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Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns

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  • eduard at home
    Are comedy and comedians undervalued?? I know that they rarely get Oscars, but they seem to be well appreciated. As far as TV goes, the old comedies seem to
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 30, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Are comedy and comedians undervalued?? I know that they rarely get Oscars, but they seem to be well appreciated.

      As far as TV goes, the old comedies seem to last forever. Andy Griffith, I Love Lucy, Dukes of Hazard, etc..

      I can only speak for moi-meme, but comedy is primarily escapism. I'm really not keen on movies that draw moi into some kind of emotional drama. I get enough of that in everyday life.

      Yes, many comedians have a sad side. Perhaps that is why they are comedians, since comedy is a release for some and for others it is a means of acceptance within a group. The class clown and all that sort of thing.

      As far as comedians and politics is concerned, the comedian is able to say things because he/she puts them in the context of funniness [is that a word?], but underneath there is a certain truth. Will Rogers was famous at that. Johnny Carson carried on the tradition and now its Jay Leno and David Letterman.

      Was my gramour Ok??

      eduard
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: dave minogue
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 6:37 PM
      Subject: [existlist] Send in the clowns


      I'm not to sure wether this topic lies within the realm of
      existentialism, to be honest i dont know where this topic could lie,
      but what i'm concerned with hear is the notion of comedy. Why is
      comedy under valued in society? Is it, as i believe under valued?
      what constitutes as comedy? How did it originate? why is it always
      accompanied with a smile even in the saddest of circumstances? what
      makes it so special? When we look back through history many of the
      key figures had a keen wit, eg leonardo da vinci, charles chaplin,
      shakespear, einstein, stephen hawkins to name but a few.

      When you consider the amount of repeats on television-gods knows
      theres more than enough, but what percentage of those are comedies?
      we all love to laugh, but why? why is it so good? why is there no
      lectures on how to be funny in colleges? why is it that the funniest
      are also the saddest? its so important to our being yet it is
      something that is marginalised well beyond its merit. why is it that
      comedians make more sense than politicians? where do babies come
      from? there has to be something more to it beyond mere escapism.
      where exactly does comedy belong? the best as far as i'm concerned
      belongs in philosophy, in schools,in politics. i have my own theories
      on the subject, and unfortunatly i'm not nearly half as well read as
      many of the group appear to be but at the moment my theories are
      quite chaotic and in need of some semblance, but i would like to hear
      the views of some of the more enlightened bunch of people.

      please respond with 500 words or less, marks will be deducted for not
      good gramour

      --
      _______________________________________________
      For the largest FREE email in Ireland (25MB) and 20MB of online file storage space - Visit http://www.campus.ie


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

      Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • dave minogue
      from the superficial point of view perhaps comedy is there primarily as escapism but does its success and demand then not beg the question to why we need so
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 31, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        from the superficial point of view perhaps comedy is there primarily as
        escapism but does its success and demand then not beg the question to why
        we need so much escapism? Are the best of times not typically associated
        with laughter? even if comedy is purely just a release for some, how did
        the clowns chose to construct the pain into laughter while others
        transform their pain to psychotic episodes, violence art etc? what does
        something have to fulfill before it is qualified as funny? can there be a
        set criteria for comedy and if so how do some find something so hilarious
        while others get so wildly tempered when in truth they must know its
        in essense nothing but a jest? it is said that comedy is by design to
        take someones pain and exploit it with the best of intentions, but
        doesnt that sound so sinister? if comedy for some is a way of gaining
        acceptance then why is it that "class clowns" make a conscious or
        subconscious decision that making a farsical of their tragedy is the only
        way to gain acceptance? what is it about the rest of us that would demand
        such a trait in people? if comedy inherently contains a lot of anger then
        how is it that jokes are funny while violence isnt? As a whole i think
        comedians are undervalued, very few can make a living off it, but that is
        beside the point, value isnt synonymous with financial gain, why are they
        not valued as sources of knowledge and insight? most actors i've ever met
        have said comedy is the hardest genre to act. its clearly not an easy
        thing to produce either and a considerable amount of intelligence must be
        present within the comedian before deliverance of the joke, ie a
        prior knowledge: of how something sounds in order to make it funny, the
        syntax of the joke, a conception of the reaction and indeed the
        intelligence of the recipiant in order for them to get the joke, and then
        theres the actual knowledge conatined within the joke and the
        observations in which the linkage between the topic and conclusion(punch
        line) are found. comedy is clearly not an easy trick to master, just look
        at rosie o donnel. can it be thought? is it a learned expierence? how in
        did we develop it?

        as far as the last paragraph is concerned i dont think it is clearly as
        simple as that, for one often comedians do not need to put truth into the
        context of funniness, sometimes the truth speaks for itself and as a
        result is often hilarious, for instance chris rock said that guns dont
        kill people bullets do-there is so much subtext to that little joke all
        of which is insightful and factual.

        ps does anyone else find south park to be one of the most morally correct
        shows on television?

