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Re: [existlist] File - FAQ

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  • Albert
    This list is not working properly, now for the last 2 months... Albert. ... From: To: Sent: Friday,
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
      This list is not working properly, now for the last 2 months...

      Albert.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:20 AM
      Subject: [existlist] File - FAQ


      >
      > ExistList FAQ
      >
      > Last Updated: 01-Jan-2005
      >
      > Contents
      > 1.0 The List
      > 1.1 The list's purpose
      > 1.2 History
      > 1.3 URLs for the list
      > 1.4 Founder and moderators
      > 1.5 Rules
      > 2.0 Topics Discussed
      > 2.1 Existentialism
      > 2.2 Phenomenology
      > 3.0 More Information
      > 3.1 Official Exist List pages
      > 3.2 Yahoo Homepage
      >
      >
      > 1.0 The Exist List
      >
      > The Exist List is a "mailing list server" hosted on Yahoo Groups. The
      > experienced Internet users prefer the term LISTSERV, a reference to an old
      > VAX/VMS and UNIX program used to maintain mailing lists. (Notice the "ER"
      > for List Server is missing because data file and program names were
      > limited to eight characters.)
      >
      > Members receive "postings" from each other via e-mail, or you can elect to
      > read the postings on Yahoo, where an archive of all posts since 1999
      > resides. Most members select to read via the Yahoo web page, due to the
      > volume of posts.
      >
      > 1.1 Purpose
      >
      > This mailing list is a community interested in existentialism,
      > phenomenology, and philosophy in general. The primary purpose is to
      > explore Continental schools of thought, as opposed to Analytical
      > Philosophy. Yes, Sartre, Nietzsche, and Kierkegaard, but also many others:
      > Frankl, May, Jaspers, and Merleau-Ponty to name a few. This list
      > encourages questions and exchanges of information. We want to know about
      > the latest literature, articles, book releases, and more. Feel free to
      > post book or film recommendations, in addition to questions on
      > philosophical texts.
      >
      > 1.2 History
      >
      > The list was started in the late 1980s on the BITNET. It moved to FidoNet
      > in 1992, then to OneList, eGroups, and finally landing at its current home
      > on Yahoo Groups by 1999. The group pre-dates the creation of the
      > Existential Primer Web site. The site was created in November, 1996, and
      > has been expanding ever since.
      >
      > 1.3 URLs for the Exist List
      >
      > The mailing list URL is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
      >
      > The Official homepage URL is: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist. I maintain
      > the "Existential Primer" at the preceding URL. It is only a primer, not an
      > all-inclusive look at existentialism, phenomenology, and Continental
      > philosophy. Members and potential members of the Exist List are encouraged
      > to visit the Existential Primer on a regular basis to offer suggestions,
      > corrections, and possible additions.
      >
      > 1.4 Founder and Moderators
      >
      > I (C. S. Wyatt) founded the list at a time when the Internet was still too
      > "academic" in many ways. My goal was to make philosophical discussions
      > open to everyone, not merely graduate students and professors. I am a
      > reader and writer interested in philosophy. As for academic credentials...
      > I'm working on them. I have undergraduate degrees in English and
      > journalism; I am currently completing a masters degree in composition and
      > rhetoric. I plan to pursue a doctorate in rhetoric. (Yes, I am belatedly
      > pursuing the graduate education. Life is like that.)
      >
      > Is this group actively moderated? Ideally, no, but there are times when we
      > must intervene. Moderators vary over time and may be located via the Yahoo
      > page.
      >
      > 1.5 What are the rules of the list?
      >
      > No personal attacks. No lengthy discussions of specific religious issues
      > (take those to other lists, please). No strong profanity (you know which
      > words those would be). Be polite, and try to keep discussions on the topic
      > of philosophy as much as possible.
      >
      > The list does not function if you "flood" the list with off-topic posts,
      > personal messages, or more than five posts during a single 24-hour period.
      >
      > 1.5.1 No personal attacks
      >
      > We want this group to remain polite and inviting. Be polite. If you
      > disagree with someone, explain your reasons without insulting the other
      > individual personally.
      >
      > 1.5.2 No lengthy discussions of specific religious issues
      >
      > Long discussions of specific religious issues belong in other mailing
      > lists, not here. Christian Existentialism is a valid point of discussion,
      > as are philosophers within that grouping, but we do not want this list to
      > be dominated by discussions of Christianity. Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche, and
      > many others were not Christians. There is room for all topics, but not for
      > dwelling on one branch of existentialism.
      >
      > 1.5.3 No profanity
      >
      > This list is used by students. We expect proper behavior.
      >
      > 1.5.4 No "flooding" the group with posts
      >
      > We ask that members limit their posts to five per day, with a maximum of
      > ten during an active exchange. Members posting too often appear to be
      > "shouting" at the group. Dominating a group causes others to leave, as
      > when one person dominates a dinner party. Share the floor, as it were, and
      > help us encourage participation by as many members as possible. Do not
      > "hog" space on the list -- it is poor form. If people are not responding
      > to a topic you suggest, give them time. Not everyone can read the list
      > daily, so be patient. This is not a chat room, it is a mailing list.
      >
      > 2.0 List Topics
      >
      > New or potential members should read our Official Homepage:
      > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist. After reading the homepage, then try to
      > remain on topic. Topics allowed include existentialism, phenomenology, and
      > Continental philosophy. Any philosophical discussion is welcomed as long
      > as it takes the topic seriously and encourages an exchange of ideas.
      > Current philosophy is a frequent topic, especially post-modernism.
      >
      > 2.1 Existentialism Defined
      >
      > Visit http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/elexicon.html for a list of
      > definitions and a complete lexicon used by academics when discussing
      > existentialism.
      >
      > 2.1.1 Merriam-Webster Online
      >
      > http://www.m-w.com
      >
      > ex·is·ten·tial·ism. Pronunciation: -'ten(t)-sh&-"li-z&m. noun. A chiefly
      > 20th century philosophical movement embracing diverse doctrines but
      > centering on analysis of individual existence in an unfathomable universe
      > and the plight of the individual who must assume ultimate responsibility
      > for his acts of free will without any certain knowledge of what is right
      > or wrong or good or bad
      >
      > 2.1.2 Webster's New World Dictionary, Second College Edition.
      >
      > William Collins Publishers, Inc.; Cleveland, Ohio; 1979
      >
