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The inhospitable existentialist

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  • bhvwd
    I find it simple to lay the general dislike of existentialism before a grotesque of a sulpherous nihilism. I like Neitche but his writing often jutted toward
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 3 8:41 AM
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      I find it simple to lay the general dislike of existentialism before
      a grotesque of a sulpherous nihilism. I like Neitche but his writing
      often jutted toward the demonic. Then again he was reported mad and
      that is always ample cannon fodder.
      I remember a catholic priest ,always clothed in the metaphysical,
      who warned me not to blaspheme. He was big and threatening and
      expectorated while speaking. I remember whipeing his spittle from my
      face and suggesting he was the demonic one.
      It may be that because we refuse to play back to them in trump we
      so infuriate the blessed. We are like mirrors that will not
      reflect, our impudance disarms the cosmic view of those of
      inhabiting former philosophies.
      I have never thought the hassle was philosophic ,it is about power
      in the world. I have been called a self styled survivalist. That was
      from an anglican who cared little for metaphysics but knew the
      popularity of the protestant reformation was waning. Many who have
      written here resemble a group who desperately want to be in the in
      group. When they find out the level of commitment required they slink
      away with the taste of blunt nihilism all that remains.
      I have no desire to be avante guarde, especially if that entails
      post modernism. I think existentialism will evolve slowly, with the
      expansion of sound scientific theory we will grow. It is possible we
      may enjoy a renaming as our popularity has hardly been immense.
      As a secound generation existential genius Sartre was still
      debunking essences and fighting back the dark ages vomit from
      catholcism. We could be purging from both orafaces for millinia.
      Living is such dispepsia I see no requirement to wax pleasant while
      giving not one inch back to the barbarous past. Remember, nothing
      transcends this cosmos, the rot is ours to clear. Bill
    • mary.jo11
      Thank you, Bill, you always wear the enforcer s colors! There are theologians who are misleading by attempting to redefine atheism and resurrecting S.K. and
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 3 12:03 PM
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        Thank you, Bill, you always wear the enforcer's colors!

        There are theologians who are misleading by attempting to redefine
        atheism and resurrecting S.K. and Tillich.

        http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/john_shelby_spong/2007/01/i
        _welcome_the_attention_that_1.html

        Mary

        "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:

        I find it simple to lay the general dislike of existentialism before
        a grotesque of a sulpherous nihilism. I like Neitche but his writing
        often jutted toward the demonic. Then again he was reported mad and
        that is always ample cannon fodder.
        I remember a catholic priest ,always clothed in the metaphysical,
        who warned me not to blaspheme. He was big and threatening and
        expectorated while speaking. I remember whipeing his spittle from my
        face and suggesting he was the demonic one.
        It may be that because we refuse to play back to them in trump we
        so infuriate the blessed. We are like mirrors that will not
        reflect, our impudance disarms the cosmic view of those of
        inhabiting former philosophies.
        I have never thought the hassle was philosophic ,it is about power
        in the world. I have been called a self styled survivalist. That was
        from an anglican who cared little for metaphysics but knew the
        popularity of the protestant reformation was waning. Many who have
        written here resemble a group who desperately want to be in the in
        group. When they find out the level of commitment required they slink
        away with the taste of blunt nihilism all that remains.
        I have no desire to be avante guarde, especially if that entails
        post modernism. I think existentialism will evolve slowly, with the
        expansion of sound scientific theory we will grow. It is possible we
        may enjoy a renaming as our popularity has hardly been immense.
        As a secound generation existential genius Sartre was still
        debunking essences and fighting back the dark ages vomit from
        catholcism. We could be purging from both orafaces for millinia.
        Living is such dispepsia I see no requirement to wax pleasant while
        giving not one inch back to the barbarous past. Remember, nothing
        transcends this cosmos, the rot is ours to clear. Bill
      • bhvwd
        ... http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/john_shelby_spong/2007/01/i ... slink
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 3 12:13 PM
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          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <ophiuchus@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thank you, Bill, you always wear the enforcer's colors!
          >
          > There are theologians who are misleading by attempting to redefine
          > atheism and resurrecting S.K. and Tillich.
          > If they sneak any closer they might catch something!Bill
          >
          http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/john_shelby_spong/2007/01/i
          > _welcome_the_attention_that_1.html
          >
          > Mary
          >
          > "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
          >
          > I find it simple to lay the general dislike of existentialism before
          > a grotesque of a sulpherous nihilism. I like Neitche but his writing
          > often jutted toward the demonic. Then again he was reported mad and
          > that is always ample cannon fodder.
          > I remember a catholic priest ,always clothed in the metaphysical,
          > who warned me not to blaspheme. He was big and threatening and
          > expectorated while speaking. I remember whipeing his spittle from my
          > face and suggesting he was the demonic one.
          > It may be that because we refuse to play back to them in trump we
          > so infuriate the blessed. We are like mirrors that will not
          > reflect, our impudance disarms the cosmic view of those of
          > inhabiting former philosophies.
          > I have never thought the hassle was philosophic ,it is about power
          > in the world. I have been called a self styled survivalist. That was
          > from an anglican who cared little for metaphysics but knew the
          > popularity of the protestant reformation was waning. Many who have
          > written here resemble a group who desperately want to be in the in
          > group. When they find out the level of commitment required they
          slink
          > away with the taste of blunt nihilism all that remains.
          > I have no desire to be avante guarde, especially if that entails
          > post modernism. I think existentialism will evolve slowly, with the
          > expansion of sound scientific theory we will grow. It is possible we
          > may enjoy a renaming as our popularity has hardly been immense.
          > As a secound generation existential genius Sartre was still
          > debunking essences and fighting back the dark ages vomit from
          > catholcism. We could be purging from both orafaces for millinia.
          > Living is such dispepsia I see no requirement to wax pleasant while
          > giving not one inch back to the barbarous past. Remember, nothing
          > transcends this cosmos, the rot is ours to clear. Bill
          >
        • William
          I have seen most on this list pine for harmony. I do not understand that mind set.The whole argument about some supposed debt owed the other does not impress
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 3, 2010
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            I have seen most on this list pine for harmony. I do not understand that mind set.The whole argument about some supposed debt owed the other does not impress me.
            This is a massively legalistic modern world. Now with the socialists in charge the IRS will dictate plenty of obligations to you and those around you.
            Why do you wish to dilute the individualism of existentialism? Fn,`s revolt was against unjust authority, church authority, authority of monarchs, authority of the rich, authority of bureaucrats. , authority of god. Without a god we became more equil, more responsible for our mortal life. Without an immortal life all the cards are on the table during ones temporality. During that time there is only one permanent alliance and that is the duty to oneself to provide for the self.
            As George Patton said "I don`t like to pay for the same place twice" . In existentialism, individualism is a mainstay and argueing about it over and over is of no use to me. I have been absent of most of the verbiage offered by Miss Polly and only comment when the abuse to the philosophy becomes rediculous. She is not making points she is making noise. Jim took a similar tact and it is better now that he has faded. Some seem to need constant reinforcement ,usually by way of endless complexification, to stay onboard. JUMP, jump back to jesus, you make your own seat here and if you are uncomfortable,leave. But when you beg for a hybrid of existentialism that leaves out the dread responsibility of being alone you have no status here. Bill
          • Herman
            Hi Bill, ... I see all this communicating you are doing as totally negating your premise of being alone. Polly
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 3, 2010
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              Hi Bill,

