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Re: [existlist] Autistic Minds

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  • Exist List Moderator
    ... Some of my writings appear at: http://www.tameri.com/csw/autism/ A survey of 80 universities located an average of 10 individuals on the autism spectrum.
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 2, 2008
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      On Apr 02, 2008, at 11:54, mary.jo11 wrote:
      > Since it's World Autism Day, I'm wondering about these unique minds
      > which are challenging science and impacting families/communities. How
      > does the concept of philosophical phenomenology apply? I can't even
      > imagine all the ethical implications as this highly "afflicted"
      > generation comes of age. Hopefully our own C.S. Wyatt will share his
      > doctoral thesis when appropriate.


      Some of my writings appear at:
      http://www.tameri.com/csw/autism/

      A survey of 80 universities located an average of 10 individuals on
      the autism spectrum. Most were minimally affected. According to the
      case worker who deals with me at the Univ. of Minnesota, I'm far more
      rare. Unlike the Asperger's Syndrome cases, which are generally
      average to slightly above average on IQ tests and desire social
      contact, I am "minimally" high-functioning and IQ tests are pointless.
      The greater the math/science skills, the closer (sadly) to savantism
      an ASD (autism spectrum disorder) individual tends to be.

      Most of my research deals with pedagogical implications of autism: how
      can we teach the gifted autistic individuals? Having been removed from
      more than one course in my life, this is a personal question, too.
      Professors do not like dealing with savantism -- especially when HFA
      individuals tend to correct professors or even offer unexpected
      solutions. What we need to teach are social skills. I am a speaker at
      two upcoming conferences, including the Autism Society of America's
      national conference in Orlando this July.

      My goal is to help ASD students function in university settings. Too
      many great minds, especially in math and science, will not obtain
      degrees because the social setting is too confusing. According to the
      U.K National Autism Society, only 17 percent of ASD individuals ever
      achieve a level of independence. Less than 0.2% will attend a college
      or university.

      I don't consider myself afflicted; I am merely wired without left-
      frontal lobe asymmetric processing and minimal mirror neuron activity.
      I'm left with pattern recognition skills and supposedly abnormal
      "intelligence" as measured by abilities that have nothing to do with
      human interactions or socialization.

      Last year I wrote a lengthy study of the legal ramifications for
      universities in the U.S. and U.K., where there are laws that mention
      autism specifically as a protected disability.

      As for the phenomenology... it's hard to explain the notion that there
      is no "self" and little if any "other" in the autistic mind. My
      relationships, like those of others with autism, are based on respect
      for intelligence and common interests. "Emotions" are there, but they
      seem "repressed" to an outsider. I can't tell what anyone else feels,
      unless the individual is very, very specific... and then I generally
      cannot relate. (Mindblindness is the term U.K. researchers have
      adopted.) I recently analyzed data on autistic students and adults
      watching cartoons and answering questions. They could not ascribe
      emotional intentions to the cartoon characters, and their brain scans
      reflected this cognitive deficiency.

      "The Other" doesn't really matter to me, unless there is a lot of on-
      going familiarity. What I don't see or experience is as good as non-
      existent. Not to mention, like many others, I forget people quickly.
      If don't have contact with someone, I forget most things about him or
      her, even a basic description. I couldn't describe deceased family
      members no matter how hard I might try.

      I operate by memorization and mimicry. Often, I miss the signals in
      voices or faces. I definitely don't "transmit" the correct signals at
      various times. Notions of empathy are beyond my instinctive cognition.
      I must "reason" any connection to others and their purposes.
      Otherwise, they don't really matter to my routines. I deal with facts,
      numbers, and science. At the same time, I understand there is a
      reasonable need to protect general welfare. Mainly because I don't
      want people bothering me. This is why I find philosophy interesting --
      searching for where logic can work and where it fails.

      With people, logic generally fails.

