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Re: flockless

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  • louise
    [Albert] Might there be a better argument out there than pop-psycho criticism of the believer that God does not exist ? Louise Are you implying that SK asserts
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 2, 2006
      [Albert]
      Might there be a better argument out there than pop-psycho criticism
      of the believer that God does not exist ?

      Louise
      Are you implying that SK asserts the non-existence of God?? It would
      be rather important, in that case, we clarify and argue over the
      concepts of existence, essence, transcendence, etc. Personally,
      though, I believe his pseudonymous works and his journals do not leave
      us with any such arid discussion, and I feel little qualified, myself,
      to engage at an abstract level, especially if you have not read and
      loved his works. He writes about human existence, suffering, grief,
      love, art, labour, consolation, motherhood, innocence, social
      compromise, you name it.
    • Albert
      Louise You shrug me off with little regard. I do apologise for not loving and reading all SK s works. It seems to me you have much respect for SK as I have
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 2, 2006
        Louise

        You shrug me off with little regard. I do apologise for not loving and reading all SK's works. It seems to me you have much respect for SK as I have much respect for Freud. However, they both have, so far as my limited research might go, to have the same arguments. And I am saying that these arguments in regard to the existence of God are bias and feeble, and yes, they do more than imply the non-existence of God.

        But your not so subtle attempt not to debate with me is accepted.

        Albert.





        ----- Original Message -----
        From: louise
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:41 PM
        Subject: [existlist] Re: flockless


        [Albert]
        Might there be a better argument out there than pop-psycho criticism
        of the believer that God does not exist ?

        Louise
        Are you implying that SK asserts the non-existence of God?? It would
        be rather important, in that case, we clarify and argue over the
        concepts of existence, essence, transcendence, etc. Personally,
        though, I believe his pseudonymous works and his journals do not leave
        us with any such arid discussion, and I feel little qualified, myself,
        to engage at an abstract level, especially if you have not read and
        loved his works. He writes about human existence, suffering, grief,
        love, art, labour, consolation, motherhood, innocence, social
        compromise, you name it.






        Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

        Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



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      • louise
        Albert, You amaze me. From my perspective, your response seems staggeringly narcissistic. We are not acquainted - how may I shrug you off?? If I have
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 2, 2006
          Albert,

          You amaze me. From my perspective, your response seems staggeringly
          narcissistic. We are not acquainted - how may I shrug you off?? If
          I have incorrectly inferred that you had read little of Kierkegaard,
          and cared less, I apologise. I was just, well, gobsmacked, that
          both you and Bill seemed to see him as an agnostic. Knowing
          virtually nothing if Freud's work, I am not qualified to debate on
          that subject.

          Regards,
          Louise

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert" <al_d@...> wrote:
          >
          > Louise
          >
          > You shrug me off with little regard. I do apologise for not loving
          and reading all SK's works. It seems to me you have much respect for
          SK as I have much respect for Freud. However, they both have, so far
          as my limited research might go, to have the same arguments. And I
          am saying that these arguments in regard to the existence of God are
          bias and feeble, and yes, they do more than imply the non-existence
          of God.
          >
          > But your not so subtle attempt not to debate with me is accepted.
          >
          > Albert.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: louise
          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:41 PM
          > Subject: [existlist] Re: flockless
          >
          >
          > [Albert]
          > Might there be a better argument out there than pop-psycho
          criticism
          > of the believer that God does not exist ?
          >
          > Louise
          > Are you implying that SK asserts the non-existence of God?? It
          would
          > be rather important, in that case, we clarify and argue over the
          > concepts of existence, essence, transcendence, etc. Personally,
          > though, I believe his pseudonymous works and his journals do not
          leave
          > us with any such arid discussion, and I feel little qualified,
          myself,
          > to engage at an abstract level, especially if you have not read
          and
          > loved his works. He writes about human existence, suffering,
          grief,
          > love, art, labour, consolation, motherhood, innocence, social
          > compromise, you name it.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          nothing!
          >
          > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
          >
          >
          >
          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
          -----------
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          > a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.
          >
          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
          of Service.
          >
          >
          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
          -----------
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
          -----------
          >
          >
          > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date:
          2/1/2006
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Albert
          Louise I might well be narcissistic, this is in my mind a healthy thing, though I doubt you meant it in the way I like to think of it. You are the most passive
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 2, 2006
            Louise

            I might well be narcissistic, this is in my mind a healthy thing, though I doubt you meant it in the way I like to think of it. You are the most passive aggressive person I have ever met !

