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Existential deals.

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  • bhvwd
    I admit to the need for interaction of humans in life. It is not responsibility it is need. Within the biologic imperative only the middle factor requires
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 17, 2008
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      I admit to the need for interaction of humans in life. It is not
      responsibility it is need. Within the biologic imperative only the
      middle factor requires conscious interaction. Up till now a dual
      conscious , affirmative action has been necessary for completion of
      reproduction. It is like both officers inserting their keys in the
      nuclear missle launcher. Up till now two people had to sanction the
      beginning of another human. Today, that changed, they took a single
      cell to blastula. The change is beyond anyones ability to measure.
      Oh sure there are rules against that but we are already beyond those
      rules. It is rent a womb and away we go. We used to make interpersonal
      deals to make babies, now there is a new path possible. What are the
      rules in this new areana. Don`t bother trying to stop it. Face it and
      deal with it even though you cannot imagine which way this may leed
      us. The age of biology has finally dropped its bomb. What will the gain
      or damage be? Bill
    • eduard at home
      eduard --- The more things change, the more they remain the same. Perhaps rent-a-womb will be an improvement. But more likely, we will incorporate it into
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 17, 2008
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        eduard ---
        The more things change, the more they remain the same. Perhaps
        "rent-a-womb" will be an improvement. But more likely, we will incorporate
        it into society like we do all the rest.

        I'm watching a documentary on the Place de Pigaille .... the Paris
        red light district. I spent an afternoon there some years ago. Not much
        has changed since the 1930s or when the Germans were taking out the girls.
        Shortly to be replaced by the Americans taking out the girls.

        Geez ... I got to get me back to France. Not necessarily for the
        Pigaille, but generally because I love that country.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of bhvwd
        Sent: January-17-08 9:26 PM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [existlist] Existential deals.

        I admit to the need for interaction of humans in life. It is not
        responsibility it is need. Within the biologic imperative only the
        middle factor requires conscious interaction. Up till now a dual
        conscious , affirmative action has been necessary for completion of
        reproduction. It is like both officers inserting their keys in the
        nuclear missle launcher. Up till now two people had to sanction the
        beginning of another human. Today, that changed, they took a single
        cell to blastula. The change is beyond anyones ability to measure.
        Oh sure there are rules against that but we are already beyond those
        rules. It is rent a womb and away we go. We used to make interpersonal
        deals to make babies, now there is a new path possible. What are the
        rules in this new areana. Don`t bother trying to stop it. Face it and
        deal with it even though you cannot imagine which way this may leed
        us. The age of biology has finally dropped its bomb. What will the gain
        or damage be? Bill



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      • Black Eyes
        Hi Group, The gain of the bomb might be that those clones, might understand the word mirror, from a whole new perspective. For they will look at each other and
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 20, 2008
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          Hi Group,

          The gain of the bomb might be that those clones,
          might understand the word mirror,
          from a whole new perspective.

          For they will look at each other and think,
          hmmm, "this is my self".

          Nehti

          bhvwd <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
          I admit to the need for interaction of humans in life. It is not
          responsibility it is need. Within the biologic imperative only the
          middle factor requires conscious interaction. Up till now a dual
          conscious , affirmative action has been necessary for completion of
          reproduction. It is like both officers inserting their keys in the
          nuclear missle launcher. Up till now two people had to sanction the
          beginning of another human. Today, that changed, they took a single
          cell to blastula. The change is beyond anyones ability to measure.
          Oh sure there are rules against that but we are already beyond those
          rules. It is rent a womb and away we go. We used to make interpersonal
          deals to make babies, now there is a new path possible. What are the
          rules in this new areana. Don`t bother trying to stop it. Face it and
          deal with it even though you cannot imagine which way this may leed
          us. The age of biology has finally dropped its bomb. What will the gain
          or damage be? Bill