              On 4 August 2010 03:42, William <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
              > I have seen most on this list pine for harmony. I do not understand that mind set.The whole argument  about some supposed debt owed the other does not impress me.
              > This is a massively legalistic modern world. Now with the socialists in charge the IRS will dictate plenty of obligations to you and those around you.
              >  Why do you wish to dilute the individualism  of existentialism? Fn,`s revolt was against unjust authority, church authority, authority of monarchs, authority of the rich, authority of bureaucrats. , authority of god. Without a god we became more equil, more responsible for our mortal life. Without an immortal life all the cards are on the table during ones temporality. During that time there is only one permanent alliance and that is the duty to oneself to provide for the self.
              >  As  George Patton said "I don`t like to pay for the same place twice" . In existentialism, individualism  is a mainstay and argueing about it over and over is of no use to me. I have been absent of most of the verbiage offered by Miss  Polly and only comment when the abuse to the philosophy becomes rediculous. She is not making points she is making noise. Jim took a similar tact and it is better now that he has faded. Some seem to need constant reinforcement ,usually by  way of endless complexification, to stay onboard. JUMP, jump back to jesus, you make your own seat here and if you are uncomfortable,leave. But when you beg for a hybrid of existentialism that leaves out the dread responsibility of being alone you  have no status here. Bill
              >

              I see all this communicating you are doing as totally negating your
              premise of being alone.

              Polly
            • shadowed_statue
              Bill, We do not often consider here those existential works that are written as literary prose, not philosophy. Some time ago I finished The Death of Ivan
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 3, 2010
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                Bill,

                We do not often consider here those existential works that are written as literary prose, not philosophy. Some time ago I finished "The Death of Ivan Ilytch", by Leo Tolstoy, which C.Corey recommended. There is aloneness unflinchingly depicted, and with unsentimental meticulousness finishes with light. It is one particular study of despair and hope, which presents pain in its awful insistence, and loses it for a while, in the very search for resolution, for meaning. And so the pain-racked man feels sorry for his son and wife at the end. He finds the light simultaneously, and release from death, which no longer exists. I do not find this a falsification, even though there is a kind of religious context in the background. Everything is attained by experience, and the careful description of experience and speech.

                Currently I am reading Kafka's "The Trial", which sets its protagonist among others, and also leaves him completely alone. This too leaves me with an unusual kind of hope. It is the quality of feeling, and of the writing, that does it. I remember you once writing here (some years ago), "we learn again to feel with our fellows". And that co-exists finely with existential aloneness, which is not an easy burden, until one day it might, I suppose, become so. The coalescence of different threads. Social hope is a quite different animal. I wonder if JPS has this alleged capacity to drive readers crazy because he applies that terrific intellect of his to an intense demand of what passes between the self and others, without the consolations of transcendence felt by Kierkegaard.

