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Money, that's what they want... Re: [existlist] other puttings

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  • Mary
    And if you go back 40 years, the ratios would probably be even more extreme. Last evening, I was thinking about a book by David Maraniss, They Marched Into
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 11, 2007
      And if you go back 40 years, the ratios would probably be even more
      extreme. Last evening, I was thinking about a book by David
      Maraniss, "They Marched Into Sunlight" and thought what a wonderful
      film it could be, then discovered this morning that it's being made
      into a film due for release next year. The possibility occurred to me
      after watching "The Big Red One." I'm in the middle of my own little
      film festival of war movies, and the next one up is "Thin Red Line" and
      then "Apocalypse Now," only because I've never seen these three before.
      As I ponder even more recent comparisons between the Iraq and Vietnam
      wars, I wonder if the ratio of philosophical:pragmatist students is
      about to change again.

      Mary

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator <existlist1@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > "All the rage" now is more "pragmatic" -- students just want the
      > diploma and some basic job skills. This goes back to the comparisons
      > of 30 years or more -- the flip from 80:20 seeing education as a
      > route to personal improvement to the same ratio now seeing education
      > in purely economic terms.
    • Exist List Moderator
      ... Very different wars, different times. Before, we demanded withdrawal thinking it would bring peace. Now, we don t care if it brings a much wider, more
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 11, 2007
        On Jan 11, 2007, at 9:00, Mary wrote:

        > As I ponder even more recent comparisons between the Iraq and Vietnam
        > wars, I wonder if the ratio of philosophical:pragmatist students is
        > about to change again.

        Very different wars, different times.

        Before, we demanded withdrawal thinking it would bring peace. Now, we
        don't care if it brings a much wider, more deadly war. We are inured
        to religious violence, be it in Somalia, Nigeria, Bosnia, or Iraq.

        We're giving up on the Middle East, North Africa, and new problems in
        the Balkans. I read an article about honor killings in Bosnia. A NATO
        patrol officer said, "It's how they are" when asked about Bosnian
        Muslims killing women raped by Serbs. The Serbs rape the women,
        knowing it is an effective weapon -- the women will be killed by
        their own families. NATO does nothing, as usual.

        We don't care anymore. Is that better than Vietnam? I don't think so.

        Vietnam did not take on such an aura. People are more confused now.
        Is this a war against Islamic radicals? You cannot have a war "on
        terror" -- terror is a tactic, not a group of people.

        No, the backdrop of Vietnam was not like this.

        Do a Google search on Minneapolis or Minnesota and Muslim. We've had
        problems at the airport, on campus, and in a particular neighborhood.
        I could list at least six major events in the last two months leading
        to confrontations here. (That's how we ended up with a Republican "I
        love God" governor elected by the suburbs and a Democrat "I'll use
        the Qu'ran" congressman from the city.)

        I had students complain about being accosted for not dressing more
        modestly. (This is Minnesota -- you are always modest to keep
        warm!!!) These students started to develop very strong biases
        (prejudices?) against the groups wandering campus telling everyone
        how to behave.

        I had a student sum it the local attitude: "I don't care if we went
        there to help Shiites or Sunnis or whatever. Let them kill each
        other." That's a very, very sad commentary on what is happening.
        People now assume it is the natural state of things for two religious
        sects to kills each other forever.

        Sure, we want to leave Iraq. But is this because of a military
        failure, or is this because we think "those people" will just kill
        each other off and it won't be our problem anymore?

        That's not Vietnam. One took nearly 60,000 American lives and
        increased our tolerance while the other is taking 3,000 lives and
        decreasing our tolerance.

        - C. S. Wyatt
        I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
        that I shall be.
        http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
        http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        We have to get out, ASAP. Period. Wil ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 12, 2007
          We have to get out, ASAP. Period.

          Wil


          In a message dated 1/11/07 8:43:28 PM, existlist1@... writes:


          > On Jan 11, 2007, at 9:00, Mary wrote:
          >
          > > As I ponder even more recent comparisons between the Iraq and Vietnam
          > > wars, I wonder if the ratio of philosophical: wars, I wonder if the
          > > about to change again.
          >
          > Very different wars, different times.
          >
          > Before, we demanded withdrawal thinking it would bring peace. Now, we
          > don't care if it brings a much wider, more deadly war. We are inured
          > to religious violence, be it in Somalia, Nigeria, Bosnia, or Iraq.
          >
          > We're giving up on the Middle East, North Africa, and new problems in
          > the Balkans. I read an article about honor killings in Bosnia. A NATO
          > patrol officer said, "It's how they are" when asked about Bosnian
          > Muslims killing women raped by Serbs. The Serbs rape the women,
          > knowing it is an effective weapon -- the women will be killed by
          > their own families. NATO does nothing, as usual.
          >
          > We don't care anymore. Is that better than Vietnam? I don't think so.
          >
          > Vietnam did not take on such an aura. People are more confused now.
          > Is this a war against Islamic radicals? You cannot have a war "on
          > terror" -- terror is a tactic, not a group of people.
          >
          > No, the backdrop of Vietnam was not like this.
          >
          > Do a Google search on Minneapolis or Minnesota and Muslim. We've had
          > problems at the airport, on campus, and in a particular neighborhood.
          > I could list at least six major events in the last two months leading
          > to confrontations here. (That's how we ended up with a Republican "I
          > love God" governor elected by the suburbs and a Democrat "I'll use
          > the Qu'ran" congressman from the city.)
          >
          > I had students complain about being accosted for not dressing more
          > modestly. (This is Minnesota -- you are always modest to keep
          > warm!!!) These students started to develop very strong biases
          > (prejudices? (prejudices?<wbr>) against the groups wandering campus
          > how to behave.
          >
          > I had a student sum it the local attitude: "I don't care if we went
          > there to help Shiites or Sunnis or whatever. Let them kill each
          > other." That's a very, very sad commentary on what is happening.
          > People now assume it is the natural state of things for two religious
          > sects to kills each other forever.
          >
          > Sure, we want to leave Iraq. But is this because of a military
          > failure, or is this because we think "those people" will just kill
          > each other off and it won't be our problem anymore?
          >
          > That's not Vietnam. One took nearly 60,000 American lives and
          > increased our tolerance while the other is taking 3,000 lives and
          > decreasing our tolerance.
          >
          > - C. S. Wyatt
          > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
          > that I shall be.
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Exist List Moderator
          ... Apart from the politics, I fear we have an increasingly prejudicial view (maybe rightly so) of their religious nuts and ours. What I worry is that this
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 12, 2007
            On Jan 12, 2007, at 7:24, eupraxis@... wrote:

            > We have to get out, ASAP. Period.

            Apart from the politics, I fear we have an increasingly prejudicial
            view (maybe rightly so) of their religious nuts and ours. What I
            worry is that this will become an anti-Arab or anti-African bias, as
            well.

            I have no idea how we get past the issues that drive wars in those
            regions. Today I read that some groups in Nigeria are back to
            cannibalism under the notion that eating an enemy makes you harder to
            kill. That makes it really hard for me to think charity will help
            without a lot of education!

            Hard to be open minded anymore.

            - C. S. Wyatt
            I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
            that I shall be.
            http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
            http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
          • Albert Dolley
            The South African education department asks the question, can someone understand something they cannot put into words ? And they believe that you cannot and
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 12, 2007
              The South African education department asks the question, can someone understand something they cannot put into words ? And they believe that you cannot and have therefore embarked on a campaign of educating people in their mother tongue as apposed to educating them in English.

              Personally I think that nothing ever changes and that charity only makes both rich an poor more poor.

              Albert.


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Exist List Moderator
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 2:08 AM
              Subject: Re: Money, that's what they want... Re: [existlist] other puttings


              On Jan 12, 2007, at 7:24, eupraxis@... wrote:

              > We have to get out, ASAP. Period.

              Apart from the politics, I fear we have an increasingly prejudicial
              view (maybe rightly so) of their religious nuts and ours. What I
              worry is that this will become an anti-Arab or anti-African bias, as
              well.

              I have no idea how we get past the issues that drive wars in those
              regions. Today I read that some groups in Nigeria are back to
              cannibalism under the notion that eating an enemy makes you harder to
              kill. That makes it really hard for me to think charity will help
              without a lot of education!

              Hard to be open minded anymore.

              - C. S. Wyatt
              I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
              that I shall be.
              http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
              http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer






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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • bhvwd
              ... someone understand something they cannot put into words ? And they believe that you cannot and have therefore embarked on a campaign of educating people in
              Message 6 of 25 , Jan 13, 2007
                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Dolley" <al_d@...> wrote:
                >
                > The South African education department asks the question, can
                someone understand something they cannot put into words ? And they
                believe that you cannot and have therefore embarked on a campaign of
                educating people in their mother tongue as apposed to educating them
                in English.
                >
                > Personally I think that nothing ever changes and that charity only
                makes both rich an poor more poor.
                >
                > Albert.
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Exist List Moderator
                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 2:08 AM
                > Subject: Re: Money, that's what they want... Re: [existlist]
                other puttings
                >
                >
                > On Jan 12, 2007, at 7:24, eupraxis@... wrote:
                >
                > > We have to get out, ASAP. Period.
                >
                > Apart from the politics, I fear we have an increasingly
                prejudicial
                > view (maybe rightly so) of their religious nuts and ours. What I
                > worry is that this will become an anti-Arab or anti-African bias,
                as
                > well.
                >
                > I have no idea how we get past the issues that drive wars in
                those
                > regions. Today I read that some groups in Nigeria are back to
                > cannibalism under the notion that eating an enemy makes you
                harder to
                > kill. That makes it really hard for me to think charity will help
                > without a lot of education!
                >
                > Hard to be open minded anymore.
                >
                > - C. S. Wyatt
                > I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not
                all
                > that I shall be.
                > http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
                >
                > Al. I do not remember if I am to reply to you or if you are on my
                or some assumed no write list. I happen to agree with you that
                charities are crap. That they may be an extension of the god bullshit
                seems probable and I thank you for your noting. The give me
                something for nothing crowd relies on their trustworthyness as good
                stewards . I don`t trust those blaggards nor what they ostensively do
                with the money. All of it is just cutting a false niche for
                personal gain. They need a good punch in the mouth and a little blood
                on those clerical collars. Bill
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----------
                >
                >
                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date:
                2007/01/11 03:33 PM
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
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