      - C. S. Wyatt
      I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
      that I shall be.
      http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
      http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
    • mary.jo11
      Thank you, C.S. We are each differently abled. There is no evidence that we can all experience the world from one perspective. Best wishes, Mary
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 3, 2008
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        Thank you, C.S. We are each differently abled. There is no evidence
        that we can all experience the world from one perspective. Best
        wishes, Mary
      • bhvwd
        ... I am beginning to have some very disturbing thoughts about the malady but the numbers become most important in planning any response to the phenominon.
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 3, 2008
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          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <ophiuchus@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thank you, C.S. We are each differently abled. There is no evidence
          > that we can all experience the world from one perspective. Best
          > wishes, Mary
          >Do we as yet know the numbers on autism?How many per 500 live births?
          I am beginning to have some very disturbing thoughts about the malady
          but the numbers become most important in planning any response to the
          phenominon. Is it equally spread over ethnic groups, races, religions
          and geographic areas? Are there socio economic groups who experience
          higher numbers?
          I think CSW probably knows where I am headed with this and He may
          chastise me for even thinking autism is a genetic response to general
          overcrowding of the human species. If I go back to basics "Survival
          of the fittest" stands out as a dismal sign on the genetic highway of
          all species. I think many genes will be found to be involved but that
          is a guess. Treatments for multi factored disease are usually complex
          and expensive. The "fittest" will eventually have much to say about
          expenditure of scarce resources to those who produce little or nothing.
          I am beginning to think of autism as genetic Jahaad and the prospects
          seem glum for huge expenditure if the problem is viewed as a price
          we pay for our overpopulation. I put this out and think CSW will bat
          it down with good knowledge of the more precise situation. I`m
          throwing him a big meat ball and I hope he hits it out of the park. Bill
        • Aija Veldre Beldavs
          ... also from me thanks. my epistemology draws both from the empathic and rational, but my greatest respect goes out to people close to me who draw more from
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 3, 2008
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            mary.jo11 wrote:
            > Thank you, C.S. We are each differently abled. There is no evidence
            > that we can all experience the world from one perspective. Best
            > wishes, Mary

            also from me thanks.
            my epistemology draws both from the empathic and rational, but my
            greatest respect goes out to people close to me who draw more from one
            or the other and have had to struggle to find ways to appreciate the
            other. such engagement is a good part of authenticity.

            aija
          • Exist List Moderator
            ... While we know ASDs are diagnosed at a much higher rate in males (1:3 to 1:7), there is not a clear ethnic bias. Rumors to the contrary, autism does exist
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 3, 2008
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              On Apr 03, 2008, at 9:49, bhvwd wrote:
              > I am beginning to have some very disturbing thoughts about the malady
              > but the numbers become most important in planning any response to the
              > phenominon. Is it equally spread over ethnic groups, races, religions
              > and geographic areas? Are there socio economic groups who experience
              > higher numbers?

              While we know ASDs are diagnosed at a much higher rate in males (1:3
              to 1:7), there is not a clear ethnic bias. Rumors to the contrary,
              autism does exist in groups that do not get vaccines, do not live in
              cities, do not eat commercial crops, etc. (There was a "journalist"
              who reported there was no autism among the Amish -- he didn't bother
              to find out they don't get medical diagnoses and don't file for social
              services. Once a study was done, we also found seizure disorders,
              retardation, and everything else that afflicts humans.)

              The "rich" and those best educated are most likely to have children
              diagnosed with autism. Again, this goes to the availability of
              resources and not an actual increase in incidence.

              The "autism epidemic" is about awareness, most likely. In Minnesota, I
              have charted the increase in "autism" against a marked decrease in
              "retardation" and the charts are precisely related. As autism
              diagnoses increased, retardation declined. It's all about words....
              which is very in tune with phenomenology and words leading to
              experiences.

              > I think CSW probably knows where I am headed with this and He may
              > chastise me for even thinking autism is a genetic response to general
              > overcrowding of the human species.

              If anything, I wonder about the risks implicit in a group that is just
              two or three steps removed from sociopathy. Thankfully, autism leads
              to a "black and white" morality, and no one knows why. Instead of "I
              can do anything, since you don't exist," the autistic mind seems to
              insist upon rigid adherence to rules and order. These rules are not
              the same as laws, so our move is to make ASD students understand there
              are illogical rules they must follow. Okay... this isn't much better
              if we look at what fascism would do with perfect law-abiding
              individuals. "I was just following the law" is not much better than
              sociopathy in some cases.

              Trying to teach social awareness to ASD students has led to a number
              of books on the topic. There is a scale we use, too. The teaching
              includes "A '5' is illegal." You end up hoping the ASD student
              memorizes enough rules to stay out of trouble. Their B&W morality
              would be a good thing, if it didn't lead to legal conflicts.

