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  • bhvwd
    Everybody can throw hard then some few can throw hard and straight. They become pitchers. Some few learn to throw fast with rotational spin. They become good
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 26, 2006
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      Everybody can throw hard then some few can throw hard and straight.
      They become pitchers. Some few learn to throw fast with rotational
      spin. They become good pitchers. Very few learn to throw slowly and
      accurately. They are actors who set people up for the downs.
      Personally I didn`t care what junk some guy threw at me but if you
      hit me I would get you. You might as well have headed to the parking
      lot to fight me, we were going to have contact of a violent nature. I
      broke this left handers leg at the plate. He wouldn`t speak to me
      again, I didn`t blame him.
      If you set people up you will see the back of the hand. I think
      these old mores to be substantial upgrades from the old biblical
      revenge mode. You treat people like they would be treated on the
      street. A good king will be cheered in the street and a bad king will
      be stoned. As Chris says a bland person will be ignored.
      I have given up throwing at people, perhaps I am too old for the
      parking lot. If I throw at you it will be slow and with warning. You
      can hit it out of the park on me. At least that way you keep it on
      the field. Bill
    • Knott
      ... You sucked me in with a baseball analogy. ... Throwing was my thing in high school. I threw everything...chairs, erasers, chalk, and baseballs. Some of my
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 26, 2006
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        > Everybody can throw hard then some few can throw hard and straight.
        > They become pitchers.

        You sucked me in with a baseball analogy.

        > we were going to have contact of a violent nature.

        Throwing was my thing in high school. I threw everything...chairs, erasers, chalk, and
        baseballs. Some of my most keen memories (or they seem that way) are from the field.
        There were many...one with this guy who had a pot-belly and edged in so close to the
        plate that the stomach stuck over the plate; I hit him with the ball twice in a row, but
        because he was blocking the plate it was a strike each time. Another who had taunted me
        on the bases his previous atbat and at the plate, who I nailed on the side of his knee and
        took him out for the game. One just for fun that I pegged in the back going into third all
        the way from right field on a foul ball after he'd tried incessantly to cheat-tag me with a
        hidden ball.

        It was in competition, where the stakes were generally low, but the challenge was high. It
        was competition where you played out who got the best of whom...a little ruse. Mostly the
        challenge was with myself, but the stage was set by the taunting, and it was pittiful to
        follow up on it.

        My style was straight forward, almost reactionary...and it seems I am that way still. Drawn
        by the competition, and feeling like i need to right what's wrong...but knowing it won't
        accomplish anything. Perhaps your style is more clever -- at least for me -- because I see
        from it, and not my own.

        Gazing at Bill Lighthouse
      • darkening th
        ... Why ??!!
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 28, 2006
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          --- "Knott" <knott12@...> wrote:
          >

          >
          > Throwing was my thing in high school. I threw everything...


          Why ??!!
        • Knott
          ... The natural answer is why not? I still throw things. It is a private contest--a personal challenge. You might ask others why they attend a gun club...I
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 29, 2006
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            > > Throwing was my thing in high school. I threw everything...
            >
            > Why ??!!

            The natural answer is 'why not?'

            I still throw things. It is a private contest--a personal challenge.
            You might ask others why they attend a gun club...I have target
            practice. Completely harmless. Mostly I shoot for garbage pails. The
            ball field was a different story, and in HS it was a distraction.

            Why ask the question?

            Knott Twiddling
          • eupraxis@aol.com
            Knott interested. ... From: knott12@lycos.com To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 8:56 AM Subject: [existlist] Re: Change down ... The natural
            Message 5 of 29 , Aug 29, 2006
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              Knott interested.
              -----Original Message-----
              From: knott12@...
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 8:56 AM
              Subject: [existlist] Re: Change down

              > > Throwing was my thing in high school. I threw everything...
              >
              > Why ??!!

              The natural answer is 'why not?'

              I still throw things. It is a private contest--a personal challenge.
              You might ask others why they attend a gun club...I have target
              practice. Completely harmless. Mostly I shoot for garbage pails. The
              ball field was a different story, and in HS it was a distraction.

              Why ask the question?

              Knott Twiddling


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            • Knott
              ... Who Cares
              Message 6 of 29 , Aug 29, 2006
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                > Knott interested.

                Who Cares
              • eupraxis@aol.com
                Get over yourself. ... From: knott12@lycos.com To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:40 AM Subject: [existlist] Re: Down ... Who Cares
                Message 7 of 29 , Aug 29, 2006
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                  Get over yourself.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: knott12@...
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:40 AM
                  Subject: [existlist] Re: Down

                  > Knott interested.