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "eduard at home"
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns
        Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:51:32 -0400

        Are comedy and comedians undervalued?? I know that they rarely get
        Oscars, but they seem to be well appreciated.

        As far as TV goes, the old comedies seem to last forever. Andy
        Griffith, I Love Lucy, Dukes of Hazard, etc..

        I can only speak for moi-meme, but comedy is primarily escapism. I'm
        really not keen on movies that draw moi into some kind of emotional
        drama. I get enough of that in everyday life.

        Yes, many comedians have a sad side. Perhaps that is why they are
        comedians, since comedy is a release for some and for others it is a
        means of acceptance within a group. The class clown and all that
        sort of thing.

        As far as comedians and politics is concerned, the comedian is able
        to say things because he/she puts them in the context of funniness
        [is that a word?], but underneath there is a certain truth. Will
        Rogers was famous at that. Johnny Carson carried on the tradition
        and now its Jay Leno and David Letterman.

        Was my gramour Ok??

        eduard
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: dave minogue
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 6:37 PM
        Subject: [existlist] Send in the clowns


        I'm not to sure wether this topic lies within the realm of
        existentialism, to be honest i dont know where this topic could lie,
        but what i'm concerned with hear is the notion of comedy. Why is
        comedy under valued in society? Is it, as i believe under valued?
        what constitutes as comedy? How did it originate? why is it always
        accompanied with a smile even in the saddest of circumstances? what
        makes it so special? When we look back through history many of the
        key figures had a keen wit, eg leonardo da vinci, charles chaplin,
        shakespear, einstein, stephen hawkins to name but a few.

        When you consider the amount of repeats on television-gods knows
        theres more than enough, but what percentage of those are comedies?
        we all love to laugh, but why? why is it so good? why is there no
        lectures on how to be funny in colleges? why is it that the funniest
        are also the saddest? its so important to our being yet it is
        something that is marginalised well beyond its merit. why is it that
        comedians make more sense than politicians? where do babies come
        from? there has to be something more to it beyond mere escapism.
        where exactly does comedy belong? the best as far as i'm concerned
        belongs in philosophy, in schools,in politics. i have my own theories
        on the subject, and unfortunatly i'm not nearly half as well read as
        many of the group appear to be but at the moment my theories are
        quite chaotic and in need of some semblance, but i would like to hear
        the views of some of the more enlightened bunch of people.

        please respond with 500 words or less, marks will be deducted for not
        good gramour

        --
        _______________________________________________
        For the largest FREE email in Ireland (25MB) and 20MB of online file
        storage space - Visit http://www.campus.ie


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
        nothing!

        Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

        a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.

        b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.


        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
        nothing!

        Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



        SPONSORED LINKS
        Existentialism philosophy Philosophy book Existentialism
        Merleau-ponty Philosophy

        --------------------------------------------------------------------

        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

        * Visit your group "existlist" on the web.

        * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.


        --------------------------------------------------------------------

        --
        _______________________________________________
        For the largest FREE email in Ireland (25MB) and 20MB of online file storage space - Visit http://www.campus.ie


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • eduard at home
        Too many questions. All you need is one. The rest can wait for later. There s plenty of time. Decades from now some of us will still be here. Why do we
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 31, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Too many questions. All you need is one. The rest can wait for later. There's plenty of time. Decades from now some of us will still be here.

          Why do we need so much escapism??

          It's not us, per se, but our brains. Our brains are happiest when it is distracted from the chaos and can focus upon something. That's what it does for a living. Comedy gives us distraction, as much as collecting stamps and such. But the difference is that comedy and thus laughter involves the whole body. Which in a sense is better than collecting stamps.

          eduard
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: dave minogue
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 12:10 PM
          Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns


          from the superficial point of view perhaps comedy is there primarily as
          escapism but does its success and demand then not beg the question to why
          we need so much escapism? Are the best of times not typically associated
          with laughter? even if comedy is purely just a release for some, how did
          the clowns chose to construct the pain into laughter while others
          transform their pain to psychotic episodes, violence art etc? what does
          something have to fulfill before it is qualified as funny? can there be a
          set criteria for comedy and if so how do some find something so hilarious
          while others get so wildly tempered when in truth they must know its
          in essense nothing but a jest? it is said that comedy is by design to
          take someones pain and exploit it with the best of intentions, but
          doesnt that sound so sinister? if comedy for some is a way of gaining
          acceptance then why is it that "class clowns" make a conscious or
          subconscious decision that making a farsical of their tragedy is the only
          way to gain acceptance? what is it about the rest of us that would demand
          such a trait in people? if comedy inherently contains a lot of anger then
          how is it that jokes are funny while violence isnt? As a whole i think
          comedians are undervalued, very few can make a living off it, but that is
          beside the point, value isnt synonymous with financial gain, why are they
          not valued as sources of knowledge and insight? most actors i've ever met
          have said comedy is the hardest genre to act. its clearly not an easy
          thing to produce either and a considerable amount of intelligence must be
          present within the comedian before deliverance of the joke, ie a
          prior knowledge: of how something sounds in order to make it funny, the
          syntax of the joke, a conception of the reaction and indeed the
          intelligence of the recipiant in order for them to get the joke, and then
          theres the actual knowledge conatined within the joke and the
          observations in which the linkage between the topic and conclusion(punch
          line) are found. comedy is clearly not an easy trick to master, just look
          at rosie o donnel. can it be thought? is it a learned expierence? how in
          did we develop it?

