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Re: an Eastern fable....a Western metaphor

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  • louise
    hey, i m getting echoes of the great Tim Buckley again ... you also make me laugh at myself. how could i possibly hear these lines a la radio 4. mind you, i
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 29, 2005
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      hey, i'm getting echoes of the great Tim Buckley again ...

      you also make me laugh at myself. how could i possibly hear these
      lines a la radio 4. mind you, i simplify. there are diverse
      accents broadcasting even from the most staid of radio stations. it
      is the news programmes which veer, for practical reasons, it is
      argued, toward a standard speech.

      louie's no preacher ....

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Trinidad Cruz" <cruzprdb@w...>
      wrote:
      > Well Mack the Finger said to Louie the King
      > I got forty red white and blue shoe strings
      > And a thousand telephones that don't ring
      > Do you know where I can get rid of these things
      > And Louie the King said let me think for a minute son
      > And he said yes I think it can be easily done
      > Just take everything down to Highway 61.
      >
      > done and done
      >
      > tc
    • Bob Keyes
      ... From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of bhvwd Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 10:50 AM To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 29, 2005
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        -----Original Message-----
        From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com]On
        Behalf Of bhvwd
        Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 10:50 AM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [existlist] Fusion France


        It seems the looming oil depletion has kicked the oil barrons off
        their ground zero high horse.The new plant will be built in south of
        france and a peep hole is opening up on the future. I hope people
        cleave to the new life style that will develope . I am also glad an
        european country will try out the new technology as they were the
        seed bed of science. The japs have only been duplicators I would not
        trust them with such innovation.

        Bob. I have this emotional feeling about Japs as well, However I think it is
        completely wrong. Japs are tops in IQ and are one of the most successful
        countries in the world.
        They are an underdog since they have not been leaders in science,(the
        deepest possible thought on anything is required). But Like a good Prize
        fight I would not consider them an intellectual knockout to the west in
        innovation. If the Chinese are even smarter than Japs we are in big trouble.







        We will probably not see big scale use of fusion power but it is
        good to know the old world greed will be overturned. Fuck the arabs
        and their goddamned oil. Let them blow themselves to hell in the
        wasteland and if they continue to harass the modern world we can
        always make a final finish of their sick societys.


        Bob.... People will Still be greedy even with Fusion. That is in Human
        Nature.
        And that will not change in 50 years.
        I think our society is sick. (Better than all the rest- and I am not
        complaining really-but I seriously am)
        Humans and all animals need to dominate by nature. Individual Freedom does
        not exist.
        It will take an intellectual leap vs Raw Emotion to change that.
        Unfortunately one group
        will always try to stomp out the other group, they just can let them live.
        (Some Wild speculation)



        In the interregnum the present dinosaur politicals can cobble
        togeather coalitions of convience with all the corruption and
        decadance we have grown to expect. Over all I think we have earned the
        right to not give a shit about the arabs, the politicians and all the
        crazy disorder they engender. They are a puddle in the road and not
        worth a great deal of our time.


        Bob. I agree, to help them is not what I want to do with my money. I
        especially
        don't like them because they are not secular in thinking. I feel Like I am
        dealing with Ape-Brains. It is in My Nature to want to wipe them out, and I
        do, But as a Rationalist
        I say neuter them (militarily of course) and then let them have their folly,
        the world will move on without them.
        After all it is their choice and that is the essence of freedom.
        Bob...


        Bill




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      • Ehab Shoubaki
        On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:49:53 -0000, bhvwd ... Hey Bill, Here lies an Arab, a secular one , a nihilist even , yet an Arab nevertheless with broken grammar and
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 29, 2005
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          On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:49:53 -0000, "bhvwd"
          <v.valleywestdental@...> said:
          > Let them blow themselves to hell in the
          > wasteland and if they continue to harass the modern world we can
          > always make a final finish of their sick societys.
          > In the interregnum the present dinosaur politicals can cobble
          > togeather coalitions of convience with all the corruption and
          > decadance we have grown to expect. Over all I think we have earned the
          > right to not give a shit about the arabs, the politicians and all the
          > crazy disorder they engender. They are a puddle in the road and not
          > worth a great deal of our time. Bill
          >

          Hey Bill,

          Here lies an Arab, a secular one , a nihilist even , yet an Arab
          nevertheless with broken grammar and all. All I'll say is
          Generalization and lumping together of peoples is not a sign of acute
          understanding in social and political matters.

          You seem to do the same for the japs. so it is your general mentality
          rather than a one-time thing.

