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Re: Resistance is futile

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  • Mary Jo
    Probably true, but I don t see Existentialism as a defeatist philosophy. MJ ... I m thinkin downhill.
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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      Probably true, but I don't see Existentialism as a defeatist philosophy.

      MJ

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:

      I'm thinkin' downhill.
    • bhvwd
      He`s the one he is the hero he`s the one who takes us to play.If we scream will you still love us, Will you want us the way that you do? Make me an angel that
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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        He`s the one he is the hero he`s the one who takes us to play.If we
        scream will you still love us, Will you want us the way that you do?
        Make me an angel that flies from montemgomery. Make me a poster of an
        old rodio. Om needing one thing I can hold on to. To live this nlife
        is a long way to go.
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        Existentialism is what inheres when folks consider their life as real and ultimate. That will not mitigate the coming decline in world consciousness. Sadly. WS
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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          Existentialism is what inheres when folks consider their life as real
          and ultimate. That will not mitigate the coming decline in world
          consciousness. Sadly.

          WS


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Mary Jo <maryjo.malo@...>
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:28 am
          Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile























          Probably true, but I don't see Existentialism as a
          defeatist philosophy.



          MJ



          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:



          I'm thinkin' downhill.






















          ________________________________________________________________________
          AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
          from AOL at AOL.com.
          =0
        • Trinidad Cruz
          ... Where do we go from here? Mary Jo ... To live this life is a long way to go. Bill I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo" <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:

            "Where do we go from here?"
            Mary Jo

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:

            "To live this life is a long way to go."
            Bill

            I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept
            is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from
            them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics
            for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which
            dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the
            progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the
            ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going
            back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is
            already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is
            going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering
            anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to
            de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.
            Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in
            which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The
            world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be
            won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to
            dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate
            space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche
            I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over
            dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing
            from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no
            longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are
            aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You
            have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My
            faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will
            not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,
            "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".
            They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that
            responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the
            instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I
            am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it
            up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect
            any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow
            oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man
            who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -
            disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human
            being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden
            under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the
            individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already
            judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of
            what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make
            peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical
            terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally
            forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think
            and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it
            outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.
            There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The
            road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully
            surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is
            no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there
            - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.

            Trinidad Cruz

            "I pity the poor immigrant
            Who wishes he would've stayed home,
            Who uses all his power to do evil
            But in the end is always left so alone.
            That man whom with his fingers cheats
            And who lies with every breath,
            Who passionately hates his life
            And likewise, fears his death.

            I pity the poor immigrant
            Whose strength is spent in vain,
            Whose heaven is like Ironsides,
            Whose tears are like rain,
            Who eats but is not satisfied,
            Who hears but does not see,
            Who falls in love with wealth itself
            And turns his back on me.

            I pity the poor immigrant
            Who tramples through the mud,
            Who fills his mouth with laughing
            And who builds his town with blood,
            Whose visions in the final end
            Must shatter like the glass.
            I pity the poor immigrant
            When his gladness comes to pass."

            (Bob Dylan)
          • eupraxis@aol.com
            TC, An era has suddenly closed. One would think that this means that another has taken its place. But we are entering a phase of existence without anything
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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              TC,

              An era has suddenly closed. One would think that this means that
              another has taken its place. But we are entering a phase of existence
              without anything eral about it. It is a shadow time. A hollowed
              nothingness without a prescribed subject, without a civil agent whose
              civility is part of any real nurturing social context.

              Run for your lives!

              WS


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Trinidad Cruz <TriniCruz@...>
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:27 pm
              Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile























              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo"
              <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:



              "Where do we go from here?"

              Mary Jo



              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:



              "To live this life is a long way to go."

              Bill



              I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept

              is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from

              them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics

              for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which

              dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the

              progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the

              ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going

              back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is

              already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is

              going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering

              anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to

              de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.

              Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in

              which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The

              world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be

              won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to

              dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate

              space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche

              I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over

              dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing

              from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no

              longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are

              aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You

              have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My

              faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will

              not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,

              "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".