              - C. S. Wyatt
              I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
              that I shall be.
              http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
              http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
            • bhvwd
              ... malady ... to the ... religions ... experience ... (1:3 ... in ... a journalist ... bother ... social ... children ... Minnesota, I ... words.... ...
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 4, 2008
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                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
                <existlist1@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Apr 03, 2008, at 9:49, bhvwd wrote:
                > > I am beginning to have some very disturbing thoughts about the
                malady
                > > but the numbers become most important in planning any response
                to the
                > > phenominon. Is it equally spread over ethnic groups, races,
                religions
                > > and geographic areas? Are there socio economic groups who
                experience
                > > higher numbers?
                >
                > While we know ASDs are diagnosed at a much higher rate in males
                (1:3
                > to 1:7), there is not a clear ethnic bias. Rumors to the contrary,
                > autism does exist in groups that do not get vaccines, do not live
                in
                > cities, do not eat commercial crops, etc. (There was
                a "journalist"
                > who reported there was no autism among the Amish -- he didn't
                bother
                > to find out they don't get medical diagnoses and don't file for
                social
                > services. Once a study was done, we also found seizure disorders,
                > retardation, and everything else that afflicts humans.)
                >
                > The "rich" and those best educated are most likely to have
                children
                > diagnosed with autism. Again, this goes to the availability of
                > resources and not an actual increase in incidence.
                >
                > The "autism epidemic" is about awareness, most likely. In
                Minnesota, I
                > have charted the increase in "autism" against a marked decrease in
                > "retardation" and the charts are precisely related. As autism
                > diagnoses increased, retardation declined. It's all about
                words....
                > which is very in tune with phenomenology and words leading to
                > experiences.
                >
                > > I think CSW probably knows where I am headed with this and He may
                > > chastise me for even thinking autism is a genetic response to
                general
                > > overcrowding of the human species.
                >
                > If anything, I wonder about the risks implicit in a group that is
                just
                > two or three steps removed from sociopathy. Thankfully, autism
                leads
                > to a "black and white" morality, and no one knows why. Instead
                of "I
                > can do anything, since you don't exist," the autistic mind seems
                to
                > insist upon rigid adherence to rules and order. These rules are
                not
                > the same as laws, so our move is to make ASD students understand
                there
                > are illogical rules they must follow. Okay... this isn't much
                better
                > if we look at what fascism would do with perfect law-abiding
                > individuals. "I was just following the law" is not much better
                than
                > sociopathy in some cases.
                >
                > Trying to teach social awareness to ASD students has led to a
                number
                > of books on the topic. There is a scale we use, too. The teaching
                > includes "A '5' is illegal." You end up hoping the ASD student
                > memorizes enough rules to stay out of trouble. Their B&W morality
                > would be a good thing, if it didn't lead to legal conflicts.
                >
                > - C. S. Wyatt
                > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
                all
                > that I shall be.
                > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
                >CSW, Those numbers are staggering, if one in three males are
                affected we are looking at a world shattering event. A wounded
                soldied is considered much more valuable to an adversarys victory
                than a clean KIA. If you are talking about a 1/3 walking wounded
                rate the casualties will bring us down.
                Since your most affective reply I have looked at some other theories
                about the pathogenisis of the syndrome. Some are looking for some
                trigger mechanisms that set off a predisposing genetic proclivity.
                Much like carcinogenic agents in malignant disease ,a chemical agent,
                virus, bacterium or prion might turn on a genetic sequence bringing
                on the symptoms of the disorder. Very little has been found.
                it seems we must try to identify the specific genes involved.
                Developing a test, especially in utero, leads to moral and
                political debates.
                Before we start that grueling process we need know much more adout
                all of this and such science runs its slow , particular course. As in
                the case of homosexuality it has taken half a century to field a
                research group given authority to even study the situation. If your
                numbers hold true the dissociation of the present population will
                force a quicker, more fully funded research effort.
                Those like yourself seem most potent in slowing the progress of
                a "us' and "them mentality that solves nothing. Bill
              • Joe Mele
                Just to clarify - Autistics celebrate autistic pride day on June 18. Autism world day is a concept developed and supported by curbies like autism speaks that
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 8, 2008
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                  Just to clarify - Autistics celebrate autistic pride day on June 18. Autism
                  world day is a concept developed and supported by curbies like autism speaks
                  that seek to wipe autistics from the face of the earth. Autistic genocide
                  is real issue.

