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Re: Said encounters Sartre

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  • mer_e_jo
    Louise, I thought it was an interesting article, two things in particular. The French Existentialists were elderly. Sartre was near death. Beauvoir had
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 3, 2006
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      Louise,

      I thought it was an interesting article, two things in particular.
      The French Existentialists were elderly. Sartre was near death.
      Beauvoir had retained her version of ex. and fully absorbed by her
      second sex theory. It might not have been realistic for Said to
      expect much from them. Their batons were not being picked up and
      passed on; they were left on the ground; pretty much where they
      remain today.

      As for Sartre's pro Israel stance, he was under the "spell" of his
      young Jewish and Marxist friend, much to the chagrin of Simone. I
      suspect that had he lived longer with his mind intact, he might have
      devoted more attention to the Palestinian cause with all the energy
      and attention he gave to other causes.

      I would have expected them to consider all sides and suggest a
      compromise which is what they did immediately following WWII. The
      practice of personal existentialism, whatever that means, seems to
      have usurped the political practice in our new century. There is a
      small window of opportunity to extinguish the perpetual flashpoint in
      those ancient lands. If the voices of moderation and compromise don't
      succeed, I fear our world is headed to a place where . . . well,
      let's just say, I don't know if I really want to be around to see how
      bad things will be. There really are times when I doubt the wisdom of
      bringing children in this world.

      Mary

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mer_e_jo" <mer_e_jo@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Who said?
      > >
      > > http://www.lrb.co.uk/v22/n11/said01_.html
      > >
      >
      > an excellent article, Mary, just when i needed some cheer. that
      is,
      > not much good news concerning fifty years of anguish in that part
      of
      > the world [where God first created His garden], but what a
      wonderful
      > insight into the French literary scene. the depiction of Sartre is
      > realistic and tender. then i consulted Wikipedia. so Mr. Said was
      > raised in a Christian Arab family, and has written about Islam,
      > among his many scholarly works.
      >
      > anyway, i keep coming back to the repeated question, what is
      > existentialism, especially since we have newbies arriving asking
      > just that. onward and onward.
      >
      > Louise
      >
    • peno hardesty
      so, if it would be unwise to bring children into the world, have we then reached a thought, a theory, indeed a conclusion, that we are as good as it gets ?
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 3, 2006
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        so, if it would be unwise to bring children into the
        world, have we then reached a thought, a theory,
        indeed a conclusion, that we are as good as it gets ?
        some think of "end times" as punishment and pain,
        others see "purification" and re-birth. Hopi speak and
        the wind listens, preachers speak and the world
        shivers-----why does discourse about ancient times and
        ancient stories, ancient peoples and future
        devastation always revolve around certain geographical
        places? time began-----it is not geographical---time
        is---simple----open conscience and awareness to see
        all-----p

        --- mer_e_jo <mer_e_jo@...> wrote:

        > Louise,
        >
        > I thought it was an interesting article, two things
        > in particular.
        > The French Existentialists were elderly. Sartre was
        > near death.
        > Beauvoir had retained her version of ex. and fully
        > absorbed by her
        > second sex theory. It might not have been realistic
        > for Said to
        > expect much from them. Their batons were not being
        > picked up and
        > passed on; they were left on the ground; pretty much
        > where they
        > remain today.
        >
        > As for Sartre's pro Israel stance, he was under the
        > "spell" of his
        > young Jewish and Marxist friend, much to the chagrin
        > of Simone. I
        > suspect that had he lived longer with his mind
        > intact, he might have
        > devoted more attention to the Palestinian cause with
        > all the energy
        > and attention he gave to other causes.
        >
        > I would have expected them to consider all sides and
        > suggest a
        > compromise which is what they did immediately
        > following WWII. The
        > practice of personal existentialism, whatever that
        > means, seems to
        > have usurped the political practice in our new
        > century. There is a
        > small window of opportunity to extinguish the
        > perpetual flashpoint in
        > those ancient lands. If the voices of moderation and
        > compromise don't
        > succeed, I fear our world is headed to a place where
        > . . . well,
        > let's just say, I don't know if I really want to be
        > around to see how
        > bad things will be. There really are times when I
        > doubt the wisdom of
        > bringing children in this world.
        >
        > Mary
        >
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise"
        > <hecubatoher@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mer_e_jo"
        > <mer_e_jo@y...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Who said?
        > > >
        > > > http://www.lrb.co.uk/v22/n11/said01_.html
        > > >
        > >
        > > an excellent article, Mary, just when i needed
        > some cheer. that
        > is,
        > > not much good news concerning fifty years of
        > anguish in that part
        > of
        > > the world [where God first created His garden],
        > but what a
        > wonderful
        > > insight into the French literary scene. the
        > depiction of Sartre is
        > > realistic and tender. then i consulted Wikipedia.
        > so Mr. Said was
        > > raised in a Christian Arab family, and has written
        > about Islam,
        > > among his many scholarly works.
        > >
        > > anyway, i keep coming back to the repeated
        > question, what is
        > > existentialism, especially since we have newbies
        > arriving asking
        > > just that. onward and onward.
        > >
        > > Louise
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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      • Exist List Moderator
        ... Personally, I think we as people are as good as it gets, but life / living conditions will continue to improve for people over the next century. There
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 4, 2006
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          On Jan 03, 2006, at 11:43, peno hardesty wrote:

          > so, if it would be unwise to bring children into the
          > world, have we then reached a thought, a theory,
          > indeed a conclusion, that we are as good as it gets ?

          Personally, I think "we" as people are as good as it gets, but life /
          living conditions will continue to improve for people over the next
          century. There are two different issues, in my view.

          Is human nature likely to change? I do not think so. I think we will
          continue to have dominant personalities, sociopaths, bullies, and
          criminals of various sorts. There will be tyrants and wars. If
          anything, we will probably see at least one more use of nuclear weapons
          in the next century and a biological attack.

          Despite this, life will improve for most people. It's not a steady
          improvement, but rather a series of peaks and valleys. No one during
          WWI or WWII would have imagined the relative calm of modern Europe. I
          have to believe Russia's current backslide will reverse, for any number
          of self-serving reasons. The same is true of China. Self-serving
          decisions made to "save" the Chinese leadership might eventually
          improve life for everyone in China -- but not tomorrow or even this
          decade.

          So, while we are as good as humanity is likely to get over the next few
          hundred years, meaning our personal flaws will remain in the species,
          the world will continue to improve despite occasional disasters. The
          disasters will seem terrible -- like the end of the world -- but we
          will probably rebound.

          On the flip side, I do wonder if the world of man is the best place for
          yet one more life. It is a decision we are compelled to make
          biologically, I think, but not at all logical. Trust me, I love
          children and yet know many are destined to suffer. Such is life.

          - C. S. Wyatt
          I am what I am at this moment, not what I was and certainly not all
          that I shall be.
          http://www.tameri.com - Tameri Guide for Writers
          http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist - The Existential Primer
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