          as far as the last paragraph is concerned i dont think it is clearly as
          simple as that, for one often comedians do not need to put truth into the
          context of funniness, sometimes the truth speaks for itself and as a
          result is often hilarious, for instance chris rock said that guns dont
          kill people bullets do-there is so much subtext to that little joke all
          of which is insightful and factual.

          ps does anyone else find south park to be one of the most morally correct
          shows on television?


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Aija Veldre Beldavs
          ... gotta add Mark Twain. to say nothing of lesser folk on the net coming up with new variants of the Evil Overlord, how many to screw in a lighbulb, you have
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 31, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, dave minogue wrote:

            > When we look back through history many of the key figures had a keen
            > wit, eg leonardo da vinci, charles chaplin, shakespear, einstein,
            > stephen hawkins to name but a few.

            gotta add Mark Twain.
            to say nothing of lesser folk on the net coming up with new variants of
            the Evil Overlord, how many to screw in a lighbulb, you have two cows...
            humor is all around, the absurd can be approached with humor.

            together with the headman, wise woman, chief, assembly of elders or gods,
            or any other authority figure or the better folk came the trickster,
            joker, and fool to balance, offset, and set limits to the normative,
            formal, authoritative, elite, or else, at least at certain designated
            times to vent tension that high levels of restriction and control create.

            obviously the clown had to be pretty clever to know what one could get
            away with. otoh it's easier to deconstruct by making fun of something,
            than to create, and a good part of humor is dependent on someone else
            constructing or being something.

            there are different functions for humor, thus different theories. for
            starters, laughing (not the same as humor) as simple physiological release
            of stress, relief when the situation isn't mirthfully funny, but full of
            tension. humor may be dangerous, ambiguous, absurd, out of place, a
            breaking of frame, just plain strange but not so alarming that the fight
            or flight response is triggered instead.

            much of archaic male humor of warrior societies was aggressive hostility
            directed at others for the purpose of psychological abuse - softening up
            and diminishing the kill as before combat, while bonding the in-group.

            humor and bonding at the expense of someone else...

            in my dissertation about Latvian women's archaic ritual song wars,
            however, i elaborated on the purpose being the opposite, through abuse
            ritually creating a co-operative bond between two discrete groups that
            could also be potentially hostile.

            the emergence of the ability to diminish threat by humor, the ability
            to laugh also at oneself, to manipulate it to a greater range of goals...

            > lectures on how to be funny in colleges? why is it that the funniest
            > are also the saddest?

            but you've seen the two Greek masks of comedy and tragedy in pairs,
            haven't you?

            > its so important to our being yet it is something that is marginalised
            > well beyond its merit.

            the ancient Greek prioritization of tragedy as high culture and comedy as
            that of the masses continues and persists.

            > why is it that comedians make more sense than politicians?

            it's easier to make fun of something than to offer a working
            alternative.:)

            but pairing comedy wih the serious is a reminder of human hubris, to place
            limits on taking oneself too seriously. or maybe it's to discourage
            humans from setting up their different humorless idols.:)

            aija
          • eduard at home
            Sometimes a well placed witticism can serve to emphasize a point. In the extreme, it may appear to be funny, but there also is a certain clarity and a note
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 1, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Sometimes a well placed witticism can serve to emphasize a point. In the extreme, it may appear to be funny, but there also is a certain clarity and a note which gets to heart of a question or situation. How many of whatever to screw in a light bulb can apply to all sorts of things.

              Being funny is a skill. Some are adapt at the bon mot, others at stand-up comedy. For myself, I find that I simply can't do the latter. When I'm in a group and the jokes are being said around the table, I usually pass on my turn, since I will only screw up whatever I might hope to bring forth.

              eduard
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Aija Veldre Beldavs
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:51 AM
              Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns



              On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, dave minogue wrote:

              > When we look back through history many of the key figures had a keen
              > wit, eg leonardo da vinci, charles chaplin, shakespear, einstein,
              > stephen hawkins to name but a few.

              gotta add Mark Twain.
              to say nothing of lesser folk on the net coming up with new variants of
              the Evil Overlord, how many to screw in a lighbulb, you have two cows...
              humor is all around, the absurd can be approached with humor.

