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Re: [existlist] Autistic Minds

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  • Joe Mele
    Just to clarify - Autistics celebrate autistic pride day on June 18. Autism world day is a concept developed and supported by curbies like autism speaks that
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 8, 2008
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      Just to clarify - Autistics celebrate autistic pride day on June 18. Autism
      world day is a concept developed and supported by curbies like autism speaks
      that seek to wipe autistics from the face of the earth. Autistic genocide
      is real issue.

      "Nothing about us without us!"
      theasman.blogspot.com

      On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 12:54 PM, mary.jo11 <ophiuchus@...> wrote:

      > Since it's World Autism Day, I'm wondering about these unique minds
      > which are challenging science and impacting families/communities. How
      > does the concept of philosophical phenomenology apply? I can't even
      > imagine all the ethical implications as this highly "afflicted"
      > generation comes of age. Hopefully our own C.S. Wyatt will share his
      > doctoral thesis when appropriate.
      >
      > Mary
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Exist List Moderator
      ... I do tire of people asking if I want to be cured or made whole based on any physical / neurological conditions I might have. No, I happen to think my
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 8, 2008
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        On Apr 08, 2008, at 9:30, Joe Mele wrote:
        > Just to clarify - Autistics celebrate autistic pride day on June 18.
        > Autism
        > world day is a concept developed and supported by curbies like
        > autism speaks
        > that seek to wipe autistics from the face of the earth. Autistic
        > genocide
        > is real issue.


        I do tire of people asking if I want to be "cured" or "made whole"
        based on any physical / neurological conditions I might have. No, I
        happen to think my abilities with computer code (ComputerWorld has
        covered this aspect of autism since the early 1990s), database design,
        and pattern recognition are unique skills.

        Giving parents genetic screening tools, as is mandated in Minnesota,
        is a way to eliminate the "unfit" before they are born and become an
        expense. The new "eugenics" movement is to screen ahead, tell parents,
        "Oh, there's a 70% chance of condition x," and encourage termination.

        Minnesota now screens for more than 50 conditions. Our state is
        considering "single payer" health care, with "incentives" to reduce
        costs. In the UK, one incentive from the NHS is to pay parents to
        terminate -- in the name of the common good, of course.

        The Government, we're here to help. Assuming you are not flawed, of
        course.

        - C. S. Wyatt
        I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
        that I shall be.
        http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
        http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
      • Susan Schnelbach
        I don t think he meant 1 in 3 to 1 in 7 males is autistic. I believe he meant that for every 1 female diagnosed with as autistic there are 3 to 7 males
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 11, 2008
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          I don't think he meant 1 in 3 to 1 in 7 males is autistic. I believe
          he meant that for every 1 female diagnosed with as autistic there are
          3 to 7 males diagnosed.

          - Susan

          On Apr 4, 2008, at 9:26 AM, bhvwd wrote:

