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Re: Awareness of the absurd

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  • Jewel
    ... wrote: Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more Web sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned... I
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
      <existlist1@...> wrote:

      Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more Web
      sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned...

      I located this same quote attributed to C. S. Lewis, Pascal, Pasteur,
      Einstein, and several other individuals.

      And people wonder why I won't let students use Wikipedia!

      If you cannot cite the work and page, it probably isn't an accurate
      quote.
      **********

      Much philosophical literature is laced with ironic expression; nuanced
      with the absurd; hammered by hyperbole and often misappropriated by
      those who embrace an opposing idea. I've seen Nietzsche's -what does
      not kill me makes me stronger- attributed to Martin Luther King, Jr.
      and popular songwriters. And if one were to even slightly deconstruct
      the Nietzsche and Pascal quotes, especially out of context, they fall
      apart logically. Obviously, you could be made weaker by forces which
      nearly kill you. And you might live as if gods are real, yet despair,
      die and "be" oblivious to your reasons. These are merely expressions
      of authors' emotional commitment to the particular ideas they are
      defending, not literal facts.

      Now I'm out of here...wine, cheese, cherries and Cyrano in Egg Harbor.

      Jewel
    • a_living_breathing_being
      OK, I ll admit it, I got it from Wikipedia. But regardless of the correct source, it is the message I like. ... Web ... Pasteur, ... accurate ... find out ...
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
        OK, I'll admit it, I got it from Wikipedia. But regardless of the
        correct source, it is the message I like.

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
        <existlist1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more
        Web
        > sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned...
        >
        > I located this same quote attributed to C. S. Lewis, Pascal,
        Pasteur,
        > Einstein, and several other individuals.
        >
        > And people wonder why I won't let students use Wikipedia!
        >
        > If you cannot cite the work and page, it probably isn't an
        accurate
        > quote.
        >
        >
        > On Aug 01, 2008, at 21:05, Exist List Moderator wrote:
        >
        > > On Aug 01, 2008, at 1:10, a_living_breathing_being wrote:
        > >
        > >> I'm so sorry; here you go . . .
        > >>
        > >> "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to
        find out
        > >> there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find
        out
        > >> there is. Albert Camus
        > >
        > >
        > > That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal
        that
        > > has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers,
        > > including Pasteur.
        > >
        > > "Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what
        > > harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves
        false?
        > > If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager,
        then,
        > > without hesitation, that He exists."
        > >
        > > Camus never quoted this, not even in his journals, not even to
        argue
        > > against the point.
        > >
        > >
        > > - C. S. Wyatt
        > > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
        all
        > > that I shall be.
        > > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
        > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
        > > nothing!
        > >
        > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > - C. S. Wyatt
        > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
        all
        > that I shall be.
        > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
        > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
        >
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@yahoo.com ... What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am always amazed by
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
          In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@...
          writes:
          > OK, I'll admit it, I got it ["I would rather live my life as if there is a
          > God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and
          > die to find out there is" Camuc (sic)] from Wikipedia. But regardless of the
          > correct source, it is the message I like.
          >

          What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am always amazed
          by what many think comprises an existentialist position. But to (supposedly)
          get a quote from Wikapedia in response to a challenge that you have no
          background or appreciation of Camus, and to come up with this self-serving slogan for
          the brain-dead is just unforgivable. This is just one more indication that
          those dependent on God have no sense of morality when it comes to objectivity and
          intellectual conscience.

          Wil



          **************
          Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
          Read reviews on AOL Autos.

          (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • louise
          ... there is a ... there isn t and ... regardless of the ... always amazed ... (supposedly) ... no ... serving slogan for ... indication that ... objectivity
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
            >
            > In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@...
            > writes:
            > > OK, I'll admit it, I got it ["I would rather live my life as if
            there is a
            > > God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if
            there isn't and
            > > die to find out there is" Camuc (sic)] from Wikipedia. But
            regardless of the
            > > correct source, it is the message I like.
            > >
            >
            > What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am
            always amazed
            > by what many think comprises an existentialist position. But to
            (supposedly)
            > get a quote from Wikapedia in response to a challenge that you have
            no
            > background or appreciation of Camus, and to come up with this self-
            serving slogan for
            > the brain-dead is just unforgivable. This is just one more
            indication that
            > those dependent on God have no sense of morality when it comes to
            objectivity and
            > intellectual conscience.
            >
            > Wil

