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Re: [existlist] Re: Need some help with debate

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  • Bill Harris
    I hate to be so retrograde but how do I accsss Satres play? Bill ... From: Eduard Alf To: Sent: Monday,
    Message 1 of 69 , Oct 30, 2001
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      I hate to be so retrograde but how do I accsss Satres play? Bill
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 6:25 PM
      Subject: RE: [existlist] Re: Need some help with debate


      > Thanks for the compliment ... I think .. :-)
      >
      > It is indeed a difficult time. The aim of terrorism is terror. Both
      Canada
      > and the United States do not have history that entails invasion, at least
      as
      > would influence today's perspective. The attempted invasion of Canada in
      > 1812 by the United States really has no meaning in our present world.
      There
      > may be some who are old enough to remember German U-boats in the Gulf of
      St.
      > Lawrence, but that too is far in the past.
      >
      > I think that what bothers people is how easy our infrastructure is open to
      > attack. Our oil and electricity lines were not designed with an enemy in
      > mind. Quebec, for example, has most of it energy supply in two lines that
      > come down from the James Bay watershed and from the Manicouagan reservoir.
      > A lot of people are concerned about a possible repeat of something like
      the
      > 1998 ice storm. Not many outside the area realise how close Montreal was
      to
      > being shut down completely. But even at that, it was startling to see the
      > army dumping cord wood in the parking lots of shopping malls for people
      > lucky enough to have a wood stove. I spent a week in the basement keeping
      > my stove going. All considered it was more of an adventure that turned
      into
      > boredom, yet it would really be something, if this was to last for a month
      > or so.
      >
      > eduard
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
      > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 4:55 PM
      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Need some help with debate
      >
      >
      > Eduard, At least you have the luxury of knowing what your country is all
      > about. Iv always thought of Canadians as being Minnesotians with brains.
      > A
      > simple , relevant patriotism such as you display is refreshing. Try it
      > here
      > and youll be drowned out by the drumb beating. There is a great deal of
      > fear
      > down here. The soccer moms are hiding in their split levels, people want
      > to
      > cybercommute. This "war" doesnt connect. Pattons "sting of battle" does
      > not
      > register. Life insurance is making a big comeback. People who have had
      > significant negative life experiences are little bothered but the
      > uninitiated are having a bad time. Chos, real or imagined. is rearing
      up.
      > Many Americans have seen very little threat in their lives, not too many
      > bears down here , Eeh. I remember my CBW , NCO who spoke at length
      > about
      > such plesantrys as sarin antrax, GB, ect. I was really scared but it
      > fades.
      > He suggested atropine and a 45 as the final cure for some of the more
      > lethal of the these agents. Our population is not ready for that much
      > reality, yet. Please bear with us, a frightened elephant can be calmed,
      > carefully, very carefully. Bill
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
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    • Bill Harris
      Jim, drill, drill, drill, drill, . That will be 2360.00. Im a dentist you know. Just kidding, I mostly agree with you. Bill ... From: Jim Aiden
      Message 69 of 69 , Oct 31, 2001
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        Jim, drill, drill, drill, drill, . That will be 2360.00. Im a dentist you
        know. Just kidding, I mostly agree with you. Bill
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Jim Aiden" <livewild@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:34 PM
        Subject: [existlist] Nationhood


        >
        > Ryan,
        >
        > I couple of related items.....
        >
        > I'm so with you in the decomposition of nations, but it is not a
        > taste that is as simple as saying "Our country no longer exists" Just
        > as you said, a country represents a collection of activities but many
        > of those activities are based on fundamental processes of the state.
        > Most key of these is federal taxes for defense spending and other
        > similar insurance type programs.
        >
        > In a world of dangerous people and differences in process handling
        > (i.e some citizens in some countries believe healthcare is the
        > responsibility of the state, or that the state and G~D are one), if
        > you eliminate the state the activites could change. That would make
        > many people unhappy and would impose on their right to choose. I think
        > this is sometimes forgotten in the West's haste to 'enlighten'. As
        > difficult as it is for people to understand, many people not only
        > don't want the lifestyle we have, but actual fear and feel sorry for
        > us. The Romans, the Ottoman Turks, the Greeks, dominated thought for
        > many years in much of the world. Are their societies enlightened?
        > Depends who you talk to. But by today's standards, they were quite
        > ignorant.
        > We tend to measure everything from an Existentialist view of life.
        > How long we live? How many vacations we take a year? How big our
        > buildings are? Other societies often measure by things far more
        > difficult to quantify... happiness, spirituality and goodness
        >
        > Perhaps I will be drilled for this but I'm not so certain our
        > society is better in those respects and would feel much more
        > comfortable if those things were quantified much more concretely
        > within our culture. We seem to force ourselves down other people's
        > throats all the time, and say it is in the name of freedom and
        > co-operation. But I don't see Islamic bases in Europe or
        > North America. So why should ours be there? Ah yes, to protect oil
        > reserves for you and I. Otherwise perhaps I would be walking to work.
        > I never realized this was an inalienable right. And perhaps, to a
        > degree, to prevent potential enemies from getting too powerful.
        >
        > It's a fine line between being a tyrant and defending oneself. Some
        > scholars to this day argue the Japan's attact of Pearl Harbour was
        > simple an act to protect itself from enivitable American imperialism
        > and military activity.
        >
        > J.Aiden
        >
        > --------------------------------------------
        >
        > --- In existlist@y..., "Ryan Dewald" <rdewald@c...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > <<It is important to have pride in one's culture. In one's country.
        > > Otherwise you don't have a country. >>
        > >
        > > Who needs a country?
        > >
        > > I think I can understand the song that you are stepping to Eduard.
        > I spent
        > > 5 months in Australia and I got a healthy education on American
        > imperialism.
        > > I think you're right too that, while Australia also struggles with
        > identity
        > > given its British ties and American influence, Canada is all but
        > engulfed in
        > > American dominance. But to have pride for pride's sake, well that's
        > > professional sports now isn't it?
        > >
        > > Eduard, perhaps you can help me with something. I have been trying
        > to learn
        > > why we continue to talk about countries in this discussion as though
        > they
        > > are presumed to be vital. So I will simply ask outright: what do
        > we need
        > > countries for? Canada, U.S.A. any of them? What in heck is the
        > American
        > > way? A trillion activities a minute by 280 million people and
        > someone has
        > > the audacity to claim to know the "American way". Those are always
        > the
        > > troublemakers. The ones with the bumper stickers that read
        > "America, love
        > > it or leave it" What the fuck does THAT mean???
        > >
        > > Ryan
        >
        >
        >
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