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Running On Empty (part two)

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  • Trinidad Cruz
    Running On Empty (part 2) We know very little about ourselves. We know very little about our planet. We know very little about the universe. The passing of our
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 23, 2005
      Running On Empty
      (part 2)

      We know very little about ourselves. We know very little about our
      planet. We know very little about the universe. The passing of our
      days here, if we are reasonably intelligent and even marginally
      educated, is like drifting down relentlessly deeper into an ever
      darkening abyss of what there is to know about these things - most
      especially if we are attempting to know something with any rigor.
      Scientific education in this age carries with it a profound and
      natural terror – an accepted metahypothesis that one can only
      contribute minutely to scientific understanding in the course of a
      whole lifetime of dedication, and beyond that, any meaningful
      illuminating discovery only reveals around itself a greater newer
      darkness of what is not known. The true scientist approaches this as a
      fact of time and the pursuit of understanding; again a metahypothesis
      denying the existence of irony in any scientific endeavor to
      understand. A man once observed a volcanic eruption and assumed fire
      boiled up out of the earth. A man once observed lightening strike a
      tree and assumed fire fell from the sky. A man once observed that
      warmth and light could be had from fire and began experiments to learn
      how to personally ignite fire, or as some have argued a man saw in the
      mastery of fire a weapon to strike fear in his enemies or play God for
      his cultural peers, or as others have argued perhaps a knowledge or
      expertise to barter for venison or fish. Though these seemingly
      different motives indeed have different after the fact sociological
      ramifications, the motives are actually all the same – to find for
      oneself greater comfort in life. The pursuit of comfort in a hostile
      environment has driven men to scientific endeavor. The scientific
      endeavor is figuring out how to ignite the fire, not the pursuit of
      the comfort of knowing how to ignite the fire. Though a man may be
      concerned with comfort before and after the fact, while seized in the
      process of understanding how to do something with the fabric of the
      universe he has come of, he has reached a higher more timeless area of
      species expression where comfort has no meaning – as is indeed the
      real though unaccepted "truth" for any member of the human race
      today. Comfort provides no solace to the whole man. It means something
      to him only in those he comforts. For the whole man has accepted
      species-wide responsibility precisely because of rigorously
      scientifically ascertaining his personal limitations. Pragmatism lays
      this responsibility easily aside by seizing its primary dynamism from
      sociological devlopment. We may hardly characterize it as a rugged
      individualism of a whole man, when it seeks solution of a seething
      mass of cultural implementation, and considers the best solution the
      most comfortable. In this it historically excuses religion and
      literary fantasy to the point of fascism if indeed comfort appears to
      be at all on the horizon. We may compose an endless thesaurus of
      terminology for philosophical views, yet there are only two – the
      pragmatic or the scientific. Every human being switches back and forth
      between them constantly, but overwhelmingly in general the human race
      goes about its daily life with a pragmatic view with only the
      occasional foray into scientific discovery. The work of hard science
      has simply grown quite difficult. Existential angst; the yearning for
      rest, the yearning for comfort, the yearning for safety, is all the
      direct result of an apelike pragmatic view unable to accept the
      limitations of being something newer – a man. It is the frustrated
      monkey unable to suffer the grand sorrow of manhood.

      Trinidad Cruz
    • Robert Keyes
      Devils Advocate Mood. Comments below(Bob..) ... From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trinidad Cruz Sent: Friday,
      Message 2 of 2 , Sep 23, 2005
        Devils Advocate Mood.
        Comments below(Bob..)

        -----Original Message-----
        From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Trinidad Cruz
        Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:45 PM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [existlist] Running On Empty (part two)

        Running On Empty
        (part 2)

        We know very little about ourselves.


        [Robert Keyes] This is deep. Thought about it for 2 minutes, My conclusion
        is that statement may be poetry...






        We know very little about our
        planet. We know very little about the universe.


        Robert Keyes] Disagree, we know a lot. There is a solid Theory (Of course
        math based) that has it figured out from 1 sec after the Big Bang till now.
        I think that is accomplishment. Question: If we know the General Picture is
        a Fact, does it really Matter the details. Does it really matter the next
        level of physics to only discover another level that you can conceive of.
        Will Physics ever stop the Hunt for Superstrings. And then what are the
        superstrings made of. The fact we don't know these things does not matter to
        the big picture. Humans may have got it right already with the FIRST law of
        Thermodynamics, Matter can be Created Nor Destroyed. If Matter exists its
        here forever, i.e. it cannot be destroyed (assuming the law is true of
        course). If Matter was not here it could not be created. (again assuming the
        law is true). So what do we make of this... I think the logic can be carried
        farther. (wont at the moment, want to play chess)



        The passing of our
        days here, if we are reasonably intelligent and even marginally
        educated, is like drifting down relentlessly deeper into an ever
        darkening abyss of what there is to know about these things - most
        especially if we are attempting to know something with any rigor.




