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Re: Can you still be consider an Existentialist if....

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  • two_owl_night
    First, packaged and pre-cooked Existentialism is not what we offer here, so we re not obliged to respond. And secondly, you must be an existentialist for the
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 2, 2006
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      First, packaged and pre-cooked Existentialism is not what we offer
      here, so we're not obliged to respond. And secondly, you must be an
      existentialist for the Existentialist Code to apply, and you're not.
      And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than
      absolutes. Welcome aboard the ghost ship, "No Exit", Mr.
      Gerald.[1]

      In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@...> wrote:

      <You are not sure if you believe in "existence precedes essence" I
      think that there is some biology/genetics that makes the person who he
      is, and I'm not saying height, weight, etc. That our personalities are
      shaped partly by biology. Am I still an existentialist? Thanks for
      the insight. Gerald>

      You bet your ducats! Some angst is alleviated by knowledge of
      biology, specifically genetics, but not all. We can compromise and
      say that our existence is a ship, designed according to blueprint,
      though not perfectly. It will be outfitted, though not for every
      possible contingency. The ship is launched and experiences the
      vicissitudes of storms, doldrums, and halcyon seas. So then, living
      out our lives in all these situations forms our essence, which as
      Trinidad points out can never be a whole. Sartre and Beauvoir were
      sailing the trades, so to speak. But they didn't comprehend
      shipbuilding or meteorology. Our own Captain William adeptly
      navigates for us under these sidereal realities.

      You see, it was not by accident that ships were once named for women,
      though it was bad luck to have them onboard. Even the best helmsman,
      for all his scientific knowledge, must bring the ship back to safe
      harbor from time to time. And like the fat lady sang, "You've gotta
      make your own kind of music, sing your own special song, make your
      own kind of music, even if nobody else sings along."

      Mary

      [1]"First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor
      our agreement, so I must do nothin'. And secondly, you must be a
      pirate for the Pirate's Code to apply, and you're not. And thirdly,
      the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.
      Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner," says Barbossa" -
      Pirates of the Caribbean





      --- >
    • dasein512
      So I am an existentialist!!!
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 2, 2006
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        So I am an existentialist!!!


        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "two_owl_night" <two_owl_night@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > First, packaged and pre-cooked Existentialism is not what we offer
        > here, so we're not obliged to respond. And secondly, you must be an
        > existentialist for the Existentialist Code to apply, and you're not.
        > And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than
        > absolutes. Welcome aboard the ghost ship, "No Exit", Mr.
        > Gerald.[1]
        >
        > In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@> wrote:
        >
        > <You are not sure if you believe in "existence precedes essence" I
        > think that there is some biology/genetics that makes the person who he
        > is, and I'm not saying height, weight, etc. That our personalities are
        > shaped partly by biology. Am I still an existentialist? Thanks for
        > the insight. Gerald>
        >
        > You bet your ducats! Some angst is alleviated by knowledge of
        > biology, specifically genetics, but not all. We can compromise and
        > say that our existence is a ship, designed according to blueprint,
        > though not perfectly. It will be outfitted, though not for every
        > possible contingency. The ship is launched and experiences the
        > vicissitudes of storms, doldrums, and halcyon seas. So then, living
        > out our lives in all these situations forms our essence, which as
        > Trinidad points out can never be a whole. Sartre and Beauvoir were
        > sailing the trades, so to speak. But they didn't comprehend
        > shipbuilding or meteorology. Our own Captain William adeptly
        > navigates for us under these sidereal realities.
        >
        > You see, it was not by accident that ships were once named for women,
        > though it was bad luck to have them onboard. Even the best helmsman,
        > for all his scientific knowledge, must bring the ship back to safe
        > harbor from time to time. And like the fat lady sang, "You've gotta
        > make your own kind of music, sing your own special song, make your
        > own kind of music, even if nobody else sings along."
        >
        > Mary
        >
        > [1]"First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor
        > our agreement, so I must do nothin'. And secondly, you must be a
        > pirate for the Pirate's Code to apply, and you're not. And thirdly,
        > the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.
        > Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner," says Barbossa" -
        > Pirates of the Caribbean
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- >
        >
      • two_owl_night
        Here is the Existentialism and Darwinism section of a 4-page/part article. Existentialist Aesthetics is also a topic near and dear to my heart.
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 3, 2006
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          Here is the "Existentialism and Darwinism" section of a 4-page/part
          article. "Existentialist Aesthetics" is also a topic near and dear to
          my heart.