              together with the headman, wise woman, chief, assembly of elders or gods,
              or any other authority figure or the better folk came the trickster,
              joker, and fool to balance, offset, and set limits to the normative,
              formal, authoritative, elite, or else, at least at certain designated
              times to vent tension that high levels of restriction and control create.

              obviously the clown had to be pretty clever to know what one could get
              away with. otoh it's easier to deconstruct by making fun of something,
              than to create, and a good part of humor is dependent on someone else
              constructing or being something.

              there are different functions for humor, thus different theories. for
              starters, laughing (not the same as humor) as simple physiological release
              of stress, relief when the situation isn't mirthfully funny, but full of
              tension. humor may be dangerous, ambiguous, absurd, out of place, a
              breaking of frame, just plain strange but not so alarming that the fight
              or flight response is triggered instead.

              much of archaic male humor of warrior societies was aggressive hostility
              directed at others for the purpose of psychological abuse - softening up
              and diminishing the kill as before combat, while bonding the in-group.

              humor and bonding at the expense of someone else...

              in my dissertation about Latvian women's archaic ritual song wars,
              however, i elaborated on the purpose being the opposite, through abuse
              ritually creating a co-operative bond between two discrete groups that
              could also be potentially hostile.

              the emergence of the ability to diminish threat by humor, the ability
              to laugh also at oneself, to manipulate it to a greater range of goals...

              > lectures on how to be funny in colleges? why is it that the funniest
              > are also the saddest?

              but you've seen the two Greek masks of comedy and tragedy in pairs,
              haven't you?

              > its so important to our being yet it is something that is marginalised
              > well beyond its merit.

              the ancient Greek prioritization of tragedy as high culture and comedy as
              that of the masses continues and persists.

              > why is it that comedians make more sense than politicians?

              it's easier to make fun of something than to offer a working
              alternative.:)

              but pairing comedy wih the serious is a reminder of human hubris, to place
              limits on taking oneself too seriously. or maybe it's to discourage
              humans from setting up their different humorless idols.:)

              aija


              Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

              Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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              a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.

              b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dave minogue
              Perhaps mark twain should be added to the list, i dont know much about him, but its an ongoing list for sure. i cant tell whether my point is being fully
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 1, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Perhaps mark twain should be added to the list, i dont know much about
                him, but its an ongoing list for sure. i cant tell whether my point is
                being fully understood or articulated properly or if its being dismissed,
                if it is being dismissed it probably emphasises my point somewhat. i
                think the root of what i'm getting at can be seen in aija's last
                paragraph "pairing comedy with the serious....different humourless
                idols". it is through comedy where we build the strongest of human
                relationships- if you can let your most embarrassing moments be recalled
                and exploited at your expense and do the same for friends isnt there a
                strong underlying trust behind this? to be that open about sensitive
                issues and deal with them in such a way not only takes maturity but balls
                too. sure it may be deconstruction but isnt that the best way to rebuild?
                knowing full well that i'm going to sound like an after school special
                but couldnt social boundaries be broken if people learned to critic
                themselves and others in a more constructive way or in essense couldnt we
                save the world through laughter? if institutions, individuals,
                communities found a way to be more funny...(i know its sounding kinda
                lame) but if this did infact happen wouldnt a balance be found? if
                laughter is the best medicine how come we dont listen to ourselves? if
                laughter or comedy is so important to social situations why is it often
                met with such resistance?

                if comedy is in essense picking on the weakest of the pack is it not
                aimed then at strenghtening the pack in an all inclusive way? is this not
                a more constructive way than say ethnic cleansing (i know thats the
                extreme)? speaking from expierence i have found that a cheeky smile and a
                wink can get you out of trouble, perhaps this is just because i'm irish,
                who knows? but then the question is, what is it about giving a cheeky
                smile a wink and being irish that can reduce social conflict
                considerably? it cant simply be as a result of my nationality so
                therefore it falls upon the cheeky smile and a wink (just to note, a
                cheeky smile and a wink can also work on me). there is something within
                humour that opens us up and makes us more tolerant but it is not being
                utilised by society or recognised for its abilities to cure, bond or
                speak to the masses in a cohereant way. plus its damn entertaining. i
                realise life cant be a circus but thats not what i'm getting at, i'm
                talking about a balance and a recognition of the potential comedy has.

                i'm well aware that my theory here is extremely idealistic but as i said
                in my first post i havent constructed my theory properly as of yet.
                nobody makes us cry like a clown makes us cry.

                dave

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "eduard at home"
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns
                Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 03:28:14 -0400

                Sometimes a well placed witticism can serve to emphasize a point. In the
                extreme, it may appear to be funny, but there also is a certain clarity
                and a note which gets to heart of a question or situation. How many of
                whatever to screw in a light bulb can apply to all sorts of things.

