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Re: Wired for Dynimite

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  • louise
    Mary, I continue to find rather elusive this theme to which you periodically return. What exactly is this will to ignorance ?? How the heck can you be so
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 17, 2008
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      Mary,

      I continue to find rather elusive this theme to which you periodically
      return. What exactly is this "will to ignorance"?? How the heck can
      you be so sure about what passes in the mind of another existing being??

      Louise

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <mary.jo11@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Herman B. Triplegood" <hb3g@>
      > wrote: But questioning is also an existential pisition to take, and so
      > is being skeptical,
      >
      > Thank you. I've greatly enjoyed many recent postings on this list.
      > Wrestling with Sartre's "Truth and Existence" has confirmed this for
      > me. Skepticism and the will towards knowledge go hand in hand.
      > Verification is a process, and truth can change. Omnia mutantur. The
      > will to ignorance is far worse than being wrong. The former is
      > intentional; the latter an accident, though the outcomes may appear
      > similar. Sartre thankfully couldn't define truth for me, but when he
      > or you challenges it, I know what it isn't-ignorance.
      >
      > Mary
      >
    • mary.jo11
      Louise, It s from Sartre s Truth and Existence, and the translation of the word ignorance is rendered from the French to ignore, not the word which
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 17, 2008
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        Louise,

        It's from Sartre's "Truth and Existence," and the translation of the
        word "ignorance" is rendered from the French "to ignore," not the word
        which implies stupidity or dullness. He develops the theme of people
        who choose to ignore, those who intend to avoid knowledge because of
        the responsibility it requires. One knows when one chooses to ignore :)

        Mary
      • louise
        ... the ... word ... people ... of ... ignore :) ... Maybe one does, but I am none the wiser :-). Might as well blame my dullness, since it blocks the
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 17, 2008
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          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <mary.jo11@...> wrote:
          >
          > Louise,
          >
          > It's from Sartre's "Truth and Existence," and the translation of
          the
          > word "ignorance" is rendered from the French "to ignore," not the
          word
          > which implies stupidity or dullness. He develops the theme of
          people
          > who choose to ignore, those who intend to avoid knowledge because
          of
          > the responsibility it requires. One knows when one chooses to
          ignore :)
          >
          > Mary
          >

          Maybe 'one' does, but I am none the wiser :-). Might as well blame
          my dullness, since it blocks the temptation to blame anyone else, or
          even myself. Possibly the deep intelligence of the brain is choosing
          to ignore without letting me know. Am such a child of Necessity,
          anyway.

          Philosophic Castaway
        • Herman B. Triplegood
          Mary: I think what you say about skepticism is quite right. But why is it right? Why do we will towards knowledge? It isn t just about being free from
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 17, 2008
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            Mary:

            I think what you say about skepticism is quite right. But why is it
            right? Why do we will towards knowledge? It isn't just about being free
            from ignorance. Right? It is really about freedom itself. We will
            towards knowledge, because we must. Because, only in that way, can we
            translate freedom into actuality.

            What do you think?

            Hb3g

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <mary.jo11@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Herman B. Triplegood" <hb3g@>
            > wrote: But questioning is also an existential pisition to take, and so
            > is being skeptical,
            >
            > Thank you. I've greatly enjoyed many recent postings on this list.
            > Wrestling with Sartre's "Truth and Existence" has confirmed this for
            > me. Skepticism and the will towards knowledge go hand in hand.
            > Verification is a process, and truth can change. Omnia mutantur. The
            > will to ignorance is far worse than being wrong. The former is
            > intentional; the latter an accident, though the outcomes may appear
            > similar. Sartre thankfully couldn't define truth for me, but when he
            > or you challenges it, I know what it isn't-ignorance.
            >
            > Mary
            >
          • mary.jo11
            Not thinking too deeply this morning, but why knowledge? why freedom? To survive, to thrive. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... Mary ... wrote:
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 18, 2008
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              Not thinking too deeply this morning, but why knowledge? why freedom?
              To survive, to thrive. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...