          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
          > <existlist1@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > On Apr 03, 2008, at 9:49, bhvwd wrote:
          > > > I am beginning to have some very disturbing thoughts about the
          > malady
          > > > but the numbers become most important in planning any response
          > to the
          > > > phenominon. Is it equally spread over ethnic groups, races,
          > religions
          > > > and geographic areas? Are there socio economic groups who
          > experience
          > > > higher numbers?
          > >
          > > While we know ASDs are diagnosed at a much higher rate in males
          > (1:3
          > > to 1:7), there is not a clear ethnic bias. Rumors to the contrary,
          > > autism does exist in groups that do not get vaccines, do not live
          > in
          > > cities, do not eat commercial crops, etc. (There was
          > a "journalist"
          > > who reported there was no autism among the Amish -- he didn't
          > bother
          > > to find out they don't get medical diagnoses and don't file for
          > social
          > > services. Once a study was done, we also found seizure disorders,
          > > retardation, and everything else that afflicts humans.)
          > >
          > > The "rich" and those best educated are most likely to have
          > children
          > > diagnosed with autism. Again, this goes to the availability of
          > > resources and not an actual increase in incidence.
          > >
          > > The "autism epidemic" is about awareness, most likely. In
          > Minnesota, I
          > > have charted the increase in "autism" against a marked decrease in
          > > "retardation" and the charts are precisely related. As autism
          > > diagnoses increased, retardation declined. It's all about
          > words....
          > > which is very in tune with phenomenology and words leading to
          > > experiences.
          > >
          > > > I think CSW probably knows where I am headed with this and He may
          > > > chastise me for even thinking autism is a genetic response to
          > general
          > > > overcrowding of the human species.
          > >
          > > If anything, I wonder about the risks implicit in a group that is
          > just
          > > two or three steps removed from sociopathy. Thankfully, autism
          > leads
          > > to a "black and white" morality, and no one knows why. Instead
          > of "I
          > > can do anything, since you don't exist," the autistic mind seems
          > to
          > > insist upon rigid adherence to rules and order. These rules are
          > not
          > > the same as laws, so our move is to make ASD students understand
          > there
          > > are illogical rules they must follow. Okay... this isn't much
          > better
          > > if we look at what fascism would do with perfect law-abiding
          > > individuals. "I was just following the law" is not much better
          > than
          > > sociopathy in some cases.
          > >
          > > Trying to teach social awareness to ASD students has led to a
          > number
          > > of books on the topic. There is a scale we use, too. The teaching
          > > includes "A '5' is illegal." You end up hoping the ASD student
          > > memorizes enough rules to stay out of trouble. Their B&W morality
          > > would be a good thing, if it didn't lead to legal conflicts.
          > >
          > > - C. S. Wyatt
          > > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
          > all
          > > that I shall be.
          > > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
          > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
          > >CSW, Those numbers are staggering, if one in three males are
          > affected we are looking at a world shattering event. A wounded
          > soldied is considered much more valuable to an adversarys victory
          > than a clean KIA. If you are talking about a 1/3 walking wounded
          > rate the casualties will bring us down.
          > Since your most affective reply I have looked at some other theories
          > about the pathogenisis of the syndrome. Some are looking for some
          > trigger mechanisms that set off a predisposing genetic proclivity.
          > Much like carcinogenic agents in malignant disease ,a chemical agent,
          > virus, bacterium or prion might turn on a genetic sequence bringing
          > on the symptoms of the disorder. Very little has been found.
          > it seems we must try to identify the specific genes involved.
          > Developing a test, especially in utero, leads to moral and
          > political debates.
          > Before we start that grueling process we need know much more adout
          > all of this and such science runs its slow , particular course. As in
          > the case of homosexuality it has taken half a century to field a
          > research group given authority to even study the situation. If your
          > numbers hold true the dissociation of the present population will
          > force a quicker, more fully funded research effort.
          > Those like yourself seem most potent in slowing the progress of
          > a "us' and "them mentality that solves nothing. Bill
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Exist List Moderator
          ... First, as Susan correctly clarified, I meant that for every female diagnosed, three to seven males are, depending on the state or country. Part of the
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 12, 2008
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            On Apr 04, 2008, at 9:26, bhvwd wrote:
            > Before we start that grueling process we need know much more adout
            > all of this and such science runs its slow , particular course.


            First, as Susan correctly clarified, I meant that for every female
            diagnosed, three to seven males are, depending on the state or
            country. Part of the problem is that autism is a descriptive term: it
            might be describing any of several underlying conditions. Every region
            seems to have its own definition of what is an "autistic" personality.

            As for science...

            Indeed, science is slow and makes mistakes along the way. We test and
            retest theories. Even once established as the accepted theory,
            scientific "knowledge" can be challenged. Witness how well Newton and
            Einstein held up, but there are "flaws" in even their great works.

            It is hard to explain science to people. No few disciplines are based
            on the notion of being wrong over time. A good scientist doesn't mind
            being proved wrong, assuming he or she can develop yet another, better
            theory. This is what people don't get about science: nothing is
            certain, we just assume we are slightly closer to the truth with each
            little piece of data.


            - C. S. Wyatt
            I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
            that I shall be.
            http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
            http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
          • bhvwd
            ... it ... region ... personality. ... and ... and ... based ... mind ... better ... each ... very high as one in three males would be catastrophic. I now
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 12, 2008
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
              <existlist1@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Apr 04, 2008, at 9:26, bhvwd wrote:
              > > Before we start that grueling process we need know much more adout
              > > all of this and such science runs its slow , particular course.
              >
              >
              > First, as Susan correctly clarified, I meant that for every female
              > diagnosed, three to seven males are, depending on the state or
              > country. Part of the problem is that autism is a descriptive term:
              it
              > might be describing any of several underlying conditions. Every
              region
              > seems to have its own definition of what is an "autistic"
              personality.
              >
              > As for science...
              >
              > Indeed, science is slow and makes mistakes along the way. We test
              and
              > retest theories. Even once established as the accepted theory,
              > scientific "knowledge" can be challenged. Witness how well Newton
              and
              > Einstein held up, but there are "flaws" in even their great works.
              >
              > It is hard to explain science to people. No few disciplines are
              based
              > on the notion of being wrong over time. A good scientist doesn't
              mind
              > being proved wrong, assuming he or she can develop yet another,
              better
              > theory. This is what people don't get about science: nothing is
              > certain, we just assume we are slightly closer to the truth with
              each
              > little piece of data.
              > CSW, Yhank you for the clarification , the stronger numbers seemed
              very high as one in three males would be catastrophic. I now
              understsnd why you cannot reliably give a number of cases per
              hundred. What a half assed malady such that we cant even get it
              named. Most of the writers on this list show some signs or simptoms
              of autism, but I find it interesting to chase down the rabbit hole.
              Are existentialists genetically prone to autism? That is unanswerable
              but not unthinkable. It may even still be legal to think such things
              and so I do it. Bill
              >
              > - C. S. Wyatt
              > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
              all
              > that I shall be.
              > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
              > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
              >
            • Joe Mele
              Bill The world would be a better place if everyone was autistic. Autistics mostly have normal to above intelligence but a higher number of mentally retard
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 12, 2008
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                Bill