                Louise

                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have seen most on this list pine for harmony. I do not understand that mind set.The whole argument about some supposed debt owed the other does not impress me.
                > This is a massively legalistic modern world. Now with the socialists in charge the IRS will dictate plenty of obligations to you and those around you.
                > Why do you wish to dilute the individualism of existentialism? Fn,`s revolt was against unjust authority, church authority, authority of monarchs, authority of the rich, authority of bureaucrats. , authority of god. Without a god we became more equil, more responsible for our mortal life. Without an immortal life all the cards are on the table during ones temporality. During that time there is only one permanent alliance and that is the duty to oneself to provide for the self.
                > As George Patton said "I don`t like to pay for the same place twice" . In existentialism, individualism is a mainstay and argueing about it over and over is of no use to me. I have been absent of most of the verbiage offered by Miss Polly and only comment when the abuse to the philosophy becomes rediculous. She is not making points she is making noise. Jim took a similar tact and it is better now that he has faded. Some seem to need constant reinforcement ,usually by way of endless complexification, to stay onboard. JUMP, jump back to jesus, you make your own seat here and if you are uncomfortable,leave. But when you beg for a hybrid of existentialism that leaves out the dread responsibility of being alone you have no status here. Bill
                >
              • William
                Am I stearing towards p-ost modernism, hardly not. Newton is sacred text to me. I certainly do not claim understanding of all his theories.I struggle to
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 3, 2010
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                  Am I stearing towards p-ost modernism, hardly not. Newton is sacred text to me. I certainly do not claim understanding of all his theories.I struggle to comprehend Uncle Albert but I keep learning more. Cosmic studies still enthrall me. An off course, pedestrian theory like existentialism has no long term survival potential. But pace is as yet not a crime. When a fine poet has the patience and decency to write to me,I recend the negatation of her favorite philosopher . May you see him as a poet and I see him as a priest?
                  This is how people of minds should contribute. Bill
                • William
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 3, 2010
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                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Am I stearing towards p-ost modernism, hardly not. Newton is sacred text to me. I certainly do not claim understanding of all his theories.I struggle to comprehend Uncle Albert but I keep learning more. Cosmic studies still enthrall me. An off course, pedestrian theory like existentialism has no long term survival potential. But pace is as yet not a crime. When a fine poet has the patience and decency to write to me,I recend the negatation of her favorite philosopher . May you see him as a poet and I see him as a priest?
                    > This is how people of minds should contribute. Bill
                    > Whoops, got an extra ta in there. Bill
                  • shadowed_statue
                    Bill, That is somewhat a new thought to me, that as a poet Kierkegaard has had much influence over me. Through his brilliant creative powers he presented
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 4, 2010
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                      Bill, That is somewhat a new thought to me, that as a poet Kierkegaard has had much influence over me. Through his brilliant creative powers he presented Christianity in a way that shows some marked differences with what one encounters in the churches, as well as presenting ethical passion and individuality in a way I had encountered nowhere else. The combination of his dialectical acumen, his humour and humanity, and his appreciation of the ancients, was too much for me to assimilate with equilibrium, as though he was the dangerous one I was reading, not Nietzsche. Again, it is all personal responsibility, there is nothing else to rely on, and it may be quite some time before I can return to Kierkegaard's work. I still feel indebted to him as to one who helped teach me how to think. So thank you for your hospitable words, even as you keep on presenting the paradox of the solitary communicator. That is one truth that remains with me from SK, quite independent of any question of faith. Human life is a collision of opposites, in time. Louise

                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Am I stearing towards p-ost modernism, hardly not. Newton is sacred text to me. I certainly do not claim understanding of all his theories.I struggle to comprehend Uncle Albert but I keep learning more. Cosmic studies still enthrall me. An off course, pedestrian theory like existentialism has no long term survival potential. But pace is as yet not a crime. When a fine poet has the patience and decency to write to me,I recend the negatation of her favorite philosopher . May you see him as a poet and I see him as a priest?
                      > > This is how people of minds should contribute. Bill
                      > > Whoops, got an extra ta in there. Bill
                      >
                    • tom
                      Louise, Bill and all, Louise wrote . I still feel indebted to him as to one who helped teach me how to think. So thank you for your hospitable words, even as
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 4, 2010
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                        Louise, Bill and all,

                        Louise wrote

                        . I still feel indebted to him as to one who helped teach me how to think. So thank you for your hospitable words, even as you keep on presenting the paradox of the solitary communicator. That is one truth that remains with me from SK, quite independent of any question of faith. Human life is a collision of opposites, in time. Louise

                        The fact of opposites in our personality has long been recognized by eastern modalities as yin and yang, and these modalities see the integration of these opposites as one of the major keys to self actualization and well being. Their integration ends the civil war within us, and gets both sides on the same team. I also believe that certain thinkers may not appeal initially to us, because some aspects within their thinking may to us bear resemblance to thinking we have begun to see as second rate. Whereas some other person without the same sort of associations mighrt find the person's ideas quite liberating. I am again reminded of the blind men, and the elephant. Because I at a given time, I am unable to get into a thinker, art form, food etc, I don't say it is worthless, only that for whatever reason I am unable at this time to experience much appetite for it. Depending on our psychological type, degrees of repression , stage of integration etc. what is valuable and tasty nutrition for one of us, might be a bunch of shit to others. Evidently shit is tasty and nutricious to flies, but not to most other living beings. Or Bill, as Dylan says in one of his 60s songs,"To each his own. It's all unknown".



