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Re: Fate Versus Determinism

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  • bhvwd
    ... of The Scream . Upon mounting it on the wall with all the other masks from all over the western hemisphere, I noticed it was one of the two non stoic
    Message 1 of 9 , May 1, 2008
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      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <ophiuchus@...> wrote:
      >
      > How fortunate for you.
      >
      > Mary
      > Mary, We just returned from California and purchased a wall mask
      of " The Scream". Upon mounting it on the wall with all the other
      masks from all over the western hemisphere, I noticed it was one of
      the two non stoic representations. The other highly animated mask was a
      Mexican modern mask. All the rest were highly stoic with fixed
      expressions of centered passivity.
      I do not put this forth as science but as observation as the
      selections were only rough approximations of what we thought
      representative of the peoples we have encountered in our travels. It
      seems the more ancient the culture of the mask the more stoney the
      face. Only the very modern Mexican and the supposed" existential
      scream " deviated from the fixed faced stoics. I do not attempt
      stoicism and the expression of my existential mood is highly motovated.
      If our art mirrors our life we existentialists are wildly expressive
      relative to our older philosophical predecissors. I think we are the
      first philosophy to identify our situation as dire and horrifying. We
      do not que up ,all stone faced. Bill
      > "Herman B. Triplegood" <hb3g@> wrote:
      >
      > But, maybe this is just my axe to grind, right here. I am a very pro-
      > stoic kind of guy, and I tend to believe that just about all
      > philosophers, even the existentialist ones, even Ayn Rand, are really
      > just stoics deep down inside. Stoicism is, really, a pervasive
      > psychological orientation, and it is very characteristic of our
      > modernity.
      >
    • jimstuart51
      Hb3g, Yes, it all depends what one takes `care free to mean. I also think it matters how one interprets `being indifferent . I think there is one sense in
      Message 2 of 9 , May 1, 2008
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        Hb3g,

        Yes, it all depends what one takes `care free' to mean.

        I also think it matters how one interprets `being indifferent'. I
        think there is one sense in which Nietzsche was not indifferent to
        existence, and another sense in which he was indifferent to existence.

        Like you say, he was not indifferent to existence in the sense that
        he passionately said `yes' to existence, rejoicing in the fact that
        he was alive and the world was the way it was.

        However, in another sense, I would say that he was indifferent to
        existence in that he had no desire to change things. (He also had no
        desire to try to stop other people trying to change things.) He did
        not wrestle with his own fate, he was happy with the way things were.

        So, in sum, Nietzsche was not indifferent to existence as a whole -
        as you say he positively affirmed existence with a great passion. He
        was, however, indifferent to the details of existence – he was not a
        person to go out of his way to bring about change. He seemed
        remarkably indifferent to the lives of other people.

        One other point: You write "Nietzsche was imprisoned within his own
        solitude, and his sickness." I think this is misleading. Nietzsche
        did not choose to suffer from ill health, but he certainly did choose
        to live his middle years (up until his breakdown) in solitude. So
        perhaps at times, Nietzsche was imprisoned by his ill health, but I
        do not think his solitude constituted a prison in any sense.

        But these are fairly minor points. I think that in the main we agree
        in our interpretations of Nietzsche.

        Jim
      • mary.jo11
        ... I think we are the first philosophy to identify our situation as dire and horrifying. We do not que up ,all stone faced. Bill Indeed. I see existentialism
        Message 3 of 9 , May 1, 2008
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          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:

          I think we are the first philosophy to identify our situation as dire
          and horrifying. We do not que up ,all stone faced. Bill

          Indeed. I see existentialism as the antithesis of stoicism, which is
          little more than the will to ignorance of anything beyond our local
          situation.

          Mary
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