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Re: Awareness of the absurd

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  • a_living_breathing_being
    I m so sorry; here you go . . . I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn t, than live my life as if there isn t and die
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 31, 2008
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      I'm so sorry; here you go . . .

      "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out
      there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out
      there is. Albert Camus



      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
      <existlist1@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Jul 31, 2008, at 17:16, Jewel wrote:
      >
      > > ALBB:
      > >
      > > You don't recognize the works of Camus or Joyce and you want to
      argue
      > > absurdism?
      >
      >
      > Glad I'm not the only person to immediately think... about time
      > someone quoted the literature!
      >
      > - C. S. Wyatt
      > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
      all
      > that I shall be.
      > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
      > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
      >
    • Exist List Moderator
      ... That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal that has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers, including Pasteur.
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 1 7:05 PM
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        On Aug 01, 2008, at 1:10, a_living_breathing_being wrote:

        > I'm so sorry; here you go . . .
        >
        > "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out
        > there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out
        > there is. Albert Camus


        That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal that
        has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers,
        including Pasteur.

        "Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what
        harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false?
        If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then,
        without hesitation, that He exists."

        Camus never quoted this, not even in his journals, not even to argue
        against the point.


        - C. S. Wyatt
        I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
        that I shall be.
        http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
        http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
      • Exist List Moderator
        Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more Web sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned... I located this same quote
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 1 7:21 PM
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          Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more Web
          sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned...

          I located this same quote attributed to C. S. Lewis, Pascal, Pasteur,
          Einstein, and several other individuals.

          And people wonder why I won't let students use Wikipedia!

          If you cannot cite the work and page, it probably isn't an accurate
          quote.


          On Aug 01, 2008, at 21:05, Exist List Moderator wrote:

          > On Aug 01, 2008, at 1:10, a_living_breathing_being wrote:
          >
          >> I'm so sorry; here you go . . .
          >>
          >> "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out
          >> there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out
          >> there is. Albert Camus
          >
          >
          > That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal that
          > has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers,
          > including Pasteur.
          >
          > "Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what
          > harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false?
          > If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then,
          > without hesitation, that He exists."
          >
          > Camus never quoted this, not even in his journals, not even to argue
          > against the point.
          >
          >
          > - C. S. Wyatt
          > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
          > that I shall be.
          > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
          > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          > nothing!
          >
          > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >

          - C. S. Wyatt
          I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
          that I shall be.
          http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
          http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
        • Jewel
          ... wrote: Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more Web sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned... I
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 2 8:22 AM
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            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
            <existlist1@...> wrote:

            Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more Web
            sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned...

            I located this same quote attributed to C. S. Lewis, Pascal, Pasteur,
            Einstein, and several other individuals.

            And people wonder why I won't let students use Wikipedia!

            If you cannot cite the work and page, it probably isn't an accurate
            quote.
            **********

            Much philosophical literature is laced with ironic expression; nuanced
            with the absurd; hammered by hyperbole and often misappropriated by
            those who embrace an opposing idea. I've seen Nietzsche's -what does
            not kill me makes me stronger- attributed to Martin Luther King, Jr.
            and popular songwriters. And if one were to even slightly deconstruct
            the Nietzsche and Pascal quotes, especially out of context, they fall
            apart logically. Obviously, you could be made weaker by forces which
            nearly kill you. And you might live as if gods are real, yet despair,
            die and "be" oblivious to your reasons. These are merely expressions
            of authors' emotional commitment to the particular ideas they are
            defending, not literal facts.

            Now I'm out of here...wine, cheese, cherries and Cyrano in Egg Harbor.

            Jewel
          • a_living_breathing_being
            OK, I ll admit it, I got it from Wikipedia. But regardless of the correct source, it is the message I like. ... Web ... Pasteur, ... accurate ... find out ...
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 2 8:35 AM
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              OK, I'll admit it, I got it from Wikipedia. But regardless of the
              correct source, it is the message I like.

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
              <existlist1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Wow, I am further astonished to find that at least a dozen or more
              Web
              > sites list this as a Camus quote. I am beyond stunned...
              >
              > I located this same quote attributed to C. S. Lewis, Pascal,
              Pasteur,
              > Einstein, and several other individuals.
              >
              > And people wonder why I won't let students use Wikipedia!
              >
              > If you cannot cite the work and page, it probably isn't an
              accurate
              > quote.
              >
              >
              > On Aug 01, 2008, at 21:05, Exist List Moderator wrote:
              >
              > > On Aug 01, 2008, at 1:10, a_living_breathing_being wrote:
              > >
              > >> I'm so sorry; here you go . . .
              > >>
              > >> "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to
              find out
              > >> there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find
              out
              > >> there is. Albert Camus
              > >
              > >
              > > That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal
              that
              > > has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers,
              > > including Pasteur.
              > >
              > > "Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what
              > > harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves
              false?
              > > If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager,
              then,
              > > without hesitation, that He exists."
              > >
              > > Camus never quoted this, not even in his journals, not even to
              argue
              > > against the point.
              > >
              > >
              > > - C. S. Wyatt
              > > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
              all
              > > that I shall be.
              > > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
              > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
              > > nothing!
              > >
              > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > - C. S. Wyatt
              > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
              all
              > that I shall be.
              > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
              > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
              >
            • eupraxis@aol.com
              In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@yahoo.com ... What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am always amazed by
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 2 12:30 PM
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                In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@...
                writes:
                > OK, I'll admit it, I got it ["I would rather live my life as if there is a
                > God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and
                > die to find out there is" Camuc (sic)] from Wikipedia. But regardless of the
                > correct source, it is the message I like.
                >

                What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am always amazed
                by what many think comprises an existentialist position. But to (supposedly)
                get a quote from Wikapedia in response to a challenge that you have no
                background or appreciation of Camus, and to come up with this self-serving slogan for
                the brain-dead is just unforgivable. This is just one more indication that
                those dependent on God have no sense of morality when it comes to objectivity and
                intellectual conscience.

