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catholic censorship (cathar communion)

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  • Siobhan
    Bill, At the risk of being called a Smarty Pants or Vulgar or an Upstart, I ll share a little bit about that controversial and mysterious group called the
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 25, 2005
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      Bill,

      At the risk of being called a Smarty Pants or Vulgar or an Upstart,
      I'll share a little bit about that controversial and mysterious group
      called the Cathars. They had some alternative sacraments, one of
      which they were accused, namely using 'hot tuna' as their communion.
      Instead of bread & wine: their heresy was using human bodily fluids
      (sperm & menstrum) as their eucharist. They were alternately accused
      of practicing birth control or being too purist in their christian
      faith, and especially heinous was the seasoning of aborted fetuses
      with pepper for consumption. However, it's been speculated they had
      some secret treasure that the church coveted. If I recall correctly,
      this all happened in 13th century Albigensia, France and was the
      occasion when Simon de Montfort is credited with saying 'Kill them
      all. Let god sort them out.'

      Oh well, either I'm initiated here or I really need a new Yahoo ID.

      Siobhan
    • louise
      Siobhan, I sincerely hope that the risk of being called a Smarty Pants or Vulgar or an Upstart is not a risk you run at existlist. Still, how far can hopes
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 26, 2005
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        Siobhan,
        I sincerely hope that "the risk of being called a Smarty Pants or
        Vulgar or an Upstart" is not a risk you run at existlist. Still, how
        far can hopes be relied on?? Even though I find the given details [re
        the Cathars] disgusting, I disagree with Ford (was it?) that history
        is bunk. It needs to be sifted and studied and debated, not only for
        its own pleasure, but for the elucidation of our own living now. As
        for Richard Dawkins, as I've stated before at this list, I am not
        qualified to express an opinion about the science, but find his
        arguments about theology and religion inadequate, usually because
        based on false, and popular, premises. Explaining science to the
        public is part of his entire public role. One should always bear this
        in mind, I think. There again, he is British. Compared to USA, we
        are atheistic; and yet we are spiritual seekers also. We seek in ways
        that may baffle and mislead the foreigner. I should know. I have
        been like a stranger in my own land. At times.
        Louise
      • Siobhan
        Louise, Thank you for not lambasting my attempt to show the ridiculous extremes (Cathars, right-to- life ) the religious often attempt. Regarding Dawkins,
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 26, 2005
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          Louise,

          Thank you for not lambasting my attempt to show the ridiculous
          extremes (Cathars, right-to-'life') the religious often attempt.

          Regarding Dawkins, you've made a misrepresentation of the status of
          theism and atheism in Britain. Yours is even less an atheist nation
          than France who usually claims that title in Europe. Since he resides
          in your country, most of his secular/atheist advocacy takes place
          there. He is science's front man against all kinds of religious
          animosity, including liberal agnosticism. You personally may not
          embrace the popular false religious premises, but there is plenty of
          information that your country is likewise swept up in the worldwide
          phenomenon of religious 'thinking'. For me 'spiritual' means
          religious. It appears he's worried about the very future of
          scientific endeavor.

          Siobhan

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Siobhan,
          > I sincerely hope that "the risk of being called a Smarty Pants or
          > Vulgar or an Upstart" is not a risk you run at existlist. Still,
          how
          > far can hopes be relied on?? Even though I find the given details
          [re
          > the Cathars] disgusting, I disagree with Ford (was it?) that
          history
          > is bunk. It needs to be sifted and studied and debated, not only
          for
          > its own pleasure, but for the elucidation of our own living now.
          As
          > for Richard Dawkins, as I've stated before at this list, I am not
          > qualified to express an opinion about the science, but find his
          > arguments about theology and religion inadequate, usually because
          > based on false, and popular, premises. Explaining science to the
          > public is part of his entire public role. One should always bear
          this
          > in mind, I think. There again, he is British. Compared to USA, we
          > are atheistic; and yet we are spiritual seekers also. We seek in
          ways
          > that may baffle and mislead the foreigner. I should know. I have
          > been like a stranger in my own land. At times.
          > Louise
        • louise
          Siobhan, I don t know how extensively you audited the list before contributing, but if I m famed for anything here, it would be for not believing the French,
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 26, 2005
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            Siobhan,

