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Can you still be consider an Existentialist if....

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  • dasein512
    You are not sure if you believe in existence precedes essence I think that there is some biology/genetics that makes the person who he is, and I m not saying
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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      You are not sure if you believe in "existence precedes essence" I
      think that there is some biology/genetics that makes the person who he
      is, and I'm not saying height, weight, etc. That our personalities are
      shaped partly by biology. Am I still an existentialist?

      Thanks for the insight,
      Gerald
    • two_owl_night
      First, packaged and pre-cooked Existentialism is not what we offer here, so we re not obliged to respond. And secondly, you must be an existentialist for the
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 2, 2006
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        First, packaged and pre-cooked Existentialism is not what we offer
        here, so we're not obliged to respond. And secondly, you must be an
        existentialist for the Existentialist Code to apply, and you're not.
        And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than
        absolutes. Welcome aboard the ghost ship, "No Exit", Mr.
        Gerald.[1]

        In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@...> wrote:

        <You are not sure if you believe in "existence precedes essence" I
        think that there is some biology/genetics that makes the person who he
        is, and I'm not saying height, weight, etc. That our personalities are
        shaped partly by biology. Am I still an existentialist? Thanks for
        the insight. Gerald>

        You bet your ducats! Some angst is alleviated by knowledge of
        biology, specifically genetics, but not all. We can compromise and
        say that our existence is a ship, designed according to blueprint,
        though not perfectly. It will be outfitted, though not for every
        possible contingency. The ship is launched and experiences the
        vicissitudes of storms, doldrums, and halcyon seas. So then, living
        out our lives in all these situations forms our essence, which as
        Trinidad points out can never be a whole. Sartre and Beauvoir were
        sailing the trades, so to speak. But they didn't comprehend
        shipbuilding or meteorology. Our own Captain William adeptly
        navigates for us under these sidereal realities.

        You see, it was not by accident that ships were once named for women,
        though it was bad luck to have them onboard. Even the best helmsman,
        for all his scientific knowledge, must bring the ship back to safe
        harbor from time to time. And like the fat lady sang, "You've gotta
        make your own kind of music, sing your own special song, make your
        own kind of music, even if nobody else sings along."

        Mary

        [1]"First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor
        our agreement, so I must do nothin'. And secondly, you must be a
        pirate for the Pirate's Code to apply, and you're not. And thirdly,
        the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.
        Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner," says Barbossa" -
        Pirates of the Caribbean





        --- >
      • dasein512
        So I am an existentialist!!!
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 2, 2006
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          So I am an existentialist!!!


          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "two_owl_night" <two_owl_night@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > First, packaged and pre-cooked Existentialism is not what we offer
          > here, so we're not obliged to respond. And secondly, you must be an
          > existentialist for the Existentialist Code to apply, and you're not.
          > And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than
          > absolutes. Welcome aboard the ghost ship, "No Exit", Mr.
          > Gerald.[1]
          >
          > In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@> wrote:
          >
          > <You are not sure if you believe in "existence precedes essence" I
          > think that there is some biology/genetics that makes the person who he
          > is, and I'm not saying height, weight, etc. That our personalities are
          > shaped partly by biology. Am I still an existentialist? Thanks for
          > the insight. Gerald>
          >
          > You bet your ducats! Some angst is alleviated by knowledge of
          > biology, specifically genetics, but not all. We can compromise and
          > say that our existence is a ship, designed according to blueprint,
          > though not perfectly. It will be outfitted, though not for every
          > possible contingency. The ship is launched and experiences the
          > vicissitudes of storms, doldrums, and halcyon seas. So then, living
          > out our lives in all these situations forms our essence, which as
          > Trinidad points out can never be a whole. Sartre and Beauvoir were
          > sailing the trades, so to speak. But they didn't comprehend
          > shipbuilding or meteorology. Our own Captain William adeptly
          > navigates for us under these sidereal realities.
          >
          > You see, it was not by accident that ships were once named for women,
          > though it was bad luck to have them onboard. Even the best helmsman,
          > for all his scientific knowledge, must bring the ship back to safe
          > harbor from time to time. And like the fat lady sang, "You've gotta
          > make your own kind of music, sing your own special song, make your
          > own kind of music, even if nobody else sings along."
          >
          > Mary
          >
          > [1]"First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor
          > our agreement, so I must do nothin'. And secondly, you must be a
          > pirate for the Pirate's Code to apply, and you're not. And thirdly,
          > the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.
          > Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner," says Barbossa" -
          > Pirates of the Caribbean
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- >
          >
        • two_owl_night
          Here is the Existentialism and Darwinism section of a 4-page/part article. Existentialist Aesthetics is also a topic near and dear to my heart.
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 3, 2006
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            Here is the "Existentialism and Darwinism" section of a 4-page/part
            article. "Existentialist Aesthetics" is also a topic near and dear to
            my heart.

