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RE: [existlist] libertariansim

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  • Jeffrey Tate
    As I recall, DeMause sees a major improvement in quality of empathy in parenting occuring at about 500 CE, again at about 1600 CE, again at about 1750 CE, then
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 1, 2005
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      As I recall, DeMause sees a major improvement in quality of empathy in
      parenting occuring at about 500 CE, again at about 1600 CE, again at
      about 1750 CE, then about 1850 CE and, most recently, about 1950 CE.

      Jeff


      -----Original Message-----
      From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of eduard at home
      Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:38 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim


      I think that you would need to shorten your time periods. The West did
      not exist 3000 years ago. In fact, I should think that you would need
      to shorten it to less than 100 years, considering that the welfare state
      has only recently developed.

      eduard
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jeffrey Tate
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:27 PM
      Subject: [existlist] libertariansim


      "Weren't the better cultures those where social institutions
      demonstrated compassion and good works towards the unfortunate? Those
      which encouraged art and science, ensured tolerance, public
      education, adequate employment, material needs for children, and safe
      places for the elderly also became the wealthiest and strongest."
      Simone

      I think that history is showing the truth of this statement--although
      no culture has ever lived up to this description in every way.

      Lloyd DeMause, in his "Foundations of Psychohistory," argues that
      societies advance (in every aspect, including scientifically) in
      proportion to their ability to raise children to become adults who are
      more mature mentally-emotionally. That is, who are able to use more
      advanced levels of cognition (a la Piaget), more advanced levels of
      morality (a la Kohlberg), and more empathic relations with others (a
      la
      Erickson and many other psychoanalytic theorists).

      He believes that in the West there has been a gradual advance in
      mental-emotional maturity over the past three thousand years or so (of
      course a sizable percentage remain "laggards" stuck in less mature
      development; but this gradually becomes labelled as pathological). His
      outlook is optimistic for future increases in maturity--if we don't
      destroy civilization with weapons first!

      Jeff


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
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    • eduard at home
      That only takes you back some 1500 years. However, DeMause might make a good read, if I had the time. eduard ... From: Jeffrey Tate To:
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 1, 2005
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        That only takes you back some 1500 years. However, DeMause might make a good read, if I had the time.

        eduard
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jeffrey Tate
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:12 PM
        Subject: RE: [existlist] libertariansim


        As I recall, DeMause sees a major improvement in quality of empathy in
        parenting occuring at about 500 CE, again at about 1600 CE, again at
        about 1750 CE, then about 1850 CE and, most recently, about 1950 CE.

        Jeff


        -----Original Message-----
        From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of eduard at home
        Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:38 PM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim


        I think that you would need to shorten your time periods. The West did
        not exist 3000 years ago. In fact, I should think that you would need
        to shorten it to less than 100 years, considering that the welfare state
        has only recently developed.

        eduard
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jeffrey Tate
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:27 PM
        Subject: [existlist] libertariansim


        "Weren't the better cultures those where social institutions
        demonstrated compassion and good works towards the unfortunate? Those
        which encouraged art and science, ensured tolerance, public
        education, adequate employment, material needs for children, and safe
        places for the elderly also became the wealthiest and strongest."
        Simone

        I think that history is showing the truth of this statement--although
        no culture has ever lived up to this description in every way.

        Lloyd DeMause, in his "Foundations of Psychohistory," argues that
        societies advance (in every aspect, including scientifically) in
        proportion to their ability to raise children to become adults who are
        more mature mentally-emotionally. That is, who are able to use more
        advanced levels of cognition (a la Piaget), more advanced levels of
        morality (a la Kohlberg), and more empathic relations with others (a
        la
        Erickson and many other psychoanalytic theorists).

        He believes that in the West there has been a gradual advance in
        mental-emotional maturity over the past three thousand years or so (of
        course a sizable percentage remain "laggards" stuck in less mature
        development; but this gradually becomes labelled as pathological). His
        outlook is optimistic for future increases in maturity--if we don't
        destroy civilization with weapons first!

        Jeff


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
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        Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



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        Existentialism
        Merleau-ponty Philosophy


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      • Jeffrey Tate
        Yes, it is a good read. You need significant familiarity with psychoanalytic theory to read it easily. Jeff ... From: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 1, 2005
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          Yes, it is a good read. You need significant familiarity with
          psychoanalytic theory to read it easily.