                The world would be a better place if everyone was autistic. Autistics
                mostly have normal to above intelligence but a higher number of mentally
                retard than the general population. Autistics are not born liars.



                On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:38 PM, bhvwd <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:

                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com <existlist%40yahoogroups.com>, Exist
                > List Moderator
                > <existlist1@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > On Apr 04, 2008, at 9:26, bhvwd wrote:
                > > > Before we start that grueling process we need know much more adout
                > > > all of this and such science runs its slow , particular course.
                > >
                > >
                > > First, as Susan correctly clarified, I meant that for every female
                > > diagnosed, three to seven males are, depending on the state or
                > > country. Part of the problem is that autism is a descriptive term:
                > it
                > > might be describing any of several underlying conditions. Every
                > region
                > > seems to have its own definition of what is an "autistic"
                > personality.
                > >
                > > As for science...
                > >
                > > Indeed, science is slow and makes mistakes along the way. We test
                > and
                > > retest theories. Even once established as the accepted theory,
                > > scientific "knowledge" can be challenged. Witness how well Newton
                > and
                > > Einstein held up, but there are "flaws" in even their great works.
                > >
                > > It is hard to explain science to people. No few disciplines are
                > based
                > > on the notion of being wrong over time. A good scientist doesn't
                > mind
                > > being proved wrong, assuming he or she can develop yet another,
                > better
                > > theory. This is what people don't get about science: nothing is
                > > certain, we just assume we are slightly closer to the truth with
                > each
                > > little piece of data.
                > > CSW, Yhank you for the clarification , the stronger numbers seemed
                > very high as one in three males would be catastrophic. I now
                > understsnd why you cannot reliably give a number of cases per
                > hundred. What a half assed malady such that we cant even get it
                > named. Most of the writers on this list show some signs or simptoms
                > of autism, but I find it interesting to chase down the rabbit hole.
                > Are existentialists genetically prone to autism? That is unanswerable
                > but not unthinkable. It may even still be legal to think such things
                > and so I do it. Bill
                > >
                > > - C. S. Wyatt
                > > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
                > all
                > > that I shall be.
                > > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
                > >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • eupraxis@aol.com
                ... What in the world! Okay, I get it. Autistic people are ... people too. However, let s not get maudlin about it. Wil ************** It s Tax Time! Get tips,
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 13, 2008
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                  In a message dated 4/12/08 11:12:07 PM, joemele@... writes:
                  > The world would be a better place if everyone was autistic.
                  >
                  What in the world!

                  Okay, I get it. Autistic people are ... people too. However, let's not get
                  maudlin about it.

                  Wil


                  **************
                  It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &
                  Finance.
                  (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Exist List Moderator
                  ... I have addressed this issue with teachers and professors who are not prepared for the blunt honesty of the HFA/AS students they encounter. The instructors
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 14, 2008
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                    On Apr 12, 2008, at 23:11, Joe Mele wrote:
                    > Bill
                    >
                    > The world would be a better place if everyone was autistic. Autistics
                    > mostly have normal to above intelligence but a higher number of
                    > mentally
                    > retard than the general population. Autistics are not born liars.


                    I have addressed this issue with teachers and professors who are not
                    prepared for the blunt honesty of the HFA/AS students they encounter.
                    The instructors think the students are being sarcastic or lying, based
                    on tone, when these students cannot generally lie without either a
                    terrible "give" or physical discomfort.

                    People are uncomfortable with the truth.

                    - C. S. Wyatt
                    I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
                    that I shall be.
                    http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                    http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
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