            Existentialism and Darwinism by Austin Cline

            "Initially, at least, there wouldn't appear to be any particular
            connection between Charles Darwin's theory of evolution and
            existentialist philosophy — but first impressions can be deceiving.
            As a matter of fact, there are important connections between the two.
            This is not to say that there is any sort of causal relationship
            because existentialism didn't inspire evolution and evolutionary
            theory didn't help produce existentialism. The relationship between
            the two is more a matter of spheres of concern and interest.

            Evolutionary theory is, obviously enough, about life - and so is
            existentialism. Indeed, existentialists typically try to distinguish
            their work from that of other philosophers by emphasizing the fact
            that they are concerned first and foremost with how a person is to
            live in today's world. More than that, however, existentialism is
            about the struggle to live. This, you may already know, is also the
            central theme of Darwin's works.

            Of course, for Darwin the "struggle to live" was a biological issue
            dealing with how members of different species compete for resources
            and strive to reproduce. Existentialists, however, have found the
            similarity between this biological matter and their own philosophical
            work to be very interesting. To a degree, it has provided a certain
            level of scientific backing to their insistence that the focus on how
            people live is of the utmost importance.

            A further connection between Darwin's work and existentialism is the
            manner in which evolutionary theory contradicts certain traditional
            assumptions about the nature of life. In the past, people assumed
            that each species was created with a fixed nature. Each was assumed
            to behave in a fixed and immutable way because that was how God
            created them and how they had always been since the beginning of
            time.

            Darwin rejected this, arguing in his evolutionary theory that species
            actually change over time. In the struggle to survive, only those
            species which are best adapted to their environments survive while
            the others die. Through the ages, this forces species to change both
            their physical and behavioral characeristics in order to become
            better adapted. Thus, there is no "fixed nature" aside, perhaps, from
            the principle of change and survival.

            Obviously this is quite compatible with existentialist philosophy.
            Most existentialists have argued that we aren't born with a fixed
            human nature which forces us to act in certain ways and prevents us
            from acting in other ways. Instead, what we usually see as
            our "natures" is actually a product of our choices — sometimes even
            choices we don't realize we are making.

            Thus, Darwinian evolution provides some scientific credibility in
            more than one way to the existentialist position that humans make
            themselves and remake themselves during their struggle to survive in
            their day-to-day lives. Not all existentialists are
            necessarily "staunch Darwinians," however. Although it would be a
            rare existentialist who rejected the truth of evolutionary theory,
            there are those who don't regard it as having any real bearing on
            their philosophy."

            http://atheism.about.com/od/existentialism/a/philosophies.htm

            Mary
            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@...>
            wrote:

            > So I am an existentialist!!! <
          • hermanbtriplegood
            Mister (Miss?) Dasein: In all probability, the most appropriate manner in which to try and fit me into your picture of what goes on here is to imagine a great
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 4, 2006
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              Mister (Miss?) Dasein:

              In all probability, the most appropriate manner in which to try and
              fit me into your picture of what goes on here is to imagine a great
              big elephant in the room that everybody in the room is doing their
              level best to try and ignore. I am the gadfly here, often
              persistently irritating, sometimes out of element, perhaps a freak of
              nature, a reason lover, a rationalist and moralist, in the midst of a
              bunch of existential anarchists. I keep saying, but being reasonable
              is existential too! Besides, since the very basis of existentialism
              is no-rules, I feel quite justified in inviting myself to be here in
              my capacity as a glaring instance of the breaking of the no-rules
              rule.

              Welcome aboard.

