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Re: The NOLS(ter) & The CRUZ(er)... . /:-)

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  • Trinidad Cruz
    Frank, You have excised the point. There is a phenomena among amputees commonly referred to as the ghost limb syndrome . The human reaction to the postulation
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 30 12:18 PM
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      Frank,

      You have excised the point. There is a phenomena among amputees
      commonly referred to as "the ghost limb syndrome". The human reaction
      to the postulation that existence is finite or ending often exhibits
      characteristics like this syndrome, and is essentially the same kind
      of fundamental denial at the root of belief-systems.Consider that
      existence is never time framed as "present" for whatever or whoever is
      aware. There is a distance between the encountering of existence and
      the actual awareness or recollection of it. One can only be aware of
      existence in the past.That distance can only be something that is so
      dissimilar to existence as to contain nothing of existence (within the
      boundaries of human empirical capacity) otherwise it would be no
      barrier to direct assimilation into what exists. If we are aware as a
      species, existence has produced its end within the boundaries of the
      empirical capacity of our species.This distance is intrinsicly
      enfolded or somehow intruded as a barrier within whatever or whoever
      is aware of existence or they could not be aware of existence.

      As existentialists we may at this point even propose a deterministic
      factor. If existence has ended within the paradigm of human empirical
      capacity (which it has or we could not have empirical capacities aware
      of existence)then the determinist principle of existence is the random
      but inevitable exhaustion of possiblities with specific cosmological
      paradigms of awareness.

      Philosophical humans effected by a kind of ghost existence syndrome
      tend to forget the probable vastness of the cosmos and probable
      ocurrences of unique paradigms of empirical capacities.Human empirical
      capacity is arguably largely terrestial still we have yet to
      substantially test the validity of those limitations in other cosmic
      situations. The thing to remember is our particular experience with
      existence and the end of existence occurs within the paradigm of our
      species-wide norm of empirical capacity. Who's to say the species will
      not develop new empirical capacities once these are exhausted of
      possibility? Who's to say it is not happening now?

      My view as an existentialist: invest in scientific endeavor aimed at
      eliminating all sexually transmitted diseases, and invest in a serious
      substantial and permanent space program. We are anchoring and killing
      off our species out of embarassment and fear.

      Finally, I do not think that religious thought is natural to the
      species and our empirical paradigm. People get lost in the crap
      because it is pervasive (although I suspect a more correct word would
      be invasive). I think it is an introduced error in thinking.I cannot
      say what or who introduced it, other than to say, whatever it was, it
      was not in possession of the same empirical capacity as our species.

      Trinidad

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, NEFILIM001@a... wrote:
      > "...Siobhan,
      >
      > This confirms the odour that I was smelling in the first post. How
      > arrogant to really believe you are more highly evolved than another
      > human being!! This is why evolution is fact is bullshite. It DOES
      > have VALUE JUDGEMENTS.............. ."
      >
      > - - - - - - - - Con't)... ^|<
      >
      > > "...Trinidad,
      > >
      > > Thank you always for your efforts to move existentialism forward
      > and
      > > into a deeper appreciation for the genius of Sartre. As I said
      > before,
      > > with little or no traditional science, he managed to grasp a
      > scientific
      > > fact. We exist, we are; but within us and our cosmos is non-
      > existence............ ."
      >
      > Like, What's Wit' This...anyhow?!
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bob Keyes
      Couple Brief Comments.... ... From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Trinidad Cruz Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 3:18
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 30 1:02 PM
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        Couple Brief Comments....

        -----Original Message-----
        From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com]On
        Behalf Of Trinidad Cruz
        Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 3:18 PM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [existlist] Re: The NOLS(ter) & The CRUZ(er)... . /:-)


        Frank,

        You have excised the point. There is a phenomena among amputees
        commonly referred to as "the ghost limb syndrome". The human reaction
        to the postulation that existence is finite or ending often exhibits
        characteristics like this syndrome, and is essentially the same kind
        of fundamental denial at the root of belief-systems.Consider that
        existence is never time framed as "present" for whatever or whoever is
        aware. There is a distance between the encountering of existence and
        the actual awareness or recollection of it. One can only be aware of
        existence in the past.That distance can only be something that is so
        dissimilar to existence as to contain nothing of existence (within the
        boundaries of human empirical capacity) otherwise it would be no
        barrier to direct assimilation into what exists. If we are aware as a
        species, existence has produced its end within the boundaries of the
        empirical capacity of our species.This distance is intrinsicly
        enfolded or somehow intruded as a barrier within whatever or whoever
        is aware of existence or they could not be aware of existence.

