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forced perspectives

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  • Siobhan
    Bill, I think it s hard to convince someone who has never been raised in a strict religious tradition that there s anything intrinsically wrong with a
    Message 1 of 3 , May 2, 2005
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      Bill,

      I think it's hard to convince someone who has never been raised in a
      strict religious tradition that there's anything intrinsically 'wrong'
      with a personal faith apart from the religious herd. And I suppose
      they're far less harmful and free to explore their personal meaning in
      a private context. However, I've found that the syncretism (Trini's
      description) of religious traditions has fused into a babble of
      imprecise and impractical guidelines for individual meaning. To
      attribute our meaning to some mysterious force embodied as a Being
      simply doesn't provide the empowerment to face the nothing that
      pervades our being and our inevitable demise. I can say 'it's your
      thang, do what you wanna do. I can't tell you, who to sock it to.' Just
      don't sock it to me. I'm not interested in telling anyone else how to
      live, but they've usually got plenty of advice for me. It's the nature
      of that particular beast called fear. It masks itself as loving concern.
      If I were to embrace dieties, they certainly wouldn't be monotheistic
      or male . . . well some of them might be . . . Siobhan
    • Bob Keyes
      Comments...Some Crazy thoughts for a change. ... From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Siobhan Sent: Monday, May 02,
      Message 2 of 3 , May 2, 2005
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        Comments...Some Crazy thoughts for a change.
        -----Original Message-----
        From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com]On
        Behalf Of Siobhan
        Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 9:43 PM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [existlist] forced perspectives


        Bill,

        I think it's hard to convince someone who has never been raised in a
        strict religious tradition that there's anything intrinsically 'wrong'
        with a personal faith apart from the religious herd. And I suppose
        they're far less harmful and free to explore their personal meaning in
        a private context. However, I've found that the syncretism (Trini's
        description) of religious traditions has fused into a babble of
        imprecise and impractical guidelines for individual meaning. To
        attribute our meaning to some mysterious force embodied as a Being
        simply doesn't provide the empowerment to face the nothing that
        pervades our being and our inevitable demise.


        [Bob Keyes]

        When you say Demise do you Mean Individually or as a species ? Nobody
        thinks about the species , we are to selfish for that. I will comment on the
        individual. Probably the best way for humans to deal with death is to not
        think about it at all. Start a Philosophy that refuses to think about it.
        Then when you die poof its over. No Grief over it. You have lived your Life
        happy. (Just thinking out of the box for the moment)



        Now with regard to the Battle : (Science vs. Religious Herd)
        They can make no more sense of Logic than you can of Mysticism. There is
        no way short of evolutionary genetic Change that will alter that much. You
        may say, ohh, lets educate them. But Most are to stupid to learn high school
        geometry let alone understand Evolution, as oppose to a simple 1 God Theory.
        I will use myself as an example. What are the chances of somebody convincing
        me the God concept makes sense ( other that just Defining God as Nature-
        which is of course not their point) , my guess Very close to zero, unless he
        Appeared and could somehow convince me that he was not just some advanced
        race playing with me like an ANT. I admit I am at an extreme end of the
        spectrum, Now imagine the Opposite could also happen. Your Dealing with Some
        Religious Nut (other end of the spectrum) and you try to convince him in
        Evolution. It would be just as impossible. And to Each Brain they have their
        own characterization of Meaning, which makes it Thrive I.e be happy ( in its
        own environment)
        Having Said that I am not sure who will win... I hope it is My Side. (For
        no other reason than evolution makes me think of my side first all else
        being equal)


        I can say 'it's your
        thang, do what you wanna do. I can't tell you, who to sock it to.' Just
        don't sock it to me. I'm not interested in telling anyone else how to
        live, but they've usually got plenty of advice for me. It's the nature
        of that particular beast called fear. It masks itself as loving concern.
        If I were to embrace dieties, they certainly wouldn't be monotheistic
        or male . . . well some of them might be . . .


        [Bob Keyes] Completely Agree !
        Bob..Comments ?



        Siobhan





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      • Knott
        ... I would think it even more beneficial to treat it with a certain wonder. If you admit ignorance to the conclusion and devise enough what- ifs, you can
        Message 3 of 3 , May 3, 2005
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          > Probably the best way for humans to deal with death is to not
          > think about it at all.

          I would think it even more beneficial to treat it with a certain
          wonder. If you admit ignorance to the conclusion and devise enough what-
          ifs, you can quite bury at least temporary concern. The difficulty of
          imagining one not existing is as good a proof as some render for most
          things: why you, why now, where were you before, if there were no you,
          would there be anything (like a tree falling in the forest, but a
          larger scale)? Perhaps a slight self-centered...but also a benefit of
          having no proof that the illusion of 'world' exists.

          There is observation, and misunderstanding. An interesting perspective
          is that what we observe is, again, wrong or misunderstood...as is what
          we have been told and assume. Thoughts need not be feared so long as
          they are not ill-considered.

          Schlocking Manure
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