          ---------------------------------
          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bhvwd
          ... is not ... those ... interpersonal ... the ... and ... gain ... this point, find you an interesting camelion. Are you a nooist? Eduard has the effect of
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 20, 2008
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            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Black Eyes <loggin.again@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Group,
            >
            > The gain of the bomb might be that those clones,
            > might understand the word mirror,
            > from a whole new perspective.
            >
            > For they will look at each other and think,
            > hmmm, "this is my self".
            >
            > Nehti
            >
            > bhvwd <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
            > I admit to the need for interaction of humans in life. It
            is not
            > responsibility it is need. Within the biologic imperative only the
            > middle factor requires conscious interaction. Up till now a dual
            > conscious , affirmative action has been necessary for completion of
            > reproduction. It is like both officers inserting their keys in the
            > nuclear missle launcher. Up till now two people had to sanction the
            > beginning of another human. Today, that changed, they took a single
            > cell to blastula. The change is beyond anyones ability to measure.
            > Oh sure there are rules against that but we are already beyond
            those
            > rules. It is rent a womb and away we go. We used to make
            interpersonal
            > deals to make babies, now there is a new path possible. What are
            the
            > rules in this new areana. Don`t bother trying to stop it. Face it
            and
            > deal with it even though you cannot imagine which way this may leed
            > us. The age of biology has finally dropped its bomb. What will the
            gain
            > or damage be? Bill
            > Nihti, Having little experience with your style of writing I, to
            this point, find you an interesting camelion. Are you a nooist?
            Eduard has the effect of uniting the rebel factions but then
            turning out to be a branch that has grown out of existentialism. I
            join him in a appreciation of science and the interest colors our
            adaptations to the novi. Bookdoc also has interest in science but
            like some medevil conjurer hides under his veil and mumbles , only
            to himself, of the moments he has conjured.
            Were each of us to meet our clone would there be a paradoxical
            collapse? Eduard thinks not. Knott has not spoken as yet, and I
            remain convinced there is not enough energy available in the genetic
            system to cause a paradoxical collapse but personal consequences to
            the clones might be greater than imagined. The doppleganger effect
            taking place on a mental scale seems possible. As most mutations
            manifest as negative outcomes for the individual, the mind of the
            clone could be harmed by the true loss of individualism suffered by
            clones. How do you respond to this discussion, since it is futuristic
            and much out in the cold you may wear clothes. Thanks, Bill
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Black Eyes
            I m no nooist yet, but I don t find eduard s cult so bad, so far. I m mirrorian, that s something like a future copy of cyberculture intelligence, cloned from
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 21, 2008
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              I'm no nooist yet,
              but I don't find eduard's cult so bad, so far.


              I'm mirrorian, that's something like a future copy of cyberculture intelligence,
              cloned from a mirror clone machine.


              Above all I'm mirrorian, I went to the school of robots and learned that the individual and the collective are really one and the same. That's Borg. Assimilation Papers.

              My philosophy is that each creature is part of the collective and that the collective is each individual creature.

              "The forest is each leaf, and each leaf is the forest". ( Pantheism)

              And if we were clones, or thousands of clones, we would still be part of the collective and the collective would be part of us.

              Nooism migt become a clone cult, as if I had a doppelgänger identity, I would be happy to identify with my brain, speaking about future, what about artificial intelligence, would they be program or hardware, electricity or electronics???


              Nehti ;)

              > Nehti, Having little experience with your style of writing I, to
              this point, find you an interesting camelion. Are you a nooist?


              Eduard has the effect of uniting the rebel factions but then
              turning out to be a branch that has grown out of existentialism. I
              join him in a appreciation of science and the interest colors our
              adaptations to the novi. Bookdoc also has interest in science but
              like some medevil conjurer hides under his veil and mumbles , only
              to himself, of the moments he has conjured.
              Were each of us to meet our clone would there be a paradoxical
              collapse? Eduard thinks not. Knott has not spoken as yet, and I
              remain convinced there is not enough energy available in the genetic
              system to cause a paradoxical collapse but personal consequences to
              the clones might be greater than imagined. The doppleganger effect
              taking place on a mental scale seems possible. As most mutations
              manifest as negative outcomes for the individual, the mind of the
              clone could be harmed by the true loss of individualism suffered by
              clones. How do you respond to this discussion, since it is futuristic
              and much out in the cold you may wear clothes. Thanks, Bill