                  Who Cares


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                • Knott
                  ... So...your perspective is important in that you are not interested, but mine is not that I don t care for yours? Why is all your valuable verbiage only
                  Message 8 of 29 , Aug 29, 2006
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                    > > > Knott interested.
                    > > Who Cares
                    > Get over yourself.

                    So...your perspective is important in that you are not interested, but
                    mine is not that I don't care for yours? Why is all your valuable
                    verbiage only considered a one-way street?

                    I am curious as to which misinterpretation of what you think that I am
                    that you express that I should get over. Once I know, I'll make a best
                    effort.

                    Generally Pleasing
                  • eupraxis@aol.com
                    I guess the get over yourself line is generational or something. Not getting it, I see. Well, how s about this: your preoccupation with yourself is tiring
                    Message 9 of 29 , Aug 29, 2006
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                      I guess the "get over yourself" line is generational or something. Not getting it, I see. Well, how's about this: your preoccupation with yourself is tiring and boorish. Isn't there anything else in your universe besides your own ego? Or is that your take on, oh what is that word -- wait, it is coming to me -- has something to do with the group -- oh yeah, EXISTENTIALISM?


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: knott12@...
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:38 PM
                      Subject: [existlist] Re: own

                      > > > Knott interested.
                      > > Who Cares
                      > Get over yourself.

                      So...your perspective is important in that you are not interested, but
                      mine is not that I don't care for yours? Why is all your valuable
                      verbiage only considered a one-way street?

                      I am curious as to which misinterpretation of what you think that I am
                      that you express that I should get over. Once I know, I'll make a best
                      effort.

                      Generally Pleasing


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                    • louise
                      Doesn t what you read in the words have much to do with the kind of interest, the intellectual sympathy or aesthetic passion, that you do or don t feel? Knott
                      Message 10 of 29 , Aug 29, 2006
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                        Doesn't what you read in the words have much to do with the kind of
                        interest, the intellectual sympathy or aesthetic passion, that you
                        do or don't feel? Knott is a long-standing contributor here, though
                        there are often months together when he does not post. My
                        impression is not of a man who is preoccupied with his own ego, but
                        of a writer who remains aware of the complex interplay between
                        language and conscious life. The latter phrase is vague, or sounds
                        vague. The virtue of philosophy is to render us more knowing, more
                        being. This is turning into an unintended satire of Heideggerian
                        translation into English. Am I speaking of Dasein? Guess that I
                        might at least be asking the right man.

                        Louise

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
                        >
                        > I guess the "get over yourself" line is generational or
                        something. Not getting it, I see. Well, how's about this: your
                        preoccupation with yourself is tiring and boorish. Isn't there
                        anything else in your universe besides your own ego? Or is that your
                        take on, oh what is that word -- wait, it is coming to me -- has
                        something to do with the group -- oh yeah, EXISTENTIALISM?
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: knott12@...
                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:38 PM
                        > Subject: [existlist] Re: own
                        >
                        > > > > Knott interested.
                        > > > Who Cares
                        > > Get over yourself.
                        >
                        > So...your perspective is important in that you are not
                        interested, but
                        > mine is not that I don't care for yours? Why is all your valuable
                        > verbiage only considered a one-way street?
                        >
                        > I am curious as to which misinterpretation of what you think that
                        I am
                        > that you express that I should get over. Once I know, I'll make a
                        best
                        > effort.
                        >
                        > Generally Pleasing
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        _____________________________________________________________________
                        ___
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                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Knott
                        ... No. You see there is a real problem with seeing something from another vantage other than my own...even if I am trying to be sympathetic to a position. I
                        Message 11 of 29 , Aug 29, 2006
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                          > Isn't there anything else in your universe besides your own ego?

                          No. You see there is a real problem with seeing something from
                          another vantage other than my own...even if I am trying to be
                          sympathetic to a position. I believe I have mentioned that in other
                          postings--not that I would expect you to do insane research as you
                          have in collecting all TC posts, which are apparently brilliant --
                          but I am not sure I can prove that anything is but a figment of my
                          imagination, and I am not so confident as you as to my insight into
                          others. Why don't you have the same critique for TC? For some reason
                          that he sees everything from his perspective is fine...I am
                          wondering about the dichotomy. personally I don't know how anyone
                          can escape their own perspective.

                          You seem to think it is enough to slather out insults without
                          addressing anything and do so from a position of authority and
                          attempted intimidation from imagined superiority -- at least in your
                          presentation. It doesn't work. I also wonder why you should request
                          that I do so when you seem incapable of it yourself. I have asked
                          you questions, which you have not answered -- that is beling curious
                          as to your position. However, all you come back with are slants. You
                          taunt, but I should shut up and not taunt back, or even respond.