      > The doctrine that existence takes precedence over essence and holding that
      > man is totally free and responsible for his acts. This responsibility is
      > the source of dread and anguish that encompass mankind.
      >
      > 2.1.3 American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition.
      >
      > Houghton Mifflin Company, 1992
      >
      > A philosophy that emphasizes the uniqueness and isolation of the
      > individual experience in a hostile or indifferent universe, regards human
      > existence as unexplainable, and stresses freedom of choice and
      > responsibility for the consequences of one's acts.
      >
      > 2.1.4 Britannica Concise Encyclopedia.
      >
      > April 20, 2003, from Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service.
      > http://www.britannica.com/
      >
      > Philosophical movement oriented toward two major themes, the analysis of
      > human existence and the centrality of human choice. Existentialism's chief
      > theoretical energies are thus devoted to questions about ontology and
      > decision. It traces its roots to the writings of Soren Kierkegaard and
      > Friedrich Nietzsche. As a philosophy of human existence, existentialism
      > found its best 20th-century exponent in Karl Jaspers; as a philosophy of
      > human decision, its foremost representative was J.P. Sartre. Sartre finds
      > the essence of human existence in freedom-in the duty of
      > self-determination and the freedom of choice -- and therefore spends much
      > time describing the human tendency toward "bad faith," reflected in
      > humanity's perverse attempts to deny its own responsibility and flee from
      > the truth of its inescapable freedom.
      >
      > 2.1.5 World Book Multimedia Encyclopedia.
      >
      > World Book, Inc, 2001
      >
      > Existentialism, pronounced ehg zihs TEHN shuh lihz uhm, is a philosophical
      > movement that developed in continental Europe during the 1800's and
      > 1900's. The movement is called existentialism because most of its members
      > are primarily interested in the nature of existence or being, by which
      > they usually mean human existence. Although the philosophers generally
      > considered to be existentialists often disagree with each other and
      > sometimes even resent being classified together, they have been grouped
      > together because they share many problems, interests, and ideas.
      >
      > The most prominent existentialist thinkers of the 1900's include the
      > French writers Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre, and Gabriel Marcel; the
      > German philosophers Karl Jaspers and Martin Heidegger; the Russian
      > religious and political thinker Nicolas Berdyaev; and the Jewish
      > philosopher Martin Buber.
      >
      > 2.1.6 World Book, New York Times Dictionary.
      >
      > World Book, Inc., 2001
      >
      > existentialism, noun.
      > a philosophy holding that reality consists of living and that man makes
      > himself what he is and is responsible personally only to himself for what
      > he makes himself. Modern existentialism was developed by a group of
      > contemporary writers, such as Gabriel Marcel, Karl Jaspers, and especially
      > Jean Paul Sartre, out of the works of Soren Kierkegaard, Friedrich
      > Nietzsche, and other existentialist philosophers and writers of the
      > 1800's. Existentialism, as expounded by Sartre, is not pessimistic in the
      > nihilist sense, but is a doctrine of fortitude and even hope.
      >
      > 2.1.7 The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.
      >
      > Columbia University Press, 2002.
      > http://www.bartleby.com/65/ex/existentism.html
      >
      > (gzstn´shlzm, ks-) any of several philosophic systems, all centered on the
      > individual and his relationship to the universe or to God. Important
      > existentialists of varying and conflicting thought are Søren Kierkegaard,
      > Karl Jaspers, Martin Heidegger, Gabriel Marcel, and Jean-Paul Sartre. All
      > revolt against the traditional metaphysical approaches to man and his
      > place in the universe. Thinkers such as St. Thomas Aquinas, Blaise Pascal,
      > and Friedrich Nietzsche have been called existentialists, but it is more
      > accurate to place the beginnings of the movement with Kierkegaard.
      >
      > Sartre was the only self-declared existentialist among the major thinkers.
      > For him the central idea of all existential thought is that existence
      > precedes essence. For Sartre there is no God and therefore no fixed human
      > nature that forces one to act. Man is totally free and entirely
      > responsible for what he makes of himself. It is this freedom and
      > responsibility that, as for Kierkegaard, is the source of man's dread.
      >
      > 2.2 Phenomenology
      >
      > 2.2.1 Merriam-Webster Online
      >
      > http://www.m-w.com
      >
      > phe·nom·e·nol·o·gy. Pronunciation: fi-"nä-m&-'nä-l&-jE. noun. circa 1797
      > Etymology: German Phänomenologie, from Phänomenon phenomenon
      > + -logie -logy
      >
      > 1: the study of the development of human consciousness and self-awareness
      > as a preface to philosophy or a part of philosophy. Experience usually is
      > considered over science, senses over objective reality due to how we
      > acquire knowledge.
      >
      > 2 (a) A philosophical movement that describes the formal structure of the
      > objects of awareness and of awareness itself in abstraction from any
      > claims concerning existence. The typological classification of a class of
      > phenomena <the phenomenology of religion> (b) An analysis produced by
      > phenomenological investigation
      >
      > 3.0 More Information
      >
      > Neither the Exist List nor my Web site offers enough information for even
      > a beginning study of existentialism. Members of the list are encouraged to
      > explore and learn via the web and via the wonders of printed pages.
      >
      > 3.1 Official List Pages
      >
      > The Existential Primer currently features profiles on the following
      > writers/philosophers: de Beauvoir, Camus, Dostoevsky, Hegel, Heidegger,
      > Husserl, Jaspers, Kafka, Kierkegaard, Merleau-Ponty, Nietzsche, Sartre,
      > and several others in progress, too. The pages are works in progress. See
      > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/index.html on a regular basis for updates.
      > For a non-framed version, visit http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/exist.html
      >
      > 3.2 Visit the Yahoo Page
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
      >
      > The Yahoo page and my page include links to other philosophy sites,
      > databases for research, and even a live chat option.
      >
      >
      > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
      >
      > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
      > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: 8/31/2006
      >
    • two_owl_night
      Yes, Albert. Help us get back on track. We ve probably been emphasizing psychological aspects of existentialism without overtly demonstrating the connections.
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
        Yes, Albert. Help us get back on track. We've probably been
        emphasizing psychological aspects of existentialism without overtly
        demonstrating the connections. It's difficult to read between the
        lines but often that's where existential themes spell themselves out.