            I know what you mean, Wil, but the confession was an honest one.
            Long live the true statement of perspective, including your own
            robust correctives. Louise
          • eupraxis@aol.com
            ... Yes, at least there was that. Wil ************** Looking for a car that s sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
              In a message dated 8/2/08 6:02:17 PM, hecubatoher@... writes:
              > I know what you mean, Wil, but the confession was an honest one.
              >
              Yes, at least there was that.

              Wil



              **************
              Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
              Read reviews on AOL Autos.

              (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • louise
              [ALBB] I m so sorry; here you go . . . I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn t, than live my life as if there isn t
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 5, 2008
                [ALBB]
                I'm so sorry; here you go . . .

                "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out
                there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out
                there is. Albert Camus

                [CSW]
                That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal that
                has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers,
                including Pasteur.

                "Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what
                harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false?
                If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then,
                without hesitation, that He exists."

                Louise
                From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian
                wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational
                choice, as though belief could be manufactured. Possibly it can.
                Human beings differ considerably. At any rate I can see no
                connection between what Pascal reckons to be faith, and what
                Kierkegaard means by the leap. Scepticism as a starting-point always
                has my trust. Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves
                most sound.
              • Jewel
                ... From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational choice, as though belief
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 5, 2008
                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:

                  From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian
                  wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational
                  choice, as though belief could be manufactured. Possibly it can.
                  Human beings differ considerably. At any rate I can see no
                  connection between what Pascal reckons to be faith, and what
                  Kierkegaard means by the leap. Scepticism as a starting-point always
                  has my trust. Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves
                  most sound.
                  **********

                  Skepticism has firm footing in Camus's theory of the absurd, and who
                  has greater need of it than the person about to plunge to their
                  literal death? Living isn't a leap or a gamble. It might be the
                  ultimate skepticism.

                  "In a man's attachment to life there is something stronger than all
                  the ills of the world. the body's judgment is as good as the mind's,
                  and the body shrinks from annihilation. We get into the habit of
                  living before acquiring the habit of thinking. In that race that daily
                  hastens us towards death, the body maintains its irreparable lead. In
                  short the essence of the contradiction lies in what I shall call the
                  act of eluding because it is both more and less than diversion in the
                  Pascalian sense. Eluding is the invariable game. The typical act of
                  eluding, the fatal evasion that constitutes the third theme of this
                  essay, is hope. Hope of another life one must 'deserve' or trickery of
                  those who live not for life itself but for some great idea that will
                  transcend it, refine it, give it meaning, and betray itÂ…The leap does
                  not represent an extreme danger as Kierkegaard would like it to do.
                  The danger, on the contrary, lies in the subtle instant that precedes
                  the leap. Being able to remain on that dizzying crest--that is
                  integrity and the rest is subterfuge. I know also that never has
                  helplessness inspired such harmonies as those of Kierkegaard. But if
                  helplessness has its place in the indifferent landscapes of history,
                  it has none in a reasoning who exigence is now known." (Myth of
                  Sisyphus, Albert Camus)

                  Camus feared that existentialism, which he confused with anarchistic
                  nihilism, logically led to suicide. He recognized that faith can lead
                  to suicide as well; and he thought people who lived without hope for
                  eternity lived more responsibly, because this life is what we have
                  now. Only we can create it.

                  Jewel
                • louise
                  ... Fatigue at the time of composition prevented me from seeing the carelessness of this remark. In fact, I have been engaged with reading the novel,
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
                    > Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves most sound.

                    Fatigue at the time of composition prevented me from seeing the
                    carelessness of this remark. In fact, I have been engaged with reading
                    the novel, "Candide", for the second time, and meant only to express my
                    appreciation for the author's genius in this respect. Although I will
                    have encountered the occasional quotation from other works, there is no
                    other book of his that I have read. Louise
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