                          It is a curious desire but you are not pulling the strings...you
                          intend to intimidate, and it doesn't work, so it is me who is at
                          fault...interesting logic. I know someone on this list that shares
                          same that you revere. What a surprise.

                          Knott Quietly
                        • eupraxis@aol.com
                          First, just because TC and I both seem to dislike your style doesn t mean that we are joined at the hip. I only found out that he is a he, for example, during
                          Message 12 of 29 , Aug 29, 2006
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                            First, just because TC and I both seem to dislike your style doesn't mean that we are joined at the hip. I only found out that he is a he, for example, during that exchange. If you have a problem with me, please limit it to me. You are projecting all kinds of things on "me" that are probably more about you. But so much for my 50 minute hour.

                            Secondly, it seems to me that your biggest problem is with anyone saying anything to you that contradicts you. Sorry about that. Too bad, though.

                            And, what is it that I am supposed to be answering to you?

                            Finally, solopsism is not a very respected or defensible position. But I am guessing that you are just being coy about that.

                            WS

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: knott12@...
                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 4:21 PM
                            Subject: [existlist] Re: ow?

                            > Isn't there anything else in your universe besides your own ego?

                            No. You see there is a real problem with seeing something from
                            another vantage other than my own...even if I am trying to be
                            sympathetic to a position. I believe I have mentioned that in other
                            postings--not that I would expect you to do insane research as you
                            have in collecting all TC posts, which are apparently brilliant --
                            but I am not sure I can prove that anything is but a figment of my
                            imagination, and I am not so confident as you as to my insight into
                            others. Why don't you have the same critique for TC? For some reason
                            that he sees everything from his perspective is fine...I am
                            wondering about the dichotomy. personally I don't know how anyone
                            can escape their own perspective.

                            You seem to think it is enough to slather out insults without
                            addressing anything and do so from a position of authority and
                            attempted intimidation from imagined superiority -- at least in your
                            presentation. It doesn't work. I also wonder why you should request
                            that I do so when you seem incapable of it yourself. I have asked
                            you questions, which you have not answered -- that is beling curious
                            as to your position. However, all you come back with are slants. You
                            taunt, but I should shut up and not taunt back, or even respond.

                            It is a curious desire but you are not pulling the strings...you
                            intend to intimidate, and it doesn't work, so it is me who is at
                            fault...interesting logic. I know someone on this list that shares
                            same that you revere. What a surprise.

                            Knott Quietly


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                          • Trinidad Cruz
                            Knottreallythere Oh you knaughty thing let s just play the question game, then you can have your nuk and go to bed. You get ten questions. I get ten questions.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Aug 29, 2006
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                              Knottreallythere

                              Oh you knaughty thing let's just play the question game, then you can
                              have your nuk and go to bed. You get ten questions. I get ten
                              questions. We alternate. You go first. No answering questions with
                              questions. Replies and questions limited to ten words or less. No
                              commentary. If you reject a question I get one extra and vice versa.

                              tc
                            • Knott
                              ... I think you lack the capacity as I don t believe there is much that I say to contradict. Don t read that incorrectly; I don t think I say anything. That
                              Message 14 of 29 , Aug 30, 2006
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                                > it seems to me that your biggest problem is
                                > with anyone saying anything to you that
                                > contradicts you.

                                I think you lack the capacity as I don't believe there is much that
                                I say to contradict. Don't read that incorrectly; I don't think I
                                say anything. That you reply with taunts makes it seem as if you are
                                looking for a joust -- and when I fulfill your needs, you complain.

                                You are perhaps a little too hot to be on TCs team. I guess it is
                                alluring as he claims to always know.

                                > what is it that I am supposed to be answering to you?

                                It is those sentences that end with a '?'. You see I just did it...

                                > solopsism is not a very respected or defensible position.

                                a. I don't care about your respect.
                                b. It is completely defensible if you note a, but I think it is
                                completely defensible otherwise...

                                Breifly: how do I tell you from any other hallucination or
                                misiterpretation of my senses?

                                I assume error...it is you damned guys who always assume you know
                                everything that are irksome.

                                The Crowd
                              • Knott
                                ... I was going to ask why ten words or less as that really limits any detail and explication, but I assumed you d take that as a question...My guess is you
                                Message 15 of 29 , Aug 30, 2006
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                                  > Oh you knaughty thing let's just play the
                                  > question game...Replies and questions limited
                                  > to ten words or less.

