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Re: [existlist] NOLA and Existenalism

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  • eupraxis@aol.com
    I thank you for that. We all do. Wil ... From: macchionec@yahoo.com To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [existlist] NOLA
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 26, 2006
      I thank you for that. We all do.

      Wil

      -----Original Message-----
      From: macchionec@...
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 5:38 PM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] NOLA and Existenalism

      Wil,
      One of the most memorable experiences of my life
      happened around September 29th. I was sent into New
      Orleans area to scope out possible sites to set up
      Service Delivery sites, (I work/volunteer with the
      American Red Cross)I was in Metarie, which is west of
      New Orleans proper, I was standing in a hotel area,
      which was fairly vacant except for some National Guard
      units; I was talking to them about what areas were
      accessible; areas where there were people needing
      assistance with food, water, etc.. and the wind had
      picked up. All of a sudden we hear the sound of sheets
      of glass crashing down about 1/2 a block away. It was
      the panes of glass falling out of the skyscrapers that
      were badly damaged. That sound of and vision was so
      bizarre. You see debris flying all around, the fairly
      musty swell of dirty water. (Lake Pontchatrain is
      fairly gross)and seeing sheets of glass falling off
      buildings, well, quite a visual image.

      The feeling for the six months was euphoric,
      desperate, and at times;horrific, a series of constant
      stimulation.

      I had quit my life-sucking job: I knew that I could be
      of some use; and what started as a 3 week deployment,
      turned into almost 5 months. I didn't leave until
      March 1. I am still trying to comprehend what I saw
      and experienced. But I maintained staying focused on
      the mission: Helping those in need.
      --- eupraxis@... wrote:

