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The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -

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  • TOR Hershman
    The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube - View part one at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzY2bVsZK5s and the conclusion at this
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 1, 2007
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      The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -
      View part one at this
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzY2bVsZK5s
      and the conclusion at this
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sckuqPulRGk

      YouTube's most SHOCKINGINGLY ASTONUNDING video of this or any year, or
      not.
    • jadumontelle
      To view this video, which does not allow commentary on the www.youtube.com site, is certainly a shocking, but excuse me, lying video about Christ...it has no
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 2, 2007
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        To view this video, which does not allow commentary on the
        www.youtube.com site, is certainly a shocking, but excuse me, lying
        video about Christ...it has no basis in realilty, nor
        historically...there were Judaic historians who wrote about Christ...to
        say that Christ was only a figment of imagination written by a Roman
        historian, without mentioning the actual name of the scroll is a pretty
        lame excuse for a video; if this is true, which the secular world would
        like us to believe, is not only an affront to Christ and his church but
        also an attack on humankind, the race created in the image and likeness
        of God...if you think this is a religious bigot talking, perhaps...what
        I'd like to know who or what created this video and what their
        atheistic idea is...oh yeah, I forgot this site is about
        existentialism...sorry...but truly this video is nihilistic and
        irresponsible...one cannot even write a comment about it on that video
        site...pretty lame...yeah, make the video and don't get caught in the
        controversy.
        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "TOR Hershman" <tor_h_tor_h@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -
        > View part one at this
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzY2bVsZK5s
        > and the conclusion at this
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sckuqPulRGk
        >
        > YouTube's most SHOCKINGINGLY ASTONUNDING video of this or any year,
        or
        > not.
        >
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        While I agree that more source info would have been nice, the affront to Christ bit is laughable. The Jesus story is just that, a story -- so, whether Ovid
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 2, 2007
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          While I agree that more source info would have been nice, the "affront to Christ" bit is laughable. The Jesus story is just that, a story -- so, whether Ovid or whomever, the result is the same. Your religious outrage is a bad fit here, I think.

          Wil

          -----Original Message-----
          From: jadumontelle@...
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:32 PM
          Subject: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -

          To view this video, which does not allow commentary on the
          www.youtube.com site, is certainly a shocking, but excuse me, lying
          video about Christ...it has no basis in realilty, nor
          historically...there were Judaic historians who wrote about Christ...to
          say that Christ was only a figment of imagination written by a Roman
          historian, without mentioning the actual name of the scroll is a pretty
          lame excuse for a video; if this is true, which the secular world would
          like us to believe, is not only an affront to Christ and his church but
          also an attack on humankind, the race created in the image and likeness
          of God...if you think this is a religious bigot talking, perhaps...what
          I'd like to know who or what created this video and what their
          atheistic idea is...oh yeah, I forgot this site is about
          existentialism...sorry...but truly this video is nihilistic and
          irresponsible...one cannot even write a comment about it on that video
          site...pretty lame...yeah, make the video and don't get caught in the
          controversy.
          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "TOR Hershman" <tor_h_tor_h@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -
          > View part one at this
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzY2bVsZK5s
          > and the conclusion at this
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sckuqPulRGk
          >
          > YouTube's most SHOCKINGINGLY ASTONUNDING video of this or any year,
          or
          > not.
          >


          ________________________________________________________________________
          Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jeff Cunningham
          I have to agree with you Ja Mon. God is my favorite imaginary friend . For someone to make a video about his side kick JC is just wacky. I wouldnt get to upset
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 2, 2007
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            I have to agree with you Ja Mon. God is my favorite
            imaginary friend . For someone to make a video about
            his side kick JC is just wacky. I wouldnt get to upset
            though for Im sure he will turn to salt or be
            swallowed by a whale or something like that in short
            order. JC2
            --- jadumontelle <jadumontelle@...> wrote:

            > To view this video, which does not allow commentary
            > on the
            > www.youtube.com site, is certainly a shocking, but
            > excuse me, lying
            > video about Christ...it has no basis in realilty,
            > nor
            > historically...there were Judaic historians who
            > wrote about Christ...to
            > say that Christ was only a figment of imagination
            > written by a Roman
            > historian, without mentioning the actual name of the
            > scroll is a pretty
            > lame excuse for a video; if this is true, which the
            > secular world would
            > like us to believe, is not only an affront to Christ
            > and his church but
            > also an attack on humankind, the race created in the
            > image and likeness
            > of God...if you think this is a religious bigot
            > talking, perhaps...what
            > I'd like to know who or what created this video and
            > what their
            > atheistic idea is...oh yeah, I forgot this site is
            > about
            > existentialism...sorry...but truly this video is
            > nihilistic and
            > irresponsible...one cannot even write a comment
            > about it on that video
            > site...pretty lame...yeah, make the video and don't
            > get caught in the
            > controversy.
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "TOR Hershman"
            > <tor_h_tor_h@...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -
            > > View part one at this
            > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzY2bVsZK5s
            > > and the conclusion at this
            > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sckuqPulRGk
            > >
            > > YouTube's most SHOCKINGINGLY ASTONUNDING video of
            > this or any year,
            > or
            > > not.
            > >
            >
            >
            >


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          • Joe Dumontelle
            Jeff: Yeah, the modern lingo whether it be from a secular sense, that you may think that Jesus was an imaginary friend misses the mark...Jesus is the most
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 3, 2007
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              Jeff:
              Yeah, the modern lingo whether it be from a secular sense, that you may think that Jesus was an imaginary friend misses the mark...Jesus is the most controversial person of history; those who encountered him in what you call the story (the 4 Gospels in Catholic understanding) may have some believe, and belief is something very personal, that Jesus was a myth or a man very mad, claiming to be God, Messiah or just one who men can believe in because of his miracles. To encounter Christ in a personal way, never leaves one the same...Christ is always accepted based upon faith or rejected based on what I call belief. Whether you believe in him or don't believe is a freedom even Christ had to accept, but Christ is someone real to me. Time magazine in the 60s called God dead, but the Christ of faith rose from the dead. How do we know...the 4 gospels testify to this fact. The evidence is there. The Shroud of Turin testifies that a man died and left an imprint on it, much before the
              modern invention of photography. I admit that many Christians fail to do what Christ demanded, of loving God and loving neighbour. That's a failure of his followers and not of the message of Christ.
              Perhaps I've rambled a bit far...but Christ is controversial. One either accepts or rejects him...that's the freedom of men...even Christ would not force his kingdom on men...he cannot and will not, but many will unfortunately pay for rejecting Christ and believing that they will live happily in this world, but may pay mightily for it in the next. That's chilling but that is a faith perspective. I believe there's a heaven and hell and what we do with our choices everyday will ultimately lead us to one or the other. However, and this is chilling, the majority of people go to hell. That's something I don't like thinking about, nor do I believe its a great end to life. No one wants to go there, but end up there for one reason or another. I've ranted far too much, bored some and insensed others. To encounter Christ is something life changing or life threatening. It's one or the other. Any takers??

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Jeff Cunningham <cactusrockranch@...>
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2007 2:28:11 PM
              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -













              I have to agree with you Ja Mon. God is my favorite

              imaginary friend . For someone to make a video about

              his side kick JC is just wacky. I wouldnt get to upset

              though for Im sure he will turn to salt or be

              swallowed by a whale or something like that in short

              order. JC2

              --- jadumontelle <jadumontelle@ yahoo.ca> wrote:



              > To view this video, which does not allow commentary

              > on the

              > www.youtube. com site, is certainly a shocking, but

              > excuse me, lying

              > video about Christ...it has no basis in realilty,

              > nor

              > historically. ..there were Judaic historians who

              > wrote about Christ...to

              > say that Christ was only a figment of imagination

              > written by a Roman

              > historian, without mentioning the actual name of the

              > scroll is a pretty

              > lame excuse for a video; if this is true, which the

              > secular world would

              > like us to believe, is not only an affront to Christ

              > and his church but

              > also an attack on humankind, the race created in the

              > image and likeness

              > of God...if you think this is a religious bigot

              > talking, perhaps...what

              > I'd like to know who or what created this video and

              > what their

              > atheistic idea is...oh yeah, I forgot this site is

              > about

              > existentialism. ..sorry.. .but truly this video is

              > nihilistic and

              > irresponsible. ..one cannot even write a comment

              > about it on that video

              > site...pretty lame...yeah, make the video and don't

              > get caught in the

              > controversy.