        Mary

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert" <al_d@...> wrote:
        >
        > This list is not working properly, now for the last 2 months...
        >
        > Albert.
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:20 AM
        > Subject: [existlist] File - FAQ
        >
        >
        > >
        > > ExistList FAQ
        > >
        > > Last Updated: 01-Jan-2005
        > >
        > > Contents
        > > 1.0 The List
        > > 1.1 The list's purpose
        > > 1.2 History
        > > 1.3 URLs for the list
        > > 1.4 Founder and moderators
        > > 1.5 Rules
        > > 2.0 Topics Discussed
        > > 2.1 Existentialism
        > > 2.2 Phenomenology
        > > 3.0 More Information
        > > 3.1 Official Exist List pages
        > > 3.2 Yahoo Homepage
        > >
        > >
        > > 1.0 The Exist List
        > >
        > > The Exist List is a "mailing list server" hosted on Yahoo Groups.
        The
        > > experienced Internet users prefer the term LISTSERV, a reference
        to an old
        > > VAX/VMS and UNIX program used to maintain mailing lists. (Notice
        the "ER"
        > > for List Server is missing because data file and program names
        were
        > > limited to eight characters.)
        > >
        > > Members receive "postings" from each other via e-mail, or you can
        elect to
        > > read the postings on Yahoo, where an archive of all posts since
        1999
        > > resides. Most members select to read via the Yahoo web page, due
        to the
        > > volume of posts.
        > >
        > > 1.1 Purpose
        > >
        > > This mailing list is a community interested in existentialism,
        > > phenomenology, and philosophy in general. The primary purpose is
        to
        > > explore Continental schools of thought, as opposed to Analytical
        > > Philosophy. Yes, Sartre, Nietzsche, and Kierkegaard, but also
        many others:
        > > Frankl, May, Jaspers, and Merleau-Ponty to name a few. This list
        > > encourages questions and exchanges of information. We want to
        know about
        > > the latest literature, articles, book releases, and more. Feel
        free to
        > > post book or film recommendations, in addition to questions on
        > > philosophical texts.
        > >
        > > 1.2 History
        > >
        > > The list was started in the late 1980s on the BITNET. It moved to
        FidoNet
        > > in 1992, then to OneList, eGroups, and finally landing at its
        current home
        > > on Yahoo Groups by 1999. The group pre-dates the creation of the
        > > Existential Primer Web site. The site was created in November,
        1996, and
        > > has been expanding ever since.
        > >
        > > 1.3 URLs for the Exist List
        > >
        > > The mailing list URL is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > >
        > > The Official homepage URL is: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist. I
        maintain
        > > the "Existential Primer" at the preceding URL. It is only a
        primer, not an
        > > all-inclusive look at existentialism, phenomenology, and
        Continental
        > > philosophy. Members and potential members of the Exist List are
        encouraged
        > > to visit the Existential Primer on a regular basis to offer
        suggestions,
        > > corrections, and possible additions.
        > >
        > > 1.4 Founder and Moderators
        > >
        > > I (C. S. Wyatt) founded the list at a time when the Internet was
        still too
        > > "academic" in many ways. My goal was to make philosophical
        discussions
        > > open to everyone, not merely graduate students and professors. I
        am a
        > > reader and writer interested in philosophy. As for academic
        credentials...
        > > I'm working on them. I have undergraduate degrees in English and
        > > journalism; I am currently completing a masters degree in
        composition and
        > > rhetoric. I plan to pursue a doctorate in rhetoric. (Yes, I am
        belatedly
        > > pursuing the graduate education. Life is like that.)
        > >
        > > Is this group actively moderated? Ideally, no, but there are
        times when we
        > > must intervene. Moderators vary over time and may be located via
        the Yahoo
        > > page.
        > >
        > > 1.5 What are the rules of the list?
        > >
        > > No personal attacks. No lengthy discussions of specific religious
        issues
        > > (take those to other lists, please). No strong profanity (you
        know which
        > > words those would be). Be polite, and try to keep discussions on
        the topic
        > > of philosophy as much as possible.
        > >
        > > The list does not function if you "flood" the list with off-topic
        posts,
        > > personal messages, or more than five posts during a single 24-
        hour period.
        > >
        > > 1.5.1 No personal attacks
        > >
        > > We want this group to remain polite and inviting. Be polite. If
        you
        > > disagree with someone, explain your reasons without insulting the
        other
        > > individual personally.
        > >
        > > 1.5.2 No lengthy discussions of specific religious issues
        > >
        > > Long discussions of specific religious issues belong in other
        mailing
        > > lists, not here. Christian Existentialism is a valid point of
        discussion,
        > > as are philosophers within that grouping, but we do not want this
        list to
        > > be dominated by discussions of Christianity. Sartre, Camus,
        Nietzsche, and
        > > many others were not Christians. There is room for all topics,
        but not for
        > > dwelling on one branch of existentialism.
        > >
        > > 1.5.3 No profanity
        > >
        > > This list is used by students. We expect proper behavior.
        > >
        > > 1.5.4 No "flooding" the group with posts
        > >
        > > We ask that members limit their posts to five per day, with a
        maximum of
        > > ten during an active exchange. Members posting too often appear
        to be
        > > "shouting" at the group. Dominating a group causes others to
        leave, as
        > > when one person dominates a dinner party. Share the floor, as it
        were, and
        > > help us encourage participation by as many members as possible.
        Do not
        > > "hog" space on the list -- it is poor form. If people are not
        responding
        > > to a topic you suggest, give them time. Not everyone can read the
        list
        > > daily, so be patient. This is not a chat room, it is a mailing
        list.
        > >
        > > 2.0 List Topics
        > >
        > > New or potential members should read our Official Homepage:
        > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist. After reading the homepage, then
        try to
        > > remain on topic. Topics allowed include existentialism,
        phenomenology, and
        > > Continental philosophy. Any philosophical discussion is welcomed
        as long
        > > as it takes the topic seriously and encourages an exchange of
        ideas.
        > > Current philosophy is a frequent topic, especially post-modernism.
        > >
        > > 2.1 Existentialism Defined
        > >
        > > Visit http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/elexicon.html for a list of
        > > definitions and a complete lexicon used by academics when
        discussing
        > > existentialism.
        > >
        > > 2.1.1 Merriam-Webster Online
        > >
        > > http://www.m-w.com
        > >
        > > ex·is·ten·tial·ism. Pronunciation: -'ten(t)-sh&-"li-z&m. noun. A
        chiefly
        > > 20th century philosophical movement embracing diverse doctrines
        but
        > > centering on analysis of individual existence in an unfathomable
        universe
        > > and the plight of the individual who must assume ultimate
        responsibility
        > > for his acts of free will without any certain knowledge of what
        is right
        > > or wrong or good or bad
        > >
        > > 2.1.2 Webster's New World Dictionary, Second College Edition.
