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  • bhvwd
    He`s the one he is the hero he`s the one who takes us to play.If we scream will you still love us, Will you want us the way that you do? Make me an angel that
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 3, 2007
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      He`s the one he is the hero he`s the one who takes us to play.If we
      scream will you still love us, Will you want us the way that you do?
      Make me an angel that flies from montemgomery. Make me a poster of an
      old rodio. Om needing one thing I can hold on to. To live this nlife
      is a long way to go.
    • maryjo.malo
      Where do we go from here? Mary Jo
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 4, 2007
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        Where do we go from here?

        Mary Jo

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > He`s the one he is the hero he`s the one who takes us to play.If we
        > scream will you still love us, Will you want us the way that you do?
        > Make me an angel that flies from montemgomery. Make me a poster of an
        > old rodio. Om needing one thing I can hold on to. To live this nlife
        > is a long way to go.
        >
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        ... I m thinkin downhill. Wil ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 4, 2007
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          > Where do we go from here?
          > Mary Jo
          >
          I'm thinkin' downhill.
          Wil


          **************************************
          Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
          at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mary Jo
          Probably true, but I don t see Existentialism as a defeatist philosophy. MJ ... I m thinkin downhill.
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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            Probably true, but I don't see Existentialism as a defeatist philosophy.

            MJ

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:

            I'm thinkin' downhill.
          • bhvwd
            He`s the one he is the hero he`s the one who takes us to play.If we scream will you still love us, Will you want us the way that you do? Make me an angel that
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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              He`s the one he is the hero he`s the one who takes us to play.If we
              scream will you still love us, Will you want us the way that you do?
              Make me an angel that flies from montemgomery. Make me a poster of an
              old rodio. Om needing one thing I can hold on to. To live this nlife
              is a long way to go.
            • eupraxis@aol.com
              Existentialism is what inheres when folks consider their life as real and ultimate. That will not mitigate the coming decline in world consciousness. Sadly. WS
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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                Existentialism is what inheres when folks consider their life as real
                and ultimate. That will not mitigate the coming decline in world
                consciousness. Sadly.

                WS


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Mary Jo <maryjo.malo@...>
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:28 am
                Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile























                Probably true, but I don't see Existentialism as a
                defeatist philosophy.



                MJ



                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:



                I'm thinkin' downhill.






















                ________________________________________________________________________
                AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
                from AOL at AOL.com.
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              • Trinidad Cruz
                ... Where do we go from here? Mary Jo ... To live this life is a long way to go. Bill I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo" <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:

                  "Where do we go from here?"
                  Mary Jo

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:

                  "To live this life is a long way to go."
                  Bill

                  I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept
                  is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from
                  them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics
                  for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which
                  dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the
                  progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the
                  ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going
                  back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is
                  already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is
                  going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering
                  anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to
                  de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.
                  Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in
                  which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The
                  world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be
                  won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to
                  dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate
                  space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche
                  I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over
                  dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing
                  from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no
                  longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are
                  aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You
                  have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My
                  faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will
                  not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,
                  "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".
                  They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that
                  responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the
                  instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I
                  am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it
                  up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect
                  any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow
                  oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man
                  who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -
                  disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human
                  being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden
                  under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the
                  individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already
                  judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of
                  what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make
                  peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical
                  terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally
                  forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think
                  and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it
                  outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.
                  There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The
                  road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully
                  surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is
                  no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there
                  - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.

                  Trinidad Cruz

                  "I pity the poor immigrant
                  Who wishes he would've stayed home,
                  Who uses all his power to do evil
                  But in the end is always left so alone.
                  That man whom with his fingers cheats
                  And who lies with every breath,
                  Who passionately hates his life
                  And likewise, fears his death.

                  I pity the poor immigrant
                  Whose strength is spent in vain,
                  Whose heaven is like Ironsides,
                  Whose tears are like rain,
                  Who eats but is not satisfied,
                  Who hears but does not see,
                  Who falls in love with wealth itself
                  And turns his back on me.

