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Re: [existlist] Language..........

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  • Aija Veldre Beldavs
    Peter, i apologize for the hasty reference to your site as a link to my quote. i can t duplicate how i linked - must have been a keyword from your site plus a
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 18, 2006
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      Peter, i apologize for the hasty reference to your site as a link to my
      quote. i can't duplicate how i linked - must have been a keyword from
      your site plus a feature of my browser (your site doesn't have a direct
      link) recognizing my current interest in information systems.

      about the quote, what is the basis for determining which is prior,
      language or physical surroundings? i'm thinking of a two-part city on the
      border of two language families (not just languages): Estonian Valga/
      Latvian Valka as a possible test.

      aija

      > aija,
      >
      > What struck me about the quote is "One does not inhabit a country; one
      > inhabits a language" in the sense of being "thrown" into the context of
      > a language", that the speaking or writing of a language is more
      > formative to one's own sense of reality than the physical reality of a
      > country.
      >
      > I don't remember the ETech06 link however.
      >
      > -Peter C.
      >
      >
      >
      > > "One does not inhabit a country; one inhabits a language. That is our
      > > country, our fatherland---and no other."
      > > - Emile Cioran
      > > ARTIST'S BLOG - http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/
      >
      > 1) in some small countries many ordinary people inhabit a number of
      > languages out of necessity and they may not find it contradictory with
      > the
      > sense of body inhabiting ancestral land.
      >
      > 2) re-entering your site and following a link i was drawn toward the
      > questions posed by ETech06: Who will emerge as the gatekeepers of our
      > attention? What are the emerging social patterns and etiquette tweaks
      > of
      > the interrupt-driven society? What is the face of the
      > context-appropriate
      > interface? (happen to be reading Friedrich A. Kittler).
      >
      > 3) any rx from anyone who's seen the film -Lord of War- (2005, Nicolas
      > Cage)?
      >
      > aija
      >
      >
      > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
      >
      > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • cgi77@aol.com
      No need to apologize Aija, I just didn t get the reference! Language acquisition is still being quite hotly debated, especially in relation to things like
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 18, 2006
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        No need to apologize Aija, I just didn't get the reference!

        Language acquisition is still being quite hotly debated, especially in
        relation to things like Universal grammar/nature or nurture.
        My interest is more towards how words/language actually bring reality
        into being, and of course, who is it that is saying all these things in
        my head and who are they saying it to.

        -Peter C.
        http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Aija Veldre Beldavs <beldavsa@...>
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:28:00 -0500 (EST)
        Subject: Re: [existlist] Language..........


        Peter, i apologize for the hasty reference to your site as a link to my
        quote. i can't duplicate how i linked - must have been a keyword from
        your site plus a feature of my browser (your site doesn't have a direct
        link) recognizing my current interest in information systems.

        about the quote, what is the basis for determining which is prior,
        language or physical surroundings? i'm thinking of a two-part city on
        the
        border of two language families (not just languages): Estonian Valga/
        Latvian Valka as a possible test.

        aija

        > aija,
        >
        > What struck me about the quote is "One does not inhabit a country;
        one
        > inhabits a language" in the sense of being "thrown" into the context
        of
        > a language", that the speaking or writing of a language is more
        > formative to one's own sense of reality than the physical reality of a
        > country.
        >
        > I don't remember the ETech06 link however.
        >
        > -Peter C.
        >
        >
        >
        > > "One does not inhabit a country; one inhabits a language. That is
        our
        > > country, our fatherland---and no other."
        > > - Emile Cioran
        > > ARTIST'S BLOG - http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/
        >
        > 1) in some small countries many ordinary people inhabit a number of
        > languages out of necessity and they may not find it contradictory
        with
        > the
        > sense of body inhabiting ancestral land.
        >
        > 2) re-entering your site and following a link i was drawn toward the
        > questions posed by ETech06: Who will emerge as the gatekeepers of our
        > attention? What are the emerging social patterns and etiquette tweaks
        > of
        > the interrupt-driven society? What is the face of the
        > context-appropriate
        > interface? (happen to be reading Friedrich A. Kittler).
        >
        > 3) any rx from anyone who's seen the film -Lord of War- (2005, Nicolas
        > Cage)?
        >
        > aija
        >
        >
        > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
        nothing!
        >
        > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
        nothing!

        Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • peno hardesty
        when the native people of the americas were denied their language they were denied their culture. today, many elders are encouraging the young to learn their
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 18, 2006
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          when the native people of the americas were denied
          their language they were denied their culture. today,
          many elders are encouraging the young to learn their
          language thereby learn who they are. much is lost in
          translation, much is gained in truth.----p

          --- cgi77@... wrote:

          > aija,
          >
          > What struck me about the quote is "One does not
          > inhabit a country; one
          > inhabits a language" in the sense of being "thrown"
          > into the context of
          > a language", that the speaking or writing of a
          > language is more
          > formative to one's own sense of reality than the
          > physical reality of a
          > country.
          >
          > I don't remember the ETech06 link however.
          >
          > -Peter C.
          >
          >
          >
          > > "One does not inhabit a country; one inhabits a
          > language. That is our
          > > country, our fatherland---and no other."
          > > - Emile Cioran
          > > ARTIST'S BLOG -
          > http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/
          >
          > 1) in some small countries many ordinary people
          > inhabit a number of
          > languages out of necessity and they may not find
          > it contradictory with
          > the
          > sense of body inhabiting ancestral land.
          >
          > 2) re-entering your site and following a link i was
          > drawn toward the
          > questions posed by ETech06: Who will emerge as the
          > gatekeepers of our
          > attention? What are the emerging social patterns
          > and etiquette tweaks
          > of
          > the interrupt-driven society? What is the face of
          > the
          > context-appropriate
          > interface? (happen to be reading Friedrich A.
          > Kittler).
          >
          > 3) any rx from anyone who's seen the film -Lord of
          > War- (2005, Nicolas
          > Cage)?
          >
          > aija
          >


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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        • cgi77@aol.com
          Mary Jo, I agree that I think he meant culture in the context of that quote, but again, I am stuck on the magical qualities of language, out use and misuse,
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 18, 2006
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            Mary Jo,
            I agree that I think he meant culture in the context of that quote,
            but again, I am stuck on the magical qualities of language, out use and
            misuse, and its power to create and destroy, thinking here also of
            Buddhist "Right Speech", that seem to trump culture/country/environment.

            -Peter C.


            -----Original Message-----
            From: mariaprophetessa <mariaprophetessa@...>
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:27:46 -0000
            Subject: [existlist] Re: Language..........

            Peter,

            This is a very interesting subject. But it doesn't have to be
            either/or. There are shades of various combinations. I would say land
            rather than country, but I don't really know the context of Cioran's
            statement. He was such a painfully alienated individual. Country can
            mean nation or culture, etc. Culture would include language. It's
            simpler for me to say that I live in my head/mind/brain and*
            sometimes in my body and natural environment. For me anyway, it's a
            struggle for balance. We don't exist without an environment, and like
            aija said, some inhabit several languages. What about when people
            immigrate and have to learn a new language in a new surroundings?
            This is probably an area for language theory. Existentialism,
            language, and literature/arts are related. Of course we can't forget
            the sciences which have set existentialism on its ears. I see your
            art as a commingling of all these.

            Mary Jo

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, cgi77@... wrote:
            >
            > aija,
            >
            > What struck me about the quote is "One does not inhabit a
            country; one
            > inhabits a language" in the sense of being "thrown" into the
            context of
            > a language", that the speaking or writing of a language is more
            > formative to one's own sense of reality than the physical reality
            of a
            > country.
            >
            > I don't remember the ETech06 link however.
            >
            > -Peter C.
            >
            >
            >
            > > "One does not inhabit a country; one inhabits a language. That
            is our
            > > country, our fatherland---and no other."
            > > - Emile Cioran
            > > ARTIST'S BLOG - http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/
            >
            > 1) in some small countries many ordinary people inhabit a number of
            > languages out of necessity and they may not find it contradictory
            with
            > the
            > sense of body inhabiting ancestral land.
            >
            > 2) re-entering your site and following a link i was drawn toward
            the
            > questions posed by ETech06: Who will emerge as the gatekeepers of
            our
            > attention? What are the emerging social patterns and etiquette
            tweaks
            > of
            > the interrupt-driven society? What is the face of the
            > context-appropriate
            > interface? (happen to be reading Friedrich A. Kittler).
            >
            > 3) any rx from anyone who's seen the film -Lord of War- (2005,
            Nicolas
            > Cage)?
            >
            > aija
            >






            Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
            nothing!

            Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • mariaprophetessa
            The power & abuse of language and freedom of speech are controversial topics. They re also highly subjective and tangled up with ethics and morality. Are you
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 19, 2006
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              The power & abuse of language and freedom of speech are controversial
              topics. They're also highly subjective and tangled up with ethics and
              morality. Are you referring to public (and therefore political), or
              do you mean personal (private relationships)? I often waiver between
              a hope for language to accomplish something spectacular and a
              cynicism from what I perceive. Namely, it isn't that we aren't
              communicating well with one another, but that we disagree with one
              another. Language was probably, originally very practical. It's
              evolved into a memetic monster. I can't decide if it creates a
              dangerous, mindless consensus or helps the individual by providing
              useful information to fight group-speak. Probably both. Maybe
              language is simply a toolbox which contains appropriate tools for the
              task at hand. Generally, it's used to attempt the impossible, to
              create an objective reality in order to end the alienation that
              troubles. From caveman grunts to poetry, philosophy and cosmology -
              we've come so far to realize we sometimes need to talk about
              something, or is that nothing?

              Mary Jo
              ______
              To devastate by language, to blow up the word and with it the world.
              (Cioran)

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, cgi77@... wrote:
              >
              > Mary Jo,
              > I agree that I think he meant culture in the context of that
              quote,
              > but again, I am stuck on the magical qualities of language, out use
              and
              > misuse, and its power to create and destroy, thinking here also of
              > Buddhist "Right Speech", that seem to trump
              culture/country/environment.
            • cgi77@aol.com
              The other day someone spoke of the violent distance between individuals . That resonated for me as another source of despair and I considered it in the
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 19, 2006
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                The other day someone spoke of "the violent distance between
                individuals". That resonated for me as another source of despair and I
                considered it in the context of language. I think the quote was derived
                from Elaine Scarry, which would place it in a totally different context
                perhaps, but it made me leap to considering the ways in which we bridge
                that distance between individuals, sight/touch/language and the perhaps
                unavoidable violence that lives there.
                Yes, I guess I am thinking here of private/personal and not political.





                -Peter
                http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/


                -----Original Message-----
                From: mariaprophetessa <mariaprophetessa@...>
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:59:42 -0000
                Subject: [existlist] Re: Language..........

                The power & abuse of language and freedom of speech are controversial
                topics. They're also highly subjective and tangled up with ethics and
                morality. Are you referring to public (and therefore political), or
                do you mean personal (private relationships)? I often waiver between
                a hope for language to accomplish something spectacular and a
                cynicism from what I perceive. Namely, it isn't that we aren't
                communicating well with one another, but that we disagree with one
                another. Language was probably, originally very practical. It's
                evolved into a memetic monster. I can't decide if it creates a
                dangerous, mindless consensus or helps the individual by providing
                useful information to fight group-speak. Probably both. Maybe
                language is simply a toolbox which contains appropriate tools for the
                task at hand. Generally, it's used to attempt the impossible, to
                create an objective reality in order to end the alienation that
                troubles. From caveman grunts to poetry, philosophy and cosmology -
                we've come so far to realize we sometimes need to talk about
                something, or is that nothing?

                Mary Jo
                ______
                To devastate by language, to blow up the word and with it the world.
                (Cioran)

                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, cgi77@... wrote:
                >
                > Mary Jo,
                > I agree that I think he meant culture in the context of that
                quote,
                > but again, I am stuck on the magical qualities of language, out use
                and
                > misuse, and its power to create and destroy, thinking here also of
                > Buddhist "Right Speech", that seem to trump
                culture/country/environment.






                Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
                nothing!

                Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • louise
                Yes, that is somewhat clarifying, Peter, for one who finds difficulty in seeing how unpolitical are most who lay claim to thought. I feel as if I fought long
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 19, 2006
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                  Yes, that is somewhat clarifying, Peter, for one who finds
                  difficulty in seeing how unpolitical are most who lay claim to
                  thought. I feel as if I fought long and hard at this list not to be
                  political, because my chief interests did not lie in that
                  direction. It is true, nevertheless, that genuine political
                  understanding provides the key for any individual hopes in this
                  world to be more than piecemeal and fortuitous. In wanting to
                  preserve my own integrity and to secure conditions for fulfilling my
                  own spirit, with its particular interests and history, I find it
                  impossible, in fact, not to will something similar for my own tribe
                  or nation, and beyond that, by extension, for the entire population
                  of the earth. Realism and responsibility oblige me to acknowledge
                  that I may in fact care for only a small number of human or other
                  sentient individuals, yet that in no way renders meaningless to me
                  the daily questions about how to spend my time, questions which thus
                  far continue to have a background, a context, which is political.
                  Only if my homeland were to be transformed politically, would I be
                  able to forget politics entirely ... unless some other change were
                  to occur, which took out of the political realm my sense of how to
                  exercise ethical responsibility as a human being within society. As
                  things stand, I have no comparable experience to set beside this
                  sense of "the violent distance between individuals". My lack of
                  response to a large proportion of Western artistic work since the
                  1920s may be connected to this. I don't despair about life at all,
                  only about indifference. Louise


                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, cgi77@... wrote:
                  >
                  > The other day someone spoke of "the violent distance between
                  > individuals". That resonated for me as another source of despair
                  and I
                  > considered it in the context of language. I think the quote was
                  derived
                  > from Elaine Scarry, which would place it in a totally different
                  context
                  > perhaps, but it made me leap to considering the ways in which we
                  bridge
                  > that distance between individuals, sight/touch/language and the
                  perhaps
                  > unavoidable violence that lives there.
                  > Yes, I guess I am thinking here of private/personal and not
                  political.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -Peter
                  > http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: mariaprophetessa <mariaprophetessa@...>
                  > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:59:42 -0000
                  > Subject: [existlist] Re: Language..........
                  >
                  > The power & abuse of language and freedom of speech are
                  controversial
                  > topics. They're also highly subjective and tangled up with ethics
                  and
                  > morality. Are you referring to public (and therefore political), or
                  > do you mean personal (private relationships)? I often waiver
                  between
                  > a hope for language to accomplish something spectacular and a
                  > cynicism from what I perceive. Namely, it isn't that we aren't
                  > communicating well with one another, but that we disagree with one
                  > another. Language was probably, originally very practical. It's
                  > evolved into a memetic monster. I can't decide if it creates a
                  > dangerous, mindless consensus or helps the individual by providing
                  > useful information to fight group-speak. Probably both. Maybe
                  > language is simply a toolbox which contains appropriate tools for
                  the
                  > task at hand. Generally, it's used to attempt the impossible, to
                  > create an objective reality in order to end the alienation that
                  > troubles. From caveman grunts to poetry, philosophy and cosmology -
                  > we've come so far to realize we sometimes need to talk about
                  > something, or is that nothing?
                  >
                  > Mary Jo
                  > ______
                  > To devastate by language, to blow up the word and with it the
                  world.
                  > (Cioran)
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, cgi77@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Mary Jo,
                  > > I agree that I think he meant culture in the context of that
                  > quote,
                  > > but again, I am stuck on the magical qualities of language, out
                  use
                  > and
                  > > misuse, and its power to create and destroy, thinking here also
                  of
                  > > Buddhist "Right Speech", that seem to trump
                  > culture/country/environment.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
                  > nothing!
                  >
                  > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
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