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Re: [existlist] Re: Awareness of the absurd

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  • Exist List Moderator
    Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more Web sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned... I located this same quote
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 1, 2008
      Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more Web
      sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned...

      I located this same quote attributed to C. S. Lewis, Pascal, Pasteur,
      Einstein, and several other individuals.

      And people wonder why I won't let students use Wikipedia!

      If you cannot cite the work and page, it probably isn't an accurate
      quote.


      On Aug 01, 2008, at 21:05, Exist List Moderator wrote:

      > On Aug 01, 2008, at 1:10, a_living_breathing_being wrote:
      >
      >> I'm so sorry; here you go . . .
      >>
      >> "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out
      >> there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out
      >> there is. Albert Camus
      >
      >
      > That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal that
      > has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers,
      > including Pasteur.
      >
      > "Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what
      > harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false?
      > If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then,
      > without hesitation, that He exists."
      >
      > Camus never quoted this, not even in his journals, not even to argue
      > against the point.
      >
      >
      > - C. S. Wyatt
      > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
      > that I shall be.
      > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
      > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
      > nothing!
      >
      > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >

      - C. S. Wyatt
      I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
      that I shall be.
      http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
      http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
    • Jewel
      ... wrote: Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more Web sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned... I
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
        <existlist1@...> wrote:

        Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more Web
        sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned...

        I located this same quote attributed to C. S. Lewis, Pascal, Pasteur,
        Einstein, and several other individuals.

        And people wonder why I won't let students use Wikipedia!

        If you cannot cite the work and page, it probably isn't an accurate
        quote.
        **********

        Much philosophical literature is laced with ironic expression; nuanced
        with the absurd; hammered by hyperbole and often misappropriated by
        those who embrace an opposing idea. I've seen Nietzsche's -what does
        not kill me makes me stronger- attributed to Martin Luther King, Jr.
        and popular songwriters. And if one were to even slightly deconstruct
        the Nietzsche and Pascal quotes, especially out of context, they fall
        apart logically. Obviously, you could be made weaker by forces which
        nearly kill you. And you might live as if gods are real, yet despair,
        die and "be" oblivious to your reasons. These are merely expressions
        of authors' emotional commitment to the particular ideas they are
        defending, not literal facts.

        Now I'm out of here...wine, cheese, cherries and Cyrano in Egg Harbor.

        Jewel
      • a_living_breathing_being
        OK, I ll admit it, I got it from Wikipedia. But regardless of the correct source, it is the message I like. ... Web ... Pasteur, ... accurate ... find out ...
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
          OK, I'll admit it, I got it from Wikipedia. But regardless of the
          correct source, it is the message I like.

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
          <existlist1@...> wrote:
          >
          > Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more
          Web
          > sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned...
          >
          > I located this same quote attributed to C. S. Lewis, Pascal,
          Pasteur,
          > Einstein, and several other individuals.
          >
          > And people wonder why I won't let students use Wikipedia!
          >
          > If you cannot cite the work and page, it probably isn't an
          accurate
          > quote.
          >
          >
          > On Aug 01, 2008, at 21:05, Exist List Moderator wrote:
          >
          > > On Aug 01, 2008, at 1:10, a_living_breathing_being wrote:
          > >
          > >> I'm so sorry; here you go . . .
          > >>
          > >> "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to
          find out
          > >> there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find
          out
          > >> there is. Albert Camus
          > >
          > >
          > > That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal
          that
          > > has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers,
          > > including Pasteur.
          > >
          > > "Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what
          > > harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves
          false?
          > > If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager,
          then,
          > > without hesitation, that He exists."
          > >
          > > Camus never quoted this, not even in his journals, not even to
          argue
          > > against the point.
          > >
          > >
          > > - C. S. Wyatt
          > > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
          all
          > > that I shall be.
          > > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
          > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          > > nothing!
          > >
          > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > - C. S. Wyatt
          > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
          all
          > that I shall be.
          > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
          > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
          >
        • eupraxis@aol.com
          In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@yahoo.com ... What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am always amazed by
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
            In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@...
            writes:
            > OK, I'll admit it, I got it ["I would rather live my life as if there is a
            > God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and
            > die to find out there is" Camuc (sic)] from Wikipedia. But regardless of the
            > correct source, it is the message I like.
            >

            What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am always amazed
            by what many think comprises an existentialist position. But to (supposedly)
            get a quote from Wikapedia in response to a challenge that you have no
            background or appreciation of Camus, and to come up with this self-serving slogan for
            the brain-dead is just unforgivable. This is just one more indication that
            those dependent on God have no sense of morality when it comes to objectivity and
            intellectual conscience.

