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The boycott and the law

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  • bhvwd
    Few things divide republicans as sharply as the immigration issue. Cheap labor tempts even the most xenophobic contractor or business man. The pure hate
    Message 1 of 5 , May 1, 2006
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      Few things divide republicans as sharply as the immigration issue.
      Cheap labor tempts even the most xenophobic contractor or business
      man. The pure hate mongerers just do not want people of color in the
      country, in their neighborhood or in their daughters bedroom. For
      these bigots this argument is really not about immigration, it is
      about racism and hate. The real debate centers directly in the
      republican business base. I`m sure they would rather exploit other
      white people but there are only so many poor , ignorant whites.
      The present laws are a porous hodge podge of special interest
      rules. The benificaries are the bosses while the losers are the
      rest of us and the illegals. The politicians know illegals do not
      vote and a political can use the issue to inflame or calm as needed
      for their vote getting purposes .Most politicians treat the matter
      as a third rail issue that is best left alone except in the back
      room. Here I think that smoke filled room has a pragmatic utility
      that can actually help solve this situation. Why not just ask the
      grower or contractor what his needs are in some appropriate time
      frame? A negotiated guest worker wage base could then be set. It
      might be below what US citisens would work for but it would be a
      taxed wage paid to documented workers. We could seal our borders
      against terrorists and drugs while supplying needed labor for our
      economy. For a change we would be acting in our national interest
      rather than in the benefit of special interests.With Mexico
      slipping closer to a narco state Americans can vacation loaded
      while having their lawn mowed and roads built while they are gone.
      We should all enjoy the proceeds of empire and money and pleasure
      still have sway. Bill
    • Exist List Moderator
      We must ask about the law, the borders, and what it means to live in a nation on this planet. As stated before, I think most of us pick and choose our laws,
      Message 2 of 5 , May 1, 2006
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        We must ask about the law, the borders, and what it means to live in a
        "nation" on this planet. As stated before, I think most of us pick and
        choose our laws, even if we think of ourselves as "legalists" in some
        way. I know I do what I can to follow *most* laws while breaking some I
        think of as minor. Yet, those distinctions are my own.

        If a nation is a group of people sharing a geographical, political, and
        cultural designation, then we need to ask how these elements interact.
        Some nations are formed by natural borders -- no one can claim
        Australia is an artificial construct. For the most part, the United
        States has three geographical (south, east, and west) borders, created
        by water (Rio Grande and two oceans) and inhospitable
        mountains/ranges). The US/Canadian border is a mix of geography and
        politics, especially west of the Great Lakes.

        Now, trapped on this mass of land, we established a culture over time
        -- it evolved for a variety of reasons. This culture is unique in some
        ways, while still tied loosely to the greater West. It is not the same
        culture as found to the South, and does differ from the more
        Continental ideals of Canada. Welcome to the United States.

        With the geographical and political lines drawn, what does it mean to
        be "American" versus "American" (the entire hemisphere)? What are the
        differences? What are the risks and implications of changes to borders?
        Why are our borders different than those of the EU? And once we answer
        these questions, solutions must be proposed.

        I am "American" and yet I can't fully explain it. I know I am not
        European -- I dismiss most of their democratic socialism as fragile for
        a variety of economic and political reasons. I am not Canadian, though
        I can't explain that distinction since most of the Canadians I do know
        are "conservative" by their standards.

        What am I? I have no clue. Californian? I know I'll be "Californian"
        when I live in Minnesota. I still don't know how I can tell the
        difference, but I can.

        All these mental meanderings to ask, what makes nationality and why
        does it matter? Mutual defense? If so, we must close the border
        immediately because the risks are real. Economic distribution? Then we
        should reconsider some "free trade" policies and close the ports to
        some unfair nations while balancing better with others. What is it I
        want to protect and what is its value?

        Wish I knew. I do know my liberal friends are upset because they fear
        immigration and NAFTA are taking jobs from the working class.
        Conservatives aren't sure if they support an open border or a fence
        with razor wire. (Libertarianism versus the fear of an attack through
        the borders or ports.)

        No easy answers... only questions. I would probably go with the fence
        and some sort of ID card shared among the US, Canada, and Mexico.
        Wouldn't that scare the radical libertarians? But, the libertarian in
        me supports free movement while understanding we need to protect
        ourselves.

        Whatever I am, whatever it is I am protecting,
        - CSW
      • louise
        Exist List Moderator wrote: I know I am not European -- I dismiss most of their democratic socialism as fragile for a variety of economic and political
        Message 3 of 5 , May 1, 2006
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          Exist List Moderator wrote:
          I know I am not European -- I dismiss most of their democratic
          socialism as fragile for a variety of economic and political reasons.

          You must be a highly political person, to make this kind of implicit
          identification. Today I spent mostly withindoors, reading texts (in
          the traditional sense), making notes, with some kind of continuous
          silent awareness, however fragile, such as I have probably not enjoyed
          these last seventeen years. It is a life I should end with some kind
          of imaginative suicide, harmless to passers-by (and accordingly
          invisible to them), if I ever thought to associate being a European
          with commitment to democratic socialism. How far has that phenomenon
          already destroyed so much that gives any meaning at all to the
          language which is my chief joy.

          Louise
        • louise
          ... reasons. ... implicit ... (in ... enjoyed ... kind ... European ... phenomenon ... hmm, actually should point out that this is rhetorical earnestness,
          Message 4 of 5 , May 1, 2006
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            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:
            >
            > Exist List Moderator wrote:
            > I know I am not European -- I dismiss most of their democratic
            > socialism as fragile for a variety of economic and political
            reasons.
            >
            > You must be a highly political person, to make this kind of
            implicit
            > identification. Today I spent mostly withindoors, reading texts
            (in
            > the traditional sense), making notes, with some kind of continuous
            > silent awareness, however fragile, such as I have probably not
            enjoyed
            > these last seventeen years. It is a life I should end with some
            kind
            > of imaginative suicide, harmless to passers-by (and accordingly
            > invisible to them), if I ever thought to associate being a
            European
            > with commitment to democratic socialism. How far has that
            phenomenon
            > already destroyed so much that gives any meaning at all to the
            > language which is my chief joy.
            >
            > Louise
            >

            hmm, actually should point out that this is rhetorical earnestness,
            since i do consider any suicide not motivated by genuine concern for
            life (in other words, decision taken whilst soberly aware of
            responsibility to others, of consequences for others) to be anything
            other than wicked. this is Christian view, i can say with
            reasonable confidence. at least am beginning to understand one of
            the many consequences of religious difference for those of us living
            in nations where many creeds are tolerated. there are suicides of
            hopelessness, suicides of defiance, suicides arising from complete
            inability to believe what death means ... given that cultural
            poverty is so acute life has not been experienced. i am totally
            opposed to political suicides.
          • mariaprophetessa
            ... wrote:
            Message 5 of 5 , May 2, 2006
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@...>
              wrote:

              <The present laws are a porous hodge podge of special interest rules.
              The benificaries are the bosses while the losers are the rest of us
              and the illegals.>

              What I enjoy about many of your posts? Action, optimism, survival.

              Mary
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