              They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that

              responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the

              instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I

              am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it

              up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect

              any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow

              oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man

              who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -

              disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human

              being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden

              under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the

              individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already

              judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of

              what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make

              peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical

              terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally

              forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think

              and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it

              outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.

              There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The

              road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully

              surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is

              no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there

              - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.



              Trinidad Cruz



              "I pity the poor immigrant

              Who wishes he would've stayed home,

              Who uses all his power to do evil

              But in the end is always left so alone.

              That man whom with his fingers cheats

              And who lies with every breath,

              Who passionately hates his life

              And likewise, fears his death.



              I pity the poor immigrant

              Whose strength is spent in vain,

              Whose heaven is like Ironsides,

              Whose tears are like rain,

              Who eats but is not satisfied,

              Who hears but does not see,

              Who falls in love with wealth itself

              And turns his back on me.



              I pity the poor immigrant

              Who tramples through the mud,

              Who fills his mouth with laughing

              And who builds his town with blood,

              Whose visions in the final end

              Must shatter like the glass.

              I pity the poor immigrant

              When his gladness comes to pass."



              (Bob Dylan)






















              ________________________________________________________________________
              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
              from AOL at AOL.com.
              =0
            • Mary Jo
              Perhaps the sense of we will return when more individuals are in the same boat. As long as class is promoted by the media and most can still consume for
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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                Perhaps the sense of "we" will return when more individuals are in the
                same boat. As long as class is promoted by the media and most can still
                consume for their identity, we'll be rowing against one another. There
                will come a new era for ethical existentialism. That's my hope anyway.

                MJ

                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:

                A hollowed nothingness without a prescribed subject, without a civil
                agent whose civility is part of any real nurturing social context.
              • Susan Kalior
                WS, I feel the same way. Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have to get completely lost before they are found. Running deep beneath the
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 7, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  WS,
                  I feel the same way. Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have
                  to get completely lost before they are found. Running deep beneath the conscious
                  mind is the flowing pulse of life itself, and when the outer world gets too broken,
                  and begins to crumble, the programmed self is cracked and sinks into the deeper
                  flow, and again becomes renewed. I really love the thoughts and insights running
                  in this group.
                  Sincerely, Susan







                  Susan D. Kalior, M.A.
                  Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures
                  www.bluewingworkshops.com
                  The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being
                  Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)

                  "Live the Mystery"

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: eupraxis@...
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:56 AM
                  Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile


                  TC,

                  An era has suddenly closed. One would think that this means that
                  another has taken its place. But we are entering a phase of existence
                  without anything eral about it. It is a shadow time. A hollowed
                  nothingness without a prescribed subject, without a civil agent whose
                  civility is part of any real nurturing social context.

                  Run for your lives!

                  WS

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Trinidad Cruz <TriniCruz@...>
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:27 pm
                  Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo"
                  <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:

                  "Where do we go from here?"

                  Mary Jo

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:

                  "To live this life is a long way to go."

                  Bill

                  I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept

                  is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from

                  them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics

                  for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which

                  dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the

                  progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the

                  ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going

                  back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is

                  already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is

                  going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering

                  anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to

                  de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.

                  Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in

                  which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The

                  world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be

                  won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to

                  dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate

                  space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche

                  I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over

                  dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing

                  from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no

                  longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are

                  aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You

                  have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My

                  faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will

                  not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,

                  "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".

                  They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that

                  responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the

                  instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I

                  am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it

                  up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect

                  any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow

                  oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man

                  who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -

                  disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human

                  being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden

                  under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the

                  individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already

                  judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of

                  what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make

                  peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical

                  terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally

                  forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think

                  and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it

                  outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.

                  There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The

                  road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully

                  surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is

                  no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there

                  - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.

                  Trinidad Cruz

                  "I pity the poor immigrant

                  Who wishes he would've stayed home,

                  Who uses all his power to do evil

                  But in the end is always left so alone.

                  That man whom with his fingers cheats

                  And who lies with every breath,

                  Who passionately hates his life

                  And likewise, fears his death.