              Mary

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Herman B. Triplegood" <hb3g@...>
              wrote:

              Mary: Why do we will towards knowledge? It isn't just about being free
              from ignorance. Right? It is really about freedom itself. We will
              towards knowledge, because we must. Because, only in that way, can we
              translate freedom into actuality.

              What do you think?
            • Aija Veldre Beldavs
              ... Why is it that people feel free to say and do things on the Internet that they would never say or do in real life? Maybe the distinction between
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 19, 2008
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                > I think what you say about skepticism is quite right. But why is it
                > right? Why do we will towards knowledge? It isn't just about being free
                > from ignorance. Right? It is really about freedom itself. We will
                > towards knowledge, because we must. Because, only in that way, can we
                > translate freedom into actuality.

                "Why is it that people "feel free" to say and do things on the
                Internet that they would never say or do in real life? Maybe the
                distinction between "Internet" and "real life" IS the problem. Is
                that a problem with the Internet? Or is it a problem with real life?
                Or with the people? I don't know.
                Hb3g"

                if a proto-form of ethics/ fairness is observable in animals, and people
                vary as to exploratory behavior for its own sake and risk taking, all
                humans construct their own balance between security and openness.
                quality of life perception is related to having a sense of making a
                difference as to behavior being related to outcome and improvement.

                rather than actual communities most virtual spaces are better defined as
                consumer groups made up of people sharing similar interests or
                ideologies. a second-life or other internet community may be more
                meaningful to some people than their "mundane" real-life world and there
                are shut-ins and others whose real-life interactions are limited, but if
                a family member gets sick, the virtual soup sent over by neighbors
                defined in space doesn't have the same effect. also in a small
                face-to-face community there is a sense of commitment that has a richer
                and more lasting sense. because a virtual community is based on common
                temporary interest, it isn't as diverse as most face-to-face communities
                where people of different interests have to cooperate. in this list, if
                i remember correctly, someone said there are hundreds of subscribers,
                but only a half dozen or have time or feel like posting regularly. but
                there are groups, not only gamers, where most or all subscribers
                participate.

                aija
              • Aija Veldre Beldavs
                ... Europe has been working on a plan to reduce energy consumption by 20% plus alternative energy reducing oil consumption by another 20% by 2020. in Germany
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 26, 2008
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                  > You know what Winston Churchill once said? Right? We now live in the
                  > age of consequences. Ain't that the truth. And we are mostly
                  > oblivious to what those consequences might actually end up being.
                  > Like, for instance, mass famine and a breakdown of society on a scale
                  > whcich will make the Holocaust look like just the opening act in the
                  > unraveling of humanity's humanity. Who knows?
                  > Hb3g

                  Europe has been working on a plan to reduce energy consumption by 20%
                  plus alternative energy reducing oil consumption by another 20% by 2020.
                  in Germany new housing has solar paneling, etc. Norway is being very
                  careful with its energy reserves and has created a seed bank. all this
                  while in the States we have been busy with other "priorities."

                  but it hasn't always been so with Europe, no stranger to sacrificing
                  "unimportant peoples" for a "greater good" & therefore collaborating
                  with evil.

                  perhaps it would help to look at those who have studied Soviet
                  socialism, seeing it as connected ideologically to the national
                  socialist at its root in their commonality of believing that certain
                  groups had to be eliminated (class for the first, race for the second -
                  both concepts that can now with scientific evidence be easily
                  deconstructed) to achieve utopia for either a presumed superior society
                  or an elite group of people (check out the film The Soviet Story: "It
                  was a dream that captivated millions, it was a vision that haunted
                  nations, it was mankind's greatest desire until the day it became
                  reality.") the mentality of Manifest Destiny, part of the same
                  ideology, lives on.

                  needless to mention, Arthur Koestler in -Darkness at Noon-, among
                  others, addresses what goes on in different levels & types of
                  collaborationist mentalities, which are willing to accept justifying the
                  end by the means as imagined beneficiaries, or else fatalistically
                  believing "human nature" will not allow a humane society.

                  aija
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