          Existentialism and Darwinism by Austin Cline

          "Initially, at least, there wouldn't appear to be any particular
          connection between Charles Darwin's theory of evolution and
          existentialist philosophy — but first impressions can be deceiving.
          As a matter of fact, there are important connections between the two.
          This is not to say that there is any sort of causal relationship
          because existentialism didn't inspire evolution and evolutionary
          theory didn't help produce existentialism. The relationship between
          the two is more a matter of spheres of concern and interest.

          Evolutionary theory is, obviously enough, about life - and so is
          existentialism. Indeed, existentialists typically try to distinguish
          their work from that of other philosophers by emphasizing the fact
          that they are concerned first and foremost with how a person is to
          live in today's world. More than that, however, existentialism is
          about the struggle to live. This, you may already know, is also the
          central theme of Darwin's works.

          Of course, for Darwin the "struggle to live" was a biological issue
          dealing with how members of different species compete for resources
          and strive to reproduce. Existentialists, however, have found the
          similarity between this biological matter and their own philosophical
          work to be very interesting. To a degree, it has provided a certain
          level of scientific backing to their insistence that the focus on how
          people live is of the utmost importance.

          A further connection between Darwin's work and existentialism is the
          manner in which evolutionary theory contradicts certain traditional
          assumptions about the nature of life. In the past, people assumed
          that each species was created with a fixed nature. Each was assumed
          to behave in a fixed and immutable way because that was how God
          created them and how they had always been since the beginning of
          time.

          Darwin rejected this, arguing in his evolutionary theory that species
          actually change over time. In the struggle to survive, only those
          species which are best adapted to their environments survive while
          the others die. Through the ages, this forces species to change both
          their physical and behavioral characeristics in order to become
          better adapted. Thus, there is no "fixed nature" aside, perhaps, from
          the principle of change and survival.

          Obviously this is quite compatible with existentialist philosophy.
          Most existentialists have argued that we aren't born with a fixed
          human nature which forces us to act in certain ways and prevents us
          from acting in other ways. Instead, what we usually see as
          our "natures" is actually a product of our choices — sometimes even
          choices we don't realize we are making.

          Thus, Darwinian evolution provides some scientific credibility in
          more than one way to the existentialist position that humans make
          themselves and remake themselves during their struggle to survive in
          their day-to-day lives. Not all existentialists are
          necessarily "staunch Darwinians," however. Although it would be a
          rare existentialist who rejected the truth of evolutionary theory,
          there are those who don't regard it as having any real bearing on
          their philosophy."

          http://atheism.about.com/od/existentialism/a/philosophies.htm

          Mary
          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@...>
          wrote:

          > So I am an existentialist!!! <
        • hermanbtriplegood
          Mister (Miss?) Dasein: In all probability, the most appropriate manner in which to try and fit me into your picture of what goes on here is to imagine a great
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 4, 2006
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            Mister (Miss?) Dasein:

            In all probability, the most appropriate manner in which to try and
            fit me into your picture of what goes on here is to imagine a great
            big elephant in the room that everybody in the room is doing their
            level best to try and ignore. I am the gadfly here, often
            persistently irritating, sometimes out of element, perhaps a freak of
            nature, a reason lover, a rationalist and moralist, in the midst of a
            bunch of existential anarchists. I keep saying, but being reasonable
            is existential too! Besides, since the very basis of existentialism
            is no-rules, I feel quite justified in inviting myself to be here in
            my capacity as a glaring instance of the breaking of the no-rules
            rule.

            Welcome aboard.

