Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

The Personal and the Political

Expand Messages
  • jimstuart46
    I find it strange that all you Americans should agree that, in Mary Jo s words, we re headed for very bleak times. I wonder why this deep pessimism has
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I find it strange that all you Americans should agree that, in Mary
      Jo's words, "we're headed for very bleak times." I wonder why this
      deep pessimism has suddenly overtaken you all.

      It seems to me that the "corporate cartel" has always had the upper
      hand – at least since the industrial revolution in the nineteenth
      century. But despite the cartel's ability to hoodwink the masses –
      "the herd" to use Nietzsche's expression – there has always been a
      healthy resistance from those who manage to see through the half-
      truths and lies of the cartel. The spirit of the free and caring
      individual – as captured in the posts by Trinidad and Mary Jo –
      continues to survive.

      I would go further and say that it is only with an element of strife
      and resistance that the human spirit flourishes. Without any
      conflict or struggle the individual becomes lazy and complacent.
      Cultural and intellectual diversity is necessary for human
      flourishing. The free spirit is grateful to the corporate cartel for
      giving him something to test his mettle against – and also something
      to laugh at.

      I think this spirit of doom and gloom is local to America. In
      Northern Europe community and solidarity are alive and kicking. Two
      million people marched in London in 2003 against the Iraq war –
      before the war started. Tony Blair has left office a broken man.
      Many of us have a renewed optimism that the new Prime Minister
      Gordon Brown will improve things – partly because Tony Blair hated
      him so much.

      Finally, it seems that this forum, in general, is more passionate
      about the political than about the personal. But I would have
      thought that the primary passion for the existentialist is with the
      personal. For the existentialist, the radically free individual is
      hardly touched in her thought and action by the political. Agreed
      the individual cannot flourish if she lives in a war zone, or she is
      a slave, or she does not have enough to eat. But these restrictions
      on human freedom are unlikely to apply to individuals who have
      sufficient spare time to participate in internet forums.

      The political gives us a reason to act, not an excuse to give up.

      Jim
    • eupraxis@aol.com
      Because Bush has trashed the Constitution, given the government to private corporations, and the opposition party has allowed all of it to happen with hardly
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Because Bush has trashed the Constitution, given the government to private corporations, and the "opposition" party has allowed all of it to happen with hardly a whimper; because the same interests have bankrupted the US, and have put the US in the death grip of China; because the South has reared its stupid Christian head again, with Bush and Co., and has decided that their charge of the light brigade dream of an Apocalypse is nigh; and .... well, how's that for an answer.

        Ws







        -----Original Message-----
        From: jimstuart46 <jjimstuart@...>
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 2:21 pm
        Subject: [existlist] The Personal and the Political

























        I find it strange that all you Americans should agree that, in Mary

        Jo's words, "we're headed for very bleak times." I wonder why this

        deep pessimism has suddenly overtaken you all.



        It seems to me that the "corporate cartel" has always had the upper

        hand – at least since the industrial revolution in the nineteenth

        century. But despite the cartel's ability to hoodwink the masses –

        "the herd" to use Nietzsche's expression – there has always been a

        healthy resistance from those who manage to see through the half-

        truths and lies of the cartel. The spirit of the free and caring

        individual – as captured in the posts by Trinidad and Mary Jo –

        continues to survive.



        I would go further and say that it is only with an element of strife

        and resistance that the human spirit flourishes. Without any

        conflict or struggle the individual becomes lazy and complacent.

        Cultural and intellectual diversity is necessary for human

        flourishing. The free spirit is grateful to the corporate cartel for

        giving him something to test his mettle against – and also something

        to laugh at.



        I think this spirit of doom and gloom is local to America. In

        Northern Europe community and solidarity are alive and kicking. Two

        million people marched in London in 2003 against the Iraq war –

        before the war started. Tony Blair has left office a broken man.

        Many of us have a renewed optimism that the new Prime Minister

        Gordon Brown will improve things – partly because Tony Blair hated

        him so much.