                  I pity the poor immigrant
                  Who tramples through the mud,
                  Who fills his mouth with laughing
                  And who builds his town with blood,
                  Whose visions in the final end
                  Must shatter like the glass.
                  I pity the poor immigrant
                  When his gladness comes to pass."

                  (Bob Dylan)
                • eupraxis@aol.com
                  TC, An era has suddenly closed. One would think that this means that another has taken its place. But we are entering a phase of existence without anything
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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                    TC,

                    An era has suddenly closed. One would think that this means that
                    another has taken its place. But we are entering a phase of existence
                    without anything eral about it. It is a shadow time. A hollowed
                    nothingness without a prescribed subject, without a civil agent whose
                    civility is part of any real nurturing social context.

                    Run for your lives!

                    WS


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Trinidad Cruz <TriniCruz@...>
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:27 pm
                    Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile























                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo"
                    <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:



                    "Where do we go from here?"

                    Mary Jo



                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:



                    "To live this life is a long way to go."

                    Bill



                    I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept

                    is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from

                    them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics

                    for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which

                    dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the

                    progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the

                    ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going

                    back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is

                    already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is

                    going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering

                    anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to

                    de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.

                    Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in

                    which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The

                    world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be

                    won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to

                    dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate

                    space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche

                    I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over

                    dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing

                    from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no

                    longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are

                    aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You

                    have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My

                    faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will

                    not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,

                    "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".

                    They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that

                    responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the

                    instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I

                    am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it

                    up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect

                    any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow

                    oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man

                    who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -

                    disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human

                    being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden

                    under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the

                    individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already

                    judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of

                    what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make

                    peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical

                    terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally

                    forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think

                    and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it

                    outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.

                    There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The

                    road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully

                    surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is

                    no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there

                    - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.



                    Trinidad Cruz



                    "I pity the poor immigrant

                    Who wishes he would've stayed home,

                    Who uses all his power to do evil

                    But in the end is always left so alone.

                    That man whom with his fingers cheats

                    And who lies with every breath,

                    Who passionately hates his life

                    And likewise, fears his death.



                    I pity the poor immigrant

                    Whose strength is spent in vain,

                    Whose heaven is like Ironsides,

                    Whose tears are like rain,

                    Who eats but is not satisfied,

                    Who hears but does not see,

                    Who falls in love with wealth itself

                    And turns his back on me.



                    I pity the poor immigrant

                    Who tramples through the mud,

                    Who fills his mouth with laughing

                    And who builds his town with blood,

                    Whose visions in the final end

                    Must shatter like the glass.

                    I pity the poor immigrant

                    When his gladness comes to pass."



                    (Bob Dylan)






















                    ________________________________________________________________________
                    AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
                    from AOL at AOL.com.
                    =0
                  • Mary Jo
                    Perhaps the sense of we will return when more individuals are in the same boat. As long as class is promoted by the media and most can still consume for
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 5, 2007
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                      Perhaps the sense of "we" will return when more individuals are in the
                      same boat. As long as class is promoted by the media and most can still
                      consume for their identity, we'll be rowing against one another. There
                      will come a new era for ethical existentialism. That's my hope anyway.

                      MJ

                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:

                      A hollowed nothingness without a prescribed subject, without a civil
                      agent whose civility is part of any real nurturing social context.
                    • Susan Kalior
                      WS, I feel the same way. Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have to get completely lost before they are found. Running deep beneath the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 7, 2007
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                        WS,
                        I feel the same way. Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have
                        to get completely lost before they are found. Running deep beneath the conscious
                        mind is the flowing pulse of life itself, and when the outer world gets too broken,
                        and begins to crumble, the programmed self is cracked and sinks into the deeper
                        flow, and again becomes renewed. I really love the thoughts and insights running
                        in this group.
                        Sincerely, Susan







                        Susan D. Kalior, M.A.
                        Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures
                        www.bluewingworkshops.com
                        The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being
                        Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)

                        "Live the Mystery"

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: eupraxis@...
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:56 AM
                        Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile


                        TC,

                        An era has suddenly closed. One would think that this means that
                        another has taken its place. But we are entering a phase of existence
                        without anything eral about it. It is a shadow time. A hollowed
                        nothingness without a prescribed subject, without a civil agent whose
                        civility is part of any real nurturing social context.