          I call this mentality the Star-Trek syndrome . (you know , the violent
          Klingons , the greedy Ferengi , the snaky Romulans)

          take care
          ehab
        • Jeffrey Tate
          I agree, Ehab. Gross generalizations and categorically damning a group--even our present politicals--is inaccurate and dangerous thinking. Usually it is a
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 30, 2005
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            I agree, Ehab.

            Gross generalizations and categorically damning a group--even our
            present politicals--is inaccurate and dangerous thinking. Usually it is
            a ventilation of anger and frustration. Sometimes it's just a lazy way
            to get closure.

            Jeff

            -----Original Message-----
            From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Ehab Shoubaki
            Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:37 PM
            To: existlist
            Subject: Re: [existlist] Fusion France




            On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:49:53 -0000, "bhvwd"
            <v.valleywestdental@...> said:
            > Let them blow themselves to hell in the
            > wasteland and if they continue to harass the modern world we can
            > always make a final finish of their sick societys.
            > In the interregnum the present dinosaur politicals can cobble
            > togeather coalitions of convience with all the corruption and
            > decadance we have grown to expect. Over all I think we have earned the

            > right to not give a shit about the arabs, the politicians and all the
            > crazy disorder they engender. They are a puddle in the road and not
            > worth a great deal of our time. Bill
            >

            Hey Bill,

            Here lies an Arab, a secular one , a nihilist even , yet an Arab
            nevertheless with broken grammar and all. All I'll say is
            Generalization and lumping together of peoples is not a sign of acute
            understanding in social and political matters.

            You seem to do the same for the japs. so it is your general mentality
            rather than a one-time thing.

            I call this mentality the Star-Trek syndrome . (you know , the violent
            Klingons , the greedy Ferengi , the snaky Romulans)

            take care
            ehab


            Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
            nothing!

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          • Aija Veldre Beldavs
            i m just dismayed at how many bright, advantaged people fall to stereotyping while condemning it on principle. looking for the positive in for instance Nature
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 30, 2005
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              i'm just dismayed at how many bright, advantaged people fall to
              stereotyping while condemning it on principle.

              looking for the positive in for instance Nature magazine:

              <At the G8 summit in Britain next month, developed nations will discuss
              how to promote development in the poorest parts of Africa. Ahead of the
              meeting, Nature has asked key figures from across the continent what they
              think the priorities are, and how the G8 should help countries to move out
              of poverty.

              "Hunger, disease, child mortality, clean water, hygiene, environmental
              stability, education, and gender equality - practically all major problems
              African people are facing today have a link to science, or require the
              help of scientists for their solutions."
              /Romain Murenzi, Rwandan Minister of Education, Science, Technology, and
              Scientific Research/

              and of course there are many desperately poor people and nations in the
              world who are at the point where they feel they have nothing to loose.

              aija

              > I agree, Ehab.
              > Gross generalizations and categorically damning a group--even our
              > present politicals--is inaccurate and dangerous thinking. Usually it is
              > a ventilation of anger and frustration. Sometimes it's just a lazy way
              > to get closure. Jeff

              >> Let them blow themselves to hell in the
              >> wasteland and if they continue to harass the modern world we can
              >> always make a final finish of their sick societys.
              >> In the interregnum the present dinosaur politicals can cobble
              >> togeather coalitions of convience with all the corruption and
              >> decadance we have grown to expect. Over all I think we have earned the
              >
              >> right to not give a shit about the arabs, the politicians and all the
              >> crazy disorder they engender. They are a puddle in the road and not
              >> worth a great deal of our time. Bill

              > Here lies an Arab, a secular one , a nihilist even , yet an Arab
              > nevertheless with broken grammar and all. All I'll say is
              > Generalization and lumping together of peoples is not a sign of acute
              > understanding in social and political matters.
              >
              > You seem to do the same for the japs. so it is your general mentality
              > rather than a one-time thing.
              >
              > I call this mentality the Star-Trek syndrome . (you know , the violent
              > Klingons , the greedy Ferengi , the snaky Romulans)
              >
              > take care
              > ehab
            • Jeffrey Tate
              Well, I suspect that stereotyping is something we are programmed to do; so it s difficult to resist. Stereotyping allows us to quickly classify someone as
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 30, 2005
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                Well, I suspect that stereotyping is something we are programmed to do;
                so it's difficult to resist. Stereotyping allows us to quickly classify
                someone as friend or foe (among other classifications)--a very gross and
                often inaccurate classification, of course.