                                  I was going to ask "why ten words or less" as that really limits any
                                  detail and explication, but I assumed you'd take that as a
                                  question...My guess is you won't want to keep your own rules in a
                                  moment...either that or it is an excuse to issue non-answers.

                                  Question:
                                  What is your plan for after the revolution?

                                  Thats One
                                • eupraxis@aol.com
                                  solipsism is not a very respected or defensible position. a. I don t care about your respect. b. It is completely defensible if you note a, but I think it
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Aug 30, 2006
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                                    "'solipsism is not a very respected or defensible position.'
                                    "a. I don't care about your respect. b. It is completely defensible if you note a, but I think it is completely defensible otherwise... Briefly: how do I tell you from any other hallucination or misinterpretation of my senses?"

                                    The "respect" I was referring to was that of the philosophical community at large. There is quite a lot on this topic, as I am sure you know. The counter-arguments go as far back as classical antiquity. I won't bore you with things you may already be familiar with. What I will say is that your counter-example above is more a case of radical skepticism than solipsism. A hallucination still presumes a false idea in lieu of the "world" that is still presupposed. A world is always presupposed.

                                    In that light, how does a solipsist explain the language with its wealth of references, if not for a real presupposed world? Therein, my charge of indefensibility.

                                    Modern phenomenology has offered the best (for me) treatment of the issue, especially Heidegger in B&T (circumspection, care. etc.). I would also contend that Hegel has as well.

                                    WS


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: knott12@...
                                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:14 AM
                                    Subject: [existlist] Re: o?

                                    > it seems to me that your biggest problem is
                                    > with anyone saying anything to you that
                                    > contradicts you.

                                    I think you lack the capacity as I don't believe there is much that
                                    I say to contradict. Don't read that incorrectly; I don't think I
                                    say anything. That you reply with taunts makes it seem as if you are
                                    looking for a joust -- and when I fulfill your needs, you complain.

                                    You are perhaps a little too hot to be on TCs team. I guess it is
                                    alluring as he claims to always know.

                                    > what is it that I am supposed to be answering to you?

                                    It is those sentences that end with a '?'. You see I just did it...

                                    > solopsism is not a very respected or defensible position.

                                    a. I don't care about your respect.
                                    b. It is completely defensible if you note a, but I think it is
                                    completely defensible otherwise...

                                    Breifly: how do I tell you from any other hallucination or
                                    misiterpretation of my senses?

                                    I assume error...it is you damned guys who always assume you know
                                    everything that are irksome.

                                    The Crowd


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                                  • Jeff Cunningham
                                    Think Ill take a nice long vacation to New Orleans. /10 words ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Aug 30, 2006
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                                      Think Ill take a nice long vacation to New Orleans.
                                      /10 words

                                      --- Knott <knott12@...> wrote:

                                      > > Oh you knaughty thing let's just play the
                                      > > question game...Replies and questions limited
                                      > > to ten words or less.
                                      >
                                      > I was going to ask "why ten words or less" as that
                                      > really limits any
                                      > detail and explication, but I assumed you'd take
                                      > that as a
                                      > question...My guess is you won't want to keep your
                                      > own rules in a
                                      > moment...either that or it is an excuse to issue
                                      > non-answers.
                                      >
                                      > Question:
                                      > What is your plan for after the revolution?
                                      >
                                      > Thats One
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


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                                    • eupraxis@aol.com
                                      If you do, look me up. WS ... From: cactusrockranch@yahoo.com To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: owow?/
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Aug 30, 2006
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                                        If you do, look me up.

                                        WS

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: cactusrockranch@...
                                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:57 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: owow?/ After The Revolution ?

                                        Think Ill take a nice long vacation to New Orleans.
                                        /10 words

                                        --- Knott <knott12@...> wrote:

                                        > > Oh you knaughty thing let's just play the
                                        > > question game...Replies and questions limited
                                        > > to ten words or less.
                                        >
                                        > I was going to ask "why ten words or less" as that
                                        > really limits any
                                        > detail and explication, but I assumed you'd take
                                        > that as a
                                        > question...My guess is you won't want to keep your
                                        > own rules in a
                                        > moment...either that or it is an excuse to issue
                                        > non-answers.
                                        >
                                        > Question:
                                        > What is your plan for after the revolution?
                                        >
                                        > Thats One
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >

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                                      • Knott
                                        ... What makes you think I care about that either? I care about what has made sense to me and what is of interest. Whether you understand it or whether I can
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Aug 30, 2006
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                                          > The "respect" I was referring to was
                                          > that of the philosophical community at large.

                                          What makes you think I care about that either? I care about what has
                                          made sense to me and what is of interest. Whether you understand it
                                          or whether I can convey it means much less -- if value can be
                                          ascertained.