        Finally, it seems that this forum, in general, is more passionate

        about the political than about the personal. But I would have

        thought that the primary passion for the existentialist is with the

        personal. For the existentialist, the radically free individual is

        hardly touched in her thought and action by the political. Agreed

        the individual cannot flourish if she lives in a war zone, or she is

        a slave, or she does not have enough to eat. But these restrictions

        on human freedom are unlikely to apply to individuals who have

        sufficient spare time to participate in internet forums.



        The political gives us a reason to act, not an excuse to give up.



        Jim

















        ________________________________________________________________________
        AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mary Jo
        Not to mention we don t have a parliamentary system in which a no confidence vote and new election could have taken place. MJ ... private corporations, and the
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Not to mention we don't have a parliamentary system in which a no
          confidence vote and new election could have taken place.

          MJ

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > Because Bush has trashed the Constitution, given the government to
          private corporations, and the "opposition" party has allowed all of it
          to happen with hardly a whimper; because the same interests have
          bankrupted the US, and have put the US in the death grip of China;
          because the South has reared its stupid Christian head again, with Bush
          and Co., and has decided that their charge of the light brigade dream
          of an Apocalypse is nigh; and .... well, how's that for an answer.
        • eupraxis@aol.com
          Yes, or a system that allows power sharing. WS ... From: Mary Jo To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 2:50 pm Subject:
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Yes, or a system that allows power sharing.

            WS







            -----Original Message-----
            From: Mary Jo <maryjo.malo@...>
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 2:50 pm
            Subject: [existlist] Re: The Personal and the Political

























            Not to mention we don't have a parliamentary system in which a no

            confidence vote and new election could have taken place.



            MJ



            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:

            >

            >

            > Because Bush has trashed the Constitution, given the government to

            private corporations, and the "opposition" party has allowed all of it

            to happen with hardly a whimper; because the same interests have

            bankrupted the US, and have put the US in the death grip of China;

            because the South has reared its stupid Christian head again, with Bush

            and Co., and has decided that their charge of the light brigade dream

            of an Apocalypse is nigh; and .... well, how's that for an answer.

















            ________________________________________________________________________
            AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jimstuart46
            Wil, Yes, you ve given me some strong reasons for the current and future decline in quality of life in the US. I share your social and political outlook, and I
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Wil,

              Yes, you've given me some strong reasons for the current and future
              decline in quality of life in the US.

              I share your social and political outlook, and I agree the trends
              you mention are bad news for us all – Europeans as well as Americans.

              But – if I may venture a little criticism of your recent posts –
              aren't you getting things a little out of proportion? Aren't you
              overreacting a little to the bad trends?

              Whilst Trinidad, Susan and Mary Jo also share your pessimistic
              outlook, they, at least, have positive things to say about how the
              individual can still act positively and have a good quality of life
              in these difficult times.

              Your account of US decline is wholly negative, and, as I say, seems
              out of proportion. The US is still a better place to live that most
              other places in the world. Things are a whole lot worse in Iraq,
              Gaza, Darfur, Russia, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, etc.

              Also, was there ever a "golden age" of democracy in America? In the
              sixties there was discrimination and worse against blacks and gays,
              presidents and human rights leaders were murdered by rogue elements
              in the security and/or intelligence services.

              Like you I would like a genuine democracy where issues are debated
              openly and honesty, and the rights of individuals are respected over
              and above the (non-)rights of corporations. But this is just an
              ideal which we aim to achieve. In the real world, things have always
              fallen short of this ideal. And there are worse things than lack of
              democracy – like war, torture, starvation, slavery, disease.

              I wonder if, in your current expressions of despondency, you are
              focusing too much on your local concerns. A wider perspective would
              take in the whole world and not just America, and would take in the
              whole of human history and not just the years since the courts ruled
              that Bush won Florida.

              Jim
            • eupraxis@aol.com
              Well, actually, take a drive in Mississippi, for example, and tell me that it is so very more modern than the rural third world. No, I think things are as
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Well, actually, take a drive in Mississippi, for example, and tell me that it is so very more 'modern' than the rural third world. No, I think things are as bad as I have opined here.

                However, if you go back a way in my posts, you will see that I am not an abject cynic, especially in terms of philosophical issues. I think that Trinidad would be surprised to be called an optimist; he might even violently object to it. I always thought that I was the smiley face compared to him. (Joking.)