                Being funny is a skill. Some are adapt at the bon mot, others at
                stand-up comedy. For myself, I find that I simply can't do the latter.
                When I'm in a group and the jokes are being said around the table, I
                usually pass on my turn, since I will only screw up whatever I might hope
                to bring forth.

                eduard
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Aija Veldre Beldavs
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:51 AM
                Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns



                On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, dave minogue wrote:

                > When we look back through history many of the key figures had a keen
                > wit, eg leonardo da vinci, charles chaplin, shakespear, einstein,
                > stephen hawkins to name but a few.

                gotta add Mark Twain.
                to say nothing of lesser folk on the net coming up with new variants of
                the Evil Overlord, how many to screw in a lighbulb, you have two cows...
                humor is all around, the absurd can be approached with humor.

                together with the headman, wise woman, chief, assembly of elders or gods,
                or any other authority figure or the better folk came the trickster,
                joker, and fool to balance, offset, and set limits to the normative,
                formal, authoritative, elite, or else, at least at certain designated
                times to vent tension that high levels of restriction and control create.

                obviously the clown had to be pretty clever to know what one could get
                away with. otoh it's easier to deconstruct by making fun of something,
                than to create, and a good part of humor is dependent on someone else
                constructing or being something.

                there are different functions for humor, thus different theories. for
                starters, laughing (not the same as humor) as simple physiological
                release
                of stress, relief when the situation isn't mirthfully funny, but full of
                tension. humor may be dangerous, ambiguous, absurd, out of place, a
                breaking of frame, just plain strange but not so alarming that the fight
                or flight response is triggered instead.

                much of archaic male humor of warrior societies was aggressive hostility
                directed at others for the purpose of psychological abuse - softening up
                and diminishing the kill as before combat, while bonding the in-group.

                humor and bonding at the expense of someone else...

                in my dissertation about Latvian women's archaic ritual song wars,
                however, i elaborated on the purpose being the opposite, through abuse
                ritually creating a co-operative bond between two discrete groups that
                could also be potentially hostile.

                the emergence of the ability to diminish threat by humor, the ability
                to laugh also at oneself, to manipulate it to a greater range of goals...

                > lectures on how to be funny in colleges? why is it that the funniest
                > are also the saddest?

                but you've seen the two Greek masks of comedy and tragedy in pairs,
                haven't you?

                > its so important to our being yet it is something that is marginalised
                > well beyond its merit.

                the ancient Greek prioritization of tragedy as high culture and comedy as
                that of the masses continues and persists.

                > why is it that comedians make more sense than politicians?

                it's easier to make fun of something than to offer a working
                alternative.:)

                but pairing comedy wih the serious is a reminder of human hubris, to
                place
                limits on taking oneself too seriously. or maybe it's to discourage
                humans from setting up their different humorless idols.:)

                aija


                Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.

                b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



                SPONSORED LINKS

                Existentialism philosophy Philosophy book Existentialism
                Merleau-ponty Philosophy


                ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                * Visit your group "existlist" on the web.

                * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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              • eduard at home
                Perhaps Mark Twain could be added to the list. However, I have the feeling that he would be too dry for today s tastes. But, then what do I know?? As to
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 1, 2005
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                  Perhaps Mark Twain could be added to the list. However, I have the feeling that he would be too dry for today's tastes. But, then what do I know??

                  As to politics and humour, I think it would be very dangerous for a politician to try to be humourous. I never really works out, since there is always someone who might be offended. I recall at least the incident [not his name or department] of a US federal secretary who got canned for trying to explain how many minorities and challenged people he had on his staff. It is usually known as "insensitivity".

                  eduard at home
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: dave minogue
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:12 AM
                  Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns


                  Perhaps mark twain should be added to the list, i dont know much about
                  him, but its an ongoing list for sure. i cant tell whether my point is
                  being fully understood or articulated properly or if its being dismissed,
                  if it is being dismissed it probably emphasises my point somewhat. i
                  think the root of what i'm getting at can be seen in aija's last
                  paragraph "pairing comedy with the serious....different humourless
                  idols". it is through comedy where we build the strongest of human
                  relationships- if you can let your most embarrassing moments be recalled
                  and exploited at your expense and do the same for friends isnt there a
                  strong underlying trust behind this? to be that open about sensitive
                  issues and deal with them in such a way not only takes maturity but balls
                  too. sure it may be deconstruction but isnt that the best way to rebuild?
                  knowing full well that i'm going to sound like an after school special
                  but couldnt social boundaries be broken if people learned to critic
                  themselves and others in a more constructive way or in essense couldnt we
                  save the world through laughter? if institutions, individuals,
                  communities found a way to be more funny...(i know its sounding kinda
                  lame) but if this did infact happen wouldnt a balance be found? if
                  laughter is the best medicine how come we dont listen to ourselves? if
                  laughter or comedy is so important to social situations why is it often
                  met with such resistance?