                  "Nothing about us without us!"
                  theasman.blogspot.com

                  On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 12:54 PM, mary.jo11 <ophiuchus@...> wrote:

                  > Since it's World Autism Day, I'm wondering about these unique minds
                  > which are challenging science and impacting families/communities. How
                  > does the concept of philosophical phenomenology apply? I can't even
                  > imagine all the ethical implications as this highly "afflicted"
                  > generation comes of age. Hopefully our own C.S. Wyatt will share his
                  > doctoral thesis when appropriate.
                  >
                  > Mary
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Exist List Moderator
                  ... I do tire of people asking if I want to be cured or made whole based on any physical / neurological conditions I might have. No, I happen to think my
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 8, 2008
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                    On Apr 08, 2008, at 9:30, Joe Mele wrote:
                    > Just to clarify - Autistics celebrate autistic pride day on June 18.
                    > Autism
                    > world day is a concept developed and supported by curbies like
                    > autism speaks
                    > that seek to wipe autistics from the face of the earth. Autistic
                    > genocide
                    > is real issue.


                    I do tire of people asking if I want to be "cured" or "made whole"
                    based on any physical / neurological conditions I might have. No, I
                    happen to think my abilities with computer code (ComputerWorld has
                    covered this aspect of autism since the early 1990s), database design,
                    and pattern recognition are unique skills.

                    Giving parents genetic screening tools, as is mandated in Minnesota,
                    is a way to eliminate the "unfit" before they are born and become an
                    expense. The new "eugenics" movement is to screen ahead, tell parents,
                    "Oh, there's a 70% chance of condition x," and encourage termination.

                    Minnesota now screens for more than 50 conditions. Our state is
                    considering "single payer" health care, with "incentives" to reduce
                    costs. In the UK, one incentive from the NHS is to pay parents to
                    terminate -- in the name of the common good, of course.

                    The Government, we're here to help. Assuming you are not flawed, of
                    course.

                    - C. S. Wyatt
                    I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
                    that I shall be.
                    http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                    http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
                  • Susan Schnelbach
                    I don t think he meant 1 in 3 to 1 in 7 males is autistic. I believe he meant that for every 1 female diagnosed with as autistic there are 3 to 7 males
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 11, 2008
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                      I don't think he meant 1 in 3 to 1 in 7 males is autistic. I believe
                      he meant that for every 1 female diagnosed with as autistic there are
                      3 to 7 males diagnosed.

                      - Susan

                      On Apr 4, 2008, at 9:26 AM, bhvwd wrote:

                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
                      > <existlist1@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > On Apr 03, 2008, at 9:49, bhvwd wrote:
                      > > > I am beginning to have some very disturbing thoughts about the
                      > malady
                      > > > but the numbers become most important in planning any response
                      > to the
                      > > > phenominon. Is it equally spread over ethnic groups, races,
                      > religions
                      > > > and geographic areas? Are there socio economic groups who
                      > experience
                      > > > higher numbers?
                      > >
                      > > While we know ASDs are diagnosed at a much higher rate in males
                      > (1:3
                      > > to 1:7), there is not a clear ethnic bias. Rumors to the contrary,
                      > > autism does exist in groups that do not get vaccines, do not live
                      > in
                      > > cities, do not eat commercial crops, etc. (There was
                      > a "journalist"
                      > > who reported there was no autism among the Amish -- he didn't
                      > bother
                      > > to find out they don't get medical diagnoses and don't file for
                      > social
                      > > services. Once a study was done, we also found seizure disorders,
                      > > retardation, and everything else that afflicts humans.)
                      > >
                      > > The "rich" and those best educated are most likely to have
                      > children
                      > > diagnosed with autism. Again, this goes to the availability of
                      > > resources and not an actual increase in incidence.
                      > >
                      > > The "autism epidemic" is about awareness, most likely. In
                      > Minnesota, I
                      > > have charted the increase in "autism" against a marked decrease in
                      > > "retardation" and the charts are precisely related. As autism
                      > > diagnoses increased, retardation declined. It's all about
                      > words....
                      > > which is very in tune with phenomenology and words leading to
                      > > experiences.
                      > >
                      > > > I think CSW probably knows where I am headed with this and He may
                      > > > chastise me for even thinking autism is a genetic response to
                      > general
                      > > > overcrowding of the human species.
                      > >
                      > > If anything, I wonder about the risks implicit in a group that is
                      > just
                      > > two or three steps removed from sociopathy. Thankfully, autism
                      > leads
                      > > to a "black and white" morality, and no one knows why. Instead
                      > of "I
                      > > can do anything, since you don't exist," the autistic mind seems
                      > to
                      > > insist upon rigid adherence to rules and order. These rules are
                      > not
                      > > the same as laws, so our move is to make ASD students understand
                      > there
                      > > are illogical rules they must follow. Okay... this isn't much
                      > better
                      > > if we look at what fascism would do with perfect law-abiding
                      > > individuals. "I was just following the law" is not much better
                      > than
                      > > sociopathy in some cases.
                      > >
                      > > Trying to teach social awareness to ASD students has led to a
                      > number
                      > > of books on the topic. There is a scale we use, too. The teaching
                      > > includes "A '5' is illegal." You end up hoping the ASD student
                      > > memorizes enough rules to stay out of trouble. Their B&W morality
                      > > would be a good thing, if it didn't lead to legal conflicts.
                      > >
                      > > - C. S. Wyatt
                      > > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
                      > all
                      > > that I shall be.
                      > > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                      > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
                      > >CSW, Those numbers are staggering, if one in three males are
                      > affected we are looking at a world shattering event. A wounded
                      > soldied is considered much more valuable to an adversarys victory
                      > than a clean KIA. If you are talking about a 1/3 walking wounded
                      > rate the casualties will bring us down.
                      > Since your most affective reply I have looked at some other theories
                      > about the pathogenisis of the syndrome. Some are looking for some
                      > trigger mechanisms that set off a predisposing genetic proclivity.
                      > Much like carcinogenic agents in malignant disease ,a chemical agent,
                      > virus, bacterium or prion might turn on a genetic sequence bringing
                      > on the symptoms of the disorder. Very little has been found.
                      > it seems we must try to identify the specific genes involved.
                      > Developing a test, especially in utero, leads to moral and
                      > political debates.
                      > Before we start that grueling process we need know much more adout
                      > all of this and such science runs its slow , particular course. As in
                      > the case of homosexuality it has taken half a century to field a
                      > research group given authority to even study the situation. If your
                      > numbers hold true the dissociation of the present population will
                      > force a quicker, more fully funded research effort.
                      > Those like yourself seem most potent in slowing the progress of
                      > a "us' and "them mentality that solves nothing. Bill
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Exist List Moderator
                      ... First, as Susan correctly clarified, I meant that for every female diagnosed, three to seven males are, depending on the state or country. Part of the
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 12, 2008
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                        On Apr 04, 2008, at 9:26, bhvwd wrote:
                        > Before we start that grueling process we need know much more adout
                        > all of this and such science runs its slow , particular course.