                                          > The counter-arguments go as far back as classical antiquity.

                                          The stupidest of which being one of the most famous -- the latter
                                          parts of Descant where he attributes his ability to believe in the
                                          world to god's goodness. I stopped agreeing at "I think therefore I
                                          am". I am not at all sure my thinking can define anything other than
                                          I think I am, and sometimes I wonder about the 'I' part.

                                          > radical skepticism

                                          So, you say "solipsism" and I agree, then you disagree with your
                                          original perspective, like we are having an arguement. You
                                          apparently like to pull the strings. If you would make up your mind
                                          (whatever title you please is fine -- I don't care for labels
                                          either) we would have no arguement. I can be whatever you want.
                                          Label me. I see how either of these fits -- and how neither does. Be
                                          the puppetier.

                                          > A hallucination still presumes a false
                                          > idea in lieu of the "world" that is still
                                          > presupposed. A world is always presupposed.

                                          Well, that is the first mistake. Why pre-suppose anything at all?
                                          Why does your perspective on hallucination come with such
                                          limitations? Why can't the entire thing be a hallucination or a
                                          dream? Have you ever seen a really crazy person? I mean one who
                                          thinks he is really someone else? How do I know I am not him/her?
                                          How do I know what is real?

                                          > In that light, how does a solipsist explain
                                          > the language with its wealth of references,
                                          > if not for a real presupposed world? Therein,
                                          > my charge of indefensibility.

                                          I can't explain a thing. I have no pre-supposition. I don't know
                                          that I believe in a world. You tell me I am Solipsist or radical
                                          skeptic or whatever...I did label it absurdist at one point --
                                          mostly because it made me laugh. I don't believe words mean
                                          anything -- or perhaps I agree that there is hope that they mean
                                          something -- but that a word, any word, will not have 100%
                                          correspondence between one human and another as far as meaning and
                                          interpretation because of experience and digestion (if I can say it
                                          that way). Experience of words and their interpretation is 100%
                                          individual. There seems to be a consensus at times, but I believe
                                          consensus to be more like circumlocution (not exactly) than
                                          identical conclusion. I say things and have to depend on words to
                                          carry meaning -- all pretty much a hopeless endeavor.

                                          > Modern phenomenology has offered the best
                                          > (for me) treatment of the issue, especially
                                          > Heidegger in B&T (circumspection, care. etc.).
                                          > I would also contend that Hegel has as well.

                                          Stop blaming your mistakes on other people. Quotes are all well and
                                          good but it is the sense of the words that you believe you are
                                          interpreting, and you may be right or wrong in doing so...and be
                                          completely unaware one way or the other. If you digest words, and
                                          come to ideas that make sense, I believe the ideas are yours. I know
                                          what I think about other philosophers from their words, but damn if
                                          I can blame them for my interpretation of what they wrote...It isn't
                                          their problem how stupid I am or how I come to the words. For
                                          example, you are probably not as stupid as I am impressed with, and
                                          because you think you are clever and knowledgeable (my
                                          interpretation), it is likely to stay that way -- fair or not.

                                          I, for one, can tell you I have no idea what I am talking about...I
                                          am just interested in it.

                                          Flack Jack
                                        • eupraxis@aol.com
                                          Well, I tried to be as civil as I could. First mistake. Then I assumed that you had a little ed-jee-kashion. Second mistake. And it s is Descartes, Einstein,
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Aug 30, 2006
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                                            Well, I tried to be as civil as I could. First mistake. Then I assumed that you had a little ed-jee-kashion. Second mistake. And it's is Descartes, Einstein, and he is a "modern" philosopher, not from classical antiquity. The rest of your babble isn't worth responding to. I think I will just tune you out from here on.

                                            Please do not respond.

                                            WS


                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: knott12@...
                                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:50 AM
                                            Subject: [existlist] Re: oooooooooooo?

                                            > The "respect" I was referring to was
                                            > that of the philosophical community at large.

                                            What makes you think I care about that either? I care about what has
                                            made sense to me and what is of interest. Whether you understand it
                                            or whether I can convey it means much less -- if value can be
                                            ascertained.

                                            > The counter-arguments go as far back as classical antiquity.

                                            The stupidest of which being one of the most famous -- the latter
                                            parts of Descant where he attributes his ability to believe in the
                                            world to god's goodness. I stopped agreeing at "I think therefore I
                                            am". I am not at all sure my thinking can define anything other than
                                            I think I am, and sometimes I wonder about the 'I' part.

