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RE: [existlist] libertariansim

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  • Jeffrey Tate
    Yes, it is a good read. You need significant familiarity with psychoanalytic theory to read it easily. Jeff ... From: existlist@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 1, 2005
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      Yes, it is a good read. You need significant familiarity with
      psychoanalytic theory to read it easily.

      Jeff


      -----Original Message-----
      From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of eduard at home
      Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:12 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim


      That only takes you back some 1500 years. However, DeMause might make a
      good read, if I had the time.

      eduard
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jeffrey Tate
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:12 PM
      Subject: RE: [existlist] libertariansim


      As I recall, DeMause sees a major improvement in quality of empathy in
      parenting occuring at about 500 CE, again at about 1600 CE, again at
      about 1750 CE, then about 1850 CE and, most recently, about 1950 CE.

      Jeff


      -----Original Message-----
      From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of eduard at home
      Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:38 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim


      I think that you would need to shorten your time periods. The West
      did
      not exist 3000 years ago. In fact, I should think that you would need
      to shorten it to less than 100 years, considering that the welfare
      state
      has only recently developed.

      eduard
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jeffrey Tate
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:27 PM
      Subject: [existlist] libertariansim


      "Weren't the better cultures those where social institutions
      demonstrated compassion and good works towards the unfortunate?
      Those
      which encouraged art and science, ensured tolerance, public
      education, adequate employment, material needs for children, and
      safe
      places for the elderly also became the wealthiest and strongest."
      Simone

      I think that history is showing the truth of this
      statement--although
      no culture has ever lived up to this description in every way.

      Lloyd DeMause, in his "Foundations of Psychohistory," argues that
      societies advance (in every aspect, including scientifically) in
      proportion to their ability to raise children to become adults who
      are
      more mature mentally-emotionally. That is, who are able to use more
      advanced levels of cognition (a la Piaget), more advanced levels of
      morality (a la Kohlberg), and more empathic relations with others (a
      la
      Erickson and many other psychoanalytic theorists).

      He believes that in the West there has been a gradual advance in
      mental-emotional maturity over the past three thousand years or so
      (of
      course a sizable percentage remain "laggards" stuck in less mature
      development; but this gradually becomes labelled as pathological).
      His
      outlook is optimistic for future increases in maturity--if we don't
      destroy civilization with weapons first!

      Jeff


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    • Susan Schnelbach
      Major improvement in parenting empathy in 1950??? Isn t this the generation of spoiled brat baby-boomers? Not really anything to brag about...
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 2, 2005
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        Major improvement in parenting empathy in 1950??? Isn't this the
        generation of spoiled brat baby-boomers? Not really anything to brag
        about...


        On Aug 1, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Jeffrey Tate wrote:

        > As I recall, DeMause sees a major improvement in quality of empathy in
        > parenting occuring at about 500 CE, again at about 1600 CE, again at
        > about 1750 CE, then about 1850 CE and, most recently, about 1950 CE.
        >
        > Jeff
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of eduard at home
        > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:38 PM
        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim
        >
        >
        > I think that you would need to shorten your time periods. The West
        > did
        > not exist 3000 years ago. In fact, I should think that you would need
        > to shorten it to less than 100 years, considering that the welfare
        > state
        > has only recently developed.
        >
        > eduard
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Jeffrey Tate
        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:27 PM
        > Subject: [existlist] libertariansim
        >
        >
        > "Weren't the better cultures those where social institutions
        > demonstrated compassion and good works towards the unfortunate?
        > Those
        > which encouraged art and science, ensured tolerance, public
        > education, adequate employment, material needs for children, and
        > safe
        > places for the elderly also became the wealthiest and strongest."
        > Simone
        >
        > I think that history is showing the truth of this statement--
        > although
        > no culture has ever lived up to this description in every way.
        >
        > Lloyd DeMause, in his "Foundations of Psychohistory," argues that
        > societies advance (in every aspect, including scientifically) in
        > proportion to their ability to raise children to become adults
        > who are
        > more mature mentally-emotionally. That is, who are able to use more
        > advanced levels of cognition (a la Piaget), more advanced levels of
        > morality (a la Kohlberg), and more empathic relations with others (a
        > la
        > Erickson and many other psychoanalytic theorists).
        >
        > He believes that in the West there has been a gradual advance in
        > mental-emotional maturity over the past three thousand years or
        > so (of
        > course a sizable percentage remain "laggards" stuck in less mature
        > development; but this gradually becomes labelled as
        > pathological). His
        > outlook is optimistic for future increases in maturity--if we don't
        > destroy civilization with weapons first!
        >
        > Jeff
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
        > nothing!
        >
        > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS Existentialism philosophy Philosophy book
        > Existentialism
        > Merleau-ponty Philosophy
        >
        >
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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        >
        > a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.
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        > Service.
        >
        >
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > --
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        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
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        >
        > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
        >
        >
        >
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      • Jeffrey Tate
        As I recall, DeMause feels that about 1950 some parents began trying to respond to their child s developmental needs without a pre-planned expectation of the
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 3, 2005
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          As I recall, DeMause feels that about 1950 some parents began trying to
          respond to their child's developmental needs without a pre-planned
          expectation of the role in society that the child would be training
          into. In other words, to simply nurture the child's development,
          allowing the child to go in whatever direction came "naturally."