                Wil



                **************
                Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                Read reviews on AOL Autos.

                (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • louise
                ... there is a ... there isn t and ... regardless of the ... always amazed ... (supposedly) ... no ... serving slogan for ... indication that ... objectivity
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 2 4:00 PM
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                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
                  >
                  > In a message dated 8/2/08 10:36:00 AM, a_living_breathing_being@...
                  > writes:
                  > > OK, I'll admit it, I got it ["I would rather live my life as if
                  there is a
                  > > God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if
                  there isn't and
                  > > die to find out there is" Camuc (sic)] from Wikipedia. But
                  regardless of the
                  > > correct source, it is the message I like.
                  > >
                  >
                  > What a statement of bad faith and intellectual cowardice! I am
                  always amazed
                  > by what many think comprises an existentialist position. But to
                  (supposedly)
                  > get a quote from Wikapedia in response to a challenge that you have
                  no
                  > background or appreciation of Camus, and to come up with this self-
                  serving slogan for
                  > the brain-dead is just unforgivable. This is just one more
                  indication that
                  > those dependent on God have no sense of morality when it comes to
                  objectivity and
                  > intellectual conscience.
                  >
                  > Wil

                  I know what you mean, Wil, but the confession was an honest one.
                  Long live the true statement of perspective, including your own
                  robust correctives. Louise
                • eupraxis@aol.com
                  ... Yes, at least there was that. Wil ************** Looking for a car that s sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 2 4:50 PM
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                    In a message dated 8/2/08 6:02:17 PM, hecubatoher@... writes:
                    > I know what you mean, Wil, but the confession was an honest one.
                    >
                    Yes, at least there was that.

                    Wil



                    **************
                    Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                    Read reviews on AOL Autos.

                    (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • louise
                    [ALBB] I m so sorry; here you go . . . I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn t, than live my life as if there isn t
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 5 3:37 AM
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                      [ALBB]
                      I'm so sorry; here you go . . .

                      "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out
                      there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out
                      there is. Albert Camus

                      [CSW]
                      That is not a Camus quote -- It is a paraphrase of Blaise Pascal that
                      has taken numerous forms and been quoted by several thinkers,
                      including Pasteur.

                      "Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what
                      harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false?
                      If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then,
                      without hesitation, that He exists."

                      Louise
                      From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian
                      wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational
                      choice, as though belief could be manufactured. Possibly it can.
                      Human beings differ considerably. At any rate I can see no
                      connection between what Pascal reckons to be faith, and what
                      Kierkegaard means by the leap. Scepticism as a starting-point always
                      has my trust. Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves
                      most sound.
                    • Jewel
                      ... From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational choice, as though belief
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 5 8:51 AM
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                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:

                        From an aesthetic point of view, I have always found the Pascalian
                        wager quite repulsive. To gamble on truth is to make a rational
                        choice, as though belief could be manufactured. Possibly it can.
                        Human beings differ considerably. At any rate I can see no
                        connection between what Pascal reckons to be faith, and what
                        Kierkegaard means by the leap. Scepticism as a starting-point always
                        has my trust. Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves
                        most sound.
                        **********

                        Skepticism has firm footing in Camus's theory of the absurd, and who
                        has greater need of it than the person about to plunge to their
                        literal death? Living isn't a leap or a gamble. It might be the
                        ultimate skepticism.

                        "In a man's attachment to life there is something stronger than all
                        the ills of the world. the body's judgment is as good as the mind's,
                        and the body shrinks from annihilation. We get into the habit of
                        living before acquiring the habit of thinking. In that race that daily
                        hastens us towards death, the body maintains its irreparable lead. In
                        short the essence of the contradiction lies in what I shall call the
                        act of eluding because it is both more and less than diversion in the
                        Pascalian sense. Eluding is the invariable game. The typical act of
                        eluding, the fatal evasion that constitutes the third theme of this
                        essay, is hope. Hope of another life one must 'deserve' or trickery of
                        those who live not for life itself but for some great idea that will
                        transcend it, refine it, give it meaning, and betray itÂ…The leap does
                        not represent an extreme danger as Kierkegaard would like it to do.
                        The danger, on the contrary, lies in the subtle instant that precedes
                        the leap. Being able to remain on that dizzying crest--that is
                        integrity and the rest is subterfuge. I know also that never has
                        helplessness inspired such harmonies as those of Kierkegaard. But if
                        helplessness has its place in the indifferent landscapes of history,
                        it has none in a reasoning who exigence is now known." (Myth of
                        Sisyphus, Albert Camus)

                        Camus feared that existentialism, which he confused with anarchistic
                        nihilism, logically led to suicide. He recognized that faith can lead
                        to suicide as well; and he thought people who lived without hope for
                        eternity lived more responsibly, because this life is what we have
                        now. Only we can create it.

                        Jewel
                      • louise
                        ... Fatigue at the time of composition prevented me from seeing the carelessness of this remark. In fact, I have been engaged with reading the novel,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 6 2:08 PM
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                          > Even when Voltaire is not enjoyable to read, he proves most sound.

                          Fatigue at the time of composition prevented me from seeing the
                          carelessness of this remark. In fact, I have been engaged with reading
                          the novel, "Candide", for the second time, and meant only to express my
                          appreciation for the author's genius in this respect. Although I will
                          have encountered the occasional quotation from other works, there is no
                          other book of his that I have read. Louise
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