        > >
        > > William Collins Publishers, Inc.; Cleveland, Ohio; 1979
        > >
        > > The doctrine that existence takes precedence over essence and
        holding that
        > > man is totally free and responsible for his acts. This
        responsibility is
        > > the source of dread and anguish that encompass mankind.
        > >
        > > 2.1.3 American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third
        Edition.
        > >
        > > Houghton Mifflin Company, 1992
        > >
        > > A philosophy that emphasizes the uniqueness and isolation of the
        > > individual experience in a hostile or indifferent universe,
        regards human
        > > existence as unexplainable, and stresses freedom of choice and
        > > responsibility for the consequences of one's acts.
        > >
        > > 2.1.4 Britannica Concise Encyclopedia.
        > >
        > > April 20, 2003, from Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service.
        > > http://www.britannica.com/
        > >
        > > Philosophical movement oriented toward two major themes, the
        analysis of
        > > human existence and the centrality of human choice.
        Existentialism's chief
        > > theoretical energies are thus devoted to questions about ontology
        and
        > > decision. It traces its roots to the writings of Soren
        Kierkegaard and
        > > Friedrich Nietzsche. As a philosophy of human existence,
        existentialism
        > > found its best 20th-century exponent in Karl Jaspers; as a
        philosophy of
        > > human decision, its foremost representative was J.P. Sartre.
        Sartre finds
        > > the essence of human existence in freedom-in the duty of
        > > self-determination and the freedom of choice -- and therefore
        spends much
        > > time describing the human tendency toward "bad faith," reflected
        in
        > > humanity's perverse attempts to deny its own responsibility and
        flee from
        > > the truth of its inescapable freedom.
        > >
        > > 2.1.5 World Book Multimedia Encyclopedia.
        > >
        > > World Book, Inc, 2001
        > >
        > > Existentialism, pronounced ehg zihs TEHN shuh lihz uhm, is a
        philosophical
        > > movement that developed in continental Europe during the 1800's
        and
        > > 1900's. The movement is called existentialism because most of its
        members
        > > are primarily interested in the nature of existence or being, by
        which
        > > they usually mean human existence. Although the philosophers
        generally
        > > considered to be existentialists often disagree with each other
        and
        > > sometimes even resent being classified together, they have been
        grouped
        > > together because they share many problems, interests, and ideas.
        > >
        > > The most prominent existentialist thinkers of the 1900's include
        the
        > > French writers Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre, and Gabriel
        Marcel; the
        > > German philosophers Karl Jaspers and Martin Heidegger; the
        Russian
        > > religious and political thinker Nicolas Berdyaev; and the Jewish
        > > philosopher Martin Buber.
        > >
        > > 2.1.6 World Book, New York Times Dictionary.
        > >
        > > World Book, Inc., 2001
        > >
        > > existentialism, noun.
        > > a philosophy holding that reality consists of living and that man
        makes
        > > himself what he is and is responsible personally only to himself
        for what
        > > he makes himself. Modern existentialism was developed by a group
        of
        > > contemporary writers, such as Gabriel Marcel, Karl Jaspers, and
        especially
        > > Jean Paul Sartre, out of the works of Soren Kierkegaard,
        Friedrich
        > > Nietzsche, and other existentialist philosophers and writers of
        the
        > > 1800's. Existentialism, as expounded by Sartre, is not
        pessimistic in the
        > > nihilist sense, but is a doctrine of fortitude and even hope.
        > >
        > > 2.1.7 The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.
        > >
        > > Columbia University Press, 2002.
        > > http://www.bartleby.com/65/ex/existentism.html
        > >
        > > (gzstn´shlzm, ks-) any of several philosophic systems, all
        centered on the
        > > individual and his relationship to the universe or to God.
        Important
        > > existentialists of varying and conflicting thought are Søren
        Kierkegaard,
        > > Karl Jaspers, Martin Heidegger, Gabriel Marcel, and Jean-Paul
        Sartre. All
        > > revolt against the traditional metaphysical approaches to man and
        his
        > > place in the universe. Thinkers such as St. Thomas Aquinas,
        Blaise Pascal,
        > > and Friedrich Nietzsche have been called existentialists, but it
        is more
        > > accurate to place the beginnings of the movement with Kierkegaard.
        > >
        > > Sartre was the only self-declared existentialist among the major
        thinkers.
        > > For him the central idea of all existential thought is that
        existence
        > > precedes essence. For Sartre there is no God and therefore no
        fixed human
        > > nature that forces one to act. Man is totally free and entirely
        > > responsible for what he makes of himself. It is this freedom and
        > > responsibility that, as for Kierkegaard, is the source of man's
        dread.
        > >
        > > 2.2 Phenomenology
        > >
        > > 2.2.1 Merriam-Webster Online
        > >
        > > http://www.m-w.com
        > >
        > > phe·nom·e·nol·o·gy. Pronunciation: fi-"nä-m&-'nä-l&-jE. noun.
        circa 1797
        > > Etymology: German Phänomenologie, from Phänomenon phenomenon
        > > + -logie -logy
        > >
        > > 1: the study of the development of human consciousness and self-
        awareness
        > > as a preface to philosophy or a part of philosophy. Experience
        usually is
        > > considered over science, senses over objective reality due to how
        we
        > > acquire knowledge.
        > >
        > > 2 (a) A philosophical movement that describes the formal
        structure of the
        > > objects of awareness and of awareness itself in abstraction from
        any
        > > claims concerning existence. The typological classification of a
        class of
        > > phenomena <the phenomenology of religion> (b) An analysis
        produced by
        > > phenomenological investigation
        > >
        > > 3.0 More Information
        > >
        > > Neither the Exist List nor my Web site offers enough information
        for even
        > > a beginning study of existentialism. Members of the list are
        encouraged to
        > > explore and learn via the web and via the wonders of printed
        pages.
        > >
        > > 3.1 Official List Pages
        > >
        > > The Existential Primer currently features profiles on the
        following
        > > writers/philosophers: de Beauvoir, Camus, Dostoevsky, Hegel,
        Heidegger,
        > > Husserl, Jaspers, Kafka, Kierkegaard, Merleau-Ponty, Nietzsche,
        Sartre,
        > > and several others in progress, too. The pages are works in
        progress. See
        > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/index.html on a regular basis for
        updates.
        > > For a non-framed version, visit
        http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/exist.html
        > >
        > > 3.2 Visit the Yahoo Page
        > >
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > >
        > > The Yahoo page and my page include links to other philosophy
        sites,
        > > databases for research, and even a live chat option.
        > >
        > >
        > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
        nothing!
        > >
        > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date:
        8/31/2006
        > >
        >
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        Thanks. WS ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
          Thanks.