            I don't know how extensively you 'audited' the list before
            contributing, but if I'm famed for anything here, it would be for
            not believing the French, or at least using great pinches of salt as
            appropriate. My 'God is French' thingy, although hugely respectful
            to their intellectual traditions and gallantry, not to mention that
            elegant language, also contains ... or conceals ... a very British
            irony. When I was attending Baptist and other Reformed services,
            most weeks, for several years, I encountered a number of
            missionaries. Two of these laboured for years trying, largely in
            vain, to convert French people to Protestant evangelical thinking.
            The most responsive people, in the appartment blocks, for instance
            (a Southern French city, I think), were African immigrants,
            hospitable, though equally unconvinced as their European or Arab
            neighbours, by the unpictorial carefully reflective speech-based
            ministry of Northern European dissent. It may be that the French
            are atheists, but they are Catholic atheists. That confers
            particular froms of resistiveness. I have listened to Richard
            Dawkins on several occasions, and don't get any sense at all that he
            knows what religion is and what it does. To be sure, it's difficult
            to explain, especially in the teeth of vitriolic irrational
            criticism, of which we have experienced much here at this list.
            Yes, I hate and despise certain religious phenomena, but there are
            similar phenomena to be witnessed in atheistic systems. This is all
            familiar ground for existlist, frequently covered in the year of my
            own membership, with much more in the archive. I do, though, also
            hate the casualness with which abortion is entered into. That is a
            social phenomenon, for it is not so usual at all for an individual
            woman to be casual about 'termination'. The chilling vocabulary in
            use is very similar to the jargon about war - the 'collateral
            damage' and all that. I am a poet. Fishes and foetuses, they are
            real to me. I cannot listen too much [to their distress], any more
            than I can politically campaign. If we are to argue, it needs to be
            rigorous. What exactly justifies juxtaposing Cathar heresy with
            21st century anti-abortion propaganda? I'm looking for detail, 'cos
            I like to be friends with both god and the devil.

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Siobhan" <bravegnoobee@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Louise,
            >
            > Thank you for not lambasting my attempt to show the ridiculous
            > extremes (Cathars, right-to-'life') the religious often attempt.
            >
            > Regarding Dawkins, you've made a misrepresentation of the status
            of
            > theism and atheism in Britain. Yours is even less an atheist
            nation
            > than France who usually claims that title in Europe. Since he
            resides
            > in your country, most of his secular/atheist advocacy takes place
            > there. He is science's front man against all kinds of religious
            > animosity, including liberal agnosticism. You personally may not
            > embrace the popular false religious premises, but there is plenty
            of
            > information that your country is likewise swept up in the
            worldwide
            > phenomenon of religious 'thinking'. For me 'spiritual' means
            > religious. It appears he's worried about the very future of
            > scientific endeavor.
            >
            > Siobhan
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > Siobhan,
            > > I sincerely hope that "the risk of being called a Smarty Pants
            or
            > > Vulgar or an Upstart" is not a risk you run at existlist.
            Still,
            > how
            > > far can hopes be relied on?? Even though I find the given
            details
            > [re
            > > the Cathars] disgusting, I disagree with Ford (was it?) that
            > history
            > > is bunk. It needs to be sifted and studied and debated, not
            only
            > for
            > > its own pleasure, but for the elucidation of our own living
            now.
            > As
            > > for Richard Dawkins, as I've stated before at this list, I am
            not
            > > qualified to express an opinion about the science, but find his
            > > arguments about theology and religion inadequate, usually
            because
            > > based on false, and popular, premises. Explaining science to
            the
            > > public is part of his entire public role. One should always
            bear
            > this
            > > in mind, I think. There again, he is British. Compared to USA,
            we
            > > are atheistic; and yet we are spiritual seekers also. We seek
            in
            > ways
            > > that may baffle and mislead the foreigner. I should know. I
            have
            > > been like a stranger in my own land. At times.
            > > Louise
          • bhvwd
            ... group ... communion. ... accused ... correctly, ... but we are some time older. Time compression is much different than identity theft. In this time we
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 9, 2008
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Siobhan" <bravegnoobee@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Bill,
              >
              > At the risk of being called a Smarty Pants or Vulgar or an Upstart,
              > I'll share a little bit about that controversial and mysterious
              group
              > called the Cathars. They had some alternative sacraments, one of
              > which they were accused, namely using 'hot tuna' as their
              communion.
              > Instead of bread & wine: their heresy was using human bodily fluids
              > (sperm & menstrum) as their eucharist. They were alternately
              accused
              > of practicing birth control or being too purist in their christian
              > faith, and especially heinous was the seasoning of aborted fetuses
              > with pepper for consumption. However, it's been speculated they had
              > some secret treasure that the church coveted. If I recall
              correctly,
              > this all happened in 13th century Albigensia, France and was the
              > occasion when Simon de Montfort is credited with saying 'Kill them
              > all. Let god sort them out.'
              >
              > Oh well, either I'm initiated here or I really need a new Yahoo ID.
              >
              > Siobhan
              >Siobahn, This is a sort of time travel, I think I know who you are
              but we are some time older. Time compression is much different than
              identity theft. In this time we cannot speak of the things of which
              you speak ,we have banned witchcraft and are carrying on as if
              menstruation is a crime.Bill
            • mary.jo11
              I wonder if that s where the profane expletive, christ on a cracker, originated. Either that or twas an upgrade for transubstantiation :) Oh well, if we re to
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 10, 2008
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                I wonder if that's where the profane expletive, christ on a cracker,
                originated. Either that or twas an upgrade for transubstantiation :)

