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  • NEFILIM001@aol.com
    Dear Nolan; You state: ...important link in the differentiation between Christianity and Existentialism . You further share: ...those seeing an
    Message 1 of 3 , May 30, 2005
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      Dear Nolan;

      You state:
      "...important link in the differentiation between 'Christianity'
      and 'Existentialism'. "

      <||>

      You further share:
      "...those seeing an 'avant-garde' aspect
      of 'orthodoxy,' especially for those who think they have
      Christianity [[so figured out]] in their phenomenological perceptions."
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      You have a fantastically wonderful range of ThoughtProcesses, Research,
      Perception, Knowledge and Understanding...but--{were we to have been
      communicating within a ChristianSITE instead of a PhiloSITE,} there is KnowWay(!)
      Believers-In-A-(traditional)GodHead would accept any kind of 'link' between
      Christianity and Existentialism. I expect most religious persons--in any way
      knowledgeable about Existentialism would run screaming from the very thought!
      ReReading (most) definitions of this my favorite philosophy/way-of-Existentence,
      I think we both might know this to be Truth.
      To be honest about it, I expect I'd likely be physically kicked out
      of any (especially Southern Baptist) Fundamentalist community!
      In my humble opinion, Existentialism and Christianity, or (most/all
      RELIGIONs of sorts) -- are 180 degree polar-opposites of each other. {{I
      expect that within the (admittedly sometimes wide) definition of Existentialism,
      is the understanding that We Believe In Our Individual SELVEs, and choose to
      Take Full Responsibility for Everything we do--not at all leaving our
      "salvation" in the hands of a relatively UnForgiving bearded religious
      characature[sp/?], wearing a long white robe and golden slippers; carrying a long
      'stick'--and dwelling just atop the most delicate of fluffy white clouds.}}
      The facts of the matter(s) and Understanding(s) between each
      [philosophy]--begging your pardon regarding the question of a better term
      herein--are a WormHole apart!
      Like most of us I feel sure, who reside within this ExistList
      sphere, I attended Protestant Bible camp/Missionary school [others among you, your
      own Other kinds/styles of Religious Training] for about 7 straight years,
      and we were required to read, understand the various Books; and memorize the
      "Great Book" from Genesis to Revelations!!!! Looking back on it, in today's
      'protective environment' the practice might well be regarded as child labor of
      a sort...Ha. Among other kinds of intimidation and cheerful inducement, the
      Elder's method(s) of prosletyzment(sp) was to give us at first just little
      gifts and trophies, and then bigger and more arts n' crafts & 'interesting'
      things to do.
      Their top-of-the-line gift was [free, all expenses paid]--two weeks
      to Bible Camp. That was the 'Biggie'! We of course thought it was all in
      fun, and further we were really just pleasing our folks. Looking back on it,
      I'm sure I would have done the very same thing each year to secure my Boy
      Scouts camp fees: [all expenses included]!)

      Young folks, (and surely you know that's when they GET us) will do whatever
      is "interesting" and grips our attention-in-the-moment. Some kids were
      threatened with a 'whipping' were we not in obeisance of older folks
      Rules...back-in-the-day!
      In my humble opinion MOST Human Beings on the planet still remain
      within some trained/taught Faith! There is a scairy/frightening Fear were we
      to even think of abandoning our "Secured Place Where Our Names Have Been
      Inscribed Within That Great Book Way Up There."
      Only a VERY few of us [[my honest calculation--knowing how we must
      Fear (the possibility/probability of) HellFire & Damnation]], will actually
      question the Security of a Warm and Lovely Religion which our responsible
      Elders has passed-on to us. We are/were too young to Choose for ourselves at the
      time we were 'Hooked-On-Religion'... . Who among us is seriously brave
      enough to [Philosophyze(sp) our Selves) OUT of ANY particular Religious Stream?
      Regardless our big brave statement to the contrary, The
      DeathBed-Daze is the final Test: "Now I lay me down to sleep...If I should die before I
      awake... . Most of us can fill in the blanks--again, quite like a modern
      Nursery Rhyme brain-mended from Early childhood!
      My "religious-out" was opportune when I chose to leave home so soon
      after graduation; (I honestly consider myself *lucky.) Working on Wall
      Street early on, I put myself through NYU. The Open-mindedness college studies
      and especially Zen broke, (still over a number of years,) the strong bond of
      processed Religion. I slowly LEARNED to stand OutSide my Self; my Community;
      their Religion and TheirRules--and actually SEE what I was "given", from a
      much wider perspective.