          WS

          In a message dated 9/1/06 2:21:49 AM, existlist@yahoogroups.com writes:


          > ExistList FAQ
          >
          > Last Updated: 01-Jan-2005
          >
          > Contents
          > 1.0    The List
          > 1.1    The list's purpose
          > 1.2    History
          > 1.3    URLs for the list
          > 1.4    Founder and moderators
          > 1.5    Rules
          > 2.0    Topics Discussed
          > 2.1    Existentialism
          > 2.2    Phenomenology
          > 3.0    More Information
          > 3.1    Official Exist List pages
          > 3.2    Yahoo Homepage
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Albert
          Hi Mary, All this time I ve been assuming that there has been some sort of technical problem with the group... Whatever has been emphasized or not, it seems to
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
            Hi Mary,

            All this time I've been assuming that there has been some sort of technical problem with the group...
            Whatever has been emphasized or not, it seems to me to be quite tragic that the response has been so apathetic. As has been commented, psychology and existentialism cannot be separated and I for one find it difficult to believe that these "connections" need to be demonstrated to the extent which you imply, though your statement seems based on clear observation.

            To what extent do you think that the relationship between psychology and existentialism needs to be debated ? I seem to remember Louise separating the two some time ago and found this difficult to digest.

            Albert.




            ----- Original Message -----
            From: two_owl_night
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:48 PM
            Subject: [existlist] properly


            Yes, Albert. Help us get back on track. We've probably been
            emphasizing psychological aspects of existentialism without overtly
            demonstrating the connections. It's difficult to read between the
            lines but often that's where existential themes spell themselves out.