            Hb3g

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > So I am an existentialist!!!
            >
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "two_owl_night" <two_owl_night@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > First, packaged and pre-cooked Existentialism is not what we
            offer
            > > here, so we're not obliged to respond. And secondly, you must be
            an
            > > existentialist for the Existentialist Code to apply, and you're
            not.
            > > And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than
            > > absolutes. Welcome aboard the ghost ship, "No Exit", Mr.
            > > Gerald.[1]
            > >
            > > In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@> wrote:
            > >
            > > <You are not sure if you believe in "existence precedes essence" I
            > > think that there is some biology/genetics that makes the person
            who he
            > > is, and I'm not saying height, weight, etc. That our
            personalities are
            > > shaped partly by biology. Am I still an existentialist? Thanks
            for
            > > the insight. Gerald>
            > >
            > > You bet your ducats! Some angst is alleviated by knowledge of
            > > biology, specifically genetics, but not all. We can compromise
            and
            > > say that our existence is a ship, designed according to
            blueprint,
            > > though not perfectly. It will be outfitted, though not for every
            > > possible contingency. The ship is launched and experiences the
            > > vicissitudes of storms, doldrums, and halcyon seas. So then,
            living
            > > out our lives in all these situations forms our essence, which as
            > > Trinidad points out can never be a whole. Sartre and Beauvoir
            were
            > > sailing the trades, so to speak. But they didn't comprehend
            > > shipbuilding or meteorology. Our own Captain William adeptly
            > > navigates for us under these sidereal realities.
            > >
            > > You see, it was not by accident that ships were once named for
            women,
            > > though it was bad luck to have them onboard. Even the best
            helmsman,
            > > for all his scientific knowledge, must bring the ship back to
            safe
            > > harbor from time to time. And like the fat lady sang, "You've
            gotta
            > > make your own kind of music, sing your own special song, make
            your
            > > own kind of music, even if nobody else sings along."
            > >
            > > Mary
            > >
            > > [1]"First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations
            nor
            > > our agreement, so I must do nothin'. And secondly, you must be a
            > > pirate for the Pirate's Code to apply, and you're not. And
            thirdly,
            > > the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.
            > > Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner," says Barbossa" -
            > > Pirates of the Caribbean
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- >
            > >
            >
          • dasein512
            I am in the middle, I believe in the power of choices, I believe in the concept of bad faith , inauthentic vs authentic, but I also believe biology has a
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 4, 2006
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              I am in the middle, I believe in the power of choices, I believe in
              the concept of 'bad faith', inauthentic vs authentic, but I also
              believe biology has a powerful influence as well, not just in how tall
              I am, but in predispositions or temperment, but then existenialism
              comes in at this point and we have to choose. I believe that we do
              have some sort of essence, or more appropriately some basic energy
              behind us. I am more inclined towards religious or spiritual
              existentialism, but have some very secular/atheist beliefs as well. I
              have a hard time philosophically fitting in one neat box.

              Gerald
            • Bobconkawi@aol.com
              Gerald--Neither Camus nor Sartre felt they fit neatly into an existentialist box, eider. Camus was shocked when he met and talked to Sartre for the first time
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 4, 2006
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                Gerald--Neither Camus nor Sartre felt they fit neatly into an existentialist box, eider. Camus was shocked when he met and talked to Sartre for the first time at just how much they disagreed. Being an existentialist means thinking for yourself, so you are bound to think a little differently from other existentialists. --bob

                -----Original Message-----
                From: dasein512 <gghumanistic@...>
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 18:05:51 -0000
                Subject: [existlist] Re: Can you still be consider an Existentialist if....



                I am in the middle, I believe in the power of choices, I believe in
                the concept of 'bad faith', inauthentic vs authentic, but I also
                believe biology has a powerful influence as well, not just in how tall
                I am, but in predispositions or temperment, but then existenialism
                comes in at this point and we have to choose. I believe that we do
                have some sort of essence, or more appropriately some basic energy
                behind us. I am more inclined towards religious or spiritual
                existentialism, but have some very secular/atheist beliefs as well. I
                have a hard time philosophically fitting in one neat box.

                Gerald







                Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
                Yahoo! Groups Links






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • dasein512
                Thank you for your kind comments. I know I come off a little naive....but I guess I am always looking for those more wise than I. I came to existentialism
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 4, 2006
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                  Thank you for your kind comments. I know I come off a little
                  naive....but I guess I am always looking for those more wise than I. I
                  came to existentialism through readings of Fromm, May, Rogers, and
                  then met Buber, Camus. I am still searching but find fertile ground in
                  existentialism, where I am rooted firmly, along with humanism, etc.