                WS







                -----Original Message-----
                From: jimstuart46 <jjimstuart@...>
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 4:52 pm
                Subject: [existlist] Re: The Personal and the Political

























                Wil,



                Yes, you've given me some strong reasons for the current and future

                decline in quality of life in the US.



                I share your social and political outlook, and I agree the trends

                you mention are bad news for us all – Europeans as well as Americans.



                But – if I may venture a little criticism of your recent posts –

                aren't you getting things a little out of proportion? Aren't you

                overreacting a little to the bad trends?



                Whilst Trinidad, Susan and Mary Jo also share your pessimistic

                outlook, they, at least, have positive things to say about how the

                individual can still act positively and have a good quality of life

                in these difficult times.



                Your account of US decline is wholly negative, and, as I say, seems

                out of proportion. The US is still a better place to live that most

                other places in the world. Things are a whole lot worse in Iraq,

                Gaza, Darfur, Russia, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, etc.



                Also, was there ever a "golden age" of democracy in America? In the

                sixties there was discrimination and worse against blacks and gays,

                presidents and human rights leaders were murdered by rogue elements

                in the security and/or intelligence services.



                Like you I would like a genuine democracy where issues are debated

                openly and honesty, and the rights of individuals are respected over

                and above the (non-)rights of corporations. But this is just an

                ideal which we aim to achieve. In the real world, things have always

                fallen short of this ideal. And there are worse things than lack of

                democracy – like war, torture, starvation, slavery, disease.



                I wonder if, in your current expressions of despondency, you are

                focusing too much on your local concerns. A wider perspective would

                take in the whole world and not just America, and would take in the

                whole of human history and not just the years since the courts ruled

                that Bush won Florida.



                Jim

















                ________________________________________________________________________
                AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mary Jo
                Just a quick response to this comment, Jim, but my understanding of Sartrean existentialism is that the personal and political are inseparable. Optimism and
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 10, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Just a quick response to this comment, Jim, but my understanding of
                  Sartrean existentialism is that the personal and political are
                  inseparable. Optimism and pessimism are psychological attitudes largely
                  conditioned by genetics and environment. I don't know that one or the
                  other excludes one from considering themselves to be existential. So
                  when one speaks of the world in terms of progress or decline, they are
                  automatically addressing the excluded and disenfranchised in terms of
                  relative freedom and security, and this is certainly always on the
                  table for discussion, since there are always exceptions to every
                  general observation. I think most reasonable people agree that global
                  warming, terror, and the loss of privacy are real and ultimate issues.

                  Mary

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "jimstuart46" <jjimstuart@...> wrote:

                  Finally, it seems that this forum, in general, is more passionate
                  about the political than about the personal. But I would have
                  thought that the primary passion for the existentialist is with the
                  personal. For the existentialist, the radically free individual is
                  hardly touched in her thought and action by the political. Agreed
                  the individual cannot flourish if she lives in a war zone, or she is
                  a slave, or she does not have enough to eat. But these restrictions
                  on human freedom are unlikely to apply to individuals who have
                  sufficient spare time to participate in internet forums.

                  The political gives us a reason to act, not an excuse to give up.

                  Jim
                • Trinidad Cruz
                  Lives were lost, but within a few decades Japan was not US occupied, Germany was whole again. There were terms to be met. National sovereignties were restored.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 10, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Lives were lost, but within a few decades Japan was not US occupied,
                    Germany was whole again. There were terms to be met. National
                    sovereignties were restored. Most of this resolution was dictated
                    behind the scenes by the same kind of macroeconomic gamesmanship that
                    began the wars in the first place. By 1949 macroeconomics began a
                    transmutation into the information age. The mechanism of economics
                    began to understand itself to a degree of predictability. New
                    mathematical theory and the computer began to refine the mechanism
                    toward useful cause and effect. Accumulated wealth found itself with a
                    new potential for previously unimagined powers of manipulation. By
                    1953 the process of disassembling unfavorable US law toward wealth and
                    big business was rededicated in giddy full swing. By the early 1970's
                    the US government was virtually overrun and assimilated by corporate
                    interests led by big oil, the pharmaceuticals, and insurance. All of
                    these interests were deeply involved with the intelligence community.
                    Standard Oil of Indiana, ITT Corp. , and interests that would become
                    Merck and Pfizer, were just a few of the covert and highly active
                    agents in Central and South American politics, and African politics.
                    New names were being made. Old names were being re-empowered. Today
                    the theory is convergence; that is a consolidation of wealth and power
                    that now directs a gamesmanship that was once between conflicting
                    interests instead toward the poor and uneducated masses. Computers
                    have enabled an unprecedented wholeness to the macroeconomic machine.
                    It is in now in charge of your life if you happen to live on the
                    planet. For those of you who happen to still labor under the
                    misperception that this is conspiracy theory; try a case study of
                    Lumumba or Allende. How much cash in US currency did Hussein actually
                    manage to hoard?