                  I pity the poor immigrant

                  Whose strength is spent in vain,

                  Whose heaven is like Ironsides,

                  Whose tears are like rain,

                  Who eats but is not satisfied,

                  Who hears but does not see,

                  Who falls in love with wealth itself

                  And turns his back on me.

                  I pity the poor immigrant

                  Who tramples through the mud,

                  Who fills his mouth with laughing

                  And who builds his town with blood,

                  Whose visions in the final end

                  Must shatter like the glass.

                  I pity the poor immigrant

                  When his gladness comes to pass."

                  (Bob Dylan)

                  __________________________________________________________
                  AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
                  from AOL at AOL.com.
                  =0




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Susan Kalior
                  TC, your words are deeply moving. I have felt that way when I tried to stand alone on a point of principle. It doesn t sound as bountifully beautiful as all
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 7, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    TC, your words are deeply moving. I have felt that way when I tried to stand
                    alone on a point of principle. It doesn't sound as bountifully beautiful as all
                    you have written, but just stopping public school uniforms from coming into
                    my community was one of the most trying things I ever did. I was all alone in
                    it. I wrote articles that were printed in the paper, and the town almost crucified
                    me with rebuttles and outright put downs of who I am and to go away. I just
                    wanted the individuality of each student to be embraced and encouraged
                    instead of giving the message that all should act and look and think the same.
                    The shocking thing is, that after I did a sociological survey in the county regarding
                    uniforms, versus peer mediation etc. the town actually abandoned the idea of
                    public uniforms. I just kept coming back like a bad penny. My last name had
                    a bad ring for quite some time and I was glad it was different from my childrens.
                    But I felt I had to hold onto that living breathing pulse that flowed beneath the
                    programmed world or I would be nothing. Your words touch me deeply. You
                    are a beautiful writer and express yourself with great intelligence and passion.
                    Sincerely, Susan




                    Susan D. Kalior, M.A.
                    Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures
                    www.bluewingworkshops.com
                    The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being
                    Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)

                    "Live the Mystery"

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Trinidad Cruz
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:27 AM
                    Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile


                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo" <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:

                    "Where do we go from here?"
                    Mary Jo

                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:

                    "To live this life is a long way to go."
                    Bill

                    I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept
                    is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from
                    them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics
                    for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which
                    dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the
                    progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the
                    ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going
                    back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is
                    already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is
                    going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering
                    anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to
                    de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.
                    Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in
                    which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The
                    world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be
                    won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to
                    dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate
                    space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche
                    I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over
                    dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing
                    from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no
                    longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are
                    aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You
                    have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My
                    faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will
                    not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,
                    "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".
                    They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that
                    responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the
                    instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I
                    am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it
                    up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect
                    any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow
                    oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man
                    who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -
                    disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human
                    being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden
                    under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the
                    individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already
                    judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of
                    what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make
                    peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical
                    terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally
                    forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think
                    and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it
                    outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.
                    There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The
                    road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully
                    surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is
                    no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there
                    - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.

                    Trinidad Cruz

                    "I pity the poor immigrant
                    Who wishes he would've stayed home,
                    Who uses all his power to do evil
                    But in the end is always left so alone.
                    That man whom with his fingers cheats
                    And who lies with every breath,
                    Who passionately hates his life
                    And likewise, fears his death.

                    I pity the poor immigrant
                    Whose strength is spent in vain,
                    Whose heaven is like Ironsides,
                    Whose tears are like rain,
                    Who eats but is not satisfied,
                    Who hears but does not see,
                    Who falls in love with wealth itself
                    And turns his back on me.

                    I pity the poor immigrant
                    Who tramples through the mud,
                    Who fills his mouth with laughing
                    And who builds his town with blood,
                    Whose visions in the final end
                    Must shatter like the glass.
                    I pity the poor immigrant
                    When his gladness comes to pass."

                    (Bob Dylan)





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • eupraxis@aol.com
                    Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have to get completely lost before they are found. Sometimes they just get lost. WS ... From: Susan Kalior
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 7, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      "Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have

                      to get completely lost before they are found."

                      Sometimes they just get lost.