      Once again I have 'opined' far too long;
      Sincerely,
      Frank
      ps: To this day, though I do tend to speak perhaps too energetically to
      others at times, about a (fresh) kind of Objective View of the Universe--and
      all that [view] Presupposes--I like to think I work hard at (merely sharing,
      though-[expectantly]-not-preaching) my own Differing Views.

      pps: Existentialism -- For A Month Of Sundays! :::smiling::: \;-)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • C. S. Wyatt
      ... The problem with this statement is that so many existential thinkers come from the theistic branch of the field. I don t agree with them, in the sense of
      Message 2 of 3 , May 31, 2005
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        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, NEFILIM001@a... wrote:
        > You have a fantastically wonderful range of ThoughtProcesses, Research,
        > Perception, Knowledge and Understanding...but--{were we to have been
        > communicating within a ChristianSITE instead of a PhiloSITE,} there is KnowWay(!)
        > Believers-In-A-(traditional)GodHead would accept any kind of 'link' between
        > Christianity and Existentialism.

        The problem with this statement is that so many "existential thinkers" come from the
        theistic branch of the field. I don't agree with them, in the sense of accepting there is a life
        form or something out there thinking about human existence, but they are a major
        collection of thinkers in both philosophy and existentialism:

        Kierkegaard, Tillich, Buber, May, Marcel, Frankl, Barth, Simmons, Jaspers, and others. Even
        Dostoevsky's contributions can't be ignored.

        I don't see how you can have existentialism without Kierkegaard and Jaspers in the list of
        thinkers. (As I recall, Jaspers married a Jewish woman, but I'd have to check my site notes.)

        I'm particularly interested in Frankl and Buber, having just finished writing on Kafka over
        the last six months. Buber was definitely a man of deep faith, which is why he was so
        instrumental in the founding of the Zionist movement.

        You can believe in a Creator that "made mankind, but like a parent is apart from His
        children" according to Buber. Part of me rates that with the notions of aliens leaving us
        behind, but I also admit to having no clue what forces exist in the universe.

        My big catch is that I don't consider what is beyond earth, since it clearly won't change my
        daily routine.

        - CSW
      • nolanhatley
        Frank, I ve admired your insights and thoughts, and can surely you speak the truth of your Subjective experience. The key word in that last, probabbly
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 1, 2005
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          Frank,

          I've admired your insights and thoughts, and can surely you speak
          the truth of your Subjective experience. The key word in that last,
          probabbly obnoxious post, was differentiation. Their may not be
          much of a relationship between the official denominations
          and "existentiaslism" per se, but there is definitely a relationhsip
          between the individuial questers of existentialism
          and "Christianity" (and by that, I mean the Western historical
          movement often at odds with Jesus' life, which I still believe is
          the Truth). Still, no command has yet been given for another
          reformation. I finished the book recently, and am enviogred for
          more study and research. Frank, you seem to be a gentle Nietzche,
          and seemingly stronger for it. Thank you.