              > --- In existlist@yahoogrou ps.com, "TOR Hershman"

              > <tor_h_tor_h@ ...>

              > wrote:

              > >

              > > The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -

              > > View part one at this

              > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=ZzY2bVsZK5s

              > > and the conclusion at this

              > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=sckuqPulRGk

              > >

              > > YouTube's most SHOCKINGINGLY ASTONUNDING video of

              > this or any year,

              > or

              > > not.

              > >

              >

              >

              >



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            • Joe Dumontelle
              Ah, the affront to Christ is difficult to understand to those who are not Christian, and in today s age outmoded??? Or so it seems. By appearances we laugh at
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 3, 2007
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                Ah, the affront to Christ is difficult to understand to those who are not Christian, and in today's age outmoded??? Or so it seems. By appearances we laugh at religious outrage, yet it remains an extreme reaction...Who is Christ for me?? He's more than a great teacher, or man with wisdom, or a tortured man at his crucifixion. Christians believe that he's the Messiah, that he ought to be worshipped because he's God. He claimed to be the Messiah. The Jews rejected this claim, yet now there's even Messianic Jews. Men now await a great man of History, some call him the 2nd Messiah. But the Messiah already came. He either lifts one's spirits or destroys anything and everything in one's life, and then hopefully you pick up the pieces. I had great trauma when I was young...I'm not looking for sympathy, what I'm saying is that suffering can be lived with, but only with faith. Now I'm not saying we ought to go out and torture ourselves, use self-injury or commit suicide, by no
                means...suffering and suffering that we experience can give us life or death...if we think suffering is our enemy we somehow missed the whole boat, and that whole boat is, of what I understand, misunderstood. Many people live in anticipation of Antichrist...some claim he's already here ready to come on the world stage. I reject this. The world was created good, but Adam and Eve were disobedient and they eventually died. One writer said that the fall of Adam and Eve was the banana skin joke taken to cosmic proportions. "They literally slipped on a banana peel," like a slapstick comedian would do in 20th century U.S. movie. The tragic comedy of life marches on. There is suffering, most reject any pain, while we all joke about our problems at times Christ came to save those who were lost. He did not come into the world to condemn the world but to save it. Save it from what? From doing wrong, traditionally called sin. The ten commandments didn't change, nor should
                they...enough of this already


                ----- Original Message ----
                From: "eupraxis@..." <eupraxis@...>
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:57:39 PM
                Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -













                While I agree that more source info would have been nice, the "affront to Christ" bit is laughable. The Jesus story is just that, a story -- so, whether Ovid or whomever, the result is the same. Your religious outrage is a bad fit here, I think.



                Wil



                -----Original Message-----

                From: jadumontelle@ yahoo.ca

                To: existlist@yahoogrou ps.com

                Sent: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:32 PM

                Subject: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -



                To view this video, which does not allow commentary on the

                www.youtube. com site, is certainly a shocking, but excuse me, lying

                video about Christ...it has no basis in realilty, nor

                historically. ..there were Judaic historians who wrote about Christ...to

                say that Christ was only a figment of imagination written by a Roman

                historian, without mentioning the actual name of the scroll is a pretty

                lame excuse for a video; if this is true, which the secular world would

                like us to believe, is not only an affront to Christ and his church but

                also an attack on humankind, the race created in the image and likeness

                of God...if you think this is a religious bigot talking, perhaps...what

                I'd like to know who or what created this video and what their

                atheistic idea is...oh yeah, I forgot this site is about

                existentialism. ..sorry.. .but truly this video is nihilistic and

                irresponsible. ..one cannot even write a comment about it on that video

                site...pretty lame...yeah, make the video and don't get caught in the

                controversy.

                --- In existlist@yahoogrou ps.com, "TOR Hershman" <tor_h_tor_h@ ...>

                wrote:

                >

                > The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -

                > View part one at this

                > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=ZzY2bVsZK5s

                > and the conclusion at this

                > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=sckuqPulRGk

                >

                > YouTube's most SHOCKINGINGLY ASTONUNDING video of this or any year,

                or

                > not.

                >





                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

                Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.



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              • eupraxis@aol.com
                Oh, I understand. I just do not care, and I believe that proselytizing is against group rules. Wil ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 3, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Oh, I understand. I just do not care, and I believe that proselytizing is
                  against group rules.

                  Wil

                  In a message dated 1/3/07 2:37:38 AM, jadumontelle@... writes:


                  >
                  > Ah, the affront to Christ is difficult to understand to those who are not
                  > Christian, and in today's age outmoded??? Or so it seems. By appearances we
                  > laugh at religious outrage, yet it remains an extreme reaction...Who is Christ
                  > for me?? He's more than a great teacher, or man with wisdom, or a tortured man
                  > at his crucifixion. Christians believe that he's the Messiah, that he ought
                  > to be worshipped because he's God. He claimed to be the Messiah. The Jews
                  > rejected this claim, yet now there's even Messianic Jews. Men now await a great
                  > man of History, some call him the 2nd Messiah. But the Messiah already came.
                  > He either lifts one's spirits or destroys anything and everything in one's
                  > life, and then hopefully you pick up the pieces. I had great trauma when I was
                  > young...I'm not looking for sympathy, what I'm saying is that suffering can
                  > be lived with, but only with faith. Now I'm not saying we ought to go out and
                  > torture ourselves, use self-injury or commit suicide, by no
                  > means...suffering and suffering that we experience can give us life or
                  > death...if we think suffering is our enemy we somehow missed the whole boat, and
                  > that whole boat is, of what I understand, misunderstood. Many people live in
                  > anticipation of Antichrist.. means...suffering and suffering that we
                  > experience can give us life or death...if we think suffering is our enemy we somehow
                  > missed the whole boat, and that whole boat is, of what I understand,
                  > misunderstood. Many people live in anticipation of Antichrist..<wbr>.some claim he's
                  > already here ready to come on the world stage. I reject this. The world was
                  > created good, but Adam and Eve were disobedient and they eventually died. One
                  > writer said that the fall of Adam and Eve was the banana skin joke taken to
                  > cosmic proportions. "They literally slipped on a banana peel," like a slapstick
                  > comedian would do in 20th century U.S. movie. The tragic comedy of life
                  > marches on. There is suffering, most reject any pain,
                  > they...enough of this already
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jeff Cunningham
                  Joe, Look around the world today and tell me what would Jesus do. .We are currently living in a very bloody period of history and no one comments on that.
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 3, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Joe,
                    Look around the world today and tell me what would
                    Jesus do. .We are currently living in a very bloody
                    period of history and no one comments on that. Mans
                    blood lust for his religion is destroying him on a
                    daliy basis. Surely there is more for you to do than
                    just get upset at another persons veiw on history.My
                    father taught me when I encountered someone that wore
                    his religion on his shirt sleeve to shake his hand
                    with my right hand and put my left hand on my wallet.
                    This has turned out to be one of his best lessons.
                    Tell me what you do for your fellow man on a daily
                    basis. Do you feed the hungry, clothe the poor,
                    shelter the weak , or do you prefer simply to profess
                    piety ?
                    Religion of any kind with out good works is simply the
                    a fairy tale made to make you feel better about
                    yourself. How do you feel about the 650,000 men,
                    women,children that have been killed in Iraq ? What do
                    you do to feed the hungry and homeless in the
                    community in which you live. My thoughts are that
                    heaven and hell are here on the earth that we live in.
                    Surely there is a more important mission out there for
                    you than attacking a cartoon. Think about it, Jeff
                    --- Joe Dumontelle <jadumontelle@...> wrote:

                    > Jeff:
                    > Yeah, the modern lingo whether it be from a secular
                    > sense, that you may think that Jesus was an
                    > imaginary friend misses the mark...Jesus is the most
                    > controversial person of history; those who
                    > encountered him in what you call the story (the 4
                    > Gospels in Catholic understanding) may have some
                    > believe, and belief is something very personal, that
                    > Jesus was a myth or a man very mad, claiming to be
                    > God, Messiah or just one who men can believe in
                    > because of his miracles. To encounter Christ in a
                    > personal way, never leaves one the same...Christ is
                    > always accepted based upon faith or rejected based
                    > on what I call belief. Whether you believe in him or
                    > don't believe is a freedom even Christ had to
                    > accept, but Christ is someone real to me. Time
                    > magazine in the 60s called God dead, but the Christ
                    > of faith rose from the dead. How do we know...the 4
                    > gospels testify to this fact. The evidence is there.
                    > The Shroud of Turin testifies that a man died and
                    > left an imprint on it, much before the
                    > modern invention of photography. I admit that many
                    > Christians fail to do what Christ demanded, of
                    > loving God and loving neighbour. That's a failure of
                    > his followers and not of the message of Christ.
                    > Perhaps I've rambled a bit far...but Christ is
                    > controversial. One either accepts or rejects
                    > him...that's the freedom of men...even Christ would
                    > not force his kingdom on men...he cannot and will
                    > not, but many will unfortunately pay for rejecting
                    > Christ and believing that they will live happily in
                    > this world, but may pay mightily for it in the next.
                    > That's chilling but that is a faith perspective. I
                    > believe there's a heaven and hell and what we do
                    > with our choices everyday will ultimately lead us to
                    > one or the other. However, and this is chilling, the
                    > majority of people go to hell. That's something I
                    > don't like thinking about, nor do I believe its a
                    > great end to life. No one wants to go there, but end
                    > up there for one reason or another. I've ranted far
                    > too much, bored some and insensed others. To
                    > encounter Christ is something life changing or life
                    > threatening. It's one or the other. Any takers??
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message ----
                    > From: Jeff Cunningham <cactusrockranch@...>
                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2007 2:28:11 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus
                    > Christ - @ YouTube -
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I have to agree with you Ja Mon. God is
                    > my favorite
                    >
                    > imaginary friend . For someone to make a video about
                    >
                    > his side kick JC is just wacky. I wouldnt get to
                    > upset
                    >
                    > though for Im sure he will turn to salt or be
                    >
                    > swallowed by a whale or something like that in short
                    >
                    > order. JC2
                    >
                    > --- jadumontelle <jadumontelle@ yahoo.ca> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > To view this video, which does not allow
                    > commentary
                    >
                    > > on the
                    >
                    > > www.youtube. com site, is certainly a shocking,
                    > but
                    >
                    > > excuse me, lying
                    >
                    > > video about Christ...it has no basis in realilty,
                    >
                    > > nor
                    >
                    > > historically. ..there were Judaic historians who
                    >
                    > > wrote about Christ...to
                    >
                    > > say that Christ was only a figment of imagination
                    >
                    > > written by a Roman
                    >
                    > > historian, without mentioning the actual name of
                    > the
                    >
                    > > scroll is a pretty
                    >
                    > > lame excuse for a video; if this is true, which
                    > the
                    >
                    > > secular world would
                    >
                    > > like us to believe, is not only an affront to
                    > Christ
                    >
                    > > and his church but
                    >
                    > > also an attack on humankind, the race created in
                    > the
                    >
                    > > image and likeness
                    >
                    > > of God...if you think this is a religious bigot
                    >
                    > > talking, perhaps...what
                    >
                    > > I'd like to know who or what created this video
                    > and
                    >
                    > > what their
                    >
                    > > atheistic idea is...oh yeah, I forgot this site is
                    >
                    > > about
                    >
                    > > existentialism. ..sorry.. .but truly this video is
                    >
                    > > nihilistic and
                    >
                    > > irresponsible. ..one cannot even write a comment
                    >
                    > > about it on that video
                    >
                    > > site...pretty lame...yeah, make the video and
                    > don't
                    >
                    > > get caught in the
                    >
                    > > controversy.
                    >
                    > > --- In existlist@yahoogrou ps.com, "TOR Hershman"
                    >
                    > > <tor_h_tor_h@ ...>
                    >
                    > > wrote:
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -
                    >
                    > > > View part one at this
                    >
                    > > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=ZzY2bVsZK5s
                    >
                    > > > and the conclusion at this
                    >
                    > > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=sckuqPulRGk
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > YouTube's most SHOCKINGINGLY ASTONUNDING video
                    > of
                    >
                    > > this or any year,
                    >
                    > > or
                    >
                    > > > not.
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
                    > __
                    >
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    >
                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                    > protection around
                    >
                    > http://mail. yahoo.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    === message truncated ===


                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    http://mail.yahoo.com
                  • Bobconkawi@aol.com
                    CONVICTIONS ARE GREATER ENEMIES OF TRUTH THAN LIIES At the root of all war and human enmity is the reliance on belief instead of seeking wisdom with
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 3, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      "CONVICTIONS ARE GREATER ENEMIES OF TRUTH THAN LIIES" At the root of all
                      war and human enmity is the reliance on belief instead of seeking wisdom with
                      evidence and thought. If I believe I am right and you are wrong, then you must
                      be evil and worthy of death. Draw a Venn diagram with you and good in one
                      circle. What lies outside your circle? Don't you see, once you have decided
                      there is "the other", you have thought your way into the belief that you get
                      to kill them because they lie with evil?


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Joe Dumontelle
                      Jeff: You re very smart Jeff. You asked me the $64 million dollar question. Yeah you re right that many Christians profess Christ but do not feed the hungry,
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 3, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Jeff:
                        You're very smart Jeff. You asked me the $64 million dollar question. Yeah you're right that many Christians profess Christ but do not feed the hungry, clothe the naked and support the weak. Its one thing to profess Christ, quite another to help and love one's fellowman. I work at a call centre for the mentally ill at a mental health office. Its one thing to love the image and likeness of the creator in human beings, but yet another to compain about the world, and do nothing for it. Its a lot easier to curse the darkness, and not light a candle to dispel the darkness. I for my part, and I'm not boasting, but in my life there has been alot of suffering. I'm not looking for sympathy. What I can say is that suffering can make or break the man. We don't like suffering as human beings. Suffering hurts. The greatest trouble with suffering in today's world is fear of suffering. This can isolate, make us lonely and destroy our peace of mind. Christ suffered. He's the ideal. Every
                        Christian ought to pick up his cross and follow Christ. This is the great sign of God's love for a world badly needing love. Its really easy to argue with man's fellow man. Sometimes I joke with people about the world. People do want to be entertained. I have to joke about my own suffering but I haven't despaired about it. I was
                        traumatized when very young. I almost died.
                        BESIDES, you say that we have lived in one of the most bloodiest times of history. This is true. Look at the genocide in a country of Africa. Millions died. But that wasn't a religious genocide. Among those Christians who abandoned that country to come to Canada, they said that it was Freemasons who murdered these people. In communist countries like the Soviet Union, many Christians have died for their faith, because of atheism. No religious war here. More of a good vs. evil situation here.
                        I sponsor a child in India. That country has the poorest of the poor. She's getting an education. It doesn't cost much.
                        Christians who profess one thing, giving lip-service to Christ and turn their backs on their fellow men and women are hypocrites. I admit it. Suffering in my life has taught me that men


                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Jeff Cunningham <cactusrockranch@...>
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 12:07:50 PM
                        Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -

                        Joe,
                        Look around the world today and tell me what would
                        Jesus do. .We are currently living in a very bloody
                        period of history and no one comments on that. Mans
                        blood lust for his religion is destroying him on a
                        daliy basis. Surely there is more for you to do than
                        just get upset at another persons veiw on history.My
                        father taught me when I encountered someone that wore
                        his religion on his shirt sleeve to shake his hand
                        with my right hand and put my left hand on my wallet.
                        This has turned out to be one of his best lessons.
                        Tell me what you do for your fellow man on a daily
                        basis. Do you feed the hungry, clothe the poor,
                        shelter the weak , or do you prefer simply to profess
                        piety ?
                        Religion of any kind with out good works is simply the
                        a fairy tale made to make you feel better about
                        yourself. How do you feel about the 650,000 men,
                        women,children that have been killed in Iraq ? What do
                        you do to feed the hungry and homeless in the
                        community in which you live. My thoughts are that
                        heaven and hell are here on the earth that we live in.
                        Surely there is a more important mission out there for
                        you than attacking a cartoon. Think about it, Jeff
                        --- Joe Dumontelle <jadumontelle@ yahoo.ca> wrote:

                        > Jeff:
                        > Yeah, the modern lingo whether it be from a secular
                        > sense, that you may think that Jesus was an
                        > imaginary friend misses the mark...Jesus is the most
                        > controversial person of history; those who
                        > encountered him in what you call the story (the 4
                        > Gospels in Catholic understanding) may have some
                        > believe, and belief is something very personal, that
                        > Jesus was a myth or a man very mad, claiming to be
                        > God, Messiah or just one who men can believe in
                        > because of his miracles. To encounter Christ in a
                        > personal way, never leaves one the same...Christ is
                        > always accepted based upon faith or rejected based
                        > on what I call belief. Whether you believe in him or
                        > don't believe is a freedom even Christ had to
                        > accept, but Christ is someone real to me. Time
                        > magazine in the 60s called God dead, but the Christ
                        > of faith rose from the dead. How do we know...the 4
                        > gospels testify to this fact. The evidence is there.
                        > The Shroud of Turin testifies that a man died and
                        > left an imprint on it, much before the
                        > modern invention of photography. I admit that many
                        > Christians fail to do what Christ demanded, of
                        > loving God and loving neighbour. That's a failure of
                        > his followers and not of the message of Christ.
                        > Perhaps I've rambled a bit far...but Christ is
                        > controversial. One either accepts or rejects
                        > him...that's the freedom of men...even Christ would
                        > not force his kingdom on men...he cannot and will
                        > not, but many will unfortunately pay for rejecting
                        > Christ and believing that they will live happily in
                        > this world, but may pay mightily for it in the next.
                        > That's chilling but that is a faith perspective. I
                        > believe there's a heaven and hell and what we do
                        > with our choices everyday will ultimately lead us to
                        > one or the other. However, and this is chilling, the
                        > majority of people go to hell. That's something I
                        > don't like thinking about, nor do I believe its a
                        > great end to life. No one wants to go there, but end
                        > up there for one reason or another. I've ranted far
                        > too much, bored some and insensed others. To
                        > encounter Christ is something life changing or life
                        > threatening. It's one or the other. Any takers??
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message ----
                        > From: Jeff Cunningham <cactusrockranch@ yahoo.com>
                        > To: existlist@yahoogrou ps.com
                        > Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2007 2:28:11 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus
                        > Christ - @ YouTube -
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I have to agree with you Ja Mon. God is
                        > my favorite
                        >
                        > imaginary friend . For someone to make a video about
                        >
                        > his side kick JC is just wacky. I wouldnt get to
                        > upset
                        >
                        > though for Im sure he will turn to salt or be
                        >
                        > swallowed by a whale or something like that in short
                        >
                        > order. JC2
                        >
                        > --- jadumontelle <jadumontelle@ yahoo.ca> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > To view this video, which does not allow
                        > commentary
                        >
                        > > on the
                        >
                        > > www.youtube. com site, is certainly a shocking,
                        > but
                        >
                        > > excuse me, lying
                        >
                        > > video about Christ...it has no basis in realilty,
                        >
                        > > nor
                        >
                        > > historically. ..there were Judaic historians who
                        >
                        > > wrote about Christ...to
                        >
                        > > say that Christ was only a figment of imagination
                        >
                        > > written by a Roman
                        >
                        > > historian, without mentioning the actual name of
                        > the
                        >
                        > > scroll is a pretty
                        >
                        > > lame excuse for a video; if this is true, which
                        > the
                        >
                        > > secular world would
                        >
                        > > like us to believe, is not only an affront to
                        > Christ
                        >
                        > > and his church but
                        >
                        > > also an attack on humankind, the race created in
                        > the
                        >
                        > > image and likeness
                        >
                        > > of God...if you think this is a religious bigot
                        >
                        > > talking, perhaps...what
                        >
                        > > I'd like to know who or what created this video
                        > and
                        >
                        > > what their
                        >
                        > > atheistic idea is...oh yeah, I forgot this site is
                        >
                        > > about
                        >
                        > > existentialism. ..sorry.. .but truly this video is
                        >
                        > > nihilistic and
                        >
                        > > irresponsible. ..one cannot even write a comment
                        >
                        > > about it on that video
                        >
                        > > site...pretty lame...yeah, make the video and
                        > don't
                        >
                        > > get caught in the
                        >
                        > > controversy.
                        >
                        > > --- In existlist@yahoogrou ps.com, "TOR Hershman"
                        >
                        > > <tor_h_tor_h@ ...>
                        >
                        > > wrote:
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -
                        >
                        > > > View part one at this
                        >
                        > > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=ZzY2bVsZK5s
                        >
                        > > > and the conclusion at this
                        >
                        > > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=sckuqPulRGk
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > YouTube's most SHOCKINGINGLY ASTONUNDING video
                        > of
                        >
                        > > this or any year,
                        >
                        > > or
                        >
                        > > > not.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
                        > __
                        >
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        >
                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                        > protection around
                        >
                        > http://mail. yahoo.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        === message truncated ===

                        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        http://mail. yahoo.com



                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        http://mail.yahoo.com

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Susan Schnelbach
                        Let s watch the religious content of posts. I m sure there are more than enough Yahoo Groups covering religion that we do not need to turn this into yet
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 3, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Let's watch the religious content of posts. I'm sure there are more
                          than enough Yahoo Groups covering religion that we do not need to
                          turn this into yet another one.

                          If someone could start a new existentialist discussion, we'd
                          appreciate it.

                          - S
                        • Joe Dumontelle
                          Convictions are greater enemies of truth than lies. That sir might be a conviction. I think we live in a world where nihilism is predominant. To have a
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 3, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            "Convictions are greater enemies of truth than lies." That sir might be a conviction. I think we live in a world where nihilism is predominant. To have a conviction is very rare nowadays. I'd rather have a conviction than to succumb to just any whim, trend or passion. You mentioned that if one is right and another person is wrong, the person that is wrong ought to be put to death. There has been a history of wars (right and wrong) and different values--the difference between say secular humanism and Christianity. It isn't that clear cut. There's good and evil in everyone. There's no such person as a completely good person or a compeletly evil person. Each person is a combination of both. Christ always saw the best in people in those who repented from sin. Yeah, he warned men of the perils of hell. That is scary, even to me and I'm a Catholic Christian. To believe in an afterlife and a place where men are tortured forever is a matter of faith. I believe that the good are
                            rewarded and the evil are punished. Sometimes in this world. But mostly in the next. You talk of a Venn diagram. But Christianity is more than just logic, and more than just goodness. It is about loving God (in a culture that claims that God is dead, this is unpopular--most are atheists today(Christ has never been popular), and loving one's fellow man. Christianity, they say, is a dead religion and God is dead. If
                            Christianity is a dead religion, and God is dead, how come Christianity dominated the Western World for centuries and I believe Christ is God and he rose from the dead after his resurrection. One reason why Christianity is and has little power in the West is because there's a huge spiritual war taking place. It
                            seems that the Christian are losing their strength, but I see a world being renewed. The true Christians will prevail, not becaue they have convictions, but because the Christian God made all men. But the light of Christianity is not bright today, because of a denial of secular media in the western world (north america and europe). I've said enough.


