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Re: Money, that's what they want... Re: [existlist] other puttings

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  • Exist List Moderator
    ... Very different wars, different times. Before, we demanded withdrawal thinking it would bring peace. Now, we don t care if it brings a much wider, more
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 11, 2007
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      On Jan 11, 2007, at 9:00, Mary wrote:

      > As I ponder even more recent comparisons between the Iraq and Vietnam
      > wars, I wonder if the ratio of philosophical:pragmatist students is
      > about to change again.

      Very different wars, different times.

      Before, we demanded withdrawal thinking it would bring peace. Now, we
      don't care if it brings a much wider, more deadly war. We are inured
      to religious violence, be it in Somalia, Nigeria, Bosnia, or Iraq.

      We're giving up on the Middle East, North Africa, and new problems in
      the Balkans. I read an article about honor killings in Bosnia. A NATO
      patrol officer said, "It's how they are" when asked about Bosnian
      Muslims killing women raped by Serbs. The Serbs rape the women,
      knowing it is an effective weapon -- the women will be killed by
      their own families. NATO does nothing, as usual.

      We don't care anymore. Is that better than Vietnam? I don't think so.

      Vietnam did not take on such an aura. People are more confused now.
      Is this a war against Islamic radicals? You cannot have a war "on
      terror" -- terror is a tactic, not a group of people.

      No, the backdrop of Vietnam was not like this.

      Do a Google search on Minneapolis or Minnesota and Muslim. We've had
      problems at the airport, on campus, and in a particular neighborhood.
      I could list at least six major events in the last two months leading
      to confrontations here. (That's how we ended up with a Republican "I
      love God" governor elected by the suburbs and a Democrat "I'll use
      the Qu'ran" congressman from the city.)

      I had students complain about being accosted for not dressing more
      modestly. (This is Minnesota -- you are always modest to keep
      warm!!!) These students started to develop very strong biases
      (prejudices?) against the groups wandering campus telling everyone
      how to behave.

      I had a student sum it the local attitude: "I don't care if we went
      there to help Shiites or Sunnis or whatever. Let them kill each
      other." That's a very, very sad commentary on what is happening.
      People now assume it is the natural state of things for two religious
      sects to kills each other forever.

      Sure, we want to leave Iraq. But is this because of a military
      failure, or is this because we think "those people" will just kill
      each other off and it won't be our problem anymore?

      That's not Vietnam. One took nearly 60,000 American lives and
      increased our tolerance while the other is taking 3,000 lives and
      decreasing our tolerance.

      - C. S. Wyatt
      I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
      that I shall be.
      http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
      http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
    • eupraxis@aol.com
      We have to get out, ASAP. Period. Wil ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 12, 2007
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        We have to get out, ASAP. Period.

        Wil


        In a message dated 1/11/07 8:43:28 PM, existlist1@... writes:


        > On Jan 11, 2007, at 9:00, Mary wrote:
        >
        > > As I ponder even more recent comparisons between the Iraq and Vietnam
        > > wars, I wonder if the ratio of philosophical: wars, I wonder if the
        > > about to change again.
        >
        > Very different wars, different times.
        >
        > Before, we demanded withdrawal thinking it would bring peace. Now, we
        > don't care if it brings a much wider, more deadly war. We are inured
        > to religious violence, be it in Somalia, Nigeria, Bosnia, or Iraq.
        >
        > We're giving up on the Middle East, North Africa, and new problems in
        > the Balkans. I read an article about honor killings in Bosnia. A NATO
        > patrol officer said, "It's how they are" when asked about Bosnian
        > Muslims killing women raped by Serbs. The Serbs rape the women,
        > knowing it is an effective weapon -- the women will be killed by
        > their own families. NATO does nothing, as usual.
        >
        > We don't care anymore. Is that better than Vietnam? I don't think so.
        >
        > Vietnam did not take on such an aura. People are more confused now.
        > Is this a war against Islamic radicals? You cannot have a war "on
        > terror" -- terror is a tactic, not a group of people.
        >
        > No, the backdrop of Vietnam was not like this.
        >
        > Do a Google search on Minneapolis or Minnesota and Muslim. We've had
        > problems at the airport, on campus, and in a particular neighborhood.
        > I could list at least six major events in the last two months leading
        > to confrontations here. (That's how we ended up with a Republican "I
        > love God" governor elected by the suburbs and a Democrat "I'll use
        > the Qu'ran" congressman from the city.)
        >
        > I had students complain about being accosted for not dressing more
        > modestly. (This is Minnesota -- you are always modest to keep
        > warm!!!) These students started to develop very strong biases
        > (prejudices? (prejudices?<wbr>) against the groups wandering campus
        > how to behave.
        >
        > I had a student sum it the local attitude: "I don't care if we went
        > there to help Shiites or Sunnis or whatever. Let them kill each
        > other." That's a very, very sad commentary on what is happening.
        > People now assume it is the natural state of things for two religious
        > sects to kills each other forever.
        >
        > Sure, we want to leave Iraq. But is this because of a military
        > failure, or is this because we think "those people" will just kill
        > each other off and it won't be our problem anymore?
        >
        > That's not Vietnam. One took nearly 60,000 American lives and
        > increased our tolerance while the other is taking 3,000 lives and
        > decreasing our tolerance.
        >
        > - C. S. Wyatt
        > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
        > that I shall be.
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Exist List Moderator
        ... Apart from the politics, I fear we have an increasingly prejudicial view (maybe rightly so) of their religious nuts and ours. What I worry is that this
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 12, 2007
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          On Jan 12, 2007, at 7:24, eupraxis@... wrote:

          > We have to get out, ASAP. Period.

          Apart from the politics, I fear we have an increasingly prejudicial
          view (maybe rightly so) of their religious nuts and ours. What I
          worry is that this will become an anti-Arab or anti-African bias, as
          well.

          I have no idea how we get past the issues that drive wars in those
          regions. Today I read that some groups in Nigeria are back to
          cannibalism under the notion that eating an enemy makes you harder to
          kill. That makes it really hard for me to think charity will help
          without a lot of education!

          Hard to be open minded anymore.

          - C. S. Wyatt
          I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
          that I shall be.
          http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
          http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
        • Albert Dolley
          The South African education department asks the question, can someone understand something they cannot put into words ? And they believe that you cannot and
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 12, 2007
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            The South African education department asks the question, can someone understand something they cannot put into words ? And they believe that you cannot and have therefore embarked on a campaign of educating people in their mother tongue as apposed to educating them in English.

            Personally I think that nothing ever changes and that charity only makes both rich an poor more poor.

            Albert.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Exist List Moderator
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 2:08 AM
            Subject: Re: Money, that's what they want... Re: [existlist] other puttings


            On Jan 12, 2007, at 7:24, eupraxis@... wrote:

            > We have to get out, ASAP. Period.

            Apart from the politics, I fear we have an increasingly prejudicial
            view (maybe rightly so) of their religious nuts and ours. What I
            worry is that this will become an anti-Arab or anti-African bias, as
            well.

            I have no idea how we get past the issues that drive wars in those
            regions. Today I read that some groups in Nigeria are back to
            cannibalism under the notion that eating an enemy makes you harder to
            kill. That makes it really hard for me to think charity will help
            without a lot of education!

            Hard to be open minded anymore.

            - C. S. Wyatt
            I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
            that I shall be.
            http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
            http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer






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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • bhvwd
            ... someone understand something they cannot put into words ? And they believe that you cannot and have therefore embarked on a campaign of educating people in
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 13, 2007
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Dolley" <al_d@...> wrote:
              >
              > The South African education department asks the question, can
              someone understand something they cannot put into words ? And they
              believe that you cannot and have therefore embarked on a campaign of
              educating people in their mother tongue as apposed to educating them
              in English.
              >
              > Personally I think that nothing ever changes and that charity only
              makes both rich an poor more poor.
              >
              > Albert.
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Exist List Moderator
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 2:08 AM
              > Subject: Re: Money, that's what they want... Re: [existlist]
              other puttings
              >
              >
              > On Jan 12, 2007, at 7:24, eupraxis@... wrote:
              >
              > > We have to get out, ASAP. Period.
              >
              > Apart from the politics, I fear we have an increasingly
              prejudicial
              > view (maybe rightly so) of their religious nuts and ours. What I
              > worry is that this will become an anti-Arab or anti-African bias,
              as
              > well.
              >
              > I have no idea how we get past the issues that drive wars in
              those
              > regions. Today I read that some groups in Nigeria are back to
              > cannibalism under the notion that eating an enemy makes you
              harder to
              > kill. That makes it really hard for me to think charity will help
              > without a lot of education!
              >
              > Hard to be open minded anymore.
              >
              > - C. S. Wyatt
              > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
              all
              > that I shall be.
              > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
              > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
              >
              > Al. I do not remember if I am to reply to you or if you are on my
              or some assumed no write list. I happen to agree with you that
              charities are crap. That they may be an extension of the god bullshit
              seems probable and I thank you for your noting. The give me
              something for nothing crowd relies on their trustworthyness as good
              stewards . I don`t trust those blaggards nor what they ostensively do
              with the money. All of it is just cutting a false niche for
              personal gain. They need a good punch in the mouth and a little blood
              on those clerical collars. Bill
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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              >
              >
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date:
              2007/01/11 03:33 PM
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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