      > When I saw that my situation was one of total
      > upset, watching the levee breaches on CNN in a motel
      > room and knowing that it was only a matter of time
      > before my area was to look like Venice, I was struck
      > with an odd kind of calm (and dread, of course). I
      > had my Jeep Cherokee with a full tank, my favorite
      > guitars and books in the back, a few bucks in my
      > wallet. Where to now, I thought? I felt kind of ...
      > free. (A delusion, of course, but a nice feeling
      > while it lasted.) Went west, young man. Texas. But
      > THAT is another story... .
      >
      > Returning was also very spooky. Words can't express
      > the eerieness of the place at that time. The city of
      > New Orleans was colorless (gray, I guess due to the
      > mud and dust) and very quiet. It was like one of the
      > alternative realities in the Silent Hill video game.
      > The place looked 'hurt'. Oddly enough, my place was
      > more or less okay. Electricity was on (in half of
      > the place); cable worked. If you didn't look
      > outside, you might almost forget what had happened.
      >
      > The first night that I went out to a blues club in
      > town, the comradery was so intoxicating that ...
      > let's leave it at intoxicating. There have been
      > really great things that have come along as a
      > consequence of the tragedy. The good will of those
      > who helped us out was one of them. Hope springs
      > eternal.
      >
      > Wil
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: macchionec@...
      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 3:57 PM
      > Subject: [existlist] NOLA and Existenalism
      >
      > Having spent nearly 6 months working in NOLA
      > right
      > after Katrina/Rita hit(I was doing Disaster
      > Relief)The
      > response/view of those affected were far more
      > scatterd
      > than any of those presented in the media, or this
      > discussion group.
      > Having met Mr. "Chocolate City" himself several
      > times,
      > and various celebrities/politicians more than I
      > ever
      > wanted to; everyone has their own belief, own view
      > on
      > who was responsible, whom to blame, etc..
      >
      > Yet the individuals that truly made an impact on
      > me,
      > were the ones who viewed the disaster as a great
      > opportunity-- not because the loss and destruction,
      > but for the people to motivate themselves and do
      > something about their environment. To bring
      > awareness
      > to the long-standing situations plagueing NOLA and
      > the
      > southern states of Lousiana, Mississippi, Alabama,
      > etc... The corruption, lack of follow through,
      > lies,
      > politicking, racism,... The list goes on. So out of
      > mass destruction and devastation; a chance to
      > become
      > anew. To flush out the old, stagnant, and rotted
      > sytems (and individuals)An opportunity to redefine
      > one's future. Some of these individuals truly
      > become
      > existenalists while surviving and recovering from
      > Katrina. They learned that to rely solely on others
      > for their safety, livelihood, and future leaves
      > them
      > more vulnerable, in a position to be used, and a
      > greater chance to become a victim. They awoke to
      > the
      > fact that life requires participation in all
      > aspects:
      > not just fat and happy consumers. To rattle cages,
      > to
      > become involved, to voice their views, To Exist!
      >
      > --- Trinidad Cruz <cruzprdb@...> wrote:
      >
      > > First one also has to consider that the majority
      > of
      > > people who lived
      > > in New Orleans simply had no real grasp of the
      > > threat, and no
      > > understanding beyond legoland of levee
      > construction.
      > > Sure some of the
      > > wealthier and more educated citizens of NOLA
      > > understood these things
      > > to a depth reasonable enough to actually actually
      > > argue that they were
      > > responsible for living in a potential disaster
      > area,
      > > but they are the
      > > minority and most of them got out. Given this gap
      > in
      > > actual
      > > understanding of the potentially diasterous
      > > consequences between rich
      > > and poor and for the most part divided along
      > black
      > > and white;and the
      > > total lack of any reasonable evacuation plan;
      > makes
      > > the State
      > > government, the City government,and the Federal
      > > government arguably
      > > guilty of mass murder. And the truth is they
      > really
      > > did not care if
      > > the poor black residents lost their homes and
      > lives,
      > > or there would
      > > have been better planning.Everyone knows
      > hurricanes
      > > are dangerous,
      > > everyone cast a wary eye at the levees, not all
      > of
      > > them were equal in
      > > understanding the consequences. Poverty itself in
      > > places like NOLA is
      > > the disaster. If you were poor and black in NOLA
      > you
      > > were already an
      > > institutionally designated victim. It's not much
      > of
      > > an institutional
      > > stretch to let you die. Why didn't NOLA BUILD
      > PUBLIC
      > > HOUSING ON HIGH
      > > GROUND. Let industry and the wealthy take the
      > risk
      > > of dangerous
      > > locations. They can prepare for it. The poor
      > simply
      > > cannot produce the
      > > resources to respond in self defence toward
      > natural
      > > disasters with any
      > > effectiveness. I know what it's like to live in
      > the
      > > "bottoms".
      > >
      > > In a community in Ohio (ask Mary about deatils)
      > > there was a public
      > > graded school built on an old WW2 and Korean War
      > > chemical dump. Over
      > > the years the community developed a markedly
      > above
      > > normal rate of
      > > childhood leukemia and other cancers. Eventually
      > > they tore the school
      > > down and scarified the land. WHY ARE SCHOOLS
      > BUILT
      > > ON SUCH SITES?
      > > Check your view of the sytstem. Things don't work
      > > the way you think.It
      > > used to be if you had nothing and were willing to
      > > work you could sleep
      > > in the barn. The poor have no natural defence
      > > against oppression other
      > > than government.Look into the "lace curtain"
      > Irish,
      > > and why they
      > > earned that name. The dynamic is the same here
      > only
      > > racially
      > > divided.The bootstrap days are gone gone gone,
      > > unless of course we
      > > earn our way the same as white America, war and
      > > bloodshed. There are
      > > no ethics at the top. It is a natural
      > > dissipation.Everybody wants to
      > > throw the stone in the ocean eventually, but what
      > > they don't realize
      > > is: that they directly contribute to its
      > increasing
      > > weight by their
      > > ordinary everyday activity. The longer you live
      > the
      > > more poor there
      > > will be, until some thug in control kills a few
      > off.
      > > They come back.
      > > You make new ones everyday.
      > >
      > > tc
      > >
      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Susan
      > Schnelbach
      > > <susan@...> wrote:
      > > >
      >
      === message truncated ===

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    • louise
      These kinds of political dispute are generally not about blame, but rather the realistic possibility of asking straight questions and getting honest answers.
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 27, 2006
        These kinds of political dispute are generally not about blame, but
        rather the realistic possibility of asking straight questions and
        getting honest answers.