                For example, the (now fading) Kerry for President bumper sticker on my
                car allows others to immediately classify me according to their
                stereotype of Kerry supporters. Some of their assumptions will be
                accurate; many others won't.

                This stereotyping inclination is a huge factor in human affairs--often
                for ill. But I suspect we couldn't get through the day without using it
                to some degree.

                Jeff

                -----Original Message-----
                From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Aija Veldre Beldavs
                Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 9:03 AM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [existlist] Fusion France



                i'm just dismayed at how many bright, advantaged people fall to
                stereotyping while condemning it on principle.

                looking for the positive in for instance Nature magazine:

                <At the G8 summit in Britain next month, developed nations will discuss
                how to promote development in the poorest parts of Africa. Ahead of the
                meeting, Nature has asked key figures from across the continent what
                they
                think the priorities are, and how the G8 should help countries to move
                out
                of poverty.

                "Hunger, disease, child mortality, clean water, hygiene, environmental
                stability, education, and gender equality - practically all major
                problems
                African people are facing today have a link to science, or require the
                help of scientists for their solutions."
                /Romain Murenzi, Rwandan Minister of Education, Science, Technology,
                and
                Scientific Research/

                and of course there are many desperately poor people and nations in the
                world who are at the point where they feel they have nothing to loose.

                aija

                > I agree, Ehab.
                > Gross generalizations and categorically damning a group--even our
                > present politicals--is inaccurate and dangerous thinking. Usually it
                is
                > a ventilation of anger and frustration. Sometimes it's just a lazy way
                > to get closure. Jeff

                >> Let them blow themselves to hell in the
                >> wasteland and if they continue to harass the modern world we can
                >> always make a final finish of their sick societys.
                >> In the interregnum the present dinosaur politicals can cobble
                >> togeather coalitions of convience with all the corruption and
                >> decadance we have grown to expect. Over all I think we have earned
                the
                >
                >> right to not give a shit about the arabs, the politicians and all the
                >> crazy disorder they engender. They are a puddle in the road and not
                >> worth a great deal of our time. Bill

                > Here lies an Arab, a secular one , a nihilist even , yet an Arab
                > nevertheless with broken grammar and all. All I'll say is
                > Generalization and lumping together of peoples is not a sign of acute
                > understanding in social and political matters.
                >
                > You seem to do the same for the japs. so it is your general mentality
                > rather than a one-time thing.
                >
                > I call this mentality the Star-Trek syndrome . (you know , the violent
                > Klingons , the greedy Ferengi , the snaky Romulans)
                >
                > take care
                > ehab


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              • Aija Veldre Beldavs
                ... yes, stereotyping is part of basic thought process, essential in emergency situations and saving time in terms of probabilities in everyday situations.
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 30, 2005
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                  > Well, I suspect that stereotyping is something we are programmed to do;
                  > so it's difficult to resist. Stereotyping allows us to quickly classify
                  > someone as friend or foe (among other classifications)--a very gross and
                  > often inaccurate classification, of course.
                  > Jeff

                  yes, stereotyping is part of basic thought process, essential in emergency
                  situations and saving time in terms of probabilities in everyday
                  situations. however, an academic has the responsibility and when
                  publically stating should make effor to make time to examine such
                  assumptions (the uncommon in the common as well as the common in the
                  uncommon), and it becomes mandatory when reasonably challenged.

                  sf (science fiction) is a great way of supposing, exploring the limits of
                  the world one has created. as in folklore, there are recurring themes,
                  formulae, conventions, but in successful performance they are played out
                  with relevant imagination.

                  aija
                • George Walton
                  I like that. Mary Jo Malo wrote: George, I lick the honey in between each phone call. Mary ... Outsider s attitude to other men: he
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 30, 2005
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                    I like that.



                    Mary Jo Malo <maryjomalo@...> wrote:
                    George,

                    I lick the honey in between each phone call.