            Mary

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert" <al_d@...> wrote:
            >
            > This list is not working properly, now for the last 2 months...
            >
            > Albert.
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:20 AM
            > Subject: [existlist] File - FAQ
            >
            >
            > >
            > > ExistList FAQ
            > >
            > > Last Updated: 01-Jan-2005
            > >
            > > Contents
            > > 1.0 The List
            > > 1.1 The list's purpose
            > > 1.2 History
            > > 1.3 URLs for the list
            > > 1.4 Founder and moderators
            > > 1.5 Rules
            > > 2.0 Topics Discussed
            > > 2.1 Existentialism
            > > 2.2 Phenomenology
            > > 3.0 More Information
            > > 3.1 Official Exist List pages
            > > 3.2 Yahoo Homepage
            > >
            > >
            > > 1.0 The Exist List
            > >
            > > The Exist List is a "mailing list server" hosted on Yahoo Groups.
            The
            > > experienced Internet users prefer the term LISTSERV, a reference
            to an old
            > > VAX/VMS and UNIX program used to maintain mailing lists. (Notice
            the "ER"
            > > for List Server is missing because data file and program names
            were
            > > limited to eight characters.)
            > >
            > > Members receive "postings" from each other via e-mail, or you can
            elect to
            > > read the postings on Yahoo, where an archive of all posts since
            1999
            > > resides. Most members select to read via the Yahoo web page, due
            to the
            > > volume of posts.
            > >
            > > 1.1 Purpose
            > >
            > > This mailing list is a community interested in existentialism,
            > > phenomenology, and philosophy in general. The primary purpose is
            to
            > > explore Continental schools of thought, as opposed to Analytical
            > > Philosophy. Yes, Sartre, Nietzsche, and Kierkegaard, but also
            many others:
            > > Frankl, May, Jaspers, and Merleau-Ponty to name a few. This list
            > > encourages questions and exchanges of information. We want to
            know about
            > > the latest literature, articles, book releases, and more. Feel
            free to
            > > post book or film recommendations, in addition to questions on
            > > philosophical texts.
            > >
            > > 1.2 History
            > >
            > > The list was started in the late 1980s on the BITNET. It moved to
            FidoNet
            > > in 1992, then to OneList, eGroups, and finally landing at its
            current home
            > > on Yahoo Groups by 1999. The group pre-dates the creation of the
            > > Existential Primer Web site. The site was created in November,
            1996, and
            > > has been expanding ever since.
            > >
            > > 1.3 URLs for the Exist List
            > >
            > > The mailing list URL is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > >
            > > The Official homepage URL is: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist. I
            maintain
            > > the "Existential Primer" at the preceding URL. It is only a
            primer, not an
            > > all-inclusive look at existentialism, phenomenology, and
            Continental
            > > philosophy. Members and potential members of the Exist List are
            encouraged
            > > to visit the Existential Primer on a regular basis to offer
            suggestions,
            > > corrections, and possible additions.
            > >
            > > 1.4 Founder and Moderators
            > >
            > > I (C. S. Wyatt) founded the list at a time when the Internet was
            still too
            > > "academic" in many ways. My goal was to make philosophical
            discussions
            > > open to everyone, not merely graduate students and professors. I
            am a
            > > reader and writer interested in philosophy. As for academic
            credentials...
            > > I'm working on them. I have undergraduate degrees in English and
            > > journalism; I am currently completing a masters degree in
            composition and
            > > rhetoric. I plan to pursue a doctorate in rhetoric. (Yes, I am
            belatedly
            > > pursuing the graduate education. Life is like that.)
            > >
            > > Is this group actively moderated? Ideally, no, but there are
            times when we
            > > must intervene. Moderators vary over time and may be located via
            the Yahoo
            > > page.
            > >
            > > 1.5 What are the rules of the list?
            > >
            > > No personal attacks. No lengthy discussions of specific religious
            issues
            > > (take those to other lists, please). No strong profanity (you
            know which
            > > words those would be). Be polite, and try to keep discussions on
            the topic
            > > of philosophy as much as possible.
            > >
            > > The list does not function if you "flood" the list with off-topic
            posts,
            > > personal messages, or more than five posts during a single 24-
            hour period.
            > >
            > > 1.5.1 No personal attacks
            > >
            > > We want this group to remain polite and inviting. Be polite. If
            you
            > > disagree with someone, explain your reasons without insulting the
            other
            > > individual personally.
            > >
            > > 1.5.2 No lengthy discussions of specific religious issues
            > >
            > > Long discussions of specific religious issues belong in other
            mailing
            > > lists, not here. Christian Existentialism is a valid point of
            discussion,
            > > as are philosophers within that grouping, but we do not want this
            list to
            > > be dominated by discussions of Christianity. Sartre, Camus,
            Nietzsche, and
            > > many others were not Christians. There is room for all topics,
            but not for
            > > dwelling on one branch of existentialism.
            > >
            > > 1.5.3 No profanity
            > >
            > > This list is used by students. We expect proper behavior.
            > >
            > > 1.5.4 No "flooding" the group with posts
            > >
            > > We ask that members limit their posts to five per day, with a
            maximum of
            > > ten during an active exchange. Members posting too often appear
            to be
            > > "shouting" at the group. Dominating a group causes others to
            leave, as
            > > when one person dominates a dinner party. Share the floor, as it
            were, and
            > > help us encourage participation by as many members as possible.
            Do not
            > > "hog" space on the list -- it is poor form. If people are not
            responding
            > > to a topic you suggest, give them time. Not everyone can read the
            list
            > > daily, so be patient. This is not a chat room, it is a mailing
            list.
            > >
            > > 2.0 List Topics
            > >
            > > New or potential members should read our Official Homepage:
            > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist. After reading the homepage, then
            try to
            > > remain on topic. Topics allowed include existentialism,
            phenomenology, and
            > > Continental philosophy. Any philosophical discussion is welcomed
            as long
            > > as it takes the topic seriously and encourages an exchange of
            ideas.
            > > Current philosophy is a frequent topic, especially post-modernism.
            > >
            > > 2.1 Existentialism Defined
            > >
            > > Visit http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/elexicon.html for a list of
            > > definitions and a complete lexicon used by academics when
            discussing
            > > existentialism.
            > >
            > > 2.1.1 Merriam-Webster Online
            > >
            > > http://www.m-w.com
            > >
            > > ex·is·ten·tial·ism. Pronunciation: -'ten(t)-sh&-"li-z&m. noun. A
            chiefly
            > > 20th century philosophical movement embracing diverse doctrines
            but
            > > centering on analysis of individual existence in an unfathomable
            universe
            > > and the plight of the individual who must assume ultimate
            responsibility
            > > for his acts of free will without any certain knowledge of what
            is right