        As existentialists we may at this point even propose a deterministic
        factor. If existence has ended within the paradigm of human empirical
        capacity (which it has or we could not have empirical capacities aware
        of existence)then the determinist principle of existence is the random
        but inevitable exhaustion of possiblities with specific cosmological
        paradigms of awareness.

        Philosophical humans effected by a kind of ghost existence syndrome
        tend to forget the probable vastness of the cosmos and probable
        ocurrences of unique paradigms of empirical capacities.Human empirical
        capacity is arguably largely terrestial still we have yet to
        substantially test the validity of those limitations in other cosmic
        situations. The thing to remember is our particular experience with
        existence and the end of existence occurs within the paradigm of our
        species-wide norm of empirical capacity. Who's to say the species will
        not develop new empirical capacities once these are exhausted of
        possibility? Who's to say it is not happening now?


        [Bob Keyes] It probably is Happening Now, I think we will find artificial
        means (Human Brains Interfaced with a computer say which would expand our
        Memory Capabilities) may come way sooner than Natural Change and be another
        Huge Leap for Humans bring New Cognative Tools to analyze with....






        My view as an existentialist: invest in scientific endeavor aimed at
        eliminating all sexually transmitted diseases, and invest in a serious
        substantial and permanent space program. We are anchoring and killing
        off our species out of embarassment and fear.

        Finally, I do not think that religious thought is natural to the
        species and our empirical paradigm. People get lost in the crap
        because it is pervasive (although I suspect a more correct word would
        be invasive).

        [Bob Keyes] I don't think that Religious thought is Natural Either,
        However what about Non-Logical Thinking Producing
        say a Positive Feeling of Truth in ones brain. I think this exists and
        can be explained. Take Human History in its context say going back 3 million
        Years, Would the trait of Accepting Non-logic be advantageous.(By Accepting
        I do not mean it is a choice, a switch in your brain says true or False,
        example- in my brain if I recognize a logical problem, the though gets
        disregarded whether I want it to or not) I can think of many cases where it
        could be.
        The bottom line is this, Humans had to have a way to make decisions with
        incomplete information on any given problem. Rather than languish in
        indecisiveness the species has a short circuit to think virtually anything
        it wants.
        (God will Save me if I run up the hill and kill the tribe over there-
        humans with this brain type would be highly regarded back then)
        I think this is an evolved brain characteristic. (And most humans have it
        to varying degrees).
        Non- Logical Human do exist (and it is I think a Hardware issue)...just as
        Logical Humans do exist ( and it is a hardware issue)
        From these Brain Types all kinds of thinking can be explained, But Each
        only Makes sense in its own Brain !





        I think it is an introduced error in thinking.

        [Bob Keyes] I think without Question it adds Error, After all without
        Evidence it is a Guess. Who is good at guessing.



        I cannot
        say what or who introduced it, other than to say, whatever it was, it
        was not in possession of the same empirical capacity as our species.






        Trinidad

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, NEFILIM001@a... wrote:
        > "...Siobhan,
        >
        > This confirms the odour that I was smelling in the first post. How
        > arrogant to really believe you are more highly evolved than another
        > human being!! This is why evolution is fact is bullshite. It DOES
        > have VALUE JUDGEMENTS.............. ."
        >
        > - - - - - - - - Con't)... ^|<
        >
        > > "...Trinidad,
        > >
        > > Thank you always for your efforts to move existentialism forward
        > and
        > > into a deeper appreciation for the genius of Sartre. As I said
        > before,
        > > with little or no traditional science, he managed to grasp a
        > scientific
        > > fact. We exist, we are; but within us and our cosmos is non-
        > existence............ ."
        >
        > Like, What's Wit' This...anyhow?!
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

        Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist




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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Trinidad Cruz
        ... [Bob Keyes] It probably is Happening Now, I think we will find artificial means (Human Brains Interfaced with a computer say which would expand our Memory
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 30 1:32 PM
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          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Keyes" <rlk@w...> wrote:

          "[Bob Keyes] It probably is Happening Now, I think we will find
          artificial means (Human Brains Interfaced with a computer say which
          would expand our Memory Capabilities) may come way sooner than Natural
          Change and be another Huge Leap for Humans bring New Cognative Tools
          to analyze with...."