          Jeff


          -----Original Message-----
          From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of eduard at home
          Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:12 PM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim


          That only takes you back some 1500 years. However, DeMause might make a
          good read, if I had the time.

          eduard
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jeffrey Tate
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:12 PM
          Subject: RE: [existlist] libertariansim


          As I recall, DeMause sees a major improvement in quality of empathy in
          parenting occuring at about 500 CE, again at about 1600 CE, again at
          about 1750 CE, then about 1850 CE and, most recently, about 1950 CE.

          Jeff


          -----Original Message-----
          From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of eduard at home
          Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:38 PM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim


          I think that you would need to shorten your time periods. The West
          did
          not exist 3000 years ago. In fact, I should think that you would need
          to shorten it to less than 100 years, considering that the welfare
          state
          has only recently developed.

          eduard
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jeffrey Tate
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:27 PM
          Subject: [existlist] libertariansim


          "Weren't the better cultures those where social institutions
          demonstrated compassion and good works towards the unfortunate?
          Those
          which encouraged art and science, ensured tolerance, public
          education, adequate employment, material needs for children, and
          safe
          places for the elderly also became the wealthiest and strongest."
          Simone

          I think that history is showing the truth of this
          statement--although
          no culture has ever lived up to this description in every way.

          Lloyd DeMause, in his "Foundations of Psychohistory," argues that
          societies advance (in every aspect, including scientifically) in
          proportion to their ability to raise children to become adults who
          are
          more mature mentally-emotionally. That is, who are able to use more
          advanced levels of cognition (a la Piaget), more advanced levels of
          morality (a la Kohlberg), and more empathic relations with others (a
          la
          Erickson and many other psychoanalytic theorists).

          He believes that in the West there has been a gradual advance in
          mental-emotional maturity over the past three thousand years or so
          (of
          course a sizable percentage remain "laggards" stuck in less mature
          development; but this gradually becomes labelled as pathological).
          His
          outlook is optimistic for future increases in maturity--if we don't
          destroy civilization with weapons first!

          Jeff


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          nothing!

          Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



          SPONSORED LINKS Existentialism philosophy Philosophy book
          Existentialism
          Merleau-ponty Philosophy



          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          Service.



          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          nothing!

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          nothing!

          Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



          SPONSORED LINKS Existentialism philosophy Philosophy book
          Existentialism
          Merleau-ponty Philosophy


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          nothing!

          Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



          _____

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          * Visit your group "existlist
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Susan Schnelbach
          Major improvement in parenting empathy in 1950??? Isn t this the generation of spoiled brat baby-boomers? Not really anything to brag about...
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 2, 2005
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            Major improvement in parenting empathy in 1950??? Isn't this the
            generation of spoiled brat baby-boomers? Not really anything to brag
            about...


            On Aug 1, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Jeffrey Tate wrote:

            > As I recall, DeMause sees a major improvement in quality of empathy in
            > parenting occuring at about 500 CE, again at about 1600 CE, again at
            > about 1750 CE, then about 1850 CE and, most recently, about 1950 CE.
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of eduard at home
            > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:38 PM
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim
            >
            >
            > I think that you would need to shorten your time periods. The West
            > did
            > not exist 3000 years ago. In fact, I should think that you would need
            > to shorten it to less than 100 years, considering that the welfare
            > state
            > has only recently developed.
            >
            > eduard
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Jeffrey Tate
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:27 PM
            > Subject: [existlist] libertariansim
            >
            >
            > "Weren't the better cultures those where social institutions
            > demonstrated compassion and good works towards the unfortunate?
            > Those
            > which encouraged art and science, ensured tolerance, public
            > education, adequate employment, material needs for children, and
            > safe
            > places for the elderly also became the wealthiest and strongest."
            > Simone
            >
            > I think that history is showing the truth of this statement--
            > although
            > no culture has ever lived up to this description in every way.
            >
            > Lloyd DeMause, in his "Foundations of Psychohistory," argues that
            > societies advance (in every aspect, including scientifically) in
            > proportion to their ability to raise children to become adults
            > who are
            > more mature mentally-emotionally. That is, who are able to use more
            > advanced levels of cognition (a la Piaget), more advanced levels of
            > morality (a la Kohlberg), and more empathic relations with others (a
            > la
            > Erickson and many other psychoanalytic theorists).
            >
            > He believes that in the West there has been a gradual advance in
            > mental-emotional maturity over the past three thousand years or
            > so (of
            > course a sizable percentage remain "laggards" stuck in less mature
            > development; but this gradually becomes labelled as
            > pathological). His
            > outlook is optimistic for future increases in maturity--if we don't
            > destroy civilization with weapons first!
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
            > nothing!
            >
            > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS Existentialism philosophy Philosophy book
            > Existentialism
            > Merleau-ponty Philosophy
            >
            >
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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            >
            > a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.
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            >
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            > Service.
            >
            >
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
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            >
            > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
            >
            >
            >
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          • Jeffrey Tate
            As I recall, DeMause feels that about 1950 some parents began trying to respond to their child s developmental needs without a pre-planned expectation of the
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 3, 2005
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              As I recall, DeMause feels that about 1950 some parents began trying to
              respond to their child's developmental needs without a pre-planned
              expectation of the role in society that the child would be training
              into. In other words, to simply nurture the child's development,
              allowing the child to go in whatever direction came "naturally."