                    Mary

                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > From The Outsider by Colin Wilson:
                    >
                    > "Tolstoy has found a parable that brings home to the full the
                    Outsider's attitude to other men: he cites an Eastern fable of a man
                    who clings to a shrub on the side of a pit to escape an enraged beast
                    at the top and a dragon at the bottom. Two mice gnaw on the roots of
                    his shrub. Yet while hanging, waiting for death, he notices some
                    drops of honey on the leaves of the shrub, and reaches out and licks
                    them. This is man, suspended between the possibilities of violent
                    accident death and inevitable natural death, diseases accelerating
                    them, yet still eating, drinking, laughing at Fernandal in the
                    cinema. This is the man who calls the Outsider morbid because he
                    lacks the appetite for honey!"
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > That, it seems, is as reasonable a similitude for encompassing
                    the "human condition" as any other. To say "I am" is perforce to
                    imply "I was not", "I might not have been", "I may not be", "I will
                    not be". The part in the middle therefore must revolve around licking
                    up as much honey as you are able. There is, after all, no other
                    recourse...and no other reason one can think of in the shadow of the
                    abyss.
                    >
                    > So says the optimist.
                    >
                    > The pessimist, however, would, no doubt, be more inclined to
                    embrace the metaphor proposed by John Folwes in The Aristos. It
                    revolves aound imagining human existence as a man sitting at a desk.
                    On top of the desk are various telephones. Each telephone represents
                    a potential calamity one might encounter along the cosmological blink
                    of an eye trajectory from dust to dust. For example: death, sickness,
                    insolvency, lost love, impotence, missed opportunity, money woes,
                    collapsing career, family crisis, emotional and psychological
                    travail, philosphical despair, a crisis of faith, crime, war, social
                    injustice, political outrage, terrorism, prejudice and discrimination
                    etc etc etc.
                    >
                    > Life then basically consist of waiting for the next phone to ring.
                    And hoping it is one of the smaller ones...or the only one.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > george
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                  • George Walton
                    That verse pales next to: God said to Abraham, kill me a son Abe said man you must be puttin me on God said, no Abe said What? God said Abe you can
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 30, 2005
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                      That verse pales next to:

                      God said to Abraham, "kill me a son"
                      Abe said "man you must be puttin' me on"
                      God said, "no"
                      Abe said "What?"
                      God said "Abe you can do what you want, but,
                      the next time you see me comin'
                      you better run"
                      Abe said, "Where do you want this killing done?"
                      God said, "down on highway 61"

                      Lots of phones down there to be sure.
                      But you better bring your own honey.

                      g

                      Trinidad Cruz <cruzprdb@...> wrote:
                      Well Mack the Finger said to Louie the King
                      I got forty red white and blue shoe strings
                      And a thousand telephones that don't ring
                      Do you know where I can get rid of these things
                      And Louie the King said let me think for a minute son
                      And he said yes I think it can be easily done
                      Just take everything down to Highway 61.

                      done and done

                      tc

                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo Malo" <maryjomalo@y...> wrote:
                      > George,
                      >
                      > I lick the honey in between each phone call.
                      >
                      > Mary
                      >
                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > From The Outsider by Colin Wilson:
                      > >
                      > > "Tolstoy has found a parable that brings home to the full the
                      > Outsider's attitude to other men: he cites an Eastern fable of a man
                      > who clings to a shrub on the side of a pit to escape an enraged beast
                      > at the top and a dragon at the bottom. Two mice gnaw on the roots of
                      > his shrub. Yet while hanging, waiting for death, he notices some
                      > drops of honey on the leaves of the shrub, and reaches out and licks
                      > them. This is man, suspended between the possibilities of violent
                      > accident death and inevitable natural death, diseases accelerating
                      > them, yet still eating, drinking, laughing at Fernandal in the
                      > cinema. This is the man who calls the Outsider morbid because he
                      > lacks the appetite for honey!"
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > That, it seems, is as reasonable a similitude for encompassing
                      > the "human condition" as any other. To say "I am" is perforce to
                      > imply "I was not", "I might not have been", "I may not be", "I will
                      > not be". The part in the middle therefore must revolve around licking
                      > up as much honey as you are able. There is, after all, no other
                      > recourse...and no other reason one can think of in the shadow of the
                      > abyss.
                      > >
                      > > So says the optimist.
                      > >
                      > > The pessimist, however, would, no doubt, be more inclined to
                      > embrace the metaphor proposed by John Folwes in The Aristos. It
                      > revolves aound imagining human existence as a man sitting at a desk.
                      > On top of the desk are various telephones. Each telephone represents
                      > a potential calamity one might encounter along the cosmological blink
                      > of an eye trajectory from dust to dust. For example: death, sickness,
                      > insolvency, lost love, impotence, missed opportunity, money woes,
                      > collapsing career, family crisis, emotional and psychological
                      > travail, philosphical despair, a crisis of faith, crime, war, social
                      > injustice, political outrage, terrorism, prejudice and discrimination
                      > etc etc etc.
                      > >
                      > > Life then basically consist of waiting for the next phone to ring.
                      > And hoping it is one of the smaller ones...or the only one.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > george
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > __________________________________________________
                      > > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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