                        First, as Susan correctly clarified, I meant that for every female
                        diagnosed, three to seven males are, depending on the state or
                        country. Part of the problem is that autism is a descriptive term: it
                        might be describing any of several underlying conditions. Every region
                        seems to have its own definition of what is an "autistic" personality.

                        As for science...

                        Indeed, science is slow and makes mistakes along the way. We test and
                        retest theories. Even once established as the accepted theory,
                        scientific "knowledge" can be challenged. Witness how well Newton and
                        Einstein held up, but there are "flaws" in even their great works.

                        It is hard to explain science to people. No few disciplines are based
                        on the notion of being wrong over time. A good scientist doesn't mind
                        being proved wrong, assuming he or she can develop yet another, better
                        theory. This is what people don't get about science: nothing is
                        certain, we just assume we are slightly closer to the truth with each
                        little piece of data.


                        - C. S. Wyatt
                        I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
                        that I shall be.
                        http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                        http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
                      • bhvwd
                        ... it ... region ... personality. ... and ... and ... based ... mind ... better ... each ... very high as one in three males would be catastrophic. I now
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 12, 2008
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                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
                          <existlist1@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On Apr 04, 2008, at 9:26, bhvwd wrote:
                          > > Before we start that grueling process we need know much more adout
                          > > all of this and such science runs its slow , particular course.
                          >
                          >
                          > First, as Susan correctly clarified, I meant that for every female
                          > diagnosed, three to seven males are, depending on the state or
                          > country. Part of the problem is that autism is a descriptive term:
                          it
                          > might be describing any of several underlying conditions. Every
                          region
                          > seems to have its own definition of what is an "autistic"
                          personality.
                          >
                          > As for science...
                          >
                          > Indeed, science is slow and makes mistakes along the way. We test
                          and
                          > retest theories. Even once established as the accepted theory,
                          > scientific "knowledge" can be challenged. Witness how well Newton
                          and
                          > Einstein held up, but there are "flaws" in even their great works.
                          >
                          > It is hard to explain science to people. No few disciplines are
                          based
                          > on the notion of being wrong over time. A good scientist doesn't
                          mind
                          > being proved wrong, assuming he or she can develop yet another,
                          better
                          > theory. This is what people don't get about science: nothing is
                          > certain, we just assume we are slightly closer to the truth with
                          each
                          > little piece of data.
                          > CSW, Yhank you for the clarification , the stronger numbers seemed
                          very high as one in three males would be catastrophic. I now
                          understsnd why you cannot reliably give a number of cases per
                          hundred. What a half assed malady such that we cant even get it
                          named. Most of the writers on this list show some signs or simptoms
                          of autism, but I find it interesting to chase down the rabbit hole.
                          Are existentialists genetically prone to autism? That is unanswerable
                          but not unthinkable. It may even still be legal to think such things
                          and so I do it. Bill
                          >
                          > - C. S. Wyatt
                          > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
                          all
                          > that I shall be.
                          > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                          > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
                          >
                        • Joe Mele
                          Bill The world would be a better place if everyone was autistic. Autistics mostly have normal to above intelligence but a higher number of mentally retard
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 12, 2008
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                            Bill