                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: "Bobconkawi@..." <Bobconkawi@...>
                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 1:54:50 PM
                            Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -

                            "CONVICTIONS ARE GREATER ENEMIES OF TRUTH THAN LIIES" At the root of all
                            war and human enmity is the reliance on belief instead of seeking wisdom with
                            evidence and thought. If I believe I am right and you are wrong, then you must
                            be evil and worthy of death. Draw a Venn diagram with you and good in one
                            circle. What lies outside your circle? Don't you see, once you have decided
                            there is "the other", you have thought your way into the belief that you get
                            to kill them because they lie with evil?

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            http://mail.yahoo.com

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Joe Dumontelle
                            No, I don t think you don t care. You care enough to talk to me about faith. If you didn t care or were apathetic you wouldn t care to talk. As to group rules
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 3, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              No, I don't think you don't care. You care enough to talk to me about faith. If you didn't care or were apathetic you wouldn't care to talk. As to group rules I may be wrong. However philosophy, any philosophy group may be open dialogue or closed. In democracy there is free speech. Until otherwise...however, I do not convert anyone, God does that. Perhaps I get a little hot under the collar, but if you talk that I am proselytizing and I get kicked off this group, the moderator will have to decide.


                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: "eupraxis@..." <eupraxis@...>
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 8:24:31 AM
                              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ - @ YouTube -

                              Oh, I understand. I just do not care, and I believe that proselytizing is
                              against group rules.

                              Wil

                              In a message dated 1/3/07 2:37:38 AM, jadumontelle@ yahoo.ca writes:

                              >
                              > Ah, the affront to Christ is difficult to understand to those who are not
                              > Christian, and in today's age outmoded??? Or so it seems. By appearances we
                              > laugh at religious outrage, yet it remains an extreme reaction...Who is Christ
                              > for me?? He's more than a great teacher, or man with wisdom, or a tortured man
                              > at his crucifixion. Christians believe that he's the Messiah, that he ought
                              > to be worshipped because he's God. He claimed to be the Messiah. The Jews
                              > rejected this claim, yet now there's even Messianic Jews. Men now await a great
                              > man of History, some call him the 2nd Messiah. But the Messiah already came.
                              > He either lifts one's spirits or destroys anything and everything in one's
                              > life, and then hopefully you pick up the pieces. I had great trauma when I was
                              > young...I'm not looking for sympathy, what I'm saying is that suffering can
                              > be lived with, but only with faith. Now I'm not saying we ought to go out and
                              > torture ourselves, use self-injury or commit suicide, by no
                              > means...suffering and suffering that we experience can give us life or
                              > death...if we think suffering is our enemy we somehow missed the whole boat, and
                              > that whole boat is, of what I understand, misunderstood. Many people live in
                              > anticipation of Antichrist.. means...suffering and suffering that we
                              > experience can give us life or death...if we think suffering is our enemy we somehow
                              > missed the whole boat, and that whole boat is, of what I understand,
                              > misunderstood. Many people live in anticipation of Antichrist.. <wbr>.some claim he's
                              > already here ready to come on the world stage. I reject this. The world was
                              > created good, but Adam and Eve were disobedient and they eventually died. One
                              > writer said that the fall of Adam and Eve was the banana skin joke taken to
                              > cosmic proportions. "They literally slipped on a banana peel," like a slapstick
                              > comedian would do in 20th century U.S. movie. The tragic comedy of life
                              > marches on. There is suffering, most reject any pain,
                              > they...enough of this already
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                              __________________________________________________
                              Do You Yahoo!?
                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Joe Dumontelle
                              You know Susan I see that you may like existentialism but there are Christian existentialists too. Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 3, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                You know Susan I see that you may like existentialism but there are Christian existentialists too.
                                Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of religion as philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life are discussed. But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly secular viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter. Last thing...rules being what they are you are right about this group...however you don't have to read anything pertaining to Christ and religion as I see you see this as a threat...besides...its too bad really, if you want to sic the moderator on me, maybe you're right, but don't just allow videos on the sight that lie about Christ and then ignore what Christians who are informed and what they say about it...if you want to have it out I DON'T you can always punch me through the computer screen...Now I think the moderator will step in, kick me off as it should rightly be, but maybe others want to see what can be said...in today's world people do as they please and they don't care about any type of
                                religion, but philosophy can be a religion.
                                You always have the right to explore, but watch what you screen out, and what you say no to. You don't know, but religion, especially Christianity is more than just knowledge. Amen



                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: Susan Schnelbach <susan@...>
                                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 6:42:45 PM
                                Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ

                                Let's watch the religious content of posts. I'm sure there are more
                                than enough Yahoo Groups covering religion that we do not need to
                                turn this into yet another one.

                                If someone could start a new existentialist discussion, we'd
                                appreciate it.

                                - S



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                              • eupraxis@aol.com
                                Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of religion as philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life are discussed. No, I
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 4, 2007
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                                  "Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of religion as
                                  philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life are discussed."

                                  No, I think that would be your m.o. I find that religion gives false answers
                                  to "the larger questions of life" like, say, questions of origins and ends,
                                  morality and intellectual freedom, ontology and cosmology. Religion has all the
                                  answers to those topics without so much as a second thought, or a first one,
                                  really. It has absolutely no place in a group for free thought.

                                  "Philosophy" (qua philosophy) has its genealogical beginnings in classical
                                  antiquity, whose great minds never saw fit to write their own "bible" or call
                                  themselves gods or sons thereof. No mean feat back in those days. Their
                                  contemporaries to the south were not so perspicacious. The Greeks were calculating the
                                  diameter of the round earth when the flat-earth holy rollers were scaping
                                  goats and stoning the sundry and hapless eaters of escargot.

                                  "But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly secular
                                  viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter."

                                  No, that would be the meat.

                                  "maybe others want to see what can be said..."

                                  My sense is that they do not. No one wants to be saved here, I can assure
                                  you, and in any case no one wants a defender of 'the' faith, or ANY faith, to be
                                  creeping around, looking for an offence to go off about.

                                  "in today's world people do as they please and they don't care about any type
                                  of
                                  religion...",

                                  From your mouth to God's ear. But seriously, what newspapers are you NOT
                                  reading, my boy? Religion has infested most of the world, and with little more to
                                  show for it than internecine wars and pubic antagonisms.

                                  "... but philosophy can be a religion."

                                  Philosophy (and science, Wissenschaft) do take the place of religion insofar
                                  as they manifest a continuation of human rational maturity (Hegel), but they
                                  do not become a religion in the one most important respect that they do claim
                                  to know the absolute truth of all things, and they do not commend defenders of
                                  their enterprise for vanquishing detractors.

                                  "You always have the right to explore, but watch what you screen out, and
                                  what you say no to. You don't know, but religion, especially Christianity is more
                                  than just knowledge. Amen"

                                  I moderate a group on philosophy as well. In that group we do not tolerate
                                  any religious proselytizing at all. In fact, we have all agreed to a particular
                                  quantum of skepticism, if not cynicism, with regard to any and all theological
                                  matters. We claim an exclusivity of topic, and assume that all are on the
                                  same page. We were forced to do this after a blitzkrieg of Johnny-on-the-spot
                                  evangels intruded the list to save our souls and defend the Christ.

                                  This group, however, has seemed to get on well without that hard-line
                                  approach. I hope that you do not force the moderators' hand. But if your 'faith' is
                                  the warp of the woof of a compulsion, which is not a rare thing, I fear the
                                  worst. Amen, brother.

                                  Wil

                                  In a message dated 1/3/07 9:31:23 PM, jadumontelle@... writes:


                                  >
                                  > You know Susan I see that you may like existentialism but there are
                                  > Christian existentialists too.
                                  > Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of religion as
                                  > philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life are discussed.
                                  > But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly secular
                                  > viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter. Last thing...rules being what
                                  > they are you are right about this group...however you don't have to read
                                  > anything pertaining to Christ and religion as I see you see this as a
                                  > threat...besides. Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of religion as
                                  > philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life are
                                  > discussed. But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly secular
                                  > viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter. Last thing...rules
                                  > being what they are you are right about this group...however you don't have to
                                  > read anything pertaining to Christ and religion as I see you see this as a
                                  > threat...besides.<wbr>..its too bad really, if you want to sic
                                  > religion, but philosophy can be a religion.
                                  > You always have the right to explore, but watch what you screen out, and
                                  > what you say no to. You don't know, but religion, especially Christianity is
                                  > more than just knowledge. Amen
                                  >
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • eupraxis@aol.com
                                  ... but philosophy can be a religion. Philosophy (and science, Wissenschaft) do take the place of religion insofar as they manifest a continuation of human
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jan 4, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    "... but philosophy can be a religion."