                      WS







                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Susan Kalior <sdkalior@...>
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:21 am
                      Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile

























                      WS,

                      I feel the same way. Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have

                      to get completely lost before they are found. Running deep beneath the conscious

                      mind is the flowing pulse of life itself, and when the outer world gets too broken,

                      and begins to crumble, the programmed self is cracked and sinks into the deeper

                      flow, and again becomes renewed. I really love the thoughts and insights running

                      in this group.

                      Sincerely, Susan



                      Susan D. Kalior, M.A.

                      Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures

                      www.bluewingworkshops.com

                      The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being

                      Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)



                      "Live the Mystery"



                      ----- Original Message -----

                      From: eupraxis@...

                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com

                      Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:56 AM

                      Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile



                      TC,



                      An era has suddenly closed. One would think that this means that

                      another has taken its place. But we are entering a phase of existence

                      without anything eral about it. It is a shadow time. A hollowed

                      nothingness without a prescribed subject, without a civil agent whose

                      civility is part of any real nurturing social context.



                      Run for your lives!



                      WS



                      -----Original Message-----

                      From: Trinidad Cruz <TriniCruz@...>

                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com

                      Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:27 pm

                      Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile



                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo"

                      <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:



                      "Where do we go from here?"



                      Mary Jo



                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:



                      "To live this life is a long way to go."



                      Bill



                      I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept



                      is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from



                      them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics



                      for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which



                      dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the



                      progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the



                      ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going



                      back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is



                      already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is



                      going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering



                      anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to



                      de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.



                      Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in



                      which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The



                      world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be



                      won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to



                      dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate



                      space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche



                      I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over



                      dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing



                      from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no



                      longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are



                      aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You



                      have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My



                      faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will



                      not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,



                      "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".



                      They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that



                      responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the



                      instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I



                      am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it



                      up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect



                      any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow



                      oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man



                      who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -



                      disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human



                      being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden



                      under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the



                      individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already



                      judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of



                      what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make



                      peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical



                      terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally



                      forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think



                      and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it



                      outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.



                      There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The



                      road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully



                      surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is



                      no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there



                      - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.



                      Trinidad Cruz



                      "I pity the poor immigrant



                      Who wishes he would've stayed home,



                      Who uses all his power to do evil



                      But in the end is always left so alone.



                      That man whom with his fingers cheats



                      And who lies with every breath,



                      Who passionately hates his life



                      And likewise, fears his death.



                      I pity the poor immigrant



                      Whose strength is spent in vain,



                      Whose heaven is like Ironsides,



                      Whose tears are like rain,



                      Who eats but is not satisfied,



                      Who hears but does not see,



                      Who falls in love with wealth itself



                      And turns his back on me.



                      I pity the poor immigrant



                      Who tramples through the mud,



                      Who fills his mouth with laughing



                      And who builds his town with blood,



                      Whose visions in the final end



                      Must shatter like the glass.



                      I pity the poor immigrant



                      When his gladness comes to pass."



                      (Bob Dylan)



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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Susan Kalior
                      However, nothing stays the same. Sincerely, Susan Susan D. Kalior, M.A. Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures www.bluewingworkshops.com The Other
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 7, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        However, nothing stays the same.
                        Sincerely, Susan

                        Susan D. Kalior, M.A.
                        Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures
                        www.bluewingworkshops.com
                        The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being
                        Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)

                        "Live the Mystery"

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: eupraxis@...
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:42 AM
                        Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile



                        "Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have

                        to get completely lost before they are found."

                        Sometimes they just get lost.

                        WS

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Susan Kalior <sdkalior@...>
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:21 am
                        Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile

                        WS,

                        I feel the same way. Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have

                        to get completely lost before they are found. Running deep beneath the conscious

                        mind is the flowing pulse of life itself, and when the outer world gets too broken,

                        and begins to crumble, the programmed self is cracked and sinks into the deeper

                        flow, and again becomes renewed. I really love the thoughts and insights running

                        in this group.

                        Sincerely, Susan

                        Susan D. Kalior, M.A.

                        Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures

                        www.bluewingworkshops.com

                        The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being

                        Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)

                        "Live the Mystery"

                        ----- Original Message -----

                        From: eupraxis@...