                        Run for your lives!

                        WS

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Trinidad Cruz <TriniCruz@...>
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:27 pm
                        Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo"
                        <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:

                        "Where do we go from here?"

                        Mary Jo

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:

                        "To live this life is a long way to go."

                        Bill

                        I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept

                        is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from

                        them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics

                        for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which

                        dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the

                        progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the

                        ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going

                        back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is

                        already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is

                        going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering

                        anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to

                        de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.

                        Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in

                        which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The

                        world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be

                        won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to

                        dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate

                        space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche

                        I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over

                        dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing

                        from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no

                        longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are

                        aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You

                        have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My

                        faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will

                        not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,

                        "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".

                        They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that

                        responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the

                        instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I

                        am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it

                        up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect

                        any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow

                        oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man

                        who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -

                        disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human

                        being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden

                        under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the

                        individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already

                        judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of

                        what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make

                        peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical

                        terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally

                        forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think

                        and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it

                        outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.

                        There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The

                        road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully

                        surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is

                        no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there

                        - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.

                        Trinidad Cruz

                        "I pity the poor immigrant

                        Who wishes he would've stayed home,

                        Who uses all his power to do evil

                        But in the end is always left so alone.

                        That man whom with his fingers cheats

                        And who lies with every breath,

                        Who passionately hates his life

                        And likewise, fears his death.

                        I pity the poor immigrant

                        Whose strength is spent in vain,

                        Whose heaven is like Ironsides,

                        Whose tears are like rain,

                        Who eats but is not satisfied,

                        Who hears but does not see,

                        Who falls in love with wealth itself

                        And turns his back on me.

                        I pity the poor immigrant

                        Who tramples through the mud,

                        Who fills his mouth with laughing

                        And who builds his town with blood,

                        Whose visions in the final end

                        Must shatter like the glass.

                        I pity the poor immigrant

                        When his gladness comes to pass."

                        (Bob Dylan)

                        __________________________________________________________
                        AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
                        from AOL at AOL.com.
                        =0




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Susan Kalior
                        TC, your words are deeply moving. I have felt that way when I tried to stand alone on a point of principle. It doesn t sound as bountifully beautiful as all
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 7, 2007
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                          TC, your words are deeply moving. I have felt that way when I tried to stand
                          alone on a point of principle. It doesn't sound as bountifully beautiful as all
                          you have written, but just stopping public school uniforms from coming into
                          my community was one of the most trying things I ever did. I was all alone in
                          it. I wrote articles that were printed in the paper, and the town almost crucified
                          me with rebuttles and outright put downs of who I am and to go away. I just
                          wanted the individuality of each student to be embraced and encouraged
                          instead of giving the message that all should act and look and think the same.
                          The shocking thing is, that after I did a sociological survey in the county regarding
                          uniforms, versus peer mediation etc. the town actually abandoned the idea of
                          public uniforms. I just kept coming back like a bad penny. My last name had
                          a bad ring for quite some time and I was glad it was different from my childrens.
                          But I felt I had to hold onto that living breathing pulse that flowed beneath the
                          programmed world or I would be nothing. Your words touch me deeply. You
                          are a beautiful writer and express yourself with great intelligence and passion.
                          Sincerely, Susan




                          Susan D. Kalior, M.A.
                          Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures
                          www.bluewingworkshops.com
                          The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being
                          Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)

                          "Live the Mystery"

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Trinidad Cruz
                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:27 AM
                          Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile


                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo" <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:

                          "Where do we go from here?"
                          Mary Jo

                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:

                          "To live this life is a long way to go."
                          Bill

                          I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept
                          is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from
                          them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics
                          for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which
                          dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the
                          progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the
                          ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going
                          back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is
                          already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is
                          going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering
                          anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to
                          de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.
                          Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in
                          which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The
                          world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be
                          won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to
                          dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate
                          space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche
                          I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over
                          dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing
                          from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no
                          longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are
                          aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You
                          have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My
                          faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will
                          not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,
                          "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".
                          They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that
                          responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the
                          instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I
                          am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it
                          up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect
                          any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow
                          oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man
                          who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -
                          disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human
                          being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden
                          under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the
                          individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already
                          judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of
                          what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make
                          peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical
                          terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally
                          forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think
                          and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it
                          outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.
                          There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The
                          road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully
                          surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is
                          no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there
                          - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.