        LK

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Susan Schnelbach <susan@...> wrote:
        >
        > I think you are forgetting some personal responsibility in that
        > statement: shouldn't people who live below sea level in a
        hurricane
        > zone also have some responsibility for the mess?
        >
        > When in our society did it become not only permissible, but
        required,
        > to blame everyone else for any calamity or natural disaster? Did
        you
        > know that there is a group here in MN trying to sue the weather
        > service for not being able to predict a freak tornado? When did
        > humans suddenly become able to predict and control nature? You
        can't
        > control it, you can only get out of the way...
        >
        > Susan Schnelbach
        > Technical Writing, Editing, Grant Writing
        > Tameri Guide for Writers: http://www.tameri.com
        >
        >
        > On Sep 25, 2006, at 10:32 AM, eupraxis@... wrote:
        >
        > > Essence is abstract; existence is concrete. The concrete
        precedes
        > > the abstract; it is the condition for its being in the world.
        > >
        > > By the way, Katrina didn't cause the damage in Louisiana. The
        Army
        > > Corp of Engineers and a lot of corrupt and incompetent local,
        state
        > > and federal officials built bogus levees or allowed them to be
        > > built. I couldn't believe that the levees broke! I was ready to
        > > come back into Louisiana from Texas, but all of a sudden I was
        like
        > > Kerouac on the road.
        > >
        > > Wil
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: cruzprdb@...
        > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 1:56 PM
        > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Does your existence precedes some
        essence
        > > at your 'Core' ?
        > >
        > > Jay,
        > >
        > > Essence is like a plastic baggie of iron filings, and existence
        is a
        > > magnet moving around outside the bag. Essence is Katrina, and
        > > existence is New Orleans. Essence is complacent and existence is
        > > intentional. The solidarity of desolation: build bigger levees
        baby,
        > > and blow your damn horn, and keep a little boat out back.
        > >
        > > Trinidad
        > >
        > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "James Johnson" <netjaysd@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Mary, Bill, Louise, Wil, Trinidad, C.S Wyatt or anyone else
        out
        > > there,
        > > >
        > > > With a continued effort and attempt to connect
        > > and gain from your
        > > > experiential 'wisdom'. Does or how does the phrase 'existence
        > > precedes
        > > > essence' have any practical meaning in how you relate to
        others or
        > > to yourself
        > > > ? In advance, I apologize ( especially for my sarcastic tone )
        for
        > > having missed
        > > > the earlier discussions/disclosing as to what they mean on a
        > > personal (
        > > > seems important ) level or on a general level. Are they just
        words
        > > ( Self,
        > > > Being, Other, Freedom, Choice,Responsibility,Anguish ) like any
        > > other words
        > > > being of the past and not needing to be explained in a personal
        > > context or
        > > > personal meaning. Hopefully these words/phrase can be
        regurgitated/
        > > > transmitted from humans touched by them to all desiring more
        > > meaning in
        > > > their lives and need not have to jump through hoops or
        performed
        > > great feast
        > > > to get into the 'Club' to hear your meanings.
        > > > Honestly, I had come to this site in the hope to
        > > find people who
        > > > have a individual passion/fire for their 'philosophical words'
        and
        > > primarily
        > > > what they means in their daily lives ( can walk their talk). I
        had
        > > hoped to find
        > > > humans with the ability to rationally articulate their
        > > passion/emotions in a
        > > > grounded/simple way ( not distanting themselves with
        undefined 'BIG'
        > > words ).
        > > > I, like you, have watch/observe/listen to the
        > > interactions/relationships between
        > > > each of you/us. I have questioned some of you about some of the
        > > your words
        > > > " I thought" had a daily philsophical' existence ' to them.
        Even
        > > though I have
        > > > shared where I find my ' existence', it seems again to me that
        what
        > > is more of
        > > > enjoyment here is non "existence philosophical stuff '" (
        opinions
        > > about
        > > > violence, politics ( Wow, whos' sperm Gore's son got ? ),
        books etc
        > > ) and very
        > > > rarely do you I get any insight as to what attracts someone to
        the
        > > subject at
        > > > hand.
        > > > Apparently to discuss ones reality ( how the past or
        > > the future is
        > > > involved in the present moment or isn't ), essence ( what
        makes up
        > > me Self or
        > > > Other) , existence ( What I consciously am aware of in the
        present
        > > moment or
        > > > not and what the relationship between them) or how does actual
        > > change or
        > > > pratical knowledge occurs in ones daily life ( not the knowing
        more
        > > words or
        > > > data to share with someone else ) is not the enjoyment or the
        focus
        > > of this '
        > > > PHILOSOPHICAL' site since no one wants to expose or maybe ones
        can't
        > > > define in daily or experential terms what any of these terms
        mean to
        > > them.
        > > > I get the impression that what I have read that
        > > others have written
        > > > about in what surrounds 'philosophy' is just like what others
        say
        > > that
        > > > surrounds religion ( or some other subjective area of
        interest )
        > > being just
        > > > words for most to feel that they are in the 'Club' ( smart and
        OK )
        > > and will
        > > > expose only what makes them look good. And if I read the
        original
        > > version or
        > > > read a hand me down version we all can happily argue (
        since 'he'
        > > dead and
        > > > can't tell us in his own words, hopefully he wasn't a lover of
        words
        > > about
        > > > words ) on what the 'real' interpretation. It always comes
        down to
        > > arguing
        > > > about what the words mean as it should. That attention to
        detail, in
        > > defining
        > > > words as simply as possible so you meaning is understood,
        isn't that
        > > one of
        > > > ones goal, defining nothing.
        > > > I again apologize for my sarcatic tone. As the late Dr
        > > Knott ( the non
        > > > existentialist, as others have admitted here also) said
        erronously
        > > about me , I
        > > > not asking others to entertain me ( I assume I'm enough of the
        self
        > > > disclosuring entertainment for everyone) just to be more
        revealing
        > > about what
        > > > ones words mean on a personal level because that is where we
        > > actually live
        > > > in the real world. Rampant poor communication between
        ourselves and
        > > > others. Instead of the venting of gossip,stories, goans, anger,
        > > frustrations or
        > > > the avoidance of others which is done in a defensive manner,
        I
        > > like it
        > > > because it feels good not that it serves a connecting purpose
        to
        > > ones people
        > > > problems. Though you maybe like Dr Knott and not be aware of
        > > feelings (
        > > > anguish) and you may be above these and have no need to go
        there
        > > since
        > > > your focus is on more positive things. In the end I hope you
        may
        > > totally agree
        > > > with one motto of the Existential Primer...... ......
        > > >
        > > Dedicated to explaining nothing....
        > > >
        > > > If you can't explain or define what your
        > > existence or essence
        > > > means to you at the presence moment sitting and reading this
        at your
        > > > computer maybe you can explain or define what 'nothing' means
        to you
        > > > sitting and reading this in front of your computer.
        > > > To me my existence feels frequently like
        > > nothing ( Blank).
        > > > Standing Alone next to 'you' Nothingness ( You being in the
        > > computer) can
        > > > mean being ( You can representing voices of nothingness
        > > ( smart,
        > > > power and authority) saying" Who do the Hell do you think you
        are
        > > Jay ? 'And
        > > > what inexperienced nonsense do have say ?')
        > >
        > > > n in fear of being found out
        > > as being a fake ( Just an
        > > > empty container, Knott's word "Inexperienced" ). How willing
        am I
        > > to allow
        > > > myself to stand next to the 'nothing' ( other ) and take it in
        and
        > > not run away
        > > > from the these voices darkness ( Jay, you're a fuckin piece of
        scum)
        > > ? That
        > > > hard to not to run away since there are parts of me who
        believe this
        > > is true.
        > > >
        > > > I hope I was entertaining for
        > > most of you,
        > > >
        > > > Jay
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________________________________
        > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety
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        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Exist List Moderator
        ... Not exactly the response and tone one should post here. I ve been reading through about 100 or so posts, just to see the tone and topics, and we need to do
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 29, 2006
          On Sep 25, 2006, at 18:37, eupraxis@... wrote:

          > Why don't you shove it!
          >
          > Wil

          Not exactly the response and tone one should post here. I've been
          reading through about 100 or so posts, just to see the tone and
          topics, and we need to do something about the crosstalk patterns
          developing.

          Susan's question is valid, to me: why are we trying to hold the NWS
          responsible for a freak storm in MN? Because we want a perfectly
          safe, perfectly controlled (by humans?) environment. We don't want to
          take any responsibility nor do we want any blame for bad human
          decisions and even worse actions (especially on the part of leaders
          shifting blame). That a congressman (a local Republican who is
          curiously against the flood walls in St. Paul) is trying to hold the
          NWS responsible for a tornado shows that it is nothing more than a
          campaign ploy.

          People need to realize... life happens and it isn't always
          controlled. In fact, as someone else noted, I think Aija, when
          mankind does get involved in nature, we tend to muck it up, like
          ruining the very natural barriers that would have helped insulate the
          Gulf regions.

          Watch the attitudes on the list and try to be something more
          collegial. I'm dealing with enough sour attitudes in my department,
          which will cease to exist next year. I would rather this list
          actually be more mature than the instructors I encounter.

          - CSW
        • eupraxis@aol.com
          Let s just leave it alone. ... From: existlist1@tameri.com To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Does your
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 29, 2006
            Let's just leave it alone.
            -----Original Message-----
            From: existlist1@...
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 2:06 PM
            Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Does your existence precedes some essence at your 'Core' ?

            On Sep 25, 2006, at 18:37, eupraxis@... wrote:

            > Why don't you shove it!
            >
            > Wil

            Not exactly the response and tone one should post here. I've been
            reading through about 100 or so posts, just to see the tone and
            topics, and we need to do something about the crosstalk patterns
            developing.

            Susan's question is valid, to me: why are we trying to hold the NWS
            responsible for a freak storm in MN? Because we want a perfectly
            safe, perfectly controlled (by humans?) environment. We don't want to
            take any responsibility nor do we want any blame for bad human
            decisions and even worse actions (especially on the part of leaders
            shifting blame). That a congressman (a local Republican who is
            curiously against the flood walls in St. Paul) is trying to hold the
            NWS responsible for a tornado shows that it is nothing more than a
            campaign ploy.

            People need to realize... life happens and it isn't always
            controlled. In fact, as someone else noted, I think Aija, when
            mankind does get involved in nature, we tend to muck it up, like
            ruining the very natural barriers that would have helped insulate the
            Gulf regions.

            Watch the attitudes on the list and try to be something more
            collegial. I'm dealing with enough sour attitudes in my department,
            which will cease to exist next year. I would rather this list
            actually be more mature than the instructors I encounter.

            - CSW

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