                    As much as the intelligence community has a fondness for anagrams; the
                    corporate political captains of this brave new world have a fondness
                    for gamesmanship and historical symbolism. In both cases the general
                    public is rarely in on the joke. 9/11 is an example of such
                    gamesmanship and symbolism from this cartel. Alexander Hamilton, the
                    man who endured great controversy in soliciting the wealthiest
                    citizens of the fledgling USA to fill and guarantee a treasury and
                    credit for doing international and domestic business, was sworn in as
                    the first secretary of the treasury on 9/11. To bring down the WTC
                    buildings on 9/11 is to symbolize an elbowing aside of the notion of
                    national sovereignty in favor of corporate rights that supersede
                    national rights, and a smug restoration of the nation to its rightful
                    owners without which it is tiresomely argued it would never have been
                    able to be founded or to continue. If we are expecting a new North
                    American Union essentially removing issues of sovereignty altogether
                    from business in the USA, Mexico, and Canada toward the end of this
                    summer; I suggest a date for some new publicly galvanizing event is
                    more than likely to be 8/24. On 8/24 British soldiers burned the US
                    treasury to the ground; and sat and watched it burn from a tavern
                    across the street. Today's corporate commanders are powerful men who
                    enjoy thumbing their noses at this public, while at the same time
                    paying very close attention to future historical symbolism. There will
                    be no more need for earmarks or pork barrel projects. This modern
                    cartel has devised to own the US treasury; and they do, hidden neatly
                    behind their corporate mask. You must understand that the challenge
                    for Hamilton in his day was to convince wealthy businessmen that it
                    was to their advantage to surrender to a national sovereignty for
                    protection; and not only give up a status relatively above the law,
                    but pay for the right to do so. In those days it made sense, as there
                    was an ongoing war of kings in the world; but now those same families
                    of power, those captains and kings, new and old, have devised to work
                    together, and there is no longer any advantage for them in maintaining
                    a national sovereignty for the United States, and they have determined
                    to supersede it for their own gain. The matter here is settled.

                    I read an article a while back, I forget the source, where the writer
                    used the term "third world momentum" to illustrate our immigration
                    policy. I will correct that for him. The term that is currently most
                    often used in mechanistic macroeconomics is "third world induction"
                    designating a process of assimilation designed to break down any
                    solidarity of the working class along factional lines in western
                    nations and widen the economic gap between the richest and poorest
                    citizens. I laugh when people categorize this kind of thing as
                    conspiracy theory. It is actually macroeconomics and it has been
                    around since the early fifties in roughly the same mechanistic form.
                    Better math and computers have simply enabled the agenda, and the
                    corporate elite's grip on the world will tighten as it keeps pace with
                    technology. I believe we will have world peace eventually, but most
                    ordinary people outside a ruling elite of a million or two will be
                    hungry and sick and working for subsistence.

                    My optimism is only for individuals who resist, because resistance is
                    a self reward. Rebel! It is the best of all feelings, like a soft
                    summer night, two cold beers, and a sweet soft breathy kiss. In fact,
                    it is the "something in the night".

                    Always and forever, "way too cool for school".

                    Trinidad

                    "I'm riding down Kingsley,
                    figuring I'll get a drink
                    Turn the radio up loud,
                    so I don't have to think,
                    I take her to the floor,
                    looking for a moment when the world seems right,
                    And I tear into the guts,
                    of something in the night.