                                    Philosophy (and science, Wissenschaft) do take the place of religion
                                    insofar
                                    as they manifest a continuation of human rational maturity (Hegel), but
                                    they
                                    do not become a religion in the one most important respect that they do
                                    NOT claim
                                    to know the absolute truth of all things, and they do not commend
                                    defenders of
                                    their enterprise for vanquishing detractors.

                                    Sorry
                                    Wil

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: eupraxis@...
                                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 8:28 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ

                                    "Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of
                                    religion as
                                    philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life
                                    are discussed."

                                    No, I think that would be your m.o. I find that religion gives false
                                    answers
                                    to "the larger questions of life" like, say, questions of origins and
                                    ends,
                                    morality and intellectual freedom, ontology and cosmology. Religion
                                    has all the
                                    answers to those topics without so much as a second thought, or a
                                    first one,
                                    really. It has absolutely no place in a group for free thought.

                                    "Philosophy" (qua philosophy) has its genealogical beginnings in
                                    classical
                                    antiquity, whose great minds never saw fit to write their own "bible"
                                    or call
                                    themselves gods or sons thereof. No mean feat back in those days.
                                    Their
                                    contemporaries to the south were not so perspicacious. The Greeks were
                                    calculating the
                                    diameter of the round earth when the flat-earth holy rollers were
                                    scaping
                                    goats and stoning the sundry and hapless eaters of escargot.

                                    "But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly
                                    secular
                                    viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter."

                                    No, that would be the meat.

                                    "maybe others want to see what can be said..."

                                    My sense is that they do not. No one wants to be saved here, I can
                                    assure
                                    you, and in any case no one wants a defender of 'the' faith, or ANY
                                    faith, to be
                                    creeping around, looking for an offence to go off about.

                                    "in today's world people do as they please and they don't care about
                                    any type
                                    of
                                    religion...",

                                    From your mouth to God's ear. But seriously, what newspapers are you
                                    NOT
                                    reading, my boy? Religion has infested most of the world, and with
                                    little more to
                                    show for it than internecine wars and pubic antagonisms.

                                    "... but philosophy can be a religion."

                                    Philosophy (and science, Wissenschaft) do take the place of religion
                                    insofar
                                    as they manifest a continuation of human rational maturity (Hegel),
                                    but they
                                    do not become a religion in the one most important respect that they
                                    do claim
                                    to know the absolute truth of all things, and they do not commend
                                    defenders of
                                    their enterprise for vanquishing detractors.

                                    "You always have the right to explore, but watch what you screen out,
                                    and
                                    what you say no to. You don't know, but religion, especially
                                    Christianity is more
                                    than just knowledge. Amen"

                                    I moderate a group on philosophy as well. In that group we do not
                                    tolerate
                                    any religious proselytizing at all. In fact, we have all agreed to a
                                    particular
                                    quantum of skepticism, if not cynicism, with regard to any and all
                                    theological
                                    matters. We claim an exclusivity of topic, and assume that all are on
                                    the
                                    same page. We were forced to do this after a blitzkrieg of
                                    Johnny-on-the-spot
                                    evangels intruded the list to save our souls and defend the Christ.

                                    This group, however, has seemed to get on well without that hard-line
                                    approach. I hope that you do not force the moderators' hand. But if
                                    your 'faith' is
                                    the warp of the woof of a compulsion, which is not a rare thing, I
                                    fear the
                                    worst. Amen, brother.

                                    Wil

                                    In a message dated 1/3/07 9:31:23 PM, jadumontelle@... writes:

                                    >
                                    > You know Susan I see that you may like existentialism but there are
                                    > Christian existentialists too.
                                    > Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of religion as
                                    > philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life
                                    are discussed.
                                    > But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly
                                    secular
                                    > viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter. Last
                                    thing...rules being what
                                    > they are you are right about this group...however you don't have to
                                    read
                                    > anything pertaining to Christ and religion as I see you see this as
                                    a
                                    > threat...besides. Whatever you discuss will always return to some
                                    form of religion as
                                    > philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life
                                    are
                                    > discussed. But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a
                                    strictly secular
                                    > viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter. Last
                                    thing...rules
                                    > being what they are you are right about this group...however you
                                    don't have to
                                    > read anything pertaining to Christ and religion as I see you see
                                    this as a
                                    > threat...besides.<wbr>..its too bad really, if you want to sic
                                    > religion, but philosophy can be a religion.
                                    > You always have the right to explore, but watch what you screen out,
                                    and
                                    > what you say no to. You don't know, but religion, especially
                                    Christianity is
                                    > more than just knowledge. Amen
                                    >
                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                                  • Exist List Moderator
                                    ... We cannot control every post, from spam to links to external sites. What we can do is say, after the fact, that something should not be posted to this
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jan 4, 2007
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                                      On Jan 03, 2007, at 21:22, Joe Dumontelle wrote:

                                      > religion as I see you see this as a threat...besides...its too bad
                                      > really, if you want to sic the moderator on me, maybe you're right,
                                      > but don't just allow videos on the sight that lie about Christ and
                                      > then ignore what Christians who are informed and

                                      We cannot control every post, from spam to links to external sites.
                                      What we can do is say, after the fact, that something should not be
                                      posted to this list. The operation of any forum or guest book feature
                                      is now a problem when at least 90% of the posts to such things are
                                      filtered by automation -- but some still slip through.


                                      - C. S. Wyatt
                                      I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
                                      that I shall be.
                                      http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
                                      http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
                                    • Joe Dumontelle
                                      Let me qualify what I mean that science can be a religion. I mean that science can be so, for a lack of a better term, worshipped that it becomes scientism.
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jan 4, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Let me qualify what I mean that science can be a religion. I mean that science can be so, for a lack of a better term, worshipped that it becomes scientism. Science is greatly respected and rightly so, by those specialists who are its so called scientists, its high priests. Science has its place. Even the Catholic church could not stop the march of science. (Galileo, for instance). Science is with us, whether we like it or not...but some think its the only item in society worthy to be fought for. Stephen Hawking, I admire, not for his disability, but for his science.

                                        ----- Original Message ----
                                        From: "eupraxis@..." <eupraxis@...>
                                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2007 9:42:53 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ - redux













                                        "... but philosophy can be a religion."



                                        Philosophy (and science, Wissenschaft) do take the place of religion

                                        insofar

                                        as they manifest a continuation of human rational maturity (Hegel), but

                                        they

                                        do not become a religion in the one most important respect that they do

                                        NOT claim

                                        to know the absolute truth of all things, and they do not commend

                                        defenders of

                                        their enterprise for vanquishing detractors.



                                        Sorry

                                        Wil



                                        -----Original Message-----

                                        From: eupraxis@aol. com

                                        To: existlist@yahoogrou ps.com

                                        Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 8:28 AM

                                        Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ



                                        "Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of

                                        religion as

                                        philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life

                                        are discussed."



                                        No, I think that would be your m.o. I find that religion gives false

                                        answers

                                        to "the larger questions of life" like, say, questions of origins and

                                        ends,

                                        morality and intellectual freedom, ontology and cosmology. Religion

                                        has all the

                                        answers to those topics without so much as a second thought, or a

                                        first one,

                                        really. It has absolutely no place in a group for free thought.



                                        "Philosophy" (qua philosophy) has its genealogical beginnings in

                                        classical

                                        antiquity, whose great minds never saw fit to write their own "bible"

                                        or call

                                        themselves gods or sons thereof. No mean feat back in those days.