          Grace and Peace,

          Nolan

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, NEFILIM001@a... wrote:
          > Dear Nolan;
          >
          > You state:
          > "...important link in the differentiation
          between 'Christianity'
          > and 'Existentialism'. "
          >
          > <||>
          >
          > You further share:
          > "...those seeing an 'avant-garde' aspect
          > of 'orthodoxy,' especially for those who think they have
          > Christianity [[so figured out]] in their phenomenological
          perceptions."
          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          >
          > You have a fantastically wonderful range of ThoughtProcesses,
          Research,
          > Perception, Knowledge and Understanding...but--{were we to have
          been
          > communicating within a ChristianSITE instead of a PhiloSITE,}
          there is KnowWay(!)
          > Believers-In-A-(traditional)GodHead would accept any kind
          of 'link' between
          > Christianity and Existentialism. I expect most religious persons-
          -in any way
          > knowledgeable about Existentialism would run screaming from the
          very thought!
          > ReReading (most) definitions of this my favorite philosophy/way-
          of-Existentence,
          > I think we both might know this to be Truth.
          > To be honest about it, I expect I'd likely be physically
          kicked out
          > of any (especially Southern Baptist) Fundamentalist community!
          > In my humble opinion, Existentialism and Christianity, or
          (most/all
          > RELIGIONs of sorts) -- are 180 degree polar-opposites of each
          other. {{I
          > expect that within the (admittedly sometimes wide) definition of
          Existentialism,
          > is the understanding that We Believe In Our Individual SELVEs,
          and choose to
          > Take Full Responsibility for Everything we do--not at all leaving
          our
          > "salvation" in the hands of a relatively UnForgiving bearded
          religious
          > characature[sp/?], wearing a long white robe and golden slippers;
          carrying a long
          > 'stick'--and dwelling just atop the most delicate of fluffy white
          clouds.}}
          > The facts of the matter(s) and Understanding(s) between
          each
          > [philosophy]--begging your pardon regarding the question of a
          better term
          > herein--are a WormHole apart!
          > Like most of us I feel sure, who reside within this
          ExistList
          > sphere, I attended Protestant Bible camp/Missionary school
          [others among you, your
          > own Other kinds/styles of Religious Training] for about 7
          straight years,
          > and we were required to read, understand the various Books; and
          memorize the
          > "Great Book" from Genesis to Revelations!!!! Looking back on it,
          in today's
          > 'protective environment' the practice might well be regarded as
          child labor of
          > a sort...Ha. Among other kinds of intimidation and cheerful
          inducement, the
          > Elder's method(s) of prosletyzment(sp) was to give us at first
          just little
          > gifts and trophies, and then bigger and more arts n' crafts
          & 'interesting'
          > things to do.
          > Their top-of-the-line gift was [free, all expenses paid]--
          two weeks
          > to Bible Camp. That was the 'Biggie'! We of course thought it
          was all in
          > fun, and further we were really just pleasing our folks. Looking
          back on it,
          > I'm sure I would have done the very same thing each year to
          secure my Boy
          > Scouts camp fees: [all expenses included]!)
          >
          > Young folks, (and surely you know that's when they GET us) will do
          whatever
          > is "interesting" and grips our attention-in-the-moment. Some
          kids were
          > threatened with a 'whipping' were we not in obeisance of older
          folks
          > Rules...back-in-the-day!
          > In my humble opinion MOST Human Beings on the planet
          still remain
          > within some trained/taught Faith! There is a scairy/frightening
          Fear were we
          > to even think of abandoning our "Secured Place Where Our Names
          Have Been
          > Inscribed Within That Great Book Way Up There."
          > Only a VERY few of us [[my honest calculation--knowing
          how we must
          > Fear (the possibility/probability of) HellFire & Damnation]],
          will actually
          > question the Security of a Warm and Lovely Religion which our
          responsible
          > Elders has passed-on to us. We are/were too young to Choose for
          ourselves at the
          > time we were 'Hooked-On-Religion'... . Who among us is seriously
          brave
          > enough to [Philosophyze(sp) our Selves) OUT of ANY particular
          Religious Stream?
          > Regardless our big brave statement to the contrary, The
          > DeathBed-Daze is the final Test: "Now I lay me down to sleep...If
          I should die before I
          > awake... . Most of us can fill in the blanks--again, quite like
          a modern
          > Nursery Rhyme brain-mended from Early childhood!
          > My "religious-out" was opportune when I chose to leave
          home so soon
          > after graduation; (I honestly consider myself *lucky.) Working
          on Wall
          > Street early on, I put myself through NYU. The Open-mindedness
          college studies
          > and especially Zen broke, (still over a number of years,) the
          strong bond of
          > processed Religion. I slowly LEARNED to stand OutSide my Self;
          my Community;
          > their Religion and TheirRules--and actually SEE what I
          was "given", from a
          > much wider perspective.
          >
          >
          > Once again I have 'opined' far too long;
          > Sincerely,
          > Frank
          > ps: To this day, though I do tend to speak perhaps too
          energetically to
          > others at times, about a (fresh) kind of Objective View of the
          Universe--and
          > all that [view] Presupposes--I like to think I work hard at
          (merely sharing,
          > though-[expectantly]-not-preaching) my own Differing Views.
          >
          > pps: Existentialism -- For A Month Of Sundays! :::smiling::: \;-)
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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