                    You're born with nothing,
                    and better off that way,
                    Soon as you've got something they send
                    someone to try and take it away,
                    You can ride this road 'till dawn,
                    without another human being in sight,
                    Just kids wasted on
                    something in the night.

                    Nothing is forgotten or forgiven,
                    when it's your last time around,
                    I got stuff running 'round my head
                    That I just can't live down.

                    When we found the things we loved,
                    They were crushed and dying in the dirt.
                    We tried to pick up the pieces,
                    And get away without getting hurt,
                    But they caught us at the state line,
                    And burned our cars in one last fight,
                    And left us running burned and blind,
                    Chasing something in the night."
                    (Bruce Springsteen)
                  • Mary Jo
                    TC, After that diagnosis this is the best you can offer? Perhaps you re feeling a temporary bravado, but I m not. Don t think it will render much comfort to
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 10, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      TC,

                      After that diagnosis this is the best you can offer? Perhaps you're
                      feeling a temporary bravado, but I'm not. Don't think it will render
                      much comfort to the starving, wounded and dispossessed either, not to
                      mention that the tired old liberal rhetoric of 'resist' and 'rebel'
                      doesn't actually prevent global warming, terror, or the individual's
                      loss of privacy. I'm optimistic about some of the people, some of the
                      time, but how does that translate into responsible existential action?
                      I need examples, man, as a basis for discussion, that is, since we're
                      only talking about action.

                      MJ

                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Trinidad Cruz" <TriniCruz@...> wrote:

                      My optimism is only for individuals who resist, because resistance is
                      a self reward. Rebel! It is the best of all feelings, like a soft
                      summer night, two cold beers, and a sweet soft breathy kiss. In fact,
                      it is the "something in the night".
                    • Exist List Moderator
                      Hello from our new (old) house in Minneapolis. The office is nearly complete (oh, so close!) and our two computer desks are up and running. ... They are
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 10, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello from our new (old) house in Minneapolis. The office is nearly
                        complete (oh, so close!) and our two computer desks are up and running.

                        On Aug 10, 2007, at 12:21, Mary Jo wrote:

                        > Just a quick response to this comment, Jim, but my understanding of
                        > Sartrean existentialism is that the personal and political are
                        > inseparable.

                        They are inseparable in most modern (and "post-modern") thought. All
                        actions, even inactions, are political. However, I disagree with this
                        to some very nuanced extent. I actually do believe art can be created
                        for arts sake -- a complete disagreement with some forms of Marxism
                        and an argument within the Frankfurt School for two decades.

                        Is my choice to be in MN political? It has political *implications*
                        to the two states -- since I am depriving California of my money and
                        my mind for a time (sarcasm, people!) -- but my choice was primarily
                        based on a fellowship offer and research facilities at the university
                        here.

                        Now, my research? Definitely political in the sense that I work on
                        and advocate for the education of disabled individuals. I do not see
                        this contradicting my "libertarian" bent because I view public
                        education and even some form of basic child health care as preventing
                        later social ills. You can't have unemployed, sick, ignorant people
                        and still have a society.... unless you wish to be Spartans.

                        > general observation. I think most reasonable people agree that global
                        > warming, terror, and the loss of privacy are real and ultimate issues.

                        Ah, but I fear the loss of privacy from the right and left. I don't
                        want anyone, regardless of party or ideology, peeking into my private
                        life without consent, nor do I want my lifestyle to be part of the
                        political system -- goes back to everything being political.


                        - C. S. Wyatt
                        I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
                        that I shall be.
                        http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                        http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
                      • Exist List Moderator
                        One need not have deep and dark conspiracy theories to know that American Exceptionalism and a sense of Divine Right ( Manifest Destiny ) have guided not
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 10, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          One need not have deep and dark conspiracy theories to know that
                          "American Exceptionalism" and a sense of Divine Right ("Manifest
                          Destiny") have guided not only this nation but the rise and fall of
                          various powers over the centuries. Greek city-states, the Egyptian
                          Empire, the Roman Empire, the Persians, the Inca, the Aztec, the
                          United Kingdom....