                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com

                        Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:56 AM

                        Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile

                        TC,

                        An era has suddenly closed. One would think that this means that

                        another has taken its place. But we are entering a phase of existence

                        without anything eral about it. It is a shadow time. A hollowed

                        nothingness without a prescribed subject, without a civil agent whose

                        civility is part of any real nurturing social context.

                        Run for your lives!

                        WS

                        -----Original Message-----

                        From: Trinidad Cruz <TriniCruz@...>

                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com

                        Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:27 pm

                        Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo"

                        <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:

                        "Where do we go from here?"

                        Mary Jo

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:

                        "To live this life is a long way to go."

                        Bill

                        I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept

                        is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from

                        them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics

                        for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which

                        dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the

                        progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the

                        ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going

                        back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is

                        already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is

                        going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering

                        anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to

                        de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.

                        Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in

                        which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The

                        world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be

                        won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to

                        dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate

                        space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche

                        I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over

                        dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing

                        from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no

                        longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are

                        aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You

                        have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My

                        faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will

                        not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,

                        "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".

                        They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that

                        responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the

                        instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I

                        am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it

                        up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect

                        any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow

                        oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man

                        who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -

                        disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human

                        being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden

                        under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the

                        individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already

                        judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of

                        what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make

                        peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical

                        terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally

                        forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think

                        and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it

                        outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.

                        There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The

                        road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully

                        surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is

                        no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there

                        - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.

                        Trinidad Cruz

                        "I pity the poor immigrant

                        Who wishes he would've stayed home,

                        Who uses all his power to do evil

                        But in the end is always left so alone.

                        That man whom with his fingers cheats

                        And who lies with every breath,

                        Who passionately hates his life

                        And likewise, fears his death.

                        I pity the poor immigrant

                        Whose strength is spent in vain,

                        Whose heaven is like Ironsides,

                        Whose tears are like rain,

                        Who eats but is not satisfied,

                        Who hears but does not see,

                        Who falls in love with wealth itself

                        And turns his back on me.

                        I pity the poor immigrant

                        Who tramples through the mud,

                        Who fills his mouth with laughing

                        And who builds his town with blood,

                        Whose visions in the final end

                        Must shatter like the glass.

                        I pity the poor immigrant

                        When his gladness comes to pass."

                        (Bob Dylan)

                        __________________________________________________________

                        AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free

                        from AOL at AOL.com.

                        =0

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        __________________________________________________________
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Richard
                        Susan said, However, nothing stays the same. For change to be percieved it has to be contrasted against a changeless background. Sometimes I wonder if the
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Susan said, >>"However, nothing stays the same."

                          For change to be percieved it has to be contrasted against a changeless
                          background.

                          Sometimes I wonder if the laws of the Universe DO remain the same, and its
                          only mans awareness that is changing

                          _________________________________________________________________
                          The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk
                        • eupraxis@aol.com
                          ... Neither, I would say. WS ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > Sometimes I wonder if the laws of the Universe DO remain the same, and its
                            > only mans awareness that is changing
                            >
                            Neither, I would say.

                            WS



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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Susan Kalior
                            In the perception of time and space, lost and found exist. Outside of time and space, can anything? Perhaps time and space are concepts that come from no time
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              In the perception of time and space, lost and found exist.
                              Outside of time and space, can anything?
                              Perhaps time and space are concepts that come from no time and no space?
                              In that case, everything changes, yet nothing does.
                              Perceptions of reality make the 'play' what it is. I agree with you Richard, man's
                              changing awareness is a primary factor in sensing the concept of 'time.'
                              Sincerely, Susan Kalior

                              Susan D. Kalior, M.A.
                              Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures
                              www.bluewingworkshops.com
                              The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being
                              Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)

                              "Live the Mystery"

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Richard
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:59 AM
                              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile



                              Susan said, >>"However, nothing stays the same."

                              For change to be percieved it has to be contrasted against a changeless
                              background.

                              Sometimes I wonder if the laws of the Universe DO remain the same, and its
                              only mans awareness that is changing

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                              The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk





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