                Oh well, if we're to be deleted, been nice knowing you all...

                Mary
              • bhvwd
                ... could fault the poor ,frozen creature. How can a card carrying liberal sell global warming with wind chills of -40f.She does not seem the sort to sell
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 10, 2008
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                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <ophiuchus@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I wonder if that's where the profane expletive, christ on a cracker,
                  > originated. Either that or twas an upgrade for transubstantiation :)
                  >
                  > Oh well, if we're to be deleted, been nice knowing you all...
                  >
                  > Mary
                  >It has to be real bad in Minneapolis. If Susan needs to delete us who
                  could fault the poor ,frozen creature. How can a card carrying liberal
                  sell global warming with wind chills of -40f.She does not seem the
                  sort to sell popsicles to Inuit.Come on Susan, pretend the world is
                  flat and we will pretend your acedemic credentials ward off the
                  cold.Are you double dipping if you take the writers % from Yahoo? I
                  will hold out for microsoft and the big bucks. On my site I have never
                  censored anyone but that could prove your point. We are just out of
                  control but you are colder and the hypothermic brain may be unable to
                  diagnose itself.
                  I have an idea,Susan will write some e4xistentialism, just the way she
                  likes it and I will post it ,word for word and sign it.If what she
                  writes is obscene I will then post it on Neoex and then ban it. Then I
                  will have walked a mile in her minnetonka`s. I will not ask her to
                  wear them again, embarassing toe fungus you know. As to cathar
                  communion I do not mess with long established mania but Mary holds
                  forth on things that really push beyond what I find advisable to
                  ponder.When all the cops are criminals and all the demons saints we all
                  may maltriculate at the U of Minn to finish our doctorate in blandness.
                  We wait for wisdom from the great white north. Bill
                • Susan Schnelbach
                  ?? Yeah, it s a tad bit cold here, but I m not frozen yet. I m not sure where you got the idea I m an academic. I work for a living. I m also not a
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 11, 2008
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                    ??

                    Yeah, it's a tad bit cold here, but I'm not frozen yet.

                    I'm not sure where you got the idea I'm an academic. I work for a
                    living. I'm also not a card-carrying liberal selling global warming,
                    so I'll assume your post was meant to be sarcastic.

                    I also have no interest in posting existential discussion topics to
                    the group. When I have free time to read, I read for entertainment,
                    not philosophy. I'm only here to be sure you all are playing nice
                    with each other and staying somewhat on topic. :) So, that being the
                    case, let's try to be more coherent and on topic. As you may have
                    noticed, we rarely kick anyone off the group unless they get really
                    out of hand and we have never deleted posts. If something posted
                    never showed up, that's more likely to be Yahoo's error or user error.

                    Play nice, Bill, and I hope you are doing well.

