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Re: [existlist] Re: DoDo bebe

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  • eupraxis@aol.com
    Herr Knoten, I see, and that is because I have so many reasons to impress someone like you with vacant claims? Your talent for avoidance is only inches below
    Message 1 of 54 , Apr 2, 2008
      Herr Knoten,

      "I see, and that is because I have so many reasons to impress someone
      like you with vacant claims? Your talent for avoidance is only inches
      below Mr. Dad."

      Response: I do not get the reference. But I am not trying to outmaneuver you,
      I assure you.
      ---
      "I will ponder about putting into words the wordless experience for
      which i have no vocabulary...but you have had such issue taking in my
      explication of what i think is common that either it is not so common,
      I've made a balls of discussing it, or there is no way I can get the
      ideas across -- all leaning toward ideas I tend to hold closer to true
      than knott about this communication thing and its relative
      effectiveness..."

      Response: I have not had impressions or ideas that were not in some way
      either composites of others (whether chimeras or syntheses, etc.) or parlays of
      matters at hand (insights, no matter how original, regarding some conundrum, or
      pure improvisations, etc.). Now, perhaps I am not allowing myself to
      acknowledge some innate source, like the complex geometrical patterns that one can 'see'
      if one presses ones eyes snuggly (something I did as a kid). In that case, I
      was always amazed by the degree of geometric variety, but even there the
      images were recognizable as a kind of moiré, and were rather more of a
      physiological effect (the firing of rods and cones) than any kind of 'idea' in the proper
      sense.

      As far as the ability of language to describe the ineffable goes, that is why
      so many do not believe ineffable accounts, I guess; but attempts have been
      made over the millennia which have been more or less accepted, philosophical
      texts included.
      ---
      "But why not start with concrete and see if we make any ground. I'll
      repeat: are you familiar with the way you experience magnetism?"

      Response: I have only seen its effects, like iron filings on paper, or
      pulling apart one of desk sculptures, etc. I have not had a 'direct' experience of
      magnetism in the way birds are supposed to; and I haven't had the joy of an MRI
      as of now, so I am not sure have it would feel. But I have to admit that I am
      not understanding your analogy.
      ---
      "'supernatural'? really...That sounds a slur as well. However, what is
      'supernatural' about a refrigerator magnet?"

      Response: Were one to appeal to the supernatural, that would indeed cause my
      eyes to roll, and my tongue to cluck. Let's hope that any discussion remains
      on earth. But if you do have some account that makes you insist on the
      otherworldly (especially as you doubt worldliness anyway), I will try to suppress my
      automatic skepticism.
      ---
      "If you stopped poo-pooing everything perhaps you might enjoy something
      instead of retreating to the nest of comfortable ripped pages by old/dead
      guys."

      Response: Okay, but that is a two way street, mein Freund.
      ---
      "Obviously if you haven't thought it, it can't be thought, eh? To some
      extents I have to agree with that...but, if you please, that just seems to be what I
      suggest.

      Response: There is a classic text in philosophy by a gentleman who is no
      longer with us (not his fault; I am sure that he would have wanted to be here, so
      please don't take it out on him). The Critique of Pure Reason, by Kant, has
      this very issue as its theme. What can be thought? And more importantly, how can
      thought think critically of itself so that it doesn't pull the wool over its
      own eyes. While there are many issues to take with that text, Kant is very
      persuasive when it comes to the misuse of transcendental ideas. I wish you had
      the patience to look over the fellow's shoulder. That would at least advance the
      discussion forward past mere vitriol.

      In any case, I await whatever you have to add.

      Wil

      In a message dated 4/2/08 5:22:09 AM, knott12@... writes:


      >
      >
      >
      > > Needless to say, I do not find your claims
      > > credible.
      >
      > I see, and that is because I have so many reasons to impress someone
      > like you with vacant claims? Your talent for avoidance is only inches
      > below Mr. Dad.
      >
      > I will ponder about putting into words the wordless experience for
      > which i have no vocabulary.. which i have no vocabulary..<wbr>.but yo
      > explication of what i think is common that either it is not so common,
      > I've made a balls of discussing it, or there is no way I can get the
      > ideas across -- all leaning toward ideas I tend to hold closer to true
      > than knott about this communication thing and its relative
      > effectiveness. e
      >
      > But why not start with concrete and see if we make any ground. I'll
      > repeat: are you familiar with the way you experience magnetism?
      >
      > 'supernatural' 'supernatural'<wbr>? really...That sounds a slur as we
      > 'supernatural' about a refrigerator magnet?
      >
      > If you stopped poo-pooing everything perhaps you might enjoy something
      > instead of retreating to the nest of comfortable ripped pages by
      > old/dead guys. Obviously if you haven't thought it, it can't be
      > thought, eh? To some extents I have to agree with that...but, if you
      > please, that just seems to be what I suggest.
      >
      > Compost Composer
      >
      >
      >




      **************
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      Home.
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bhvwd
      ... arctic. ... as ... and ... exemplified ... always ... mistakes. ... world. ... WILD PLACES TO SEEK---WHATEVER? I have gone out many times and have had
      Message 54 of 54 , Apr 2, 2008
        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <ophiuchus@...> wrote:
        >
        > "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
        >
        > "Into the wild" , a film about cutting away from all
        > other people. The protagaginist starves to death alone in the
        arctic.
        > He found out that living alone was just not worth the effort of
        > fighting for life. Living was too big a pain in the ass so he
        > experienced lonelyness and then fear and then died.
        >
        > Bill,
        >
        > It's an excellent story and expresses many existential themes such
        as
        > alienation and absurdity. McCandless traded the pain of human
        > relationships, with their shaky solidarity and complicity in the
        > world's problems, for that of solitude in the beautiful but
        > indifferent wilderness. All along his journey, and ultimately, he
        > confronted the compromise between the need for individual freedom
        and
        > camaraderie. The wild farmer and the counterculture couple
        exemplified
        > this best, as they seemed the most aware of their choices.
        >
        > There are so many different ways to think and live. This discussion
        > group is a wonderful example, even if some have the need to prove
        > their perspective is right or true. If I compare McCandless' choice
        > with that of Sartre and Beauvoir, the idea of commitment wildly
        > asserts itself. Neither is correct after all, because there are
        always
        > unforeseen dangers and the high probability that someone, at some
        > point, will change their mind and be incapable of reversing
        mistakes.
        > Sartre and Beauvoir had nearly 50 years longer to engage with the
        world.
        >
        > I understand both choices.
        >
        > Mary
        >i THOUGHT YOU WOULD LIKE THAT ONE AS i KNOW YOU HAVE GONE TO THE
        WILD PLACES TO SEEK---WHATEVER? I have gone out many times and have
        had danger I did not expect and quiet revelations that remain
        generally formless. Fighting back from great defecits seems to
        instill a calmness that supresses the panic reaction in stressful
        situations. It makes you a trained troop rather than a tenderfoot.
        Those exciting times have left me with a perspective of smallness, we
        just do not count for much in face of the many mighty forces around
        us. Our species seems much more adept at destruction in the name of
        any supposed good that seems handy. In the end it is just an exercise
        in rudeness, destruction and murder. In that I try to avoid the many
        manic types rushing around for their nefarious purposes. I can
        call back some of the aloneness when I can garnish a few moments of
        silence. It will not be troublesome for me to fade away, I am
        already there in the peaceful part of my mind. I seldom add to the
        havoc about me and feel guilt if I do. I openly demand order and
        quiet about me and will leave the scene if it is not present. I am
        becoming old, steaming fodder but at least I no longer have a gun in
        my hand. It seems meet and just to become older. Bill
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