            Wil



            **************
            Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
            Read reviews on AOL Autos.

            (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • louise
            ... there is a ... there isn t and ... regardless of the ... always amazed ... (supposedly) ... no ... serving slogan for ... indication that ... objectivity
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
              >
              > In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@...
              > writes:
              > > OK, I'll admit it, I got it ["I would rather live my life as if
              there is a
              > > God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if
              there isn't and
              > > die to find out there is" Camuc (sic)] from Wikipedia. But
              regardless of the
              > > correct source, it is the message I like.
              > >
              >
              > What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am
              always amazed
              > by what many think comprises an existentialist position. But to
              (supposedly)
              > get a quote from Wikapedia in response to a challenge that you have
              no
              > background or appreciation of Camus, and to come up with this self-
              serving slogan for
              > the brain-dead is just unforgivable. This is just one more
              indication that
              > those dependent on God have no sense of morality when it comes to
              objectivity and
              > intellectual conscience.
              >
              > Wil

              I know what you mean, Wil, but the confession was an honest one.
              Long live the true statement of perspective, including your own
              robust correctives. Louise
            • eupraxis@aol.com
              ... Yes, at least there was that. Wil ************** Looking for a car that s sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 2, 2008
                In a message dated 8/2/08 6:02:17 PM, hecubatoher@... writes:
                > I know what you mean, Wil, but the confession was an honest one.
                >
                Yes, at least there was that.

                Wil



                **************
                Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                Read reviews on AOL Autos.

                (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • louise
                [ALBB] I m so sorry; here you go . . . I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn t, than live my life as if there isn t
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 5, 2008
                  [ALBB]
                  I'm so sorry; here you go . . .

                  "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out
                  there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out
                  there is. Albert Camus

                  [CSW]
                  That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal that
                  has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers,
                  including Pasteur.

                  "Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what
                  harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false?
                  If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then,
                  without hesitation, that He exists."

                  Louise
                  From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian
                  wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational
                  choice, as though belief could be manufactured. Possibly it can.
                  Human beings differ considerably. At any rate I can see no
                  connection between what Pascal reckons to be faith, and what
                  Kierkegaard means by the leap. Scepticism as a starting-point always
                  has my trust. Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves
                  most sound.
                • Jewel
                  ... From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational choice, as though belief
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 5, 2008
                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:

                    From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian
                    wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational
                    choice, as though belief could be manufactured. Possibly it can.
                    Human beings differ considerably. At any rate I can see no
                    connection between what Pascal reckons to be faith, and what
                    Kierkegaard means by the leap. Scepticism as a starting-point always
                    has my trust. Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves
                    most sound.
                    **********

                    Skepticism has firm footing in Camus's theory of the absurd, and who
                    has greater need of it than the person about to plunge to their
                    literal death? Living isn't a leap or a gamble. It might be the
                    ultimate skepticism.

                    "In a man's attachment to life there is something stronger than all
                    the ills of the world. the body's judgment is as good as the mind's,
                    and the body shrinks from annihilation. We get into the habit of
                    living before acquiring the habit of thinking. In that race that daily
                    hastens us towards death, the body maintains its irreparable lead. In
                    short the essence of the contradiction lies in what I shall call the
                    act of eluding because it is both more and less than diversion in the
                    Pascalian sense. Eluding is the invariable game. The typical act of
                    eluding, the fatal evasion that constitutes the third theme of this
                    essay, is hope. Hope of another life one must 'deserve' or trickery of
                    those who live not for life itself but for some great idea that will
                    transcend it, refine it, give it meaning, and betray itÂ…The leap does
                    not represent an extreme danger as Kierkegaard would like it to do.
                    The danger, on the contrary, lies in the subtle instant that precedes
                    the leap. Being able to remain on that dizzying crest--that is
                    integrity and the rest is subterfuge. I know also that never has
                    helplessness inspired such harmonies as those of Kierkegaard. But if
                    helplessness has its place in the indifferent landscapes of history,
                    it has none in a reasoning who exigence is now known." (Myth of
                    Sisyphus, Albert Camus)

                    Camus feared that existentialism, which he confused with anarchistic
                    nihilism, logically led to suicide. He recognized that faith can lead
                    to suicide as well; and he thought people who lived without hope for
                    eternity lived more responsibly, because this life is what we have
                    now. Only we can create it.

                    Jewel
                  • louise
                    ... Fatigue at the time of composition prevented me from seeing the carelessness of this remark. In fact, I have been engaged with reading the novel,
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
                      > Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves most sound.

                      Fatigue at the time of composition prevented me from seeing the
                      carelessness of this remark. In fact, I have been engaged with reading
                      the novel, "Candide", for the second time, and meant only to express my
                      appreciation for the author's genius in this respect. Although I will
                      have encountered the occasional quotation from other works, there is no
                      other book of his that I have read. Louise
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