                            The world would be a better place if everyone was autistic. Autistics
                            mostly have normal to above intelligence but a higher number of mentally
                            retard than the general population. Autistics are not born liars.



                            On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:38 PM, bhvwd <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:

                            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com <existlist%40yahoogroups.com>, Exist
                            > List Moderator
                            > <existlist1@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > On Apr 04, 2008, at 9:26, bhvwd wrote:
                            > > > Before we start that grueling process we need know much more adout
                            > > > all of this and such science runs its slow , particular course.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > First, as Susan correctly clarified, I meant that for every female
                            > > diagnosed, three to seven males are, depending on the state or
                            > > country. Part of the problem is that autism is a descriptive term:
                            > it
                            > > might be describing any of several underlying conditions. Every
                            > region
                            > > seems to have its own definition of what is an "autistic"
                            > personality.
                            > >
                            > > As for science...
                            > >
                            > > Indeed, science is slow and makes mistakes along the way. We test
                            > and
                            > > retest theories. Even once established as the accepted theory,
                            > > scientific "knowledge" can be challenged. Witness how well Newton
                            > and
                            > > Einstein held up, but there are "flaws" in even their great works.
                            > >
                            > > It is hard to explain science to people. No few disciplines are
                            > based
                            > > on the notion of being wrong over time. A good scientist doesn't
                            > mind
                            > > being proved wrong, assuming he or she can develop yet another,
                            > better
                            > > theory. This is what people don't get about science: nothing is
                            > > certain, we just assume we are slightly closer to the truth with
                            > each
                            > > little piece of data.
                            > > CSW, Yhank you for the clarification , the stronger numbers seemed
                            > very high as one in three males would be catastrophic. I now
                            > understsnd why you cannot reliably give a number of cases per
                            > hundred. What a half assed malady such that we cant even get it
                            > named. Most of the writers on this list show some signs or simptoms
                            > of autism, but I find it interesting to chase down the rabbit hole.
                            > Are existentialists genetically prone to autism? That is unanswerable
                            > but not unthinkable. It may even still be legal to think such things
                            > and so I do it. Bill
                            > >
                            > > - C. S. Wyatt
                            > > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
                            > all
                            > > that I shall be.
                            > > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                            > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • eupraxis@aol.com
                            ... What in the world! Okay, I get it. Autistic people are ... people too. However, let s not get maudlin about it. Wil ************** It s Tax Time! Get tips,
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 13, 2008
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                              In a message dated 4/12/08 11:12:07 PM, joemele@... writes:
                              > The world would be a better place if everyone was autistic.
                              >
                              What in the world!

                              Okay, I get it. Autistic people are ... people too. However, let's not get
                              maudlin about it.

                              Wil


                              **************
                              It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &
                              Finance.
                              (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Exist List Moderator
                              ... I have addressed this issue with teachers and professors who are not prepared for the blunt honesty of the HFA/AS students they encounter. The instructors
                              Message 14 of 15 , Apr 14, 2008
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                                On Apr 12, 2008, at 23:11, Joe Mele wrote:
                                > Bill
                                >
                                > The world would be a better place if everyone was autistic. Autistics
                                > mostly have normal to above intelligence but a higher number of
                                > mentally
                                > retard than the general population. Autistics are not born liars.


                                I have addressed this issue with teachers and professors who are not
                                prepared for the blunt honesty of the HFA/AS students they encounter.
                                The instructors think the students are being sarcastic or lying, based
                                on tone, when these students cannot generally lie without either a
                                terrible "give" or physical discomfort.

                                People are uncomfortable with the truth.

                                - C. S. Wyatt
                                I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
                                that I shall be.
                                http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                                http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
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