            You shrugged me off essentially by telling me that I did not know SK and that therefore the matter was not worth discussing to you.

            All I want is a reasonable argument. For example, I think it was Plato who said "...order implies a creator...". This statement supports the hypothesis that God exists. SK criticising the believer does not support the hypothesis that God does not exist. My criticism of SK, is that he is actually trying to prove to his reader that God does not exist by criticising the believer in this way. This is what I meant by "pop-psychology criticism".

            Now before we go any further, I do not actually support any of these two hypotheses, I am merely asking you, an avid reader of SK, to defend him with an argument that does actually support the idea that God does not exist.

            Even kinder regards
            Albert




            ----- Original Message -----
            From: louise
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 8:18 PM
            Subject: [existlist] Re: flockless


            Albert,

            You amaze me. From my perspective, your response seems staggeringly
            narcissistic. We are not acquainted - how may I shrug you off?? If
            I have incorrectly inferred that you had read little of Kierkegaard,
            and cared less, I apologise. I was just, well, gobsmacked, that
            both you and Bill seemed to see him as an agnostic. Knowing
            virtually nothing if Freud's work, I am not qualified to debate on
            that subject.

            Regards,
            Louise

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert" <al_d@...> wrote:
            >
            > Louise
            >
            > You shrug me off with little regard. I do apologise for not loving
            and reading all SK's works. It seems to me you have much respect for
            SK as I have much respect for Freud. However, they both have, so far
            as my limited research might go, to have the same arguments. And I
            am saying that these arguments in regard to the existence of God are
            bias and feeble, and yes, they do more than imply the non-existence
            of God.
            >
            > But your not so subtle attempt not to debate with me is accepted.
            >
            > Albert.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: louise
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:41 PM
            > Subject: [existlist] Re: flockless
            >
            >
            > [Albert]
            > Might there be a better argument out there than pop-psycho
            criticism
            > of the believer that God does not exist ?
            >
            > Louise
            > Are you implying that SK asserts the non-existence of God?? It
            would
            > be rather important, in that case, we clarify and argue over the
            > concepts of existence, essence, transcendence, etc. Personally,
            > though, I believe his pseudonymous works and his journals do not
            leave
            > us with any such arid discussion, and I feel little qualified,
            myself,
            > to engage at an abstract level, especially if you have not read
            and
            > loved his works. He writes about human existence, suffering,
            grief,
            > love, art, labour, consolation, motherhood, innocence, social
            > compromise, you name it.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
            nothing!
            >
            > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
            >
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            > a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
            of Service.
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date:
            2/1/2006
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >






            Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

            Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

            a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.

            b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------




            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: 2/1/2006


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Albert
            Louise And yes, I write financial accounting systems for a living. I am not very learned when it comes to the arts. This is not to say though that I am
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 2, 2006
              Louise

              And yes, I write financial accounting systems for a living. I am not very learned when it comes to the arts. This is not to say though that I am completely left brain dominant.
              But please indulge me ?

              Albert.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: louise
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 8:18 PM
              Subject: [existlist] Re: flockless


              Albert,

              You amaze me. From my perspective, your response seems staggeringly
              narcissistic. We are not acquainted - how may I shrug you off?? If
              I have incorrectly inferred that you had read little of Kierkegaard,
              and cared less, I apologise. I was just, well, gobsmacked, that
              both you and Bill seemed to see him as an agnostic. Knowing
              virtually nothing if Freud's work, I am not qualified to debate on
              that subject.

