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Re: [existlist] Re: Awareness of the absurd

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  • eupraxis@aol.com
    In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@yahoo.com ... What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am always amazed by
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
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      In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@...
      writes:
      > OK, I'll admit it, I got it ["I would rather live my life as if there is a
      > God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and
      > die to find out there is" Camuc (sic)] from Wikipedia. But regardless of the
      > correct source, it is the message I like.
      >

      What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am always amazed
      by what many think comprises an existentialist position. But to (supposedly)
      get a quote from Wikapedia in response to a challenge that you have no
      background or appreciation of Camus, and to come up with this self-serving slogan for
      the brain-dead is just unforgivable. This is just one more indication that
      those dependent on God have no sense of morality when it comes to objectivity and
      intellectual conscience.

      Wil



      **************
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • louise
      ... there is a ... there isn t and ... regardless of the ... always amazed ... (supposedly) ... no ... serving slogan for ... indication that ... objectivity
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
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        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
        >
        > In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@...
        > writes:
        > > OK, I'll admit it, I got it ["I would rather live my life as if
        there is a
        > > God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if
        there isn't and
        > > die to find out there is" Camuc (sic)] from Wikipedia. But
        regardless of the
        > > correct source, it is the message I like.
        > >
        >
        > What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am
        always amazed
        > by what many think comprises an existentialist position. But to
        (supposedly)
        > get a quote from Wikapedia in response to a challenge that you have
        no
        > background or appreciation of Camus, and to come up with this self-
        serving slogan for
        > the brain-dead is just unforgivable. This is just one more
        indication that
        > those dependent on God have no sense of morality when it comes to
        objectivity and
        > intellectual conscience.
        >
        > Wil

        I know what you mean, Wil, but the confession was an honest one.
        Long live the true statement of perspective, including your own
        robust correctives. Louise
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        ... Yes, at least there was that. Wil ************** Looking for a car that s sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
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          In a message dated 8/2/08 6:02:17 PM, hecubatoher@... writes:
          > I know what you mean, Wil, but the confession was an honest one.
          >
          Yes, at least there was that.

          Wil



          **************
          Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
          Read reviews on AOL Autos.

          (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • louise
          [ALBB] I m so sorry; here you go . . . I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn t, than live my life as if there isn t
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 5, 2008
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            [ALBB]
            I'm so sorry; here you go . . .

            "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out
            there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out
            there is. Albert Camus

            [CSW]
            That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal that
            has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers,
            including Pasteur.

            "Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what
            harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false?
            If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then,
            without hesitation, that He exists."

            Louise
            From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian
            wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational
            choice, as though belief could be manufactured. Possibly it can.
            Human beings differ considerably. At any rate I can see no
            connection between what Pascal reckons to be faith, and what
            Kierkegaard means by the leap. Scepticism as a starting-point always
            has my trust. Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves
            most sound.
          • Jewel
            ... From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational choice, as though belief
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 5, 2008
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:

              From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian
              wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational
              choice, as though belief could be manufactured. Possibly it can.
              Human beings differ considerably. At any rate I can see no
              connection between what Pascal reckons to be faith, and what
              Kierkegaard means by the leap. Scepticism as a starting-point always
              has my trust. Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves
              most sound.
              **********

              Skepticism has firm footing in Camus's theory of the absurd, and who
              has greater need of it than the person about to plunge to their
              literal death? Living isn't a leap or a gamble. It might be the
              ultimate skepticism.

              "In a man's attachment to life there is something stronger than all
              the ills of the world. the body's judgment is as good as the mind's,
              and the body shrinks from annihilation. We get into the habit of
              living before acquiring the habit of thinking. In that race that daily
              hastens us towards death, the body maintains its irreparable lead. In
              short the essence of the contradiction lies in what I shall call the
              act of eluding because it is both more and less than diversion in the
              Pascalian sense. Eluding is the invariable game. The typical act of
              eluding, the fatal evasion that constitutes the third theme of this
              essay, is hope. Hope of another life one must 'deserve' or trickery of
              those who live not for life itself but for some great idea that will
              transcend it, refine it, give it meaning, and betray itÂ…The leap does
              not represent an extreme danger as Kierkegaard would like it to do.
              The danger, on the contrary, lies in the subtle instant that precedes
              the leap. Being able to remain on that dizzying crest--that is
              integrity and the rest is subterfuge. I know also that never has
              helplessness inspired such harmonies as those of Kierkegaard. But if
              helplessness has its place in the indifferent landscapes of history,
              it has none in a reasoning who exigence is now known." (Myth of
              Sisyphus, Albert Camus)

              Camus feared that existentialism, which he confused with anarchistic
              nihilism, logically led to suicide. He recognized that faith can lead
              to suicide as well; and he thought people who lived without hope for
              eternity lived more responsibly, because this life is what we have
              now. Only we can create it.

              Jewel
            • louise
              ... Fatigue at the time of composition prevented me from seeing the carelessness of this remark. In fact, I have been engaged with reading the novel,
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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                > Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves most sound.

                Fatigue at the time of composition prevented me from seeing the
                carelessness of this remark. In fact, I have been engaged with reading
                the novel, "Candide", for the second time, and meant only to express my
                appreciation for the author's genius in this respect. Although I will
                have encountered the occasional quotation from other works, there is no
                other book of his that I have read. Louise
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