                          Trinidad Cruz

                          "I pity the poor immigrant
                          Who wishes he would've stayed home,
                          Who uses all his power to do evil
                          But in the end is always left so alone.
                          That man whom with his fingers cheats
                          And who lies with every breath,
                          Who passionately hates his life
                          And likewise, fears his death.

                          I pity the poor immigrant
                          Whose strength is spent in vain,
                          Whose heaven is like Ironsides,
                          Whose tears are like rain,
                          Who eats but is not satisfied,
                          Who hears but does not see,
                          Who falls in love with wealth itself
                          And turns his back on me.

                          I pity the poor immigrant
                          Who tramples through the mud,
                          Who fills his mouth with laughing
                          And who builds his town with blood,
                          Whose visions in the final end
                          Must shatter like the glass.
                          I pity the poor immigrant
                          When his gladness comes to pass."

                          (Bob Dylan)





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • eupraxis@aol.com
                          Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have to get completely lost before they are found. Sometimes they just get lost. WS ... From: Susan Kalior
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 7, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            "Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have

                            to get completely lost before they are found."

                            Sometimes they just get lost.

                            WS







                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Susan Kalior <sdkalior@...>
                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:21 am
                            Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile

























                            WS,

                            I feel the same way. Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have

                            to get completely lost before they are found. Running deep beneath the conscious

                            mind is the flowing pulse of life itself, and when the outer world gets too broken,

                            and begins to crumble, the programmed self is cracked and sinks into the deeper

                            flow, and again becomes renewed. I really love the thoughts and insights running

                            in this group.

                            Sincerely, Susan



                            Susan D. Kalior, M.A.

                            Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures

                            www.bluewingworkshops.com

                            The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being

                            Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)



                            "Live the Mystery"



                            ----- Original Message -----

                            From: eupraxis@...

                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com

                            Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:56 AM

                            Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile



                            TC,



                            An era has suddenly closed. One would think that this means that

                            another has taken its place. But we are entering a phase of existence

                            without anything eral about it. It is a shadow time. A hollowed

                            nothingness without a prescribed subject, without a civil agent whose

                            civility is part of any real nurturing social context.



                            Run for your lives!



                            WS



                            -----Original Message-----

                            From: Trinidad Cruz <TriniCruz@...>

                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com

                            Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:27 pm

                            Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile



                            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo"

                            <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:



                            "Where do we go from here?"



                            Mary Jo



                            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:



                            "To live this life is a long way to go."



                            Bill



                            I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept



                            is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from



                            them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics



                            for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which



                            dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the



                            progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the



                            ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going



                            back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is



                            already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is



                            going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering



                            anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to



                            de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.



                            Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in



                            which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The



                            world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be



                            won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to



                            dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate



                            space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche



                            I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over



                            dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing



                            from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no



                            longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are



                            aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You



                            have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My



                            faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will



                            not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,



                            "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".



                            They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that



                            responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the



                            instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I



                            am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it



                            up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect



                            any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow



                            oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man



                            who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -



                            disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human



                            being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden



                            under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the



                            individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already



                            judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of



                            what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make



                            peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical



                            terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally



                            forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think



                            and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it



                            outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.



                            There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The



                            road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully



                            surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is



                            no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there



                            - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.



                            Trinidad Cruz



                            "I pity the poor immigrant



                            Who wishes he would've stayed home,



                            Who uses all his power to do evil



                            But in the end is always left so alone.



                            That man whom with his fingers cheats



                            And who lies with every breath,



                            Who passionately hates his life



                            And likewise, fears his death.



                            I pity the poor immigrant



                            Whose strength is spent in vain,



                            Whose heaven is like Ironsides,



                            Whose tears are like rain,



                            Who eats but is not satisfied,



                            Who hears but does not see,



                            Who falls in love with wealth itself



                            And turns his back on me.



