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RE: [existlist] back to basics

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  • Robert Keyes
    Bob... a few comments... ... From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of louise Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:05 PM To:
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 1, 2005
      Bob... a few comments...

      -----Original Message-----
      From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of louise
      Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:05 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [existlist] back to basics

      TO ROBERT BROWNING

      There is delight in singing, though none hear
      Beside the singer; and there is delight
      In praising, though the praiser sit alone
      And see the prais'd far off him, far above.
      Shakspere is not our* poet, but the world's,
      Therefore on him no speech; and short for thee,
      Browning! Since Chaucer was alive and hale,
      No man hath walk'd along our roads with step
      So active, so inquiring eye, or tongue
      So varied in discourse. But warmer climes
      Give brighter plumage, stronger wing; the breeze
      Of Alpine heights thou playest with, borne on
      Beyond Sorrento and Amalfi, where
      The Siren waits thee, singing song for song.


      Walter Savage Landor. Originally published in *The Morning
      Chronicle*, November 22, 1845.
      >From Vol. 15, Complete Works, ed. S. Wheeler, Methuen 1969.

      ------------------------------

      Why have I quoted this?? Because I am continually struggling,
      whenever I come to existlist, to find an adequate definition for
      what existentialism might be,

      [Robert Keyes] Are you saying existentialism exists and you are trying to
      discover it, OR, you think you should be the one defining a concept namely
      existentialism. I hope is the latter or things could get complicated.. (some
      humor-only the last sentence of course).



      some kind of precondition, for me, of
      deciding whether it has a future.

      [Robert Keyes] It will have a future all right but not how you defined it,
      that is almost certain.




      In saying that, I speak of one
      individual perspective on life, the world, and everything. Does
      existentialism have a future for me?


      [Robert Keyes] I honestly don't see why you care, what do you care if your
      thinking fits some undefineable concept.




      How would I distinguish its
      definition from that of philosophy?


      [Robert Keyes] You cant...


      The human beings who are
      supremely appreciators of being human - such as Robert Browning, and
      his eulogiser here, Walter Landor, though they be such very
      different men - help at least to remind me of the springs of my
      first awakening, to the curiosity that is perceiving life on earth.
      Being curious. The babe and the child. The impassioned adult.
      Curiosity can get buried, under fear, worry, suffering, overwork.
      It can get perverted from its true course

      [Robert Keyes] True course ? Organization will increase until catastrophophy
      ( a commit eventually get us unless we are off the planet) any number of
      other possibilities of course.





      (now I cannot justify my
      adjective with logic, it flows from long reasonings building on an
      evolving faith).


      [Robert Keyes] I hate when people use words like faith. I never know what
      they mean.




      Alice has never left Wonderland. However we might
      not notice, or forget. What has been, is.

      Robert Keyes] Logically "what has been, is" makes no sense, you are in your
      own world, don't expect others to follow, trust me you are alone.




      That's eternity,


      [Robert Keyes] Define it anyway you like, it is only a word...Concepts like
      this cannot be distilled to a single word , get real...



      I
      think, in the cosmos envisioned by Nietzsche. Being endures, if one
      loves what has been. Isn't it just beyond words? They become
      recognisable, coherent, welcome ... at the moment of meeting
      experience. Without that confluence, we breathe air, like the
      singer sang, "flap our hands in body telegrams" (I think, anyway,
      must be the 'Golden Promises' lyric by Peter Hammill). Like furry,
      leathery, aquatic or feathered creatures, communicating whatever
      possible by whatever means. This is the internet, there is no
      violence here, in a sense. We are remote. It is eternally true,
      here, that the pen is mightier than the sword. Does it matter??
      I guess existentialism says yes it does. What else could matter,
      if one wants life? More and more life.


      [Robert Keyes] Does it Matter, Hmmm..
      First what does that mean...
      Possibilites.
      a. If it was not like you state, humans would be less happy and it matters
      because we like to be more happy if given a choice.
      b. It does not matter if we are miserable, because we are worthless
      creatures.(who might like it even?)
      Any self Respecting APE would Pick A... (most any higher primate would pick
      it- I can make a dog happy or sad, which would he pick, they do run away)
      Bob....