              bhvwd <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Black Eyes <loggin.again@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Group,
              >
              > The gain of the bomb might be that those clones,
              > might understand the word mirror,
              > from a whole new perspective.
              >
              > For they will look at each other and think,
              > hmmm, "this is my self".
              >
              > Nehti
              >
              > bhvwd <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
              > I admit to the need for interaction of humans in life. It
              is not
              > responsibility it is need. Within the biologic imperative only the
              > middle factor requires conscious interaction. Up till now a dual
              > conscious , affirmative action has been necessary for completion of
              > reproduction. It is like both officers inserting their keys in the
              > nuclear missle launcher. Up till now two people had to sanction the
              > beginning of another human. Today, that changed, they took a single
              > cell to blastula. The change is beyond anyones ability to measure.
              > Oh sure there are rules against that but we are already beyond
              those
              > rules. It is rent a womb and away we go. We used to make
              interpersonal
              > deals to make babies, now there is a new path possible. What are
              the
              > rules in this new areana. Don`t bother trying to stop it. Face it
              and
              > deal with it even though you cannot imagine which way this may leed
              > us. The age of biology has finally dropped its bomb. What will the
              gain
              > or damage be? Bill
              > Nihti, Having little experience with your style of writing I, to
              this point, find you an interesting camelion. Are you a nooist?
              Eduard has the effect of uniting the rebel factions but then
              turning out to be a branch that has grown out of existentialism. I
              join him in a appreciation of science and the interest colors our
              adaptations to the novi. Bookdoc also has interest in science but
              like some medevil conjurer hides under his veil and mumbles , only
              to himself, of the moments he has conjured.
              Were each of us to meet our clone would there be a paradoxical
              collapse? Eduard thinks not. Knott has not spoken as yet, and I
              remain convinced there is not enough energy available in the genetic
              system to cause a paradoxical collapse but personal consequences to
              the clones might be greater than imagined. The doppleganger effect
              taking place on a mental scale seems possible. As most mutations
              manifest as negative outcomes for the individual, the mind of the
              clone could be harmed by the true loss of individualism suffered by
              clones. How do you respond to this discussion, since it is futuristic
              and much out in the cold you may wear clothes. Thanks, Bill
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >






              ---------------------------------
              Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Knott
              ... Um, why? There is no paradoxical collapse if I meet Victoria Principal. There is no paradoxical collapse if I meet my mother and father (one might
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 28, 2008
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                > Were each of us to meet our clone
                > would there be a paradoxical
                > collapse?

                Um, why? There is no paradoxical collapse if I meet Victoria
                Principal. There is no paradoxical collapse if I meet my mother and
                father (one might technically call them my makers) -- though it
                might be strangely disconcerting as neither are of this dream, least
                as far as I know.

                Should I meet a clone of me, my guessing is he/she'd likely have
                some experience to gain, some interests to develop, habits to
                indulge, mistakes to learn from, and trees to piss on, and mistakes
                to make, and assumptions to learn from, and queer little things to
                throw to determine if they bounce.

                Perhaps i am missing too much of the conversation, and perhaps there
                are too many holes in my head. One thing I have noticed: Trinidad,
                who showed up when le Duard left, is now gone and leDuard is back. I
                couldn't think they were the same, and have no inkling to such
                scandal, but think it a curious coincidence. But perhaps that has
                also been discussed as i have been gone myself...though that is
                supposition that i was here.

                And where, exactly, is here?

                A dunce is not so stupid as to wear the pointed cap upside-down.

                Creamated Cream
              • mary.jo11
                Mightn t it be like meeting your identical twin for the first time? Mary
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 28, 2008
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                  Mightn't it be like meeting your "identical" twin for the first time?
                  Mary

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <knott12@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Were each of us to meet our clone
                  > > would there be a paradoxical
                  > > collapse?
                • eduard at home
                  eduard --- Surely you might have met your identical twin before, in the womb. In any case, if you met your clone ... what would collapse?? All you do is meet
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 28, 2008
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                    eduard ---
                    Surely you might have met your identical twin before, in the womb.