                            I pity the poor immigrant



                            Who tramples through the mud,



                            Who fills his mouth with laughing



                            And who builds his town with blood,



                            Whose visions in the final end



                            Must shatter like the glass.



                            I pity the poor immigrant



                            When his gladness comes to pass."



                            (Bob Dylan)



                            __________________________________________________________

                            AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free

                            from AOL at AOL.com.

                            =0



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















                            ________________________________________________________________________
                            AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Susan Kalior
                            However, nothing stays the same. Sincerely, Susan Susan D. Kalior, M.A. Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures www.bluewingworkshops.com The Other
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 7, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              However, nothing stays the same.
                              Sincerely, Susan

                              Susan D. Kalior, M.A.
                              Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures
                              www.bluewingworkshops.com
                              The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being
                              Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)

                              "Live the Mystery"

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: eupraxis@...
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:42 AM
                              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile



                              "Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have

                              to get completely lost before they are found."

                              Sometimes they just get lost.

                              WS

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Susan Kalior <sdkalior@...>
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:21 am
                              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile

                              WS,

                              I feel the same way. Cycles do move round though, and sometimes people have

                              to get completely lost before they are found. Running deep beneath the conscious

                              mind is the flowing pulse of life itself, and when the outer world gets too broken,

                              and begins to crumble, the programmed self is cracked and sinks into the deeper

                              flow, and again becomes renewed. I really love the thoughts and insights running

                              in this group.

                              Sincerely, Susan

                              Susan D. Kalior, M.A.

                              Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures

                              www.bluewingworkshops.com

                              The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being

                              Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)

                              "Live the Mystery"

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              From: eupraxis@...

                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com

                              Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:56 AM

                              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile

                              TC,

                              An era has suddenly closed. One would think that this means that

                              another has taken its place. But we are entering a phase of existence

                              without anything eral about it. It is a shadow time. A hollowed

                              nothingness without a prescribed subject, without a civil agent whose

                              civility is part of any real nurturing social context.

                              Run for your lives!

                              WS

                              -----Original Message-----

                              From: Trinidad Cruz <TriniCruz@...>

                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com

                              Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:27 pm

                              Subject: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile

                              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "maryjo.malo"

                              <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:

                              "Where do we go from here?"

                              Mary Jo

                              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@>wrote:

                              "To live this life is a long way to go."

                              Bill

                              I think what the ordinary American needs to realize and utterly accept

                              is: that a corporate cartel has seized their better dreams away from

                              them. Some of those dreams were worthless, some were not. Where ethics

                              for the future lie with the ordinary man is in determining which

                              dreams had human value. Resistance is futile in the sense that the

                              progress of these dream-slayers can never be checked. The facts of the

                              ordinary American's life have already changed, and there is no going

                              back. No amount of resistance can deter the agenda; because it is

                              already established, the situation exists; and in fact all that is

                              going on is the cleaning up of minor details, and the lingering

                              anticipation of a future dalliance with science dedicated to

                              de-populating the world. In this sense resistance is futile.

                              Resistance has become a matter of individual judgment, a matter in

                              which the individual ordinary man has to answer only to himself. The

                              world, the human species, no longer belong to him; and they cannot be

                              won back in battle. His only real possession is his sense of hoping to

                              dignify his human dreams; the sense that lies in the indeterminate

                              space of what he could think. In this kind of judgment, like Nietzche

                              I say, lies the power of self-obviation, the power of giving over

                              dreams, the power of vacating imagination, the power of disappearing

                              from the human condition. What will you do then - when you can no

                              longer judge yourself? I'll tell you - absolutely nothing that you are

                              aware of. You are void. You are not there. You did it to yourself. You

                              have that power. I have put myself in a position to judge myself. My

                              faith, my belief, my name, lies in this alone. I will resist. I will

                              not void myself. They may say, "He is dead!", or "He is doomed!" or,

                              "His resistance is futile!", but they will never say, "He is void!".