                  Gerald
                • louise
                  Herman, I am not the least offended by your opinions. Don t worry about Bill - he just does gruff better than anyone else, and always to good purpose. If
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 5, 2006
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                    Herman, I am not the least offended by your opinions. Don't worry
                    about Bill - he just does gruff better than anyone else, and always
                    to good purpose. If you look at what you wrote below, however,
                    there's strong implication that many of us are clumped together in
                    your mind, in that phrase, 'bunch of existential anarchists'. I am
                    not an anarchist, nor have I ever met an individual who truly fitted
                    that description. For many, claim to such an ethos might provide
                    convenient mask, behind which to conduct hedonistic strategies, with
                    varying degrees of conscious intent. Existlist does attract
                    thinking individuals, fact which ensures that self-serving anarchism
                    and heedless hedonism alike may be rigorously questioned here.
                    Those who don't like the heat tend to leave the kitchen fairly
                    promptly. If there is a big elephant in here, I haven't noticed
                    yet. Your own rational powers seem far too substantive to bear the
                    metaphor of gadfly, which famously Socrates took upon himself.
                    Hadn't realised, before, that it's quite a Homeric image. In the
                    Iliad, for instance, it is no disgrace for a warrior to be compared
                    with an insect, any more than with a mountain lion or a wolf. Life
                    persists, in great specificity. Poets notice this. Louise

                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "hermanbtriplegood" <hb3g@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Mister (Miss?) Dasein:
                    >
                    > In all probability, the most appropriate manner in which to try
                    and
                    > fit me into your picture of what goes on here is to imagine a
                    great
                    > big elephant in the room that everybody in the room is doing their
                    > level best to try and ignore. I am the gadfly here, often
                    > persistently irritating, sometimes out of element, perhaps a freak
                    of
                    > nature, a reason lover, a rationalist and moralist, in the midst
                    of a
                    > bunch of existential anarchists. I keep saying, but being
                    reasonable
                    > is existential too! Besides, since the very basis of
                    existentialism
                    > is no-rules, I feel quite justified in inviting myself to be here
                    in
                    > my capacity as a glaring instance of the breaking of the no-rules
                    > rule.
                    >
                    > Welcome aboard.
                    >
                    > Hb3g
                    >
                    > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > So I am an existentialist!!!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "two_owl_night"
                    <two_owl_night@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > First, packaged and pre-cooked Existentialism is not what we
                    > offer
                    > > > here, so we're not obliged to respond. And secondly, you must
                    be
                    > an
                    > > > existentialist for the Existentialist Code to apply, and
                    you're
                    > not.
                    > > > And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines"
                    than
                    > > > absolutes. Welcome aboard the ghost ship, "No Exit", Mr.
                    > > > Gerald.[1]
                    > > >
                    > > > In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@>
                    wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > <You are not sure if you believe in "existence precedes
                    essence" I
                    > > > think that there is some biology/genetics that makes the
                    person
                    > who he
                    > > > is, and I'm not saying height, weight, etc. That our
                    > personalities are
                    > > > shaped partly by biology. Am I still an existentialist? Thanks
                    > for
                    > > > the insight. Gerald>
                    > > >
                    > > > You bet your ducats! Some angst is alleviated by knowledge of
                    > > > biology, specifically genetics, but not all. We can compromise
                    > and
                    > > > say that our existence is a ship, designed according to
                    > blueprint,
                    > > > though not perfectly. It will be outfitted, though not for
                    every
                    > > > possible contingency. The ship is launched and experiences the
                    > > > vicissitudes of storms, doldrums, and halcyon seas. So then,
                    > living
                    > > > out our lives in all these situations forms our essence, which
                    as
                    > > > Trinidad points out can never be a whole. Sartre and Beauvoir
                    > were
                    > > > sailing the trades, so to speak. But they didn't comprehend
                    > > > shipbuilding or meteorology. Our own Captain William adeptly
                    > > > navigates for us under these sidereal realities.
                    > > >
                    > > > You see, it was not by accident that ships were once named for
                    > women,
                    > > > though it was bad luck to have them onboard. Even the best
                    > helmsman,
                    > > > for all his scientific knowledge, must bring the ship back to
                    > safe
                    > > > harbor from time to time. And like the fat lady sang, "You've
                    > gotta
                    > > > make your own kind of music, sing your own special song, make
                    > your
                    > > > own kind of music, even if nobody else sings along."
                    > > >
                    > > > Mary
                    > > >
                    > > > [1]"First, your return to shore was not part of our
                    negotiations
                    > nor
                    > > > our agreement, so I must do nothin'. And secondly, you must be
                    a
                    > > > pirate for the Pirate's Code to apply, and you're not. And
                    > thirdly,
                    > > > the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual
                    rules.
                    > > > Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner," says Barbossa" -
                    > > > Pirates of the Caribbean
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
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