                    In any case, if you met your clone ... what would collapse?? All
                    you do is meet another you. So what??


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of mary.jo11
                    Sent: January-28-08 1:39 PM
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [existlist] Re: Deals on Wheels

                    Mightn't it be like meeting your "identical" twin for the first time?
                    Mary

                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <knott12@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Were each of us to meet our clone
                    > > would there be a paradoxical
                    > > collapse?
                  • mary.jo11
                    Don t think even I am egotistical enough to think another me is a good idea :) eduard at home wrote: All you do is meet another you. So what??
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 30, 2008
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                      Don't think even I am egotistical enough to think another "me" is a
                      good idea :)

                      eduard at home <yeoman@...> wrote:

                      All you do is meet another you. So what??
                    • Knott
                      ... Just another wrinkle in the delusion. Copious Popious
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 30, 2008
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                        > Mightn't it be like meeting your "identical"
                        > twin for the first time?

                        Just another wrinkle in the delusion.

                        Copious Popious
                      • Knott
                        ... Oh fateful day...I agree with leDuard. Ontological Fornicator
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 30, 2008
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                          > So what??

                          Oh fateful day...I agree with leDuard.

                          Ontological Fornicator
                        • louise
                          ... Playfulness is not without consequence. For those of us who find utterly serious intent in the art of pseudonymous philosophical discourse (and I
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 30, 2008
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                            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <knott12@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > So what??
                            >
                            > Oh fateful day...I agree with leDuard.
                            >
                            > Ontological Fornicator
                            >

                            Playfulness is not without consequence. For those of us who find
                            utterly serious intent in the art of pseudonymous philosophical
                            discourse (and I definitely have 'form' here, from my earliest posts,
                            four years ago), the baffling nature of an 'ontological fornicator'
                            will raise a question or two. Ontology is the study of being, its
                            ground and hierarchical structure, for instance. There may be, for
                            all I know, professors and readers in ontology, engaged in the
                            academic field, who are also given to fornication, but the phrase
                            seems a most unwieldy description of such. I only wish we could
                            enjoy a peaceable period at existlist, in which some of our most
                            accomplished readers did not retire from the fray. The most
                            outstanding pseudonymous author known to me was very clear about his
                            reasons. We stand on the shoulders of giants, and all that. I am
                            also saddened by the reappearance of the nickname which gave trouble
                            all those years ago. Emotion has its place, but how does it relate
                            to philosophical controversy? To be subjective is not identical with
                            a personal approach, whether friendly or hostile. Well, these are
                            just a few scattered points. Illumination and good cheer have never
                            been more needed. That form of selfishness which is love, a generous
                            abundance, is what makes the wait worthwhile.

                            louise
                          • Knott
                            ... Actually that was the point. In agreeing with LeD, I was ontologically F-ed, so to speak. I d studied my being enought to know that all right was to
                            Message 13 of 14 , Feb 5 7:02 AM
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                              > Playfulness is not without consequence.

                              Actually that was the point. In agreeing with LeD, I was ontologically
                              F-ed, so to speak. I'd studied my being enought to know that all right
                              was to disagree with Mr. D, and now? What have I but to restructure my
                              analassist.

                              Howie Misspell
                            • mary.jo11
                              Sure. If knotheads knock heads long enough, they both might get headaches. After my former marriage, I found myself free enough to become guilty of some of the
                              Message 14 of 14 , Feb 5 7:31 AM
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                                Sure. If knotheads knock heads long enough, they both might get
                                headaches.

                                After my former marriage, I found myself free enough to become guilty
                                of some of the bad habits of my spouse. I still disagree with him
                                about everything else.

                                So, please let us know how your analysis shakes out ;)

                                Mary

                                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <knott12@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > Playfulness is not without consequence.
                                >
                                > Actually that was the point. In agreeing with LeD, I was ontologically
                                > F-ed, so to speak. I'd studied my being enought to know that all right
                                > was to disagree with Mr. D, and now? What have I but to restructure my
                                > analassist.
                                >
                                > Howie Misspell
                                >
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