                                            > radical skepticism

                                            So, you say "solipsism" and I agree, then you disagree with your
                                            original perspective, like we are having an arguement. You
                                            apparently like to pull the strings. If you would make up your mind
                                            (whatever title you please is fine -- I don't care for labels
                                            either) we would have no arguement. I can be whatever you want.
                                            Label me. I see how either of these fits -- and how neither does. Be
                                            the puppetier.

                                            > A hallucination still presumes a false
                                            > idea in lieu of the "world" that is still
                                            > presupposed. A world is always presupposed.

                                            Well, that is the first mistake. Why pre-suppose anything at all?
                                            Why does your perspective on hallucination come with such
                                            limitations? Why can't the entire thing be a hallucination or a
                                            dream? Have you ever seen a really crazy person? I mean one who
                                            thinks he is really someone else? How do I know I am not him/her?
                                            How do I know what is real?

                                            > In that light, how does a solipsist explain
                                            > the language with its wealth of references,
                                            > if not for a real presupposed world? Therein,
                                            > my charge of indefensibility.

                                            I can't explain a thing. I have no pre-supposition. I don't know
                                            that I believe in a world. You tell me I am Solipsist or radical
                                            skeptic or whatever...I did label it absurdist at one point --
                                            mostly because it made me laugh. I don't believe words mean
                                            anything -- or perhaps I agree that there is hope that they mean
                                            something -- but that a word, any word, will not have 100%
                                            correspondence between one human and another as far as meaning and
                                            interpretation because of experience and digestion (if I can say it
                                            that way). Experience of words and their interpretation is 100%
                                            individual. There seems to be a consensus at times, but I believe
                                            consensus to be more like circumlocution (not exactly) than
                                            identical conclusion. I say things and have to depend on words to
                                            carry meaning -- all pretty much a hopeless endeavor.

                                            > Modern phenomenology has offered the best
                                            > (for me) treatment of the issue, especially
                                            > Heidegger in B&T (circumspection, care. etc.).
                                            > I would also contend that Hegel has as well.

                                            Stop blaming your mistakes on other people. Quotes are all well and
                                            good but it is the sense of the words that you believe you are
                                            interpreting, and you may be right or wrong in doing so...and be
                                            completely unaware one way or the other. If you digest words, and
                                            come to ideas that make sense, I believe the ideas are yours. I know
                                            what I think about other philosophers from their words, but damn if
                                            I can blame them for my interpretation of what they wrote...It isn't
                                            their problem how stupid I am or how I come to the words. For
                                            example, you are probably not as stupid as I am impressed with, and
                                            because you think you are clever and knowledgeable (my
                                            interpretation), it is likely to stay that way -- fair or not.

                                            I, for one, can tell you I have no idea what I am talking about...I
                                            am just interested in it.

                                            Flack Jack


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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Knott
                                            ... Hahahaha, don t ask me what I did to come up with that spelling! I can t even blame beer at lunch. I think in my mind I melded the title of a book from
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Aug 30, 2006
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                                              > it's is Descartes, Einstein

                                              Hahahaha, don't ask me what I did to come up with that spelling! I
                                              can't even blame beer at lunch. I think in my mind I melded the title
                                              of a book from Phil 101 Hume, Descartes and Kant...That's what I mean
                                              about words -- they don't often paint the whole picture. Though I
                                              don't know if i call him necessarily 'modern'.

                                              Don't be a buffoon, I know who he is.

                                              And from what did you become insulted while I made fun of myself? You
                                              are not merely sensitive -- it goes a bit beyond that. You want
                                              people to weep in your presence.

                                              > The rest of your babble isn't worth responding
                                              > to. I think I will just tune you out from here on.

                                              Like any one of us will be losers on that one...

                                              > Please do not respond.

                                              Sorry dude:

                                              Notta Monkey
                                            • Trinidad Cruz
                                              ... Knott question one: What is your plan for after the revolution? answer: Free press, Flat tax, Death penalty for election fraud convictees. TC question
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Aug 31, 2006
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                                                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <knott12@...> wrote:

                                                Knott question one:
                                                "What is your plan for after the revolution?"

                                                answer: Free press, Flat tax, Death penalty for election fraud convictees.

                                                TC question one:
                                                Does the bug crawl in and out of your ass?

                                                Don't skip turns.
                                              • Knott
                                                ... I can t answer that because I don t know what it means. Please rephrase. ... There is no difference. You can t possibly be getting confused, I m numbering
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Aug 31, 2006
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                                                  > TC question one:
                                                  > Does the bug crawl in and out of your ass?

                                                  I can't answer that because I don't know what it means. Please
                                                  rephrase.

                                                  > Don't skip turns.