                        Peace and best wishes,
                        Tom





                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: shadowed_statue
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 5:39 AM
                        Subject: [existlist] Re: The inhospitable existentialist



                        Bill, That is somewhat a new thought to me, that as a poet Kierkegaard has had much influence over me. Through his brilliant creative powers he presented Christianity in a way that shows some marked differences with what one encounters in the churches, as well as presenting ethical passion and individuality in a way I had encountered nowhere else. The combination of his dialectical acumen, his humour and humanity, and his appreciation of the ancients, was too much for me to assimilate with equilibrium, as though he was the dangerous one I was reading, not Nietzsche. Again, it is all personal responsibility, there is nothing else to rely on, and it may be quite some time before I can return to Kierkegaard's work. I still feel indebted to him as to one who helped teach me how to think. So thank you for your hospitable words, even as you keep on presenting the paradox of the solitary communicator. That is one truth that remains with me from SK, quite independent of any question of faith. Human life is a collision of opposites, in time. Louise

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Am I stearing towards p-ost modernism, hardly not. Newton is sacred text to me. I certainly do not claim understanding of all his theories.I struggle to comprehend Uncle Albert but I keep learning more. Cosmic studies still enthrall me. An off course, pedestrian theory like existentialism has no long term survival potential. But pace is as yet not a crime. When a fine poet has the patience and decency to write to me,I recend the negatation of her favorite philosopher . May you see him as a poet and I see him as a priest?
                        > > This is how people of minds should contribute. Bill
                        > > Whoops, got an extra ta in there. Bill
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • tom
                        Louise, Bill and all, -The idea of opposites just brought to mind some psychologist or psychiatrist saying that in the early stages of our lives we begin
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 4, 2010
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                          Louise, Bill and all,

                          -The idea of opposites just brought to mind some psychologist or psychiatrist saying that in the early stages of our lives we begin feeling conflicting emotions toward our parents and other close relations, and some of this confusion is carried on by us into childhood, adolescence, and what passes for adulthood. There was a John Lennon song,"Mother" which he wrote after he and Yoko underwent Primal Therapy, "Mother you had me, but I never had you. I wanted you, you didnt want me. So I just got to tell you, good by. Father, you left me, but I never left you.I needed you, but you never needed me. So I just got to tell you, good by. I am listening to it on youtube now.

                          Peace,
                          Tom



                          ---- Original Message -----
                          From: shadowed_statue
                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 5:39 AM
                          Subject: [existlist] Re: The inhospitable existentialist



                          Bill, That is somewhat a new thought to me, that as a poet Kierkegaard has had much influence over me. Through his brilliant creative powers he presented Christianity in a way that shows some marked differences with what one encounters in the churches, as well as presenting ethical passion and individuality in a way I had encountered nowhere else. The combination of his dialectical acumen, his humour and humanity, and his appreciation of the ancients, was too much for me to assimilate with equilibrium, as though he was the dangerous one I was reading, not Nietzsche. Again, it is all personal responsibility, there is nothing else to rely on, and it may be quite some time before I can return to Kierkegaard's work. I still feel indebted to him as to one who helped teach me how to think. So thank you for your hospitable words, even as you keep on presenting the paradox of the solitary communicator. That is one truth that remains with me from SK, quite independent of any question of faith. Human life is a collision of opposites, in time. Louise

                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Am I stearing towards p-ost modernism, hardly not. Newton is sacred text to me. I certainly do not claim understanding of all his theories.I struggle to comprehend Uncle Albert but I keep learning more. Cosmic studies still enthrall me. An off course, pedestrian theory like existentialism has no long term survival potential. But pace is as yet not a crime. When a fine poet has the patience and decency to write to me,I recend the negatation of her favorite philosopher . May you see him as a poet and I see him as a priest?
                          > > This is how people of minds should contribute. Bill
                          > > Whoops, got an extra ta in there. Bill
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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