              Regards,
              Louise

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert" <al_d@...> wrote:
              >
              > Louise
              >
              > You shrug me off with little regard. I do apologise for not loving
              and reading all SK's works. It seems to me you have much respect for
              SK as I have much respect for Freud. However, they both have, so far
              as my limited research might go, to have the same arguments. And I
              am saying that these arguments in regard to the existence of God are
              bias and feeble, and yes, they do more than imply the non-existence
              of God.
              >
              > But your not so subtle attempt not to debate with me is accepted.
              >
              > Albert.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: louise
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:41 PM
              > Subject: [existlist] Re: flockless
              >
              >
              > [Albert]
              > Might there be a better argument out there than pop-psycho
              criticism
              > of the believer that God does not exist ?
              >
              > Louise
              > Are you implying that SK asserts the non-existence of God?? It
              would
              > be rather important, in that case, we clarify and argue over the
              > concepts of existence, essence, transcendence, etc. Personally,
              > though, I believe his pseudonymous works and his journals do not
              leave
              > us with any such arid discussion, and I feel little qualified,
              myself,
              > to engage at an abstract level, especially if you have not read
              and
              > loved his works. He writes about human existence, suffering,
              grief,
              > love, art, labour, consolation, motherhood, innocence, social
              > compromise, you name it.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
              nothing!
              >
              > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
              >
              >
              >
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
              -----------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
              of Service.
              >
              >
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
              -----------
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
              -----------
              >
              >
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date:
              2/1/2006
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >






              Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

              Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

              a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.

              b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------




              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: 2/1/2006


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • louise
              ... though I doubt you meant it in the way I like to think of it. You are the most passive aggressive person I have ever met ! ... SK and that therefore the
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 2, 2006
                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Albert" <al_d@...> wrote:
                >
                > Louise
                >
                > I might well be narcissistic, this is in my mind a healthy thing,
                though I doubt you meant it in the way I like to think of it. You
                are the most passive aggressive person I have ever met !
                >
                > You shrugged me off essentially by telling me that I did not know
                SK and that therefore the matter was not worth discussing to you.
                >
                > All I want is a reasonable argument. For example, I think it was
                Plato who said "...order implies a creator...". This statement
                supports the hypothesis that God exists. SK criticising the believer
                does not support the hypothesis that God does not exist. My
                criticism of SK, is that he is actually trying to prove to his
                reader that God does not exist by criticising the believer in this
                way. This is what I meant by "pop-psychology criticism".
                >
                > Now before we go any further, I do not actually support any of
                these two hypotheses, I am merely asking you, an avid reader of SK,
                to defend him with an argument that does actually support the idea
                that God does not exist.
                >
                > Even kinder regards
                > Albert


                Albert,

                First of all, as someone embroiled at present in the variously
                sympathetic and scary meshes of the British judicial and psychiatric
                systems, your description of me as passive-aggressive, though not
                offensive, reads to one of my persuasion as a political statement.
                If I expanded on my theories - which would take too long, anyway - I
                don't really expect you would be convinced. In any case, Susan
                (currently acting as moderator), whilst tolerant of the complexities
                of this intellective bind I'm in, would prefer psychiatric matters
                to be discussed elsewhere. My first Yahoo group, to this day a
                welcome haven to me, welcomes anyone genuinely interested in what
                the mental medics call schizophrenia. An e-mail to my own address,
                and I should be happy to direct you there. Actually, my own [self-]
                diagnosis these days would be manic-depressive, but I distrust
                labels in general. I love narcissism, to be open with you, and wish
                only for the liberty to express my own. Well, that 'only' is
                probably misleading. It is my commitment to paradox and dialectic
                which gives the impression of belligerence (in my opinion).
                Your second paragraph is untrue, and I explained my meaning in my
                reply to you, and apologised!
                What do you mean by 'SK criticising the believer'?? He only
                criticises the hypocrisy and complacency of those who claim belief
                in the Creator he passionately loves, a committed love without
                illusion (within the given parameters). The apostle Paul, for
                instance, described himself and other converts as 'the offscourings
                of the earth'. He expected persecution, resisted lawfully, and
                fought the good fight.
                Anyway, all this explanation is intended to clear the way for
                existential debate. To discuss faith itself is off-topic, so far as
                I understand the moderators' interpretation of the rules.

                Regards,
                Louise
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