          He sees this as an advance over the previous phase of pretty good
          empathic nurturing of the child, but with a heavy emphasis on
          expectations of what role the child would adopt.

          Interestingly, generation X (and probably Y and Z) are known for
          refusing to submit to the roles their parents did. For example,
          employers complain that workers under 40 years old won't put in the long
          hours, or move as often as the older generation did. They insist on more
          time for family and recreation (this is often discussed in articles
          about younger physicians, for example).

          Jeff


          -----Original Message-----
          From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Susan Schnelbach
          Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:56 PM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim


          Major improvement in parenting empathy in 1950??? Isn't this the
          generation of spoiled brat baby-boomers? Not really anything to brag
          about...


          On Aug 1, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Jeffrey Tate wrote:

          > As I recall, DeMause sees a major improvement in quality of empathy in
          > parenting occuring at about 500 CE, again at about 1600 CE, again at
          > about 1750 CE, then about 1850 CE and, most recently, about 1950 CE.
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of eduard at home
          > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:38 PM
          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim
          >
          >
          > I think that you would need to shorten your time periods. The West
          > did
          > not exist 3000 years ago. In fact, I should think that you would need
          > to shorten it to less than 100 years, considering that the welfare
          > state
          > has only recently developed.
          >
          > eduard
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Jeffrey Tate
          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:27 PM
          > Subject: [existlist] libertariansim
          >
          >
          > "Weren't the better cultures those where social institutions
          > demonstrated compassion and good works towards the unfortunate?
          > Those
          > which encouraged art and science, ensured tolerance, public
          > education, adequate employment, material needs for children, and
          > safe
          > places for the elderly also became the wealthiest and strongest."
          > Simone
          >
          > I think that history is showing the truth of this statement--
          > although
          > no culture has ever lived up to this description in every way.
          >
          > Lloyd DeMause, in his "Foundations of Psychohistory," argues that
          > societies advance (in every aspect, including scientifically) in
          > proportion to their ability to raise children to become adults
          > who are
          > more mature mentally-emotionally. That is, who are able to use more
          > advanced levels of cognition (a la Piaget), more advanced levels of
          > morality (a la Kohlberg), and more empathic relations with others (a
          > la
          > Erickson and many other psychoanalytic theorists).
          >
          > He believes that in the West there has been a gradual advance in
          > mental-emotional maturity over the past three thousand years or
          > so (of
          > course a sizable percentage remain "laggards" stuck in less mature
          > development; but this gradually becomes labelled as
          > pathological). His
          > outlook is optimistic for future increases in maturity--if we don't
          > destroy civilization with weapons first!
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          > nothing!
          >
          > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS Existentialism philosophy Philosophy book
          > Existentialism
          > Merleau-ponty Philosophy
          >
          >
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

          > --
          > ------
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          >
          > a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.
          >
          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          >
          >
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

          > --
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          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          > nothing!
          >
          > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
          >
          >
          >
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