                                        Their

                                        contemporaries to the south were not so perspicacious. The Greeks were

                                        calculating the

                                        diameter of the round earth when the flat-earth holy rollers were

                                        scaping

                                        goats and stoning the sundry and hapless eaters of escargot.



                                        "But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly

                                        secular

                                        viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter."



                                        No, that would be the meat.



                                        "maybe others want to see what can be said..."



                                        My sense is that they do not. No one wants to be saved here, I can

                                        assure

                                        you, and in any case no one wants a defender of 'the' faith, or ANY

                                        faith, to be

                                        creeping around, looking for an offence to go off about.



                                        "in today's world people do as they please and they don't care about

                                        any type

                                        of

                                        religion..." ,



                                        From your mouth to God's ear. But seriously, what newspapers are you

                                        NOT

                                        reading, my boy? Religion has infested most of the world, and with

                                        little more to

                                        show for it than internecine wars and pubic antagonisms.



                                        "... but philosophy can be a religion."



                                        Philosophy (and science, Wissenschaft) do take the place of religion

                                        insofar

                                        as they manifest a continuation of human rational maturity (Hegel),

                                        but they

                                        do not become a religion in the one most important respect that they

                                        do claim

                                        to know the absolute truth of all things, and they do not commend

                                        defenders of

                                        their enterprise for vanquishing detractors.



                                        "You always have the right to explore, but watch what you screen out,

                                        and

                                        what you say no to. You don't know, but religion, especially

                                        Christianity is more

                                        than just knowledge. Amen"



                                        I moderate a group on philosophy as well. In that group we do not

                                        tolerate

                                        any religious proselytizing at all. In fact, we have all agreed to a

                                        particular

                                        quantum of skepticism, if not cynicism, with regard to any and all

                                        theological

                                        matters. We claim an exclusivity of topic, and assume that all are on

                                        the

                                        same page. We were forced to do this after a blitzkrieg of

                                        Johnny-on-the- spot

                                        evangels intruded the list to save our souls and defend the Christ.



                                        This group, however, has seemed to get on well without that hard-line

                                        approach. I hope that you do not force the moderators' hand. But if

                                        your 'faith' is

                                        the warp of the woof of a compulsion, which is not a rare thing, I

                                        fear the

                                        worst. Amen, brother.



                                        Wil



                                        In a message dated 1/3/07 9:31:23 PM, jadumontelle@ yahoo.ca writes:



                                        >

                                        > You know Susan I see that you may like existentialism but there are

                                        > Christian existentialists too.

                                        > Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of religion as

                                        > philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life

                                        are discussed.

                                        > But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly

                                        secular

                                        > viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter. Last

                                        thing...rules being what

                                        > they are you are right about this group...however you don't have to

                                        read

                                        > anything pertaining to Christ and religion as I see you see this as

                                        a

                                        > threat...besides. Whatever you discuss will always return to some

                                        form of religion as

                                        > philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life

                                        are

                                        > discussed. But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a

                                        strictly secular

                                        > viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter. Last

                                        thing...rules

                                        > being what they are you are right about this group...however you

                                        don't have to

                                        > read anything pertaining to Christ and religion as I see you see

                                        this as a

                                        > threat...besides. <wbr>..its too bad really, if you want to sic

                                        > religion, but philosophy can be a religion.

                                        > You always have the right to explore, but watch what you screen out,

                                        and

                                        > what you say no to. You don't know, but religion, especially

                                        Christianity is

                                        > more than just knowledge. Amen

                                        >

                                        >



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                      • Joe Dumontelle
                                        You know some things just are, or they are discovered. Language is a difficult tool. In todays world even language is polluted. For example, rationalism is
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jan 4, 2007
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                                          You know some things just are, or they are discovered. Language is
                                          a difficult tool. In todays' world even language is polluted. For example, rationalism is defined one way by a philosopher say but someone else has a personal definition of rationalism. I'm taking liberties here. But philosophy can be a noble science, And I mean science, not in the strictest terms. Men have been divided for nearly 500 years between philosophy and religion. In the west, its been a struggle I know. I'm rambling
                                          However I don't have all the facts of history.
                                          Ah, free thinking--religion has no place in it. Would you agree that some secular humanistic endeavours do not believe that, they should not be saved, but want to save themselves. In other words, they don't want to be saved because they have no reason to be saved, saved from what? By whom? and other questions which are probably irrelevant from the secular humanistic viewpoint? I ask this as an example. I'm not assuming you're a secular humanist.
                                          You know that some Christians are very dogmatic and want to make you a member of their churches so quickly that you can't even breathe. I don't convert nobody, but I have to admit that I am biased to my faith. If there's a conversion, it's God that does the converting. But of course this is not part of free thinking. You have a right to your opinions and in our era, there's much of it.
                                          As to what newspapers I read, I am a journalism graduate. Newspapers have their importance in our world. We pride ourselves on being informed. However, newspapers tend to exaggerate at times, depending upon the writer, the reader and the circulation manager, who fell asleep in the midst of his daily perousal of the paper. Media is important, but I think that the medium is the massage. Ever read Marshall McLuhan's bent on the news media and its impact on the world? This is all theory. I don't read a newspaper everyday. That might be wrong. I miss some of what's goes on in the world. I don't watch much television neither. I listen to radio more. But one needs a thick skin to read news or it can creep up on a person. I keep the media at arms length. In that way, I too am a free-thinker. I don't need media tell me about how to think about the world. I need to relax and think and pray. That is my belief, at this time. I have to respect free-thinking...it is your right not to be
                                          proselytized. People who try to force it on you are religious militants. Not all religious people are the same. Some will allow you your freedom always. That is their nature and your nature. Some humanists and Christians do sometimes dialogue. If you know something of Malcolm Muggeridge and Bertrand Russell doing a radio program in England in the 60s or 70s it can be done. There can be a dialogue, communication. Those Christians who always tell you you're wrong on all counts are barking up the wrong tree. In fact not everyone can have everything wrong all the time. And no person is completely wrong or completely right...truth is a funny thing--it can grow or it can be believed. And there's levels of belief in something, someone or another philosophy. Your faith is in free thinking. Mine is in something else. Existentialism is a vehicle for understanding of life, when there's a lack of meaning in a person's life. (But I'm not saying that your life has no meaning).
                                          Existentialism in this web site is important. Enough said. Now that I've rambled and jumped this ship, get me another set of luggage, its late, time to sleep.
                                          One last thing do you know what time it is in England? Just kidding

                                          ----- Original Message ----
                                          From: "eupraxis@..." <eupraxis@...>
                                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2007 9:28:21 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: The Origin Of Jesus Christ













                                          "Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of religion as

                                          philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life are discussed."



                                          No, I think that would be your m.o. I find that religion gives false answers

                                          to "the larger questions of life" like, say, questions of origins and ends,

                                          morality and intellectual freedom, ontology and cosmology. Religion has all the

                                          answers to those topics without so much as a second thought, or a first one,

                                          really. It has absolutely no place in a group for free thought.



                                          "Philosophy" (qua philosophy) has its genealogical beginnings in classical

                                          antiquity, whose great minds never saw fit to write their own "bible" or call

                                          themselves gods or sons thereof. No mean feat back in those days. Their

                                          contemporaries to the south were not so perspicacious. The Greeks were calculating the

                                          diameter of the round earth when the flat-earth holy rollers were scaping

                                          goats and stoning the sundry and hapless eaters of escargot.



                                          "But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly secular

                                          viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter."



                                          No, that would be the meat.



                                          "maybe others want to see what can be said..."



                                          My sense is that they do not. No one wants to be saved here, I can assure

                                          you, and in any case no one wants a defender of 'the' faith, or ANY faith, to be

                                          creeping around, looking for an offence to go off about.



                                          "in today's world people do as they please and they don't care about any type

                                          of

                                          religion..." ,



                                          From your mouth to God's ear. But seriously, what newspapers are you NOT

                                          reading, my boy? Religion has infested most of the world, and with little more to

                                          show for it than internecine wars and pubic antagonisms.