            > > or wrong or good or bad
            > >
            > > 2.1.2 Webster's New World Dictionary, Second College Edition.
            > >
            > > William Collins Publishers, Inc.; Cleveland, Ohio; 1979
            > >
            > > The doctrine that existence takes precedence over essence and
            holding that
            > > man is totally free and responsible for his acts. This
            responsibility is
            > > the source of dread and anguish that encompass mankind.
            > >
            > > 2.1.3 American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third
            Edition.
            > >
            > > Houghton Mifflin Company, 1992
            > >
            > > A philosophy that emphasizes the uniqueness and isolation of the
            > > individual experience in a hostile or indifferent universe,
            regards human
            > > existence as unexplainable, and stresses freedom of choice and
            > > responsibility for the consequences of one's acts.
            > >
            > > 2.1.4 Britannica Concise Encyclopedia.
            > >
            > > April 20, 2003, from Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service.
            > > http://www.britannica.com/
            > >
            > > Philosophical movement oriented toward two major themes, the
            analysis of
            > > human existence and the centrality of human choice.
            Existentialism's chief
            > > theoretical energies are thus devoted to questions about ontology
            and
            > > decision. It traces its roots to the writings of Soren
            Kierkegaard and
            > > Friedrich Nietzsche. As a philosophy of human existence,
            existentialism
            > > found its best 20th-century exponent in Karl Jaspers; as a
            philosophy of
            > > human decision, its foremost representative was J.P. Sartre.
            Sartre finds
            > > the essence of human existence in freedom-in the duty of
            > > self-determination and the freedom of choice -- and therefore
            spends much
            > > time describing the human tendency toward "bad faith," reflected
            in
            > > humanity's perverse attempts to deny its own responsibility and
            flee from
            > > the truth of its inescapable freedom.
            > >
            > > 2.1.5 World Book Multimedia Encyclopedia.
            > >
            > > World Book, Inc, 2001
            > >
            > > Existentialism, pronounced ehg zihs TEHN shuh lihz uhm, is a
            philosophical
            > > movement that developed in continental Europe during the 1800's
            and
            > > 1900's. The movement is called existentialism because most of its
            members
            > > are primarily interested in the nature of existence or being, by
            which
            > > they usually mean human existence. Although the philosophers
            generally
            > > considered to be existentialists often disagree with each other
            and
            > > sometimes even resent being classified together, they have been
            grouped
            > > together because they share many problems, interests, and ideas.
            > >
            > > The most prominent existentialist thinkers of the 1900's include
            the
            > > French writers Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre, and Gabriel
            Marcel; the
            > > German philosophers Karl Jaspers and Martin Heidegger; the
            Russian
            > > religious and political thinker Nicolas Berdyaev; and the Jewish
            > > philosopher Martin Buber.
            > >
            > > 2.1.6 World Book, New York Times Dictionary.
            > >
            > > World Book, Inc., 2001
            > >
            > > existentialism, noun.
            > > a philosophy holding that reality consists of living and that man
            makes
            > > himself what he is and is responsible personally only to himself
            for what
            > > he makes himself. Modern existentialism was developed by a group
            of
            > > contemporary writers, such as Gabriel Marcel, Karl Jaspers, and
            especially
            > > Jean Paul Sartre, out of the works of Soren Kierkegaard,
            Friedrich
            > > Nietzsche, and other existentialist philosophers and writers of
            the
            > > 1800's. Existentialism, as expounded by Sartre, is not
            pessimistic in the
            > > nihilist sense, but is a doctrine of fortitude and even hope.
            > >
            > > 2.1.7 The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.
            > >
            > > Columbia University Press, 2002.
            > > http://www.bartleby.com/65/ex/existentism.html
            > >
            > > (gzstn´shlzm, ks-) any of several philosophic systems, all
            centered on the
            > > individual and his relationship to the universe or to God.
            Important
            > > existentialists of varying and conflicting thought are Søren
            Kierkegaard,
            > > Karl Jaspers, Martin Heidegger, Gabriel Marcel, and Jean-Paul
            Sartre. All
            > > revolt against the traditional metaphysical approaches to man and
            his
            > > place in the universe. Thinkers such as St. Thomas Aquinas,
            Blaise Pascal,
            > > and Friedrich Nietzsche have been called existentialists, but it
            is more
            > > accurate to place the beginnings of the movement with Kierkegaard.
            > >
            > > Sartre was the only self-declared existentialist among the major
            thinkers.
            > > For him the central idea of all existential thought is that
            existence
            > > precedes essence. For Sartre there is no God and therefore no
            fixed human
            > > nature that forces one to act. Man is totally free and entirely
            > > responsible for what he makes of himself. It is this freedom and
            > > responsibility that, as for Kierkegaard, is the source of man's
            dread.
            > >
            > > 2.2 Phenomenology
            > >
            > > 2.2.1 Merriam-Webster Online
            > >
            > > http://www.m-w.com
            > >
            > > phe·nom·e·nol·o·gy. Pronunciation: fi-"nä-m&-'nä-l&-jE. noun.
            circa 1797
            > > Etymology: German Phänomenologie, from Phänomenon phenomenon
            > > + -logie -logy
            > >
            > > 1: the study of the development of human consciousness and self-
            awareness
            > > as a preface to philosophy or a part of philosophy. Experience
            usually is
            > > considered over science, senses over objective reality due to how
            we
            > > acquire knowledge.
            > >
            > > 2 (a) A philosophical movement that describes the formal
            structure of the
            > > objects of awareness and of awareness itself in abstraction from
            any
            > > claims concerning existence. The typological classification of a
            class of
            > > phenomena <the phenomenology of religion> (b) An analysis
            produced by
            > > phenomenological investigation
            > >
            > > 3.0 More Information
            > >
            > > Neither the Exist List nor my Web site offers enough information
            for even
            > > a beginning study of existentialism. Members of the list are
            encouraged to
            > > explore and learn via the web and via the wonders of printed
            pages.
            > >
            > > 3.1 Official List Pages
            > >
            > > The Existential Primer currently features profiles on the
            following
            > > writers/philosophers: de Beauvoir, Camus, Dostoevsky, Hegel,
            Heidegger,
            > > Husserl, Jaspers, Kafka, Kierkegaard, Merleau-Ponty, Nietzsche,
            Sartre,
            > > and several others in progress, too. The pages are works in
            progress. See
            > > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/index.html on a regular basis for
            updates.
            > > For a non-framed version, visit
            http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/exist.html
            > >
            > > 3.2 Visit the Yahoo Page
            > >
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > >
            > > The Yahoo page and my page include links to other philosophy
            sites,
            > > databases for research, and even a live chat option.
            > >
            > >
            > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
            nothing!
            > >
            > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date:
            8/31/2006
            > >
            >






