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Learned self destruction

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  • bhvwd
    CSW et all. CNN just informed me a b52 took a flight From Minot to down south.It was carring nukes. The us has announced what was the prior policy of
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 5, 2007
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      CSW et all. CNN just informed me a b52 took a flight From Minot to
      down south.It was carring nukes. The us has announced what was the
      prior policy of having nukes in the air. The whole damn cold war they
      were orbiting, waiting to hit their fail safe points and destroy the
      world. I guess we have trusted them with the hammer all along. It does
      bring back memories of" Duck and Cover".
      Thank you for the excellent Info about vindetta. I don`t think those
      guys need squadrons of orbiting bombers. Orbiting AK`s are bad enough.
      We just sent them enough battle assault weapons to blast away for
      decades. Our next big program for the area could be labeled Oil for
      Arms. Catchy?No. Bill
    • Mary Jo
      I recall that some of the Germanic tribes, particularly the Franks, practiced the blood oath. The Scots clans also did so until at least the 18th century, even
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 5, 2007
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        I recall that some of the Germanic tribes, particularly the Franks,
        practiced the blood oath. The Scots clans also did so until at least
        the 18th century, even brought it with them into Appalachia.

        Eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.

        Mary

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
        <existlist1@...> wrote:

        Bill / et al...

        The notion of vendetta justice evolved in a region with nomadic
        tribes. Without the artificial (but in my biased view "better")
        notions of community we have developed, a direct result of permanent
        settlements thanks for farming / domestication, tribes had to develop
        more direct balances of power. In the northern areas of the Ottoman,
        Greek justice merged with European tribal ways and we have our
        current "Western" balance of power -- the lawyer! Seriously, our
        balances between groups occur in a legal battleground (gamed by the
        state, but that's another issue).

        Tribal people didn't have the need for permanent courts. Islamic
        courts could be assembled quickly, followed a strict code mixing the
        hadith and Koran, and vendetta was an accepted part of the justice
        system. You killed one of our tribe... we'll kill two of yours. The
        problem with this is clear: what if the first death was an
        "accident"? Then, the next two become murder. Escalation occurs.

        There was a study of Arab cultures I read that concluded each side
        always "overstates" and "over reacts" to a perceived wrong. This
        would happen in our culture, too, but we seem to have decided "losing
        on appeal" is about the worst fate in a case. Arabic nations are
        working towards a similar approach -- but it will be unique to their
        cultures and not a Western idea of justice.

        A friend from Egypt told me: if you wrong me, your family is
        responsible and must also be held accountable. Your people committed
        a crime when you did.

        Think about the philosophical implications. It is the "sins of the
        father" being passed across, down, and sideways through a community.

        I'd rather say "you did this" and not hold everyone and everything
        accountable. I know society contributes. I know what I do affects
        others. But if you commit a crime, it should be you, the individual,
        who pays a price -- not everyone from your "tribe" wronged me.

        - CSW
      • louise
        Hmm .. now what about that word, vendetta ?? Doesn t look particularly Arabic, or Germanic, for that matter. Louise ... least ... develop ... decided losing
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 6, 2007
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          Hmm .. now what about that word, 'vendetta'?? Doesn't look
          particularly Arabic, or Germanic, for that matter.

          Louise
          ... spying out beams

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:
          >
          > I recall that some of the Germanic tribes, particularly the Franks,
          > practiced the blood oath. The Scots clans also did so until at
          least
          > the 18th century, even brought it with them into Appalachia.
          >
          > Eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.
          >
          > Mary
          >
          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
          > <existlist1@> wrote:
          >
          > Bill / et al...
          >
          > The notion of vendetta justice evolved in a region with nomadic
          > tribes. Without the artificial (but in my biased view "better")
          > notions of community we have developed, a direct result of permanent
          > settlements thanks for farming / domestication, tribes had to
          develop
          > more direct balances of power. In the northern areas of the Ottoman,
          > Greek justice merged with European tribal ways and we have our
          > current "Western" balance of power -- the lawyer! Seriously, our
          > balances between groups occur in a legal battleground (gamed by the
          > state, but that's another issue).
          >
          > Tribal people didn't have the need for permanent courts. Islamic
          > courts could be assembled quickly, followed a strict code mixing the
          > hadith and Koran, and vendetta was an accepted part of the justice
          > system. You killed one of our tribe... we'll kill two of yours. The
          > problem with this is clear: what if the first death was an
          > "accident"? Then, the next two become murder. Escalation occurs.
          >
          > There was a study of Arab cultures I read that concluded each side
          > always "overstates" and "over reacts" to a perceived wrong. This
          > would happen in our culture, too, but we seem to have
          decided "losing
          > on appeal" is about the worst fate in a case. Arabic nations are
          > working towards a similar approach -- but it will be unique to their
          > cultures and not a Western idea of justice.
          >
          > A friend from Egypt told me: if you wrong me, your family is
          > responsible and must also be held accountable. Your people committed
          > a crime when you did.
          >
          > Think about the philosophical implications. It is the "sins of the
          > father" being passed across, down, and sideways through a community.
          >
          > I'd rather say "you did this" and not hold everyone and everything
          > accountable. I know society contributes. I know what I do affects
          > others. But if you commit a crime, it should be you, the individual,
          > who pays a price -- not everyone from your "tribe" wronged me.
          >
          > - CSW
          >
        • Exist List Moderator
          ... It was morphed from Latin, later Italian, but linguistically it is also like several Spanish/Italian words influenced by Arabic. Vindicta was Latin for
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 11, 2007
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            On Sep 06, 2007, at 5:11, louise wrote:

            > Hmm .. now what about that word, 'vendetta'?? Doesn't look
            > particularly Arabic, or Germanic, for that matter.
            >

            It was morphed from Latin, later Italian, but linguistically it is
            also like several Spanish/Italian words influenced by Arabic.
            Vindicta was Latin for Blood Feud, the Arabic is ven taar/ al van
            thar. There is evidence the two emerged from a common root, but
            languages do not evolve neatly.

            In my last Spanish class (which I took two years ago again, so it's
            sort of fresh in my mind) there was an entire unit on Arabic words in
            Spanish. Some were definite (cotton = algodon) thanks to the "al"
            prefix. Others, starting with v, a, or t, are less obvious due to
            changes over time.

            Most would agree vendetta in current form is close to the Latin,
            definitely. That does not discount the parallel development of a
            word, but does show English took the Latin form as it evolved.

            Language is a virus.

            - C. S. Wyatt
            I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
            that I shall be.
            http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
            http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
          • louise
            ... I still feel that I know nothing with any certainty about the Italian word, vendetta . Latin, though, proves endlessly fascinating, both for itself, the
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 15, 2007
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
              <existlist1@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Sep 06, 2007, at 5:11, louise wrote:
              >
              > > Hmm .. now what about that word, 'vendetta'?? Doesn't look
              > > particularly Arabic, or Germanic, for that matter.
              > >
              >
              > It was morphed from Latin, later Italian, but linguistically it is
              > also like several Spanish/Italian words influenced by Arabic.
              > Vindicta was Latin for Blood Feud, the Arabic is ven taar/ al van
              > thar. There is evidence the two emerged from a common root, but
              > languages do not evolve neatly.

              I still feel that I know nothing with any certainty about the Italian
              word, 'vendetta'. Latin, though, proves endlessly fascinating, both
              for itself, the particular wealth of such an ordered and elegant
              language, and in regard to its poetry. Returning to the "Aeneid"
              with much pleasure, these days. And so to consult the tome:

              vindico, -are, 1 conj.,
              to lay legal claim to (a thing), whether as one's property or for its
              restoration to a free condition; arrogate, appropriate;
              Meton., to restore (to a state of liberty); set free, deliver, save;
              avenge, revenge, punish.

              vindicta, -ae, f. (vindico)
              the staff or rod with which a slave was touched in the ceremony of
              manumission; a protection, defence.

              [Smith's Latin-English dictionary, 1864].


              >
              > In my last Spanish class (which I took two years ago again, so
              it's
              > sort of fresh in my mind) there was an entire unit on Arabic words
              in
              > Spanish. Some were definite (cotton = algodon) thanks to the "al"
              > prefix. Others, starting with v, a, or t, are less obvious due to
              > changes over time.
              >
              > Most would agree vendetta in current form is close to the Latin,
              > definitely. That does not discount the parallel development of a
              > word, but does show English took the Latin form as it evolved.
              >
              > Language is a virus.

              Weird stuff (the final statement). True, that my scepticism is that
              of an aesthete, with hardly any scientific or science-based technical
              training, beyond my school studies to the age of 16, yet the ancient
              philosophical traditions too have their claims, their questions. The
              religious philosophy to which Bill has alluded includes in my opinion
              the over-reaching habits of a science which wants to account for even
              the features of human subjectivity in a language that does not
              explain, but rather excludes the fullness of the phenomenon, closes
              down the scope of discussion. It will take me time, to make good on
              earlier promises. My faith in the contemporaneity of what Heidegger
              understood about Nietzsche's vision is undiminished. Truth is
              perspectival, and repeats its forms. I believe this involves the
              facts of race, that neglected study. Such a young, thwarted
              science. Deeming the two philosophers, for now, Germanic Dane,
              Germanic Saxon; for language too is important, mother-tongue, or
              learned tongue. Man is the talking animal. With speech we name what
              is present, for body and soul, and even hold out hope for escape from
              the old, Cartesian, imprisonment. There again, I'm a mystic,
              apparently incurable.

              [interpolations by Louise]

              >
              > - C. S. Wyatt
              > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
              all
              > that I shall be.
              > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
              > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
              >
            • priyadharshini dhanagopal
              Hey u Lousie idiot stop sending me junk mails [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 26, 2007
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                Hey u Lousie idiot stop sending me junk mails


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • louise
                If you re referring to me, I am most certainly not sending you any junk mails. It s bad enough having to clear that sort of stuff from my own e-mail box.
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 26, 2007
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                  If you're referring to me, I am most certainly not sending you any junk
                  mails. It's bad enough having to clear that sort of stuff from my own
                  e-mail box. Louise

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "priyadharshini dhanagopal"
                  <larkinscholar@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hey u Lousie idiot stop sending me junk mails
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
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