                                                  There is no difference. You can't possibly be getting confused, I'm
                                                  numbering them.

                                                  > answer: Free press, Flat tax, Death penalty for election fraud
                                                  convictees.

                                                  You can't enforce the first, because it won't make money, and money
                                                  ties press to a lack of freedom. I will surprise you and agree with
                                                  the second, but find it unlikely that you can get it instilled. I
                                                  don't see why elections would fail to elect the same morons it
                                                  elects now--regardless of who dies from cheating.

                                                  This is not a plan, it is a wish, and there is a difference. You say
                                                  nothing of how to change the government, and I would imagine that
                                                  once they are all dead there needs to be a fundamental change. That
                                                  would likely mean you need to place people to govern, run the army,
                                                  give all the food stamps you want to generate...

                                                  You think you can take care of it in ten words, and that was my
                                                  original objection to the stupid, stupid article. It addressed the
                                                  problem in one: revolution. That was not an answer either.

                                                  Lush Tenness
                                                • Susan Schnelbach
                                                  ... I think I disagree with this comment. The press is free to cover whatever it wants. Their obsession with making money and having the most readers/viewers
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Aug 31, 2006
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                                                    On Aug 31, 2006, at 11:46 AM, Knott wrote:

                                                    > > answer: Free press, Flat tax, Death penalty for election fraud
                                                    > convictees.
                                                    >
                                                    > You can't enforce the first, because it won't make money, and money
                                                    > ties press to a lack of freedom. I will surprise you and agree with
                                                    >
                                                    I think I disagree with this comment. The press is free to cover
                                                    whatever it wants. Their obsession with making money and having the
                                                    most readers/viewers leads them to covering what they think the
                                                    general public wants to hear most about. If they really want to, they
                                                    should be able to balance between covering the crap like Jon-Benet,
                                                    the OJ trials, whatever airplane crashed, etc and covering news we
                                                    really should hear/read about.

                                                    Besides, if you 'enforce' a free press, it is no longer free.

                                                    As for the flat tax, anyone who actually works for a living is for a
                                                    flat tax. Too bad the lazy lawyers in Congress are more concerned
                                                    with their retirement plans, kingdoms, and lobbyists to actually do
                                                    something good for the rest of us.
                                                  • Knott
                                                    ... I disagree that you disagree. Technically, essentially the press is free to cover what they want (who is policing them?...wait, here comes a paranioa
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Sep 1, 2006
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                                                      > > > answer: Free press, Flat tax, Death penalty for election fraud
                                                      > > convictees.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > You can't enforce the first, because it won't make money, and money
                                                      > > ties press to a lack of freedom.
                                                      > >
                                                      > I think I disagree with this comment. The press is free to cover
                                                      > whatever it wants. Their obsession with making money and having the
                                                      > most readers/viewers leads them to covering what they think the
                                                      > general public wants to hear most about.

                                                      I disagree that you disagree. Technically, essentially the press is free to cover what they
                                                      want (who is policing them?...wait, here comes a paranioa theory...in an other message),
                                                      actually not free because they need to make money on all the trees they kill. You might
                                                      have a government subsidy...and then you would have government control as to what goes
                                                      in and stays out (censorship). You could have a different kind of subsidy (censorship). TC's
                                                      real goal would be to have a bunch of people who don't care about making money banding
                                                      together out of the goodness of their hearts to pay with their lives for giving you the REAL
                                                      news (I have issues with the idea that there is any such thing -- but that is a different
                                                      arguement and I am quite able to separate those things). That is the core of his revolution
                                                      thus far: that everyone be trusted to band together for the common good after we kill all
                                                      the current politicians that we supposedly elected and the rich people that support them
                                                      (emphasis on paranoia theory only partly my own).

                                                      My real point is that these people who like the idea of revolution don't like the idea that
                                                      they have to come up with something better. So far, TC's revolution is based on the fact
                                                      that everything will become better on its own -- and that people will fundamentally
                                                      change because a revolution has happened, that they will band together for a cause and
                                                      stay with that cause in mind after the goal of the revolution (overthrow) is achieved. Nice
                                                      hope. My point is that the goal has to have more interest -- longer legs than just
                                                      achieving an overthrow.

                                                      The revolutionists in the group are not interested in much but the glory of the chaos of
                                                      revolution, and continue to be unable to think past their shoelaces. Something needs to
                                                      drive people to want to make things better after removing the old. It is too difficult of a
                                                      problem for the revolutionists to address.