            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: 8/31/2006


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • two_owl_night
            ... To what extent do you think that the relationship between psychology and existentialism needs to be debated ? I seem to remember Louise separating the two
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert" <al_d@...> wrote:

              To what extent do you think that the relationship between psychology and
              existentialism needs to be debated ? I seem to remember Louise
              separating the two some time ago and found this difficult to digest.


              This subject is simmering on my back burner. I suspect that Louise is
              preparing in her own way as well. Perhaps over this extended weekend,
              it will appear in full banquet glory for all to savor and spice
              accordingly, and in good cheer. Anon . . .

              Mary
            • louise
              ... psychology and ... digest. ... is ... weekend, ... Hmm, well, more like recuperation than preparation, though have been reading various authors of late,
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "two_owl_night"
                <two_owl_night@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert" <al_d@> wrote:
                >
                > To what extent do you think that the relationship between
                psychology and
                > existentialism needs to be debated ? I seem to remember Louise
                > separating the two some time ago and found this difficult to
                digest.
                >
                >
                > This subject is simmering on my back burner. I suspect that Louise
                is
                > preparing in her own way as well. Perhaps over this extended
                weekend,
                > it will appear in full banquet glory for all to savor and spice
                > accordingly, and in good cheer. Anon . . .
                >
                > Mary


                Hmm, well, more like recuperation than preparation, though have been
                reading various authors of late, familiar and forgotten, in quest of
                inspiration and remembrance. I am definitely at first base with all
                this stuff, though. Have been waiting a long time for discussion to
                start. Fine, if we may invoke philosophy, psychology, psychiatry,
                law, and so on. How may intelligent debate flourish, however, if
                words such as 'nut', 'witch' or 'loonie' are tossed into the mix?
                My marathon endurance stint in this regard may at long last be
                yielding a little more power of resistance and restraint. Instead
                of firing off yet another irate e-mail, when knocked backward by
                sheer indifferent ignorance from the self-confidently sane and well-
                adjusted, I learn to mutter darkly at the screen, waiting for
                lucidity from other sources.

                Louise
                ... still refining Nooism
                >
              • two_owl_night
                ... however, if words such as nut , witch or loonie are tossed into the mix? My marathon endurance stint in this regard may at long last be yielding a
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:

                  however, if words such as 'nut', 'witch' or 'loonie' are tossed into
                  the mix? My marathon endurance stint in this regard may at long last
                  be yielding a little more power of resistance and restraint. Instead
                  of firing off yet another irate e-mail, when knocked backward by
                  sheer indifferent ignorance from the self-confidently sane and well-
                  adjusted, I learn to mutter darkly at the screen, waiting for
                  lucidity from other sources.


                  Just a quick note, Louise. We sensitive types need to develop thick
                  skins or risk sinking into a slough of despond or passive-aggressive
                  cycles. I've often thought you could contribute greatly to Christian
                  Existential discussion groups and poetry forums. Googling another
                  subject the other day I found Lee Edgar Tyler where 'gypsy scholars'
                  much like yourself share their expertise with translations of
                  critical texts.

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/crosstalk2/
                  http://ntgateway.com/xtalk/

                  You are also welcome to join our Company of Poets, where I can almost
                  assure you, no one will throw stones.

                  http://www.mailspaces.com/spaces/companyofpoets/

                  You have much to contribute here as well. Don't let the vacuous drive
                  you away. I agree with Sartre's defense of existentialism wherein he
                  argues that atheists aren't void of ethics or capable of formulating
                  them in a dearth of certainties.

                  Mary
                • Jeff Cunningham
                  The answer you are search for ? There is a new global war being fought. This war uses all the tools you have listed. This new global war is for your mind. Do
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 2, 2006
                    The answer you are search for ? There is a new
                    global war being fought. This war uses all the tools
                    you have listed. This new global war is for your mind.
                    Do you feel like someone is trying to brain wash you?
                    Maybe....

                    --- louise <hecubatoher@...> wrote:

                    > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "two_owl_night"
                    > <two_owl_night@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert" <al_d@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > To what extent do you think that the relationship
                    > between
                    > psychology and
                    > > existentialism needs to be debated ? I seem to
                    > remember Louise
                    > > separating the two some time ago and found this
                    > difficult to
                    > digest.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > This subject is simmering on my back burner. I
                    > suspect that Louise
                    > is
                    > > preparing in her own way as well. Perhaps over
                    > this extended
                    > weekend,
                    > > it will appear in full banquet glory for all to
                    > savor and spice
                    > > accordingly, and in good cheer. Anon . . .
                    > >
                    > > Mary
                    >
                    >
                    > Hmm, well, more like recuperation than preparation,
                    > though have been
                    > reading various authors of late, familiar and
                    > forgotten, in quest of
                    > inspiration and remembrance. I am definitely at
                    > first base with all
                    > this stuff, though. Have been waiting a long time
                    > for discussion to
                    > start. Fine, if we may invoke philosophy,
                    > psychology, psychiatry,
                    > law, and so on. How may intelligent debate
                    > flourish, however, if
                    > words such as 'nut', 'witch' or 'loonie' are tossed
                    > into the mix?
                    > My marathon endurance stint in this regard may at
                    > long last be
                    > yielding a little more power of resistance and
                    > restraint. Instead
                    > of firing off yet another irate e-mail, when knocked
                    > backward by
                    > sheer indifferent ignorance from the
                    > self-confidently sane and well-
                    > adjusted, I learn to mutter darkly at the screen,
                    > waiting for
                    > lucidity from other sources.
                    >
                    > Louise
                    > ... still refining Nooism
                    > >
                    >
                    >
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