Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [existlist] Re: Re: Doe: Doe: Ray: Be: Be: Be

Expand Messages
  • eupraxis@aol.com
    Nous, Many questions have gone back and forth unattended. I hadn t purposely avoided anything, and I would be more than willing to address anything that you
    Message 1 of 54 , Apr 1, 2008
      Nous,

      Many questions have gone back and forth unattended. I hadn't purposely
      avoided anything, and I would be more than willing to address anything
      that you think is dangling.

      But I would like to address something that you have alleged here: you
      write, "I have seen many things in my dreams/hallucinations that are
      not of this world as I witness and experience it. You want to be
      limited to 5 senses and perhaps a 6th, which may really not tell the
      whole story."

      Now that does elevate the debate into the supernatural, something I
      hadn't assumed before now. The claim that you have seen things that
      have no dependency on empirical experience in this world is counter
      everything normally included under the rubric of "rational". LSD trips,
      or whatever hallucinogen you wish to use as an example, may do all
      sorts of things with your synapses, but they do not construct 'things'
      out of the blue. They are constructions based on experience. I would be
      interested to hear more of your claim, or the theory behind it, as it
      adds an entirely new layer to the discussion.

      Needless to say, I do not find your claims credible. But I have found
      even folks like Aleister Crowley to write things with some insight.

      All ears,
      W


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Knott <knott12@...>
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 11:00 am
      Subject: [existlist] Re: Re: Doe: Doe: Ray: Be: Be: Be

























      > If your hallucination derives from the

      > real word, that proves the real

      > world, notwithstanding your own

      > absented experience of it.



      Sir, stop assuming I am quite so stupid, or perhaps try not to limit

      it all to an aardvark with bent tweezers. I know it is nice and neat

      for you to have all your little sui generis in a row quacking like

      ducks on the way to the window in the Chinese restaurant, but I don't

      hold my idea of hallucinating so simple. I have seen many things in my

      dreams/hallucinations that are not of this world as I witness and

      experience it. You want to be limited to 5 senses and perhaps a 6th,

      which may really not tell the whole story. You can crown yourself king

      of all, but I'm not quite so encumbered with my own importance, and I

      think it is a self deception. There are things I cannot know...like

      the infrared light that escapes my vision and the magnetism which I

      cannot feel as it passes through me. My limitation makes me wonder how

      much more I am missing, and instead of being overwhelmed with dread,

      it is quite the opposite...the world becomes magical again.



      'hallucination' is perhaps a word I use to substitute for something

      which perhaps doesn't exist in my poor vocabulary. Something more akin

      to creative vision yet still beyond my control...more a trip on LSD as

      I would imagine it and have had it described than a simple pilfering

      and cloning of what you already know. That may bring you out of the

      nice little comfortable nest you have lined with sui generis...and

      likely knott. Imagine what I describe as 'hallucination' as a purely

      creative endeavor that divines a world, the shape of your hands, the

      people your think you bump into, the bump that you feel. or is it the

      imagination that perhaps you choose to lack?



      You ignored the questions...was that an aversion? an attempt to be

      clever? Why not try a response?



      Cavernous Eare
    • bhvwd
      ... arctic. ... as ... and ... exemplified ... always ... mistakes. ... world. ... WILD PLACES TO SEEK---WHATEVER? I have gone out many times and have had
      Message 54 of 54 , Apr 2, 2008
        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <ophiuchus@...> wrote:
        >
        > "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
        >
        > "Into the wild" , a film about cutting away from all
        > other people. The protagaginist starves to death alone in the
        arctic.
        > He found out that living alone was just not worth the effort of
        > fighting for life. Living was too big a pain in the ass so he
        > experienced lonelyness and then fear and then died.
        >
        > Bill,
        >
        > It's an excellent story and expresses many existential themes such
        as
        > alienation and absurdity. McCandless traded the pain of human
        > relationships, with their shaky solidarity and complicity in the
        > world's problems, for that of solitude in the beautiful but
        > indifferent wilderness. All along his journey, and ultimately, he
        > confronted the compromise between the need for individual freedom
        and
        > camaraderie. The wild farmer and the counterculture couple
        exemplified
        > this best, as they seemed the most aware of their choices.
        >
        > There are so many different ways to think and live. This discussion
        > group is a wonderful example, even if some have the need to prove
        > their perspective is right or true. If I compare McCandless' choice
        > with that of Sartre and Beauvoir, the idea of commitment wildly
        > asserts itself. Neither is correct after all, because there are
        always
        > unforeseen dangers and the high probability that someone, at some
        > point, will change their mind and be incapable of reversing
        mistakes.
        > Sartre and Beauvoir had nearly 50 years longer to engage with the
        world.
        >
        > I understand both choices.
        >
        > Mary
        >i THOUGHT YOU WOULD LIKE THAT ONE AS i KNOW YOU HAVE GONE TO THE
        WILD PLACES TO SEEK---WHATEVER? I have gone out many times and have
        had danger I did not expect and quiet revelations that remain
        generally formless. Fighting back from great defecits seems to
        instill a calmness that supresses the panic reaction in stressful
        situations. It makes you a trained troop rather than a tenderfoot.
        Those exciting times have left me with a perspective of smallness, we
        just do not count for much in face of the many mighty forces around
        us. Our species seems much more adept at destruction in the name of
        any supposed good that seems handy. In the end it is just an exercise
        in rudeness, destruction and murder. In that I try to avoid the many
        manic types rushing around for their nefarious purposes. I can
        call back some of the aloneness when I can garnish a few moments of
        silence. It will not be troublesome for me to fade away, I am
        already there in the peaceful part of my mind. I seldom add to the
        havoc about me and feel guilt if I do. I openly demand order and
        quiet about me and will leave the scene if it is not present. I am
        becoming old, steaming fodder but at least I no longer have a gun in
        my hand. It seems meet and just to become older. Bill
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.