          Perhaps. I am familiar with the transhumanist view and arguably more
          memory would be advantageous, but then I am forced to wonder why we
          already devote so little of our brain to memory. I suggest that
          increasing the memory capacity of a specific machine without
          increasing the fundamental processor speed, or altering the operative
          paradigm of the system would only slow the system down. I think the
          issue may be deeper than speed or capacity. We do not use what we
          have, and seem to be predisposed to that condition. It smacks of a
          system paradigm or relative problem, which points directly then at
          genetic issues. Perhaps, and this is just speculation, the genetic
          issue is one that is simply not discoverable by human empirical
          capacity. In other words introduced into the species by another
          species with different empirical capacities, and until our species
          produces an actual hy-brid, so to speak, no one can be aware of the
          additional genetic information because it cannot be detected by normal
          human empirical capacities.Something at a systemic or system-wide
          pathological level causes us to lose access to our brains full
          capacity.This is an issue we need to address as a thinking species.

          tc
        • Bob Keyes
          ... From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Trinidad Cruz Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 4:33 PM To:
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 30 1:52 PM
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            -----Original Message-----
            From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com]On
            Behalf Of Trinidad Cruz
            Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 4:33 PM
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [existlist] Re: The NOLS(ter) & The CRUZ(er)... . /:-)


            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Keyes" <rlk@w...> wrote:

            "[Bob Keyes] It probably is Happening Now, I think we will find
            artificial means (Human Brains Interfaced with a computer say which
            would expand our Memory Capabilities) may come way sooner than Natural
            Change and be another Huge Leap for Humans bring New Cognative Tools
            to analyze with...."

            Perhaps. I am familiar with the transhumanist view and arguably more
            memory would be advantageous, but then I am forced to wonder why we
            already devote so little of our brain to memory.


            [Bob Keyes] What we are lacking is Registers for short term memory and
            Registers (so to speak).
            We can only remember about 7-9 things at a time due to this limitation.
            (Try to remember a serious of Digits
            without grouping tricks to get around this limitation.) Long Term memory
            is an issue as well since the more
            you try to Learn the More you in have to forget to make room (so it
            seems)...



            I suggest that
            increasing the memory capacity of a specific machine without
            increasing the fundamental processor speed, or altering the operative
            paradigm of the system would only slow the system down. I think the
            issue may be deeper than speed or capacity.

            [Bob Keyes] I am certain that it is deeper also.....


            We do not use what we
            have, and seem to be predisposed to that condition. It smacks of a
            system paradigm or relative problem, which points directly then at
            genetic issues. Perhaps, and this is just speculation, the genetic
            issue is one that is simply not discoverable by human empirical
            capacity. In other words introduced into the species by another
            species with different empirical capacities, and until our species
            produces an actual hy-brid, so to speak, no one can be aware of the
            additional genetic information because it cannot be detected by normal
            human empirical capacities.Something at a systemic or system-wide
            pathological level causes us to lose access to our brains full
            capacity.This is an issue we need to address as a thinking species.

            tc





            Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

            Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist




            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            --

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/

            b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Siobhan
            I can t think of anything more ludicrous for a philosophical thinker than to deny that s(he) has emperical capacity. The only thing possibly more ridiculous
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 30 10:17 PM
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              I can't think of anything more ludicrous for a philosophical thinker
              than to deny that s(he) has emperical capacity. The only thing
              possibly more ridiculous would be to credit this capacity to
              something or someone non-human. And the only thing even more
              incredible would be if it were true, because there is no predicting
              how emperical capacity will evolve. The human individual who doesn't
              respect such capacity is vulnerable to annihilation, as is the
              species. Emperical capacity and free will are useful tools. They've
              taken a very very long time to appear, and who knows what lies ahead?
              I only know that not using what we now have to optimize our existence
              is foolish.

              Siobhan

              Trinidad Cruz wrote:

              Frank,

              You have excised the point. There is a phenomena among amputees
              commonly referred to as "the ghost limb syndrome". The human reaction
              to the postulation that existence is finite or ending often exhibits
              characteristics like this syndrome, and is essentially the same kind
              of fundamental denial at the root of belief-systems.Consider that
              existence is never time framed as "present" for whatever or whoever is
              aware. There is a distance between the encountering of existence and
              the actual awareness or recollection of it. One can only be aware of
              existence in the past.That distance can only be something that is so
              dissimilar to existence as to contain nothing of existence (within the
              boundaries of human empirical capacity) otherwise it would be no
              barrier to direct assimilation into what exists. If we are aware as a
              species, existence has produced its end within the boundaries of the
              empirical capacity of our species.This distance is intrinsicly
              enfolded or somehow intruded as a barrier within whatever or whoever
              is aware of existence or they could not be aware of existence.

              As existentialists we may at this point even propose a deterministic
              factor. If existence has ended within the paradigm of human empirical
              capacity (which it has or we could not have empirical capacities aware
              of existence)then the determinist principle of existence is the random
              but inevitable exhaustion of possiblities with specific cosmological
              paradigms of awareness.