                  if comedy is in essense picking on the weakest of the pack is it not
                  aimed then at strenghtening the pack in an all inclusive way? is this not
                  a more constructive way than say ethnic cleansing (i know thats the
                  extreme)? speaking from expierence i have found that a cheeky smile and a
                  wink can get you out of trouble, perhaps this is just because i'm irish,
                  who knows? but then the question is, what is it about giving a cheeky
                  smile a wink and being irish that can reduce social conflict
                  considerably? it cant simply be as a result of my nationality so
                  therefore it falls upon the cheeky smile and a wink (just to note, a
                  cheeky smile and a wink can also work on me). there is something within
                  humour that opens us up and makes us more tolerant but it is not being
                  utilised by society or recognised for its abilities to cure, bond or
                  speak to the masses in a cohereant way. plus its damn entertaining. i
                  realise life cant be a circus but thats not what i'm getting at, i'm
                  talking about a balance and a recognition of the potential comedy has.

                  i'm well aware that my theory here is extremely idealistic but as i said
                  in my first post i havent constructed my theory properly as of yet.
                  nobody makes us cry like a clown makes us cry.

                  dave

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "eduard at home"
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns
                  Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 03:28:14 -0400

                  Sometimes a well placed witticism can serve to emphasize a point. In the
                  extreme, it may appear to be funny, but there also is a certain clarity
                  and a note which gets to heart of a question or situation. How many of
                  whatever to screw in a light bulb can apply to all sorts of things.

                  Being funny is a skill. Some are adapt at the bon mot, others at
                  stand-up comedy. For myself, I find that I simply can't do the latter.
                  When I'm in a group and the jokes are being said around the table, I
                  usually pass on my turn, since I will only screw up whatever I might hope
                  to bring forth.

                  eduard
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Aija Veldre Beldavs
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:51 AM
                  Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns



                  On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, dave minogue wrote:

                  > When we look back through history many of the key figures had a keen
                  > wit, eg leonardo da vinci, charles chaplin, shakespear, einstein,
                  > stephen hawkins to name but a few.

                  gotta add Mark Twain.
                  to say nothing of lesser folk on the net coming up with new variants of
                  the Evil Overlord, how many to screw in a lighbulb, you have two cows...
                  humor is all around, the absurd can be approached with humor.

                  together with the headman, wise woman, chief, assembly of elders or gods,
                  or any other authority figure or the better folk came the trickster,
                  joker, and fool to balance, offset, and set limits to the normative,
                  formal, authoritative, elite, or else, at least at certain designated
                  times to vent tension that high levels of restriction and control create.

                  obviously the clown had to be pretty clever to know what one could get
                  away with. otoh it's easier to deconstruct by making fun of something,
                  than to create, and a good part of humor is dependent on someone else
                  constructing or being something.

                  there are different functions for humor, thus different theories. for
                  starters, laughing (not the same as humor) as simple physiological
                  release
                  of stress, relief when the situation isn't mirthfully funny, but full of
                  tension. humor may be dangerous, ambiguous, absurd, out of place, a
                  breaking of frame, just plain strange but not so alarming that the fight
                  or flight response is triggered instead.

                  much of archaic male humor of warrior societies was aggressive hostility
                  directed at others for the purpose of psychological abuse - softening up
                  and diminishing the kill as before combat, while bonding the in-group.

                  humor and bonding at the expense of someone else...

                  in my dissertation about Latvian women's archaic ritual song wars,
                  however, i elaborated on the purpose being the opposite, through abuse
                  ritually creating a co-operative bond between two discrete groups that
                  could also be potentially hostile.

                  the emergence of the ability to diminish threat by humor, the ability
                  to laugh also at oneself, to manipulate it to a greater range of goals...

                  > lectures on how to be funny in colleges? why is it that the funniest
                  > are also the saddest?

                  but you've seen the two Greek masks of comedy and tragedy in pairs,
                  haven't you?

                  > its so important to our being yet it is something that is marginalised
                  > well beyond its merit.

                  the ancient Greek prioritization of tragedy as high culture and comedy as
                  that of the masses continues and persists.

                  > why is it that comedians make more sense than politicians?

                  it's easier to make fun of something than to offer a working
                  alternative.:)

                  but pairing comedy wih the serious is a reminder of human hubris, to
                  place
                  limits on taking oneself too seriously. or maybe it's to discourage
                  humans from setting up their different humorless idols.:)

                  aija


                  Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                  Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



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                • trop_de_simones
                  Humor is an important part of life isn t it? Late night talk shows help us to laugh before we fall asleep, well that other activities, if we re so fortunate.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 1, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Humor is an important part of life isn't it? Late night talk shows
                    help us to laugh before we fall asleep, well that other activities,
                    if we're so fortunate. However, this kind of comedy is becoming less
                    sensitive and mean spirited. I enjoy the role playing comedians who
                    make us question (scepticism?) the status quo, like Sasha Baron-
                    Cohen. And forgive any redunancy, but how about the medieval
                    jongleur, the trickster of high Japanese cinema, and the masque or
                    farce? eduard is right on about politicians and humor: it seems they
                    have to apologize for every joke they make. Oh, and Absurd theatre. I
                    recall after the 9/11 attacks, it was the routine of humor that
                    helped us to feel somewhat normal again.

                    Simone

                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduard at home <yeoman@v...> wrote:
                    > Perhaps Mark Twain could be added to the list. However, I have the
                    feeling that he would be too dry for today's tastes. But, then what
                    do I know??
                    >
                    > As to politics and humour, I think it would be very dangerous for a
                    politician to try to be humourous. I never really works out, since
                    there is always someone who might be offended. I recall at least the
                    incident [not his name or department] of a US federal secretary who
                    got canned for trying to explain how many minorities and challenged
                    people he had on his staff. It is usually known as "insensitivity".
                    >
                    > eduard at home
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: dave minogue
                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:12 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns
                    >
                    >
                    > Perhaps mark twain should be added to the list, i dont know much
                    about
                    > him, but its an ongoing list for sure. i cant tell whether my
                    point is
                    > being fully understood or articulated properly or if its being
                    dismissed,
                    > if it is being dismissed it probably emphasises my point
                    somewhat. i
                    > think the root of what i'm getting at can be seen in aija's last
                    > paragraph "pairing comedy with the serious....different humourless
                    > idols". it is through comedy where we build the strongest of human
                    > relationships- if you can let your most embarrassing moments be
                    recalled
                    > and exploited at your expense and do the same for friends isnt
                    there a
                    > strong underlying trust behind this? to be that open about
                    sensitive
                    > issues and deal with them in such a way not only takes maturity
                    but balls
                    > too. sure it may be deconstruction but isnt that the best way to
                    rebuild?
                    > knowing full well that i'm going to sound like an after school
                    special
                    > but couldnt social boundaries be broken if people learned to
                    critic
                    > themselves and others in a more constructive way or in essense
                    couldnt we
                    > save the world through laughter? if institutions, individuals,
                    > communities found a way to be more funny...(i know its sounding
                    kinda
                    > lame) but if this did infact happen wouldnt a balance be found?
                    if
                    > laughter is the best medicine how come we dont listen to
                    ourselves? if
                    > laughter or comedy is so important to social situations why is it
                    often
                    > met with such resistance?
                    >
                    > if comedy is in essense picking on the weakest of the pack is it
                    not
                    > aimed then at strenghtening the pack in an all inclusive way? is
                    this not
                    > a more constructive way than say ethnic cleansing (i know thats
                    the
                    > extreme)? speaking from expierence i have found that a cheeky
                    smile and a
                    > wink can get you out of trouble, perhaps this is just because i'm
                    irish,
                    > who knows? but then the question is, what is it about giving a
                    cheeky
                    > smile a wink and being irish that can reduce social conflict
                    > considerably? it cant simply be as a result of my nationality so
                    > therefore it falls upon the cheeky smile and a wink (just to
                    note, a
                    > cheeky smile and a wink can also work on me). there is something
                    within
                    > humour that opens us up and makes us more tolerant but it is not
                    being
                    > utilised by society or recognised for its abilities to cure, bond
                    or
                    > speak to the masses in a cohereant way. plus its damn
                    entertaining. i
                    > realise life cant be a circus but thats not what i'm getting at,
                    i'm
                    > talking about a balance and a recognition of the potential comedy
                    has.
                    >
                    > i'm well aware that my theory here is extremely idealistic but as
                    i said
                    > in my first post i havent constructed my theory properly as of
                    yet.
                    > nobody makes us cry like a clown makes us cry.
                    >
                    > dave
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "eduard at home"
                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns
                    > Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 03:28:14 -0400
                    >
                    > Sometimes a well placed witticism can serve to emphasize a
                    point. In the
                    > extreme, it may appear to be funny, but there also is a certain
                    clarity
                    > and a note which gets to heart of a question or situation. How
                    many of
                    > whatever to screw in a light bulb can apply to all sorts of
                    things.
                    >
                    > Being funny is a skill. Some are adapt at the bon mot, others at
                    > stand-up comedy. For myself, I find that I simply can't do the
                    latter.
                    > When I'm in a group and the jokes are being said around the
                    table, I
                    > usually pass on my turn, since I will only screw up whatever I
                    might hope
                    > to bring forth.
                    >
                    > eduard
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Aija Veldre Beldavs
                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:51 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [existlist] Send in the clowns
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, dave minogue wrote:
                    >
                    > > When we look back through history many of the key figures had a
                    keen
                    > > wit, eg leonardo da vinci, charles chaplin, shakespear,
                    einstein,
                    > > stephen hawkins to name but a few.
                    >
                    > gotta add Mark Twain.
                    > to say nothing of lesser folk on the net coming up with new
                    variants of
                    > the Evil Overlord, how many to screw in a lighbulb, you have two
                    cows...
                    > humor is all around, the absurd can be approached with humor.
                    >
                    > together with the headman, wise woman, chief, assembly of elders
                    or gods,
                    > or any other authority figure or the better folk came the
                    trickster,
                    > joker, and fool to balance, offset, and set limits to the
                    normative,
                    > formal, authoritative, elite, or else, at least at certain
                    designated
                    > times to vent tension that high levels of restriction and control
                    create.
                    >
                    > obviously the clown had to be pretty clever to know what one
                    could get
                    > away with. otoh it's easier to deconstruct by making fun of
                    something,
                    > than to create, and a good part of humor is dependent on someone
                    else
                    > constructing or being something.
                    >
                    > there are different functions for humor, thus different
                    theories. for
                    > starters, laughing (not the same as humor) as simple physiological
                    > release
                    > of stress, relief when the situation isn't mirthfully funny, but
                    full of
                    > tension. humor may be dangerous, ambiguous, absurd, out of
                    place, a
                    > breaking of frame, just plain strange but not so alarming that
                    the fight
                    > or flight response is triggered instead.
                    >
                    > much of archaic male humor of warrior societies was aggressive
                    hostility
                    > directed at others for the purpose of psychological abuse -
                    softening up
                    > and diminishing the kill as before combat, while bonding the in-
                    group.
                    >
                    > humor and bonding at the expense of someone else...
                    >
                    > in my dissertation about Latvian women's archaic ritual song wars,
                    > however, i elaborated on the purpose being the opposite, through
                    abuse
                    > ritually creating a co-operative bond between two discrete groups
                    that
                    > could also be potentially hostile.
                    >
                    > the emergence of the ability to diminish threat by humor, the
                    ability
                    > to laugh also at oneself, to manipulate it to a greater range of
                    goals...
                    >
                    > > lectures on how to be funny in colleges? why is it that the
                    funniest
                    > > are also the saddest?
                    >
                    > but you've seen the two Greek masks of comedy and tragedy in
                    pairs,
                    > haven't you?
                    >
                    > > its so important to our being yet it is something that is
                    marginalised
                    > > well beyond its merit.
                    >
                    > the ancient Greek prioritization of tragedy as high culture and
                    comedy as
                    > that of the masses continues and persists.
                    >
                    > > why is it that comedians make more sense than politicians?
                    >
                    > it's easier to make fun of something than to offer a working
                    > alternative.:)
                    >
                    > but pairing comedy wih the serious is a reminder of human hubris,
                    to
                    > place
                    > limits on taking oneself too seriously. or maybe it's to
                    discourage
                    > humans from setting up their different humorless idols.:)
                    >
                    > aija
                    >
                    >
                    > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
                    nothing!
                    >
                    > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ------------
                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    > a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.
                    >
                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ------------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
                    nothing!
                    >
                    > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > SPONSORED LINKS
                    >
                    > Existentialism philosophy Philosophy book Existentialism
                    > Merleau-ponty Philosophy
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ------
                    >
                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    >
                    > * Visit your group "existlist" on the web.
                    >
                    > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                    ----
                    >
                    > --
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > For the largest FREE email in Ireland (25MB) and 20MB of online
                    file storage space - Visit http://www.campus.ie
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
                    nothing!
                    >
                    > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ----------
                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    > a.. Visit your group "existlist" on the web.
                    >
                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                    of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • eduard at home
                    Medieval jongleurs must have been something to see. Though, I suppose you needed to be up there at least at the knight level to get into the castle to see it.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 1, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Medieval jongleurs must have been something to see. Though, I suppose you needed to be up there at least at the knight level to get into the castle to see it. I would suspect that there would have been a lot of comedians amongst the serfs. Like the guy who pretends he slips on a cow paddy. But then a lot of comedy was visceral. Like throwing a tomato at the prisoner in the pillory ... great fun during the evening walk. ha ha ha ....

                      And then there are the childrens' fun poems like "Ring around the Rosie" which describes dying from Bubonic Plague.

                      eduard at home
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: trop_de_simones
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:02 PM
                      Subject: [existlist] Re: Send in the clowns


                      Humor is an important part of life isn't it? Late night talk shows
                      help us to laugh before we fall asleep, well that other activities,
                      if we're so fortunate. However, this kind of comedy is becoming less
                      sensitive and mean spirited. I enjoy the role playing comedians who
                      make us question (scepticism?) the status quo, like Sasha Baron-
                      Cohen. And forgive any redunancy, but how about the medieval
                      jongleur, the trickster of high Japanese cinema, and the masque or
                      farce? eduard is right on about politicians and humor: it seems they
                      have to apologize for every joke they make. Oh, and Absurd theatre. I
                      recall after the 9/11 attacks, it was the routine of humor that
                      helped us to feel somewhat normal again.

                      Simone


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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