                          Nations have always been controlled by a ruling elite. These men and
                          the rare woman or two (Victoria, certainly) imagine they can do no
                          wrong. The work with companies, churches, tribes, or any other
                          organizations willing to further the state. The East India Companies
                          (the Royal and Honourable, the Dutch, and later the Portuguese) to
                          this day acquired wealth that surpasses (adjusted for inflation) the
                          entire Dow 30. And they did this in the name of "progress" and the
                          assumption that European ways of life were superior and exceptional.

                          The Opium Wars stole more wealth and enslaved more people over 155
                          years (though you could say the last 30-40 of British Rule were quite
                          superior to Chinese rule, sadly) than the Secret Wars of the U.S. and
                          its allies in Central and South America. However, neither is morally
                          defensible -- and certainly no one should dismiss wrongs based solely
                          on history.

                          My point is that nothing changes... we cycle and the names change.
                          The Catholic Church gives way to East India gives way to Standard Oil
                          and Royal Dutch. I dare suggest Gazprom will make any U.S. or
                          European company look like a little lemonade stand if we aren't careful.

                          It doesn't matter who runs the camp. Frankl and others suggest that
                          freedom is personal. It is the personal struggle that matters because
                          larger events -- while we can do something -- are often far beyond
                          our control. We must do what things help us survive so we can help
                          others, but we cannot help an entire world until enough minds change.

                          Wealth was more concentrated at the founding of America in terms of
                          percentages of people, but the spread between rich and poor has
                          increased steadily since 1935. That just means more rich people are
                          arguing over the wealth... and that means they can be "used" against
                          each other in the right situations.

                          The problem is how to live your own life so you do not join in the
                          race to be part of a disconnected elite. And what if you are in the
                          top 2 percent? What if you are one of the rich, earning more than
                          $200,000 or having more than $1 million in assets? It means you
                          simply own a home in New York or California... I know a couple of
                          "super rich" in California and they don't have lives. No thanks.

                          I'd rather be free than super wealthy. That is yet another prison of
                          competitiveness.

                          - CSW
                        • Trinidad Cruz
                          ... After that diagnosis this is the best you can offer? Mary Jo In their terms, in their unwashed bandage of stinking fear, in corporate terms: the pledge
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 11, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:

                            "After that diagnosis this is the best you can offer?"
                            Mary Jo

                            In their terms, in their unwashed bandage of stinking fear, in
                            corporate terms: the pledge is peace, the turn is terror, the prestige
                            is control.

                            For us, the ones who resist, there is no magic; only our own
                            existential synthesis overwhelming an unforgiving set of stars that
                            scream inside the dirty dreams of broken men: but there is Kowalski
                            out on that highway alone refusing to stop, forcing an individual
                            synthesis from himself, gone before gone, the vanishing point, the
                            undefeated untouchable rebel, hell raising Jesus rockin' on the radio
                            blasted in slipstreamed on a long black wave from freedomland like a
                            fire on a door; and they seem to find you, but you're not there, just
                            flaming junk and stopped traffic; and then you got the chain smokin'
                            benny bumpin' dark horse jitters and jumps, and they film you and you
                            die, gunned down for pushin' back, and you twitch your way through the
                            epitaph, too wired to be buried - ever; `cause the dirt keeps falling
                            off the hole that can't sit still `cause you're in it; and Oakland
                            shakes and quivers every now and then, and bridges sometimes fall...
                            Resistance is a family, without a government, without a civilization,
                            without a religion. Its children are anywhere, yet at all times home.
                            No one asks them who they are at home; because they could not be there
                            unless they were family.

                            This civilization today, this modern atrocity, this spitting out of
                            tainted blood, this joke of greed, of untasting unrelenting
                            cannibalism, is all the dead zone, the trek, the too long word, that
                            cannot be written and rhymed in time to finish the poem. In Paris
                            there are millions upon millions of human bones stored in caverns and
                            mines under the city. To see them all at once is to understand
                            unfinished poems, words too long to rhyme, pointless epitaphs, and
                            nonsense shaped liked prayer - the syncretistic necromancy of
                            control... I will go home, but I will never be sent there. Someone who
                            knows how to get there would never send me anywhere.