              Hb3g

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > So I am an existentialist!!!
              >
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "two_owl_night" <two_owl_night@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > First, packaged and pre-cooked Existentialism is not what we
              offer
              > > here, so we're not obliged to respond. And secondly, you must be
              an
              > > existentialist for the Existentialist Code to apply, and you're
              not.
              > > And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than
              > > absolutes. Welcome aboard the ghost ship, "No Exit", Mr.
              > > Gerald.[1]
              > >
              > > In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@> wrote:
              > >
              > > <You are not sure if you believe in "existence precedes essence" I
              > > think that there is some biology/genetics that makes the person
              who he
              > > is, and I'm not saying height, weight, etc. That our
              personalities are
              > > shaped partly by biology. Am I still an existentialist? Thanks
              for
              > > the insight. Gerald>
              > >
              > > You bet your ducats! Some angst is alleviated by knowledge of
              > > biology, specifically genetics, but not all. We can compromise
              and
              > > say that our existence is a ship, designed according to
              blueprint,
              > > though not perfectly. It will be outfitted, though not for every
              > > possible contingency. The ship is launched and experiences the
              > > vicissitudes of storms, doldrums, and halcyon seas. So then,
              living
              > > out our lives in all these situations forms our essence, which as
              > > Trinidad points out can never be a whole. Sartre and Beauvoir
              were
              > > sailing the trades, so to speak. But they didn't comprehend
              > > shipbuilding or meteorology. Our own Captain William adeptly
              > > navigates for us under these sidereal realities.
              > >
              > > You see, it was not by accident that ships were once named for
              women,
              > > though it was bad luck to have them onboard. Even the best
              helmsman,
              > > for all his scientific knowledge, must bring the ship back to
              safe
              > > harbor from time to time. And like the fat lady sang, "You've
              gotta
              > > make your own kind of music, sing your own special song, make
              your
              > > own kind of music, even if nobody else sings along."
              > >
              > > Mary
              > >
              > > [1]"First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations
              nor
              > > our agreement, so I must do nothin'. And secondly, you must be a
              > > pirate for the Pirate's Code to apply, and you're not. And
              thirdly,
              > > the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.
              > > Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner," says Barbossa" -
              > > Pirates of the Caribbean
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- >
              > >
              >
            • dasein512
              I am in the middle, I believe in the power of choices, I believe in the concept of bad faith , inauthentic vs authentic, but I also believe biology has a
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 4, 2006
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                I am in the middle, I believe in the power of choices, I believe in
                the concept of 'bad faith', inauthentic vs authentic, but I also
                believe biology has a powerful influence as well, not just in how tall
                I am, but in predispositions or temperment, but then existenialism
                comes in at this point and we have to choose. I believe that we do
                have some sort of essence, or more appropriately some basic energy
                behind us. I am more inclined towards religious or spiritual
                existentialism, but have some very secular/atheist beliefs as well. I
                have a hard time philosophically fitting in one neat box.

                Gerald
              • Bobconkawi@aol.com
                Gerald--Neither Camus nor Sartre felt they fit neatly into an existentialist box, eider. Camus was shocked when he met and talked to Sartre for the first time
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 4, 2006
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                  Gerald--Neither Camus nor Sartre felt they fit neatly into an existentialist box, eider. Camus was shocked when he met and talked to Sartre for the first time at just how much they disagreed. Being an existentialist means thinking for yourself, so you are bound to think a little differently from other existentialists. --bob

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: dasein512 <gghumanistic@...>
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 18:05:51 -0000
                  Subject: [existlist] Re: Can you still be consider an Existentialist if....



                  I am in the middle, I believe in the power of choices, I believe in
                  the concept of 'bad faith', inauthentic vs authentic, but I also
                  believe biology has a powerful influence as well, not just in how tall
                  I am, but in predispositions or temperment, but then existenialism
                  comes in at this point and we have to choose. I believe that we do
                  have some sort of essence, or more appropriately some basic energy
                  behind us. I am more inclined towards religious or spiritual
                  existentialism, but have some very secular/atheist beliefs as well. I
                  have a hard time philosophically fitting in one neat box.

                  Gerald







                  Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                  Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
                  Yahoo! Groups Links






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • dasein512
                  Thank you for your kind comments. I know I come off a little naive....but I guess I am always looking for those more wise than I. I came to existentialism
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 4, 2006
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                    Thank you for your kind comments. I know I come off a little
                    naive....but I guess I am always looking for those more wise than I. I
                    came to existentialism through readings of Fromm, May, Rogers, and
                    then met Buber, Camus. I am still searching but find fertile ground in
                    existentialism, where I am rooted firmly, along with humanism, etc.