        [Robert Keyes] No Human can understand more than 1 sub sub sub sub sub topic
        of anything with Rigor. We are way to dumb for that... I am speaking on
        behalf of the 99.99999 percent club...






        Scientific education in this age carries with it a profound and
        natural terror - an accepted metahypothesis that one can only
        contribute minutely to scientific understanding in the course of a
        whole lifetime of dedication,



        [Robert Keyes] Super great point !!




        and beyond that, any meaningful
        illuminating discovery only reveals around itself a greater newer
        darkness of what is not known.



        [Robert Keyes] I think the big picture is known. I honestly don't think the
        details bother people. Plus if you dig too deep in one subject it takes away
        from others, and most subjects/concepts overlap.... (Mainly because are ape
        brains cannot adhere nor follow logic very far-some humor)




        The true scientist approaches this as a
        fact of time and the pursuit of understanding; again a metahypothesis
        denying the existence of irony in any scientific endeavor to
        understand. A man once observed a volcanic eruption and assumed fire
        boiled up out of the earth. A man once observed lightening strike a
        tree and assumed fire fell from the sky. A man once observed that
        warmth and light could be had from fire and began experiments to learn
        how to personally ignite fire, or as some have argued a man saw in the
        mastery of fire a weapon to strike fear in his enemies or play God for
        his cultural peers, or as others have argued perhaps a knowledge or
        expertise to barter for venison or fish. Though these seemingly
        different motives indeed have different after the fact sociological
        ramifications, the motives are actually all the same -
        to find for
        oneself greater comfort in life.



        [Robert Keyes] True, Humans will do what is in their best interest and
        comfort is one of them. My Dog will sleep on the couch rather than the floor
        if I let him. And it is important enough to him that he try's every so often
        knowing he should not. (He jumps off if he hears me coming down the stairs).





        The pursuit of comfort in a hostile
        environment has driven men to scientific endeavor. The scientific
        endeavor is figuring out how to ignite the fire, not the pursuit of
        the comfort of knowing how to ignite the fire. Though a man may be
        concerned with comfort before and after the fact, while seized in the
        process of understanding how to do something with the fabric of the
        universe he has come of, he has reached a higher more timeless area of
        species expression where comfort has no meaning - as is indeed the
        real though unaccepted "truth" for any member of the human race
        today. Comfort provides no solace to the whole man. It means something
        to him only in those he comforts.

        [Robert Keyes] This is almost profound(I am most usually wrong-tough
        puzzle), I have never looked at this way...




        For the whole man has accepted
        species-wide responsibility precisely because of rigorously
        scientifically ascertaining his personal limitations. Pragmatism lays
        this responsibility easily aside by seizing its primary dynamism from
        sociological devlopment. We may hardly characterize it as a rugged
        individualism of a whole man, when it seeks solution of a seething
        mass of cultural implementation, and considers the best solution the
        most comfortable.


        [Robert Keyes] What you write is for sure plausible and makes sense.




        In this it historically excuses religion and
        literary fantasy to the point of fascism if indeed comfort appears to
        be at all on the horizon.


        [Robert Keyes] Possible for sure, why rock the boat. I got mine mentality.



        We may compose an endless thesaurus of
        terminology for philosophical views, yet there are only two - the
        pragmatic or the scientific. Every human being switches back and forth
        between them constantly, but overwhelmingly in general the human race
        goes about its daily life with a pragmatic view with only the
        occasional foray into scientific discovery. The work of hard science
        has simply grown quite difficult.



        [Robert Keyes] Science is a business and will Thrive, nothing can stop it.
        Because the details are unknowable should be expected. We have more
        questions about things now scientifically than Newton did !!! But have is
        the big Picture Today, something Newton could not.




        Existential angst; the yearning for
        rest, the yearning for comfort, the yearning for safety, is all the
        direct result of an apelike pragmatic view unable to accept the
        limitations of being something newer - a man.



        [Robert Keyes] And that is for only the 1 percent smart like you. The rest
        is is pure raw Ape- Emotion.



        It is the frustrated
        monkey unable to suffer the grand sorrow of manhood.


        [Robert Keyes] True, but do you blame them... Whatever makes them happy they
        will do. We are animals. (More animal than Human, I think I can prove that,
        I know an animal is a human)
        Bob...




        Trinidad Cruz






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