              He sees this as an advance over the previous phase of pretty good
              empathic nurturing of the child, but with a heavy emphasis on
              expectations of what role the child would adopt.

              Interestingly, generation X (and probably Y and Z) are known for
              refusing to submit to the roles their parents did. For example,
              employers complain that workers under 40 years old won't put in the long
              hours, or move as often as the older generation did. They insist on more
              time for family and recreation (this is often discussed in articles
              about younger physicians, for example).

              Jeff


              -----Original Message-----
              From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Susan Schnelbach
              Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:56 PM
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim


              Major improvement in parenting empathy in 1950??? Isn't this the
              generation of spoiled brat baby-boomers? Not really anything to brag
              about...


              On Aug 1, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Jeffrey Tate wrote:

              > As I recall, DeMause sees a major improvement in quality of empathy in
              > parenting occuring at about 500 CE, again at about 1600 CE, again at
              > about 1750 CE, then about 1850 CE and, most recently, about 1950 CE.
              >
              > Jeff
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of eduard at home
              > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:38 PM
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [existlist] libertariansim
              >
              >
              > I think that you would need to shorten your time periods. The West
              > did
              > not exist 3000 years ago. In fact, I should think that you would need
              > to shorten it to less than 100 years, considering that the welfare
              > state
              > has only recently developed.
              >
              > eduard
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Jeffrey Tate
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:27 PM
              > Subject: [existlist] libertariansim
              >
              >
              > "Weren't the better cultures those where social institutions
              > demonstrated compassion and good works towards the unfortunate?
              > Those
              > which encouraged art and science, ensured tolerance, public
              > education, adequate employment, material needs for children, and
              > safe
              > places for the elderly also became the wealthiest and strongest."
              > Simone
              >
              > I think that history is showing the truth of this statement--
              > although
              > no culture has ever lived up to this description in every way.
              >
              > Lloyd DeMause, in his "Foundations of Psychohistory," argues that
              > societies advance (in every aspect, including scientifically) in
              > proportion to their ability to raise children to become adults
              > who are
              > more mature mentally-emotionally. That is, who are able to use more
              > advanced levels of cognition (a la Piaget), more advanced levels of
              > morality (a la Kohlberg), and more empathic relations with others (a
              > la
              > Erickson and many other psychoanalytic theorists).
              >
              > He believes that in the West there has been a gradual advance in
              > mental-emotional maturity over the past three thousand years or
              > so (of
              > course a sizable percentage remain "laggards" stuck in less mature
              > development; but this gradually becomes labelled as
              > pathological). His
              > outlook is optimistic for future increases in maturity--if we don't
              > destroy civilization with weapons first!
              >
              > Jeff
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
              > nothing!
              >
              > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS Existentialism philosophy Philosophy book
              > Existentialism
              > Merleau-ponty Philosophy
              >
              >
              > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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              > ------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              >
              >
              > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
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              > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
              >
              >
              >
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              sophy&c=5&s=107&.sig=Bz45hk4_5f59JXvGJVeFUQ> book Existentialism
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              phy&c=5&s=107&.sig=v2eniok72-pSuMpNLpaegw> Philosophy
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              ophy&w2=Philosophy+book&w3=Existentialism&w4=Merleau-ponty&w5=Philosophy
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