                    Gerald
                  • louise
                    Herman, I am not the least offended by your opinions. Don t worry about Bill - he just does gruff better than anyone else, and always to good purpose. If
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 5, 2006
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                      Herman, I am not the least offended by your opinions. Don't worry
                      about Bill - he just does gruff better than anyone else, and always
                      to good purpose. If you look at what you wrote below, however,
                      there's strong implication that many of us are clumped together in
                      your mind, in that phrase, 'bunch of existential anarchists'. I am
                      not an anarchist, nor have I ever met an individual who truly fitted
                      that description. For many, claim to such an ethos might provide
                      convenient mask, behind which to conduct hedonistic strategies, with
                      varying degrees of conscious intent. Existlist does attract
                      thinking individuals, fact which ensures that self-serving anarchism
                      and heedless hedonism alike may be rigorously questioned here.
                      Those who don't like the heat tend to leave the kitchen fairly
                      promptly. If there is a big elephant in here, I haven't noticed
                      yet. Your own rational powers seem far too substantive to bear the
                      metaphor of gadfly, which famously Socrates took upon himself.
                      Hadn't realised, before, that it's quite a Homeric image. In the
                      Iliad, for instance, it is no disgrace for a warrior to be compared
                      with an insect, any more than with a mountain lion or a wolf. Life
                      persists, in great specificity. Poets notice this. Louise

                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "hermanbtriplegood" <hb3g@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Mister (Miss?) Dasein:
                      >
                      > In all probability, the most appropriate manner in which to try
                      and
                      > fit me into your picture of what goes on here is to imagine a
                      great
                      > big elephant in the room that everybody in the room is doing their
                      > level best to try and ignore. I am the gadfly here, often
                      > persistently irritating, sometimes out of element, perhaps a freak
                      of
                      > nature, a reason lover, a rationalist and moralist, in the midst
                      of a
                      > bunch of existential anarchists. I keep saying, but being
                      reasonable
                      > is existential too! Besides, since the very basis of
                      existentialism
                      > is no-rules, I feel quite justified in inviting myself to be here
                      in
                      > my capacity as a glaring instance of the breaking of the no-rules
                      > rule.
                      >
                      > Welcome aboard.
                      >
                      > Hb3g
                      >
                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > So I am an existentialist!!!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "two_owl_night"
                      <two_owl_night@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > First, packaged and pre-cooked Existentialism is not what we
                      > offer
                      > > > here, so we're not obliged to respond. And secondly, you must
                      be
                      > an
                      > > > existentialist for the Existentialist Code to apply, and
                      you're
                      > not.
                      > > > And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines"
                      than
                      > > > absolutes. Welcome aboard the ghost ship, "No Exit", Mr.
                      > > > Gerald.[1]
                      > > >
                      > > > In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "dasein512" <gghumanistic@>
                      wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > <You are not sure if you believe in "existence precedes
                      essence" I
                      > > > think that there is some biology/genetics that makes the
                      person
                      > who he
                      > > > is, and I'm not saying height, weight, etc. That our
                      > personalities are
                      > > > shaped partly by biology. Am I still an existentialist? Thanks
                      > for
                      > > > the insight. Gerald>
                      > > >
                      > > > You bet your ducats! Some angst is alleviated by knowledge of
                      > > > biology, specifically genetics, but not all. We can compromise
                      > and
                      > > > say that our existence is a ship, designed according to
                      > blueprint,
                      > > > though not perfectly. It will be outfitted, though not for
                      every
                      > > > possible contingency. The ship is launched and experiences the
                      > > > vicissitudes of storms, doldrums, and halcyon seas. So then,
                      > living
                      > > > out our lives in all these situations forms our essence, which
                      as
                      > > > Trinidad points out can never be a whole. Sartre and Beauvoir
                      > were
                      > > > sailing the trades, so to speak. But they didn't comprehend
                      > > > shipbuilding or meteorology. Our own Captain William adeptly
                      > > > navigates for us under these sidereal realities.
                      > > >
                      > > > You see, it was not by accident that ships were once named for
                      > women,
                      > > > though it was bad luck to have them onboard. Even the best
                      > helmsman,
                      > > > for all his scientific knowledge, must bring the ship back to
                      > safe
                      > > > harbor from time to time. And like the fat lady sang, "You've
                      > gotta
                      > > > make your own kind of music, sing your own special song, make
                      > your
                      > > > own kind of music, even if nobody else sings along."
                      > > >
                      > > > Mary
                      > > >
                      > > > [1]"First, your return to shore was not part of our
                      negotiations
                      > nor
                      > > > our agreement, so I must do nothin'. And secondly, you must be
                      a
                      > > > pirate for the Pirate's Code to apply, and you're not. And
                      > thirdly,
                      > > > the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual
                      rules.
                      > > > Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner," says Barbossa" -
                      > > > Pirates of the Caribbean
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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