              Philosophical humans effected by a kind of ghost existence syndrome
              tend to forget the probable vastness of the cosmos and probable
              ocurrences of unique paradigms of empirical capacities.Human empirical
              capacity is arguably largely terrestial still we have yet to
              substantially test the validity of those limitations in other cosmic
              situations. The thing to remember is our particular experience with
              existence and the end of existence occurs within the paradigm of our
              species-wide norm of empirical capacity. Who's to say the species will
              not develop new empirical capacities once these are exhausted of
              possibility? Who's to say it is not happening now?

              My view as an existentialist: invest in scientific endeavor aimed at
              eliminating all sexually transmitted diseases, and invest in a serious
              substantial and permanent space program. We are anchoring and killing
              off our species out of embarassment and fear.

              Finally, I do not think that religious thought is natural to the
              species and our empirical paradigm. People get lost in the crap
              because it is pervasive (although I suspect a more correct word would
              be invasive). I think it is an introduced error in thinking.I cannot
              say what or who introduced it, other than to say, whatever it was, it
              was not in possession of the same empirical capacity as our species.

              Trinidad
            • Bob Keyes
              I agree with this 100 percent.. Bob.. (just feel like giving my opinion on peoples statements tonight since I am to lazy to write one of my own) . ... From:
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 30 10:19 PM
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                I agree with this 100 percent..
                Bob.. (just feel like giving my opinion on peoples statements tonight since
                I am to lazy to write one of my own) .
                -----Original Message-----
                From: existlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:existlist@yahoogroups.com]On
                Behalf Of Siobhan
                Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 1:17 AM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [existlist] Exhausting Possibilities


                I can't think of anything more ludicrous for a philosophical thinker
                than to deny that s(he) has emperical capacity. The only thing
                possibly more ridiculous would be to credit this capacity to
                something or someone non-human. And the only thing even more
                incredible would be if it were true, because there is no predicting
                how emperical capacity will evolve. The human individual who doesn't
                respect such capacity is vulnerable to annihilation, as is the
                species. Emperical capacity and free will are useful tools. They've
                taken a very very long time to appear, and who knows what lies ahead?
                I only know that not using what we now have to optimize our existence
                is foolish.

                Siobhan

                Trinidad Cruz wrote:

                Frank,

                You have excised the point. There is a phenomena among amputees
                commonly referred to as "the ghost limb syndrome". The human reaction
                to the postulation that existence is finite or ending often exhibits
                characteristics like this syndrome, and is essentially the same kind
                of fundamental denial at the root of belief-systems.Consider that
                existence is never time framed as "present" for whatever or whoever is
                aware. There is a distance between the encountering of existence and
                the actual awareness or recollection of it. One can only be aware of
                existence in the past.That distance can only be something that is so
                dissimilar to existence as to contain nothing of existence (within the
                boundaries of human empirical capacity) otherwise it would be no
                barrier to direct assimilation into what exists. If we are aware as a
                species, existence has produced its end within the boundaries of the
                empirical capacity of our species.This distance is intrinsicly
                enfolded or somehow intruded as a barrier within whatever or whoever
                is aware of existence or they could not be aware of existence.

                As existentialists we may at this point even propose a deterministic
                factor. If existence has ended within the paradigm of human empirical
                capacity (which it has or we could not have empirical capacities aware
                of existence)then the determinist principle of existence is the random
                but inevitable exhaustion of possiblities with specific cosmological
                paradigms of awareness.

                Philosophical humans effected by a kind of ghost existence syndrome
                tend to forget the probable vastness of the cosmos and probable
                ocurrences of unique paradigms of empirical capacities.Human empirical
                capacity is arguably largely terrestial still we have yet to
                substantially test the validity of those limitations in other cosmic
                situations. The thing to remember is our particular experience with
                existence and the end of existence occurs within the paradigm of our
                species-wide norm of empirical capacity. Who's to say the species will
                not develop new empirical capacities once these are exhausted of
                possibility? Who's to say it is not happening now?

                My view as an existentialist: invest in scientific endeavor aimed at
                eliminating all sexually transmitted diseases, and invest in a serious
                substantial and permanent space program. We are anchoring and killing
                off our species out of embarassment and fear.

                Finally, I do not think that religious thought is natural to the
                species and our empirical paradigm. People get lost in the crap
                because it is pervasive (although I suspect a more correct word would
                be invasive). I think it is an introduced error in thinking.I cannot
                say what or who introduced it, other than to say, whatever it was, it
                was not in possession of the same empirical capacity as our species.

                Trinidad








                Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist



                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                --
                Yahoo! Groups Links

                a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/

                b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Knott
                ... Claiming something is ludicrous is not proof. Findyour Gunzmann
                Message 7 of 8 , May 1, 2005
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                  > I can't think of anything more ludicrous for a philosophical thinker
                  > than to deny that s(he) has emperical capacity.

                  Claiming something is ludicrous is not proof.

                  Findyour Gunzmann
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