                                                      Fundamental Interests
                                                    • two_owl_night
                                                      ... Something needs to drive people to want to make things better after removing the old. It is too difficult of a problem for the revolutionists to address.
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Sep 1, 2006
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                                                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <knott12@...> wrote:

                                                        Something needs to drive people to want to make things better after
                                                        removing the old. It is too difficult of a problem for the
                                                        revolutionists to address.

                                                        This is fundamental Camus.

                                                        Mary
                                                      • Trinidad Cruz
                                                        You reject a question, I get an extra one. TEN words, NO commentary. question one: Does the bug crawl in and out of your ass? extra question one: What does TEN
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Sep 1, 2006
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                                                          You reject a question, I get an extra one. TEN words, NO commentary.

                                                          question one:
                                                          Does the bug crawl in and out of your ass?

                                                          extra question one:
                                                          What does TEN mean to you?

                                                          tc

                                                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <knott12@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > > TC question one:
                                                          > > Does the bug crawl in and out of your ass?
                                                          >
                                                          > I can't answer that because I don't know what it means. Please
                                                          > rephrase.
                                                          >
                                                          > > Don't skip turns.
                                                          >
                                                          > There is no difference. You can't possibly be getting confused, I'm
                                                          > numbering them.
                                                          >
                                                          > > answer: Free press, Flat tax, Death penalty for election fraud
                                                          > convictees.
                                                          >
                                                          > You can't enforce the first, because it won't make money, and money
                                                          > ties press to a lack of freedom. I will surprise you and agree with
                                                          > the second, but find it unlikely that you can get it instilled. I
                                                          > don't see why elections would fail to elect the same morons it
                                                          > elects now--regardless of who dies from cheating.
                                                          >
                                                          > This is not a plan, it is a wish, and there is a difference. You say
                                                          > nothing of how to change the government, and I would imagine that
                                                          > once they are all dead there needs to be a fundamental change. That
                                                          > would likely mean you need to place people to govern, run the army,
                                                          > give all the food stamps you want to generate...
                                                          >
                                                          > You think you can take care of it in ten words, and that was my
                                                          > original objection to the stupid, stupid article. It addressed the
                                                          > problem in one: revolution. That was not an answer either.
                                                          >
                                                          > Lush Tenness
                                                          >
                                                        • Knott
                                                          ... 1111111111 or QQQQQQQQQQ but when there are no words ... Ten High
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Sep 1, 2006
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                                                            > extra question one:
                                                            > What does TEN mean to you?

                                                            1111111111 or QQQQQQQQQQ

                                                            but when there are no words ...

                                                            Ten High
                                                          • Jeff Cunningham
                                                            Bug goes in the mouth. Bug crawls out the ass./10 words ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Sep 2, 2006
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                                                              Bug goes in the mouth. Bug crawls out the ass./10
                                                              words

                                                              --- Trinidad Cruz <cruzprdb@...> wrote:

                                                              > You reject a question, I get an extra one. TEN
                                                              > words, NO commentary.
                                                              >
                                                              > question one:
                                                              > Does the bug crawl in and out of your ass?
                                                              >
                                                              > extra question one:
                                                              > What does TEN mean to you?
                                                              >
                                                              > tc
                                                              >
                                                              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott"
                                                              > <knott12@...> wrote:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > > TC question one:
                                                              > > > Does the bug crawl in and out of your ass?
                                                              > >
                                                              > > I can't answer that because I don't know what it
                                                              > means. Please
                                                              > > rephrase.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > > Don't skip turns.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > There is no difference. You can't possibly be
                                                              > getting confused, I'm
                                                              > > numbering them.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > > answer: Free press, Flat tax, Death penalty for
                                                              > election fraud
                                                              > > convictees.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > You can't enforce the first, because it won't make
                                                              > money, and money
                                                              > > ties press to a lack of freedom. I will surprise
                                                              > you and agree with
                                                              > > the second, but find it unlikely that you can get
                                                              > it instilled. I
                                                              > > don't see why elections would fail to elect the
                                                              > same morons it
                                                              > > elects now--regardless of who dies from cheating.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > This is not a plan, it is a wish, and there is a
                                                              > difference. You say
                                                              > > nothing of how to change the government, and I
                                                              > would imagine that
                                                              > > once they are all dead there needs to be a
                                                              > fundamental change. That
                                                              > > would likely mean you need to place people to
                                                              > govern, run the army,
                                                              > > give all the food stamps you want to generate...
                                                              > >
                                                              > > You think you can take care of it in ten words,
                                                              > and that was my
                                                              > > original objection to the stupid, stupid article.
                                                              > It addressed the
                                                              > > problem in one: revolution. That was not an answer
                                                              > either.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Lush Tenness
                                                              > >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >


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