                              They cannot judge me. In my resistance I have freed them of that

                              responsibility they seek to usurp of me. I have overthrown them in the

                              instant of their act against me. I am what a man is for as long as I

                              am a man; and what I could think can never be killed unless I give it

                              up. I will not. When resistance is futile, when dissent cannot effect

                              any ethical change, when organized violent revolution cannot overthrow

                              oppression, we have come upon a real judgment day. The individual man

                              who can still judge himself will. The rest are already void -

                              disappearing debris alongside a trail of the evolution of a human

                              being through the cosmos. Crimes against humanity may not be hidden

                              under another name to set aside individual judgment as long as the

                              individual man keeps the prize of judging himself. He has already

                              judged the cosmos; and in that judgment found it wanting in terms of

                              what he could think, terms of real human joy. He cannot then make

                              peace with those who would rule the world and men in purely physical

                              terms behind a mask of group justified degeneracy that has finally

                              forsaken any hope in the value of what an individual man could think

                              and fallen back to call the cosmos law in simple cowardice and turn it

                              outward in a fearful frenzy of arrogance upon their better brothers.

                              There is no road back that does not lead to the void for a man. The

                              road is always forward into self-judgment. I will not peacefully

                              surrender my prize, and no one can take it from me, but me. There is

                              no God, but oh, there is goodness. You have thought of it. It is there

                              - in you. There and here I stand. My lot is decided.

                              Trinidad Cruz

                              "I pity the poor immigrant

                              Who wishes he would've stayed home,

                              Who uses all his power to do evil

                              But in the end is always left so alone.

                              That man whom with his fingers cheats

                              And who lies with every breath,

                              Who passionately hates his life

                              And likewise, fears his death.

                              I pity the poor immigrant

                              Whose strength is spent in vain,

                              Whose heaven is like Ironsides,

                              Whose tears are like rain,

                              Who eats but is not satisfied,

                              Who hears but does not see,

                              Who falls in love with wealth itself

                              And turns his back on me.

                              I pity the poor immigrant

                              Who tramples through the mud,

                              Who fills his mouth with laughing

                              And who builds his town with blood,

                              Whose visions in the final end

                              Must shatter like the glass.

                              I pity the poor immigrant

                              When his gladness comes to pass."

                              (Bob Dylan)

                              __________________________________________________________

                              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free

                              from AOL at AOL.com.

                              =0

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              __________________________________________________________
                              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Richard
                              Susan said, However, nothing stays the same. For change to be percieved it has to be contrasted against a changeless background. Sometimes I wonder if the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Susan said, >>"However, nothing stays the same."

                                For change to be percieved it has to be contrasted against a changeless
                                background.

                                Sometimes I wonder if the laws of the Universe DO remain the same, and its
                                only mans awareness that is changing

                                _________________________________________________________________
                                The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk
                              • eupraxis@aol.com
                                ... Neither, I would say. WS ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  > Sometimes I wonder if the laws of the Universe DO remain the same, and its
                                  > only mans awareness that is changing
                                  >
                                  Neither, I would say.

                                  WS



                                  **************************************
                                  Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
                                  http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Susan Kalior
                                  In the perception of time and space, lost and found exist. Outside of time and space, can anything? Perhaps time and space are concepts that come from no time
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 8, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    In the perception of time and space, lost and found exist.
                                    Outside of time and space, can anything?
                                    Perhaps time and space are concepts that come from no time and no space?
                                    In that case, everything changes, yet nothing does.
                                    Perceptions of reality make the 'play' what it is. I agree with you Richard, man's
                                    changing awareness is a primary factor in sensing the concept of 'time.'
                                    Sincerely, Susan Kalior

                                    Susan D. Kalior, M.A.
                                    Blue Wing Publications, Workshops, and Lectures
                                    www.bluewingworkshops.com
                                    The Other Side of God: The Eleven Gem Odyssey of Being
                                    Warriors in the Mist (a medieval dark fantasy)

                                    "Live the Mystery"

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Richard
                                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:59 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Resistance is futile



                                    Susan said, >>"However, nothing stays the same."

                                    For change to be percieved it has to be contrasted against a changeless
                                    background.

                                    Sometimes I wonder if the laws of the Universe DO remain the same, and its
                                    only mans awareness that is changing

                                    __________________________________________________________
                                    The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk





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