                            Resistance is now a family of unspoken promises, unpreached dreams,
                            untaught truth, unconquered land, held together only by unforced
                            goodness, and home only up along the river of being what it is; an
                            elegant delicate ribbon of the judgment of goodness across, before,
                            and beyond the brutal universe - that old set of stars and motion that
                            is nothing more than a cannibalistic crypt out of which the dead have
                            awakened to say better into the said that is said is life. So shake,
                            so twitch, so rumble, rattle, roll, throw the motion of goodness into
                            the abyss and percolate the bones. Tear through the necropolis like a
                            blasting new night wind pulling the planets out of orbit, and the
                            crooked stars from the cruel sky. Be good. That is home. This is a
                            synthetic graveyard, a bad dream trying to finish itself. It does in
                            your resistance. You walk away into yourself like a long lost love.

                            Trinidad
                          • Knott
                            ... TC, I usually hate your writing because I think you are trying to make a point, and I can never understand what it is because the meaning is muffled by the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 12, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              > hell raising Jesus rockin' on the radio
                              > blasted in slipstreamed on a long black wave from freedomland like a
                              > fire on a door; and they seem to find you, but you're not there, just
                              > flaming junk and stopped traffic; and then you got the chain smokin'
                              > benny bumpin' dark horse jitters and jumps, and they film you and you
                              > die, gunned down for pushin' back, and you twitch your way through the
                              > epitaph, too wired to be buried - ever; `cause the dirt keeps falling
                              > off the hole that can't sit still `cause you're in it;

                              TC,
                              I usually hate your writing because I think you are trying to make a point, and I can never
                              understand what it is because the meaning is muffled by the volume. Suffice to say that while
                              I likely don't know what exactly you are intimating here, I like the prose, so I'll ignore the
                              'point'. It could be a Steeley Dan song.

                              Drek N. Coat
                            • Trinidad Cruz
                              ... because the meaning is muffled by the volume. Drek N. Coat When I first spoke and then wrote, this is the criticism I received. I have been criticized
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 12, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <knott12@...> wrote:

                                "because the meaning is muffled by the volume." Drek N. Coat

                                When I first spoke and then wrote, this is the criticism I received. I
                                have been criticized my entire life, by family, friends, lovers,
                                aquaintances, peers, and critics for exactly the same thing. The
                                smartest of them figure out I am yelling at myself for not being good
                                enough; but some others I care about I lose over it. That is a
                                difficulty I have never overcome, and it is too late now. I can only
                                continue.

                                It is nice to hear from you again. I hope you are well enough to be
                                interested in yourself with some intensity. I have always thought you
                                could write the Great Wall of China down if you wanted to.

                                I am scared to death for my kids.

                                still, "too cool for school"
                                Trinidad
                              • Mary Jo
                                TC, Don t feel too badly. The only people who get criticized are those who actually do something. The Prestige is a great movie, and the storyline about
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 12, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  TC,

                                  Don't feel too badly. The only people who get criticized are those who
                                  actually do something.

                                  "The Prestige" is a great movie, and the storyline about Tesla was
                                  intriguing.

                                  Oh, and the paragraph about how the critic makes the review a new piece
                                  of art is dear to my heart.

                                  Onward,
                                  MJ



                                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Trinidad Cruz" <TriniCruz@...> wrote:

                                  ...I have been criticized my entire life, by family, friends, lovers,
                                  aquaintances, peers, and critics...
                                • Knott
                                  ... Regretfully criticism is like politic. Unless you believe it is of merrit it is useless to you. I like critique when it confirms what I already am suspect
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 13, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > When I first spoke and then wrote,
                                    > this is the criticism I received.

                                    Regretfully criticism is like politic. Unless you believe it is of
                                    merrit it is useless to you. I like critique when it confirms what I
                                    already am suspect of...of course not that it makes it true, or any
                                    more (or less) correct than it was before. It is as it one is sitting
                                    on a fence balanced by three helium baloons in each hand and he waits
                                    for some defect or flying debris to make a decision for him as to
                                    which side he should fall...

                                    > I hope you are well enough to be
                                    > interested in yourself with some intensity.

                                    Wait, was I sick?

                                    Knott Thatti Know
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.