                                          "... but philosophy can be a religion."



                                          Philosophy (and science, Wissenschaft) do take the place of religion insofar

                                          as they manifest a continuation of human rational maturity (Hegel), but they

                                          do not become a religion in the one most important respect that they do claim

                                          to know the absolute truth of all things, and they do not commend defenders of

                                          their enterprise for vanquishing detractors.



                                          "You always have the right to explore, but watch what you screen out, and

                                          what you say no to. You don't know, but religion, especially Christianity is more

                                          than just knowledge. Amen"



                                          I moderate a group on philosophy as well. In that group we do not tolerate

                                          any religious proselytizing at all. In fact, we have all agreed to a particular

                                          quantum of skepticism, if not cynicism, with regard to any and all theological

                                          matters. We claim an exclusivity of topic, and assume that all are on the

                                          same page. We were forced to do this after a blitzkrieg of Johnny-on-the- spot

                                          evangels intruded the list to save our souls and defend the Christ.



                                          This group, however, has seemed to get on well without that hard-line

                                          approach. I hope that you do not force the moderators' hand. But if your 'faith' is

                                          the warp of the woof of a compulsion, which is not a rare thing, I fear the

                                          worst. Amen, brother.



                                          Wil



                                          In a message dated 1/3/07 9:31:23 PM, jadumontelle@ yahoo.ca writes:



                                          >

                                          > You know Susan I see that you may like existentialism but there are

                                          > Christian existentialists too.

                                          > Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of religion as

                                          > philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life are discussed.

                                          > But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly secular

                                          > viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter. Last thing...rules being what

                                          > they are you are right about this group...however you don't have to read

                                          > anything pertaining to Christ and religion as I see you see this as a

                                          > threat...besides. Whatever you discuss will always return to some form of religion as

                                          > philosophy is a type of thing in which the larger questions of life are

                                          > discussed. But of course if you just discuss existentialism from a strictly secular

                                          > viewpoint you're missing the real meat of the matter. Last thing...rules

                                          > being what they are you are right about this group...however you don't have to

                                          > read anything pertaining to Christ and religion as I see you see this as a

                                          > threat...besides. <wbr>..its too bad really, if you want to sic

                                          > religion, but philosophy can be a religion.

                                          > You always have the right to explore, but watch what you screen out, and

                                          > what you say no to. You don't know, but religion, especially Christianity is

                                          > more than just knowledge. Amen

                                          >

                                          >



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • eupraxis@aol.com
                                          [As far as I understand, rationalism has failed. Existentialism may live, but rationalism has failed. Rationalism is reasoning taken to the nth degree. With
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jan 5, 2007
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                                            [As far as I understand, rationalism has failed. Existentialism may live, but
                                            rationalism has failed. Rationalism is reasoning taken to the nth degree.
                                            With rationalism we end up with radical relativism or rampant skepticism,
                                            bordering on cynicism. Rationalism and the enlightenment produced much science which
                                            led to longer lived lives. This is a boon to the west.]

                                            First of all the supposed "ending up" with "radical relativism", "skepticism"
                                            (rampant or otherwise) and "cynicism" do not amount to any proof about
                                            anything. But if you are saying that rational investigation (meaning, I suppose,
                                            that one isn't making things up or invoking unjustified hypotheses, etc.) leads
                                            one to a rejection of inadequate ideas and theories, well...yeah! What else?

                                            But more directly, what is this "radical relativism" being relative about?
                                            Apparently not religion, I guess. Alternative lifestyles? Using both Canon AND
                                            Nikon cameras at the same time? Playing "96 Tears" on the Royal Albert Hall
                                            pipe organ?

                                            As for skepticism, it is the first, most important requirement for any
                                            thinker to actually think. Yes, true rationalism and skepticism are joined at the
                                            hip, or should be. Cynicism is, by contrast, the effect of losing faith in
                                            things that never deserved it in the first place.

                                            Your inclusion of The "Enlightenment", regarded by all free thinkers as a
                                            watershed moment of independence from Crown and Altar, is very frightening. Just
                                            what ideology are you adopting that would have the Ben Franklins, Voltaires,
                                            Newtons, Humes and Kants in your crosshairs?

                                            [But rationalism has brought most men down.]

                                            Yes, from the trees.

                                            [Rationalism is so ridiculous at times that it becomes a circular argument,
                                            and results in rearranging one's prejudices. I think Freud had the right idea
                                            that sometimes our ego-defense mechanisms do exist and that we have
                                            rationalism.]

                                            Re Freud, "rationalization" and "rationalism" are different terms altogether.
                                            Freud was a rationalist; "The Wolfman" wasn't.

                                            [Relating rationalism to myself, I must say that I have reasoned many times,
                                            but the reasoning came to a dead end. Not because I blundered, but because I
                                            didn't have all the facts. I didn't have the evidence.]

                                            Well, don't give up, my good fellow. Try, try again.

                                            Wil


                                            In a message dated 1/4/07 11:42:28 PM, jadumontelle@... writes:


                                            >
                                            > Let me qualify what I mean that science can be a religion. I mean that
                                            > science can be so, for a lack of a better term, worshipped that it becomes
                                            > scientism. Science is greatly respected and rightly so, by those specialists who are
                                            > its so called scientists, its high priests. Science has its place. Even the
                                            > Catholic church could not stop the march of science. (Galileo, for instance).
                                            > Science is with us, whether we like it or not...but some think its the only
                                            > item in society worthy to be fought for. Stephen Hawking, I admire, not for
                                            > his disability, but for his science.
                                            >
                                            >



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Tor Hershman
                                            For those that wanted to leave a comment @ YouTube, here is my Jesus Christ Super Star vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLGJXo8gshg or, it you prefer
                                            Message 21 of 24 , May 10, 2013
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                                              For those that wanted to leave a comment @ YouTube, here is
                                              my Jesus Christ Super Star vid.
                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLGJXo8gshg
                                              or, it you prefer Krishna
                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-C02_WfrFA

                                              Stay on groovin' safari,
                                              Tor
                                            • Tor Hershman
                                              ... What is your definition of Short order? ;-) I did have quite a few heart-attacks & quintuple bypass surgeries. Here s my definition of AmaZING Grace...
                                              Message 22 of 24 , May 10, 2013
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                                                > I have to agree with you Ja Mon. God is my favorite
                                                > imaginary friend . For someone to make a video about
                                                > his side kick JC is just wacky. I wouldnt get to upset
                                                > though for Im sure he will turn to salt or be
                                                > swallowed by a whale or something like that in short
                                                > order.


                                                What is your definition of "Short order?" ;-)
                                                I did have quite a few heart-attacks & quintuple bypass surgeries.
                                                Here's my definition of AmaZING Grace...
                                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjK_yVdGNGk
                                              • Mary
                                                Stoner humor. . . Mary
                                                Message 23 of 24 , May 10, 2013
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                                                  Stoner humor. . .

                                                  Mary

                                                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Tor Hershman" <dhershman00@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > > I have to agree with you Ja Mon. God is my favorite
                                                  > > imaginary friend . For someone to make a video about
                                                  > > his side kick JC is just wacky. I wouldnt get to upset
                                                  > > though for Im sure he will turn to salt or be
                                                  > > swallowed by a whale or something like that in short
                                                  > > order.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > What is your definition of "Short order?" ;-)
                                                  > I did have quite a few heart-attacks & quintuple bypass surgeries.
                                                  > Here's my definition of AmaZING Grace...
                                                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjK_yVdGNGk
                                                  >
                                                • Tor Hershman
                                                  CULTurally stoned & intellectual hobbled response, Mary. http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpg/2d716e58471607adbdc4d91b4823b77076ba261b_r.jpg
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , May 11, 2013
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                                                    CULTurally stoned & intellectual hobbled response, Mary.

                                                    http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpg/2d716e58471607adbdc4d91b4823b77076ba261b_r.jpg



                                                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Stoner humor. . .
                                                    >
                                                    > Mary
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