuing another reading of things that has another goal and another urgency in mind. Let me just rattle the cage a bit... Hb3g: This is what is
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 2, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Wil: I am pursuing another reading of things that has another goal
                  and another urgency in mind.

                  Let me just rattle the cage a bit...

                  Hb3g: This is what is urgent to me Wil. Philosophy. I mean
                  metaphysics. I mean what philosophy must be: going for the root of it
                  all. Those other goals and urgencies you are pursuing are just fine
                  with me Wil. They are important. They are obvious. But they are NOT
                  philosophy. Not by a long shot.

                  We have forgotten philosophy itself.

                  So, I ask this question again.

                  Which question is it?

                  Really?

                  1. What is philosophy?

                  Or...

                  2. Why philosophy?

                  I go for number 2, not number 1.

                  The why question is far more important to me than the what question.

                  Philosophy. Why philosophy? What good is it?

                  Take it back to the things that Socrates said. Why do you suppose
                  that Socrates said we must pursue the possibility of the good of
                  philosophy "at all costs"? Even though we don't really know it? Even
                  though we can't ever ultimately know it? Why did philosophy matter so
                  much to Socrates that he put up his life for the sake of the pursuit
                  of it? For the sake of what remains, in the final analysis, unknown?
                  Unknowable? The unknown?

                  What was really at stake there? What is still at stake right here and
                  right now? I'll tell you what Socrates said in the Phaedo. You can
                  take it or leave it. But you might try asking yourself what it really
                  means for somebody like Socrates to even say a thing like this. What
                  it really means isn't as obvious as you might think it is. Socrates
                  said, that the reason why we MUST pursue philosophy, is because it is
                  our immortality that is at stake.

                  Now, what in the hell is that supposed to REALLY mean? You have to
                  think like a Greeek, like a Socrates or a Plato, not like a
                  Christian, or, like an anti-Christian atheist, to really GET what
                  this REALLY means. Start by asking this question about the opposite
                  kind of thing. Which part of us really is the mortal part? The soul?
                  Or the body?

                  The Phaedo isn't really about the immortality of the soul at all. It
                  is about how Socrates, himself, became immortal. Even while he was
                  still breathing!

                  Hb3g
                • eupraxis@aol.com
                  Hb3g Which part of us really is the mortal part? The soul? Or the body? Response: What in the world are you getting yourself into now?. ... The Phaedo isn t
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 3, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hb3g

                    "Which part of us really is the mortal part? The soul? Or the body?"

                    Response: What in the world are you getting yourself into now?.
                    ---
                    "The Phaedo isn't really about the immortality of the soul at all. It is
                    about how Socrates, himself, became immortal."

                    Response: Really? Is that so? What edition do you have? Mine is about the
                    immortality of the soul.

                    Wil



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