                    - Susan


                    On Feb 10, 2008, at 1:23 PM, bhvwd wrote:

                    > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <ophiuchus@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I wonder if that's where the profane expletive, christ on a cracker,
                    > > originated. Either that or twas an upgrade for transubstantiation :)
                    > >
                    > > Oh well, if we're to be deleted, been nice knowing you all...
                    > >
                    > > Mary
                    > >It has to be real bad in Minneapolis. If Susan needs to delete us who
                    > could fault the poor ,frozen creature. How can a card carrying liberal
                    > sell global warming with wind chills of -40f.She does not seem the
                    > sort to sell popsicles to Inuit.Come on Susan, pretend the world is
                    > flat and we will pretend your acedemic credentials ward off the
                    > cold.Are you double dipping if you take the writers % from Yahoo? I
                    > will hold out for microsoft and the big bucks. On my site I have never
                    > censored anyone but that could prove your point. We are just out of
                    > control but you are colder and the hypothermic brain may be unable to
                    > diagnose itself.
                    > I have an idea,Susan will write some e4xistentialism, just the way she
                    > likes it and I will post it ,word for word and sign it.If what she
                    > writes is obscene I will then post it on Neoex and then ban it. Then I
                    > will have walked a mile in her minnetonka`s. I will not ask her to
                    > wear them again, embarassing toe fungus you know. As to cathar
                    > communion I do not mess with long established mania but Mary holds
                    > forth on things that really push beyond what I find advisable to
                    > ponder.When all the cops are criminals and all the demons saints we
                    > all
                    > may maltriculate at the U of Minn to finish our doctorate in
                    > blandness.
                    > We wait for wisdom from the great white north. Bill
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • bhvwd
                    ... warming, ... to ... entertainment, ... the ... really ... error. ... cracker, ... transubstantiation :) ... us who ... liberal ... is ... I ... never ...
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 11, 2008
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                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Susan Schnelbach <susan@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > ??
                      >
                      > Yeah, it's a tad bit cold here, but I'm not frozen yet.
                      >
                      > I'm not sure where you got the idea I'm an academic. I work for a
                      > living. I'm also not a card-carrying liberal selling global
                      warming,
                      > so I'll assume your post was meant to be sarcastic.
                      >
                      > I also have no interest in posting existential discussion topics
                      to
                      > the group. When I have free time to read, I read for
                      entertainment,
                      > not philosophy. I'm only here to be sure you all are playing nice
                      > with each other and staying somewhat on topic. :) So, that being
                      the
                      > case, let's try to be more coherent and on topic. As you may have
                      > noticed, we rarely kick anyone off the group unless they get
                      really
                      > out of hand and we have never deleted posts. If something posted
                      > never showed up, that's more likely to be Yahoo's error or user
                      error.
                      >
                      > Play nice, Bill, and I hope you are doing well.
                      >
                      > - Susan
                      > Susan, For a slimey street kid, I`M DOING THE BEST i CAN.bILL.
                      >
                      > On Feb 10, 2008, at 1:23 PM, bhvwd wrote:
                      >
                      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "mary.jo11" <ophiuchus@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I wonder if that's where the profane expletive, christ on a
                      cracker,
                      > > > originated. Either that or twas an upgrade for
                      transubstantiation :)
                      > > >
                      > > > Oh well, if we're to be deleted, been nice knowing you all...
                      > > >
                      > > > Mary
                      > > >It has to be real bad in Minneapolis. If Susan needs to delete
                      us who
                      > > could fault the poor ,frozen creature. How can a card carrying
                      liberal
                      > > sell global warming with wind chills of -40f.She does not seem the
                      > > sort to sell popsicles to Inuit.Come on Susan, pretend the world
                      is
                      > > flat and we will pretend your acedemic credentials ward off the
                      > > cold.Are you double dipping if you take the writers % from Yahoo?
                      I
                      > > will hold out for microsoft and the big bucks. On my site I have
                      never
                      > > censored anyone but that could prove your point. We are just out
                      of
                      > > control but you are colder and the hypothermic brain may be
                      unable to
                      > > diagnose itself.
                      > > I have an idea,Susan will write some e4xistentialism, just the
                      way she
                      > > likes it and I will post it ,word for word and sign it.If what she
                      > > writes is obscene I will then post it on Neoex and then ban it.
                      Then I
                      > > will have walked a mile in her minnetonka`s. I will not ask her to
                      > > wear them again, embarassing toe fungus you know. As to cathar
                      > > communion I do not mess with long established mania but Mary holds
                      > > forth on things that really push beyond what I find advisable to
                      > > ponder.When all the cops are criminals and all the demons saints
                      we
                      > > all
                      > > may maltriculate at the U of Minn to finish our doctorate in
                      > > blandness.
                      > > We wait for wisdom from the great white north. Bill
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
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