      Louise





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      Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
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    • louise
      [Louise] ... I am continually struggling, whenever I come to existlist, to find an adequate definition for what existentialism might be, [Robert Keyes] Are you
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 2, 2005
        [Louise]
        ... I am continually struggling, whenever I come to existlist, to
        find an adequate definition for what existentialism might be,

        [Robert Keyes]
        Are you saying existentialism exists and you are trying to
        discover it, OR, you think you should be the one defining a concept
        namely existentialism. I hope is the latter or things could get
        complicated.. (some humor-only the last sentence of course).

        Louise
        Neither. Existentialism is a concept. Individuals exist, not
        concepts. I am a subjectivist. This means that clarifying its
        definition for myself is part of a process that is physical. If you
        wanted to put me in a lab twice a week for the purposes of taking
        objectively verifiable readings - CAT-scans etc.? - you might see
        some relationship between thinking about concepts and the effect on
        brain chemistry, feelings, behaviour, and so on. What CSW has
        described, as I recall, is a state of affairs in some academic
        institutions where analysis of word-structures entirely independent
        of lived life is thought to be the only philosophy worthy of the
        name. Whereas I would say that is not philosophy of any kind at
        all, more like a branch of scientific methodology (post-Newton)
        quite plausibly economically and socially noxious.


        [Louise] How would I distinguish its definition [that of
        existentialism] from that of philosophy?

        [Robert Keyes] You cant...

        Louise
        Why not??

        Plenty to be going on with here. If I tackle other questions, I'll
        put them in a different e-mail.
      • Robert Keyes
        Thought I sent this 2 days ago... stuck in my out box, humor error...(I would hate to judge it now, I might think differently, so I am sending it... Comments
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 3, 2005
          Thought I sent this 2 days ago... stuck in my out box, humor error...(I
          would hate to judge it now, I might think differently, so I am sending it...

          Comments below

          -----Original Message-----
          From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of louise
          Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:45 AM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [existlist] Re: back to basics

          [Louise]
          ... I am continually struggling, whenever I come to existlist, to
          find an adequate definition for what existentialism might be,

          [Robert Keyes]
          Are you saying existentialism exists and you are trying to
          discover it, OR, you think you should be the one defining a concept
          namely existentialism. I hope is the latter or things could get
          complicated.. (some humor-only the last sentence of course).

          Louise
          Neither. Existentialism is a concept.

          [Robert Keyes] Of course it is a concept......



          Individuals exist, not
          concepts.

          [Robert Keyes] They both exist. Individuals come fist, then concepts. Thus
          The physics of the situation. It cannot be that thoughts make
          matter(discounting mysticism).



          I am a subjectivist. This means that clarifying its
          definition for myself is part of a process that is physical.


          If you
          wanted to put me in a lab twice a week for the purposes of taking
          objectively verifiable readings - CAT-scans etc.? - you might see
          some relationship between thinking about concepts and the effect on
          brain chemistry, feelings, behaviour, and so on.

          [Robert Keyes] Don't get emotional because you realize ugly reality.
          We are like computers. We have hardware and programming ability. (software).
          Software cannot exist without hardware.




          What CSW has
          described, as I recall, is a state of affairs in some academic
          institutions where analysis of word-structures entirely independent
          of lived life is thought to be the only philosophy worthy of the
          name.

          [Robert Keyes] First of all this is logically impossible. Humans define
          Words, and everything else, we cannot be eliminated from the equation .



          Whereas I would say that is not philosophy of any kind at
          all, more like a branch of scientific methodology (post-Newton)
          quite plausibly economically and socially noxious.

          [Robert Keyes] I am not for killing the weak either. But don't act like
          that is the only option.


          [Louise] How would I distinguish its definition [that of
          existentialism] from that of philosophy?

          [Robert Keyes] You cant...

          Louise
          Why not??

          [Robert Keyes] Because you have not defined the question stick enough to
          mean anything.






          Plenty to be going on with here. If I tackle other questions, I'll
          put them in a different e-mail.

          Bob....by the way Louise , I was playing with my new ipaq and saw your hot
          photo. You look 25. I imagined